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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 05/06/11
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Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light?
    #657766 - 02/06/13 12:04 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

First off, I am a retired engineer who worked with Woz and Jobs up in Silicon Valley back in the day. I have designed/built/repaired mainframe and PC computers, peripherals, satellite transceivers, medical AD/DA converters, routers and so on.

I no longer have any contacts nor a workshop (just ordinary hand & power tools), but I am just now finishing my fourth LED design that easily bests anything out there commercially. I have piles of commercial LED junk in the corner.

I am going to attempt to get some PAR, lumen and PPFD readings in the next month or so. I don't want to sound like another marketer blowing smoke.

My current design is for a 150w unit, but can easily be expanded/modified.

While lumens are a poor metric for plants, often it is all we are given.

How does my lamp stack up in lumens per watt of input electricity:

CFL: 45-65 LPW
T5: 80-90 LPW
MH: 90-115 LPW
HPS: 110-150 LPW
LEDs: 10 to 60 LPW
OC's LED: 112 LPW

So if these numbers are correct, why would you choose mine over HID?

1. Longevity. Drivers aer good for 70,000 hours; emitters for 60,000 hours.

2. Light weight. All aluminum open-air frame.

3. Passive cooling. No fans to add heat or burn out.

4. Multiple wide angle light sources. This gives better coverage than small laser-like narrow angle LEDS or a single bulb HID.

5. HIDs measure the total lumen output going in all directions. LEDs are directional so no bulky reflector is needed along with the resultant light loss.

6. Superior spectrum. The LEDs I chose closely follow the plant absorption curve without using many different monochrome LEDs.


I will upload some pics very soon, but here is my question:

As it takes a long time to bring a product to market, what would it be worth to you to pay for plans for such a light if you believe my  pitch?

If there was enough interest, I would pay a professional draftsman to come up with the drawings. Also there would be a full parts list along with a troubleshooting guide and full assembly instructions.

There is only one caveat: this lamp is not cheap even if you DIY. Only top quality components are used and some so new in design that they have just now come on the market.

Let me know your thoughts. This is a serious piece of kit and not just another homebrew as you will see.


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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #657776 - 02/06/13 03:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Note to mods: if this fits better in Grow Room Design, then feel free to move.


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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #657777 - 02/06/13 03:30 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Here she is.




With one cool and one warm turned one. Totally blinding!



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Invisiblemhbound
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #657804 - 02/06/13 12:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

What wattage are the LED's


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: mhbound]
    #657822 - 02/06/13 03:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

And what angle are they being reflected at.


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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: mhbound]
    #657835 - 02/06/13 06:18 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mhbound said:
What wattage are the LED's




They are 50 watters being driven at 30 watts and can safely be driven up to 40 watts with zero heat issues.

The frame and heatsinks can also handle 60 watt LEDs driven at about 45 watts.

Mine will be running at 150 watt total due to space and heating constraints.

Note that the unit is about 3" in height and about 16" * 18" so is perfect for cramped spaces.

If I do plans, they will be easily alterable to make a 4, 5, 6, 8, 9. 10 & 12 unit model in square, linear or rectangular shape.


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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #657836 - 02/06/13 06:26 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
And what angle are they being reflected at.




These are 115 degrees. Even with this wide angle they are impossible to look at directly without eye protection. The idea of narrow angle LEDs having better 'penetration' is flawed'. What that gives you is light bleaching and 'spotlighting' of red and blues, not an even color mix.

With these five all lit and with reflective walls, there are basically no shadows, even on the lowest branches, and the plants can grow within inches with no heat or light damage.

I did 3 grows with the predecessor lamp I designed and this one has 40% greater flux density. As I was averaging 0.85 GPW in poor growing conditions these should be able to get 1.2 GPW - even for an average grower.


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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #657837 - 02/06/13 06:29 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The E26 sockets with the CFLs are there in case a grower wants to add a UV CFL or far red light during mid/late flower.

Of course, more visible light can be added at any time using them, but is not necessary.


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OfflineXXXX
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #657840 - 02/06/13 07:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I would like to know how to wire up a grow light using a computer power supply as they are so prevalent.  I don't know if they would be suitable but it seems they need to keep the motherboard and drives happy so I would expect them to be usable.

I have heard of using blue light with a treated glass in front of it that can tune the wavelengths.  Do you know anything about that?

Also, it seems you are not using the red and blue light commonly used.  Are you still able to get good growth rates in both vegetation and flowering stages?

I have some 4 watt strips with about 20 micro LED's that each is 4 watts.  The color is red at 630 nm.

Anyway, I am interested in LED's as I see they are the future.  I have some commercial lights and they were very good in terms of growth and minimal heat as well.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: XXXX]
    #657847 - 02/06/13 08:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

People seem to be getting into the larger cool/warm white diodes lately. Apparently they're doing pretty well. Even Advanced LED threw some 10w white diodes on their xm-l lights.  I'd like to see a grow log with this light. what kind of g/m2 are you getting with it?

They are using phosphors (nano technology) to change blue led (the most efficient color) into basically any color, particularly the one's that they can't make with regular LED's. It the next big thing coming to LED, but not the most popular yet.


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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: XXXX]
    #658022 - 02/08/13 02:15 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I would like to know how to wire up a grow light using a computer power supply as they are so prevalent.  I don't know if they would be suitable but it seems they need to keep the motherboard and drives happy so I would expect them to be usable.



You can use a computer P/S for low-power DIY experiments, but LEDs are quite voltage and heat sensitive and require special drivers for long life and optimum efficiency. These drivers are required in a professional unit. I certainly would not risk frying an expensive emitter.


Quote:

I have heard of using blue light with a treated glass in front of it that can tune the wavelengths.  Do you know anything about that?




You have a serious misunderstanding of light and how it works. Filtering only removes light. It never adds light; nor can blue light be 'tuned' to make other colors - whatever that means.


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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: phychotron]
    #658023 - 02/08/13 02:17 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

People seem to be getting into the larger cool/warm white diodes lately. Apparently they're doing pretty well. Even Advanced LED threw some 10w white diodes on their xm-l lights.  I'd like to see a grow log with this light. what kind of g/m2 are you getting with it?




Already answered a few potsts back. I will be starting a grow log with the new light very soon. Everyone loves photos of bud porn, but the PAR light readings will really tell the story. Then I will know if I have a superior product or not.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #658075 - 02/08/13 07:44 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:



You have a serious misunderstanding of light and how it works. Filtering only removes light. It never adds light; nor can blue light be 'tuned' to make other colors - whatever that means.




http://www.intematix.com/products/phosphors/led-phosphors


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #658077 - 02/08/13 08:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

Already answered a few potsts back.




Not seeing g/m2, only g/w.


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: phychotron]
    #658096 - 02/08/13 10:31 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Didn't calculate that and don't have the data. This round I will be keeping accurate records. As I said though my grow space sucks and cannot be amended due to certain limitations.

I have 8 baby seedlings started under another light while this grow finishes up so look for a journal in the near future.

Anyhow, here she is all wired up and fired up:







It was impossible to take a picture direct on without total washout.

Note the natural color of the plants. No excessive blue or yellow like with HID. The reflectors over the CFLs are just draped on there until I build real ones.

That is an alomst finished indica in the lower right on a dias about 16" shorter than the A-Train monsters trying to swallow her.

This unit has exposed wires and is not UL approved. :lol: A production unit would be made very safe if I go that route.


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Offlineboneynerd
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #658440 - 02/10/13 07:00 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

LED's just aren't to my standards.

Yes I have bought the 3W+ LED's and stuff, but for bud they cannot handle it for me.


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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: boneynerd]
    #658442 - 02/10/13 09:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Most monochrome 3W LEDs are 30 to 40 LPW (or less for the older ones). These are 108 LPW for the 2700K and 115 LPW for the 5000K.

No comparison.


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Invisibleledgrewer
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #658444 - 02/10/13 09:51 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well a 50 watt led per bulb in all the right spectrums I could see growing a plant as good as anything else that is trying to grow them (HID), if not way better, but you'd see some more reds and blues in yours I'm not sure what you have going on here.

How long has that light been on those plants? They don't look like what I'd imagine 50 watter leds doing as far as leaf growth and structure goes. They look cfl grown, that middle ones leaves look decent but the others look like they are used to a weak light and environment.


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OfflineOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: ledgrewer]
    #658448 - 02/10/13 10:05 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The lamp was just put up there for the photo. As I just finished building it, it would be impossible to grow plants that fast! :wink:

I tested the actual power draw at 141 watts (without the CFLs), so they are pulling about 28 watts apiece. I could drive them harder with different drivers. Am pushing them @ 700mA of a possible 1100mA.

I will be doing a start to finish grow log. I have eight seedlings under 20 watts of LED right now. Will cull that down to four plants and keep them fairly small as my grow space is only 2' X 2'.


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Invisibleledgrewer
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Re: Would you pay for plans for a superior LED grow light? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #658457 - 02/10/13 11:48 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

One 50w single bulbed light? A single spectrum?

I'd be using these 50 watts in a somewhat larger scale to provide balanced spectrums more to the flowering side to make it a light that is good for flowering but veges, while providing balance the entire time.

Like 10 of these 50w bulbs to equal a 280 watt light. All of the lights in the different spectrums that are used with a few more red over the others and maybe even a small uv I see that some add this in but I'd only add in like a 3watt one of those not sure how much it really helps.

If you were to put all 5 of those as one light over some plants I imagine that thing to grow some really strong plants with thick stems, nice structures, and nice sized buds if its the same spectrums as my leds but larger. Just comparing 1watt per bulb to 3 watt per bulb is two way different stories. If what you say is also happening (no shade) this means your penetration is there too, and may keep up with or outproduce hps per watt/size of growroom etc even on the larger plants.

Per watt I'd imagine these blowing hps away if they are the right spectrum and wattages you say, plus you can do a balanced spectrum while making it more of a flowering light to give it a balanced light which should be better overall for both growth stages which I think is partially why leds are working so damn well when you use them while making penetration no issue.


Edited by ledgrewer (02/10/13 01:13 PM)


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