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InvisibleMagashM
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Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,632
Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: TomCollins]
    #678410 - 07/17/13 01:35 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

And I can understand that. But I think you can also see how letting go and forgiving, can actually be better for both parties.




Yes but I'm in the real world where this just isn't going to happen including where you live.

Quote:

My reading is pretty bad.




lol....I'm not gonna comment.

Quote:

This is where I think we don't see eye to eye. First off, many of those people are jailed unfairly, so I really do question why they got there. But that's beside the point:

I don't think any sane human being, with equal opportunities and rights, commits crimes against others. Why would they? My only explanation is that you must be ill. If they're ill, they need help.




This is where your dead wrong. Not my word but the word of Dr. Scott A. Bonn, PhD world foremost expert on why people kill. Also according to  Professor David Wilson who is the foremost expert on both killers and serial killers in Europe. He's based in England. How exactly is a person who killed somebody put in jail unfairly? The comment makes no sense.

Quote:

Two wrongs don't make a right either. You don't rectify a ruined life with another ruined life.

There is never a good excuse to kill period.




Your basically repeating what I said in the quote. Yes two wrongs don't make a right.


Quote:

Nothing ever gives you the right to do that. The fact is, those are some of the factors behind what cause violence and unrest in many societies. So whether it gives you the right or not, they are causal factors. So you either have to introduce a top down strategy and improve infrastructure, or go bottom up and fix victims.





Neither of which is ever going to happen. I'm in the real world. When a person has lost a child due to murder how do you fix that victim. Once again your stating the impossible. This includes where you live.


Quote:

This is where I think we don't see eye to eye. First off, many of those people are jailed unfairly, so I really do question why they got there. But that's beside the point:

I don't think any sane human being, with equal opportunities and rights, commits crimes against others. Why would they? My only explanation is that you must be ill. If they're ill, they need help.





Once again your stating things that have been proven wrong in countless studies. No as much as I hate to say it the majority of killers wether serial or otherwise have been proven not to be mentally ill wether here or in Europe.
One of the  best studies on this is by (I told ya I studied this in depth) University of California, Los Angeles, professor of psychiatry and biobehavioral sciences and director of the school's Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation Laboratory


Quote:

That's not true at all. Rehabilitation has helped many people. People have an incredible capacity for change and resilience.




Once again yeah it is true as much as I hate to say it both here and there. Numerous studies have proven this also.


Quote:

Moderately successful compared to what though? And I have to disagree, compassionate rehabilitation works more than it doesn't otherwise it wouldn't be used in places like Sweden or the Netherlands.




Really I need to see this because every study out of Europe says that over 85% of your criminals recommit. The rehabilitation rate both here and in Europe has been major landslide of failure.

Quote:


That's not true at all. Rehabilitation has helped many people. People have an incredible capacity for change and resilience.




Sure it's helped many people but in over 85% of the cases in Europe and 90% here it has failed. I'm not stating my opinion which is what your doing. The majority of the time it has failed. The one country world wide that has had the most success in rehabilitation is Norway and they are at 50%


Quote:

First of all, mental illnesses can also develop during the course of a persons life solely due to environmental factors and furthermore, it should be noted the exponential growth in mental illnesses across societies.

Second of all I can't see how you think murderers are totally sane people. Why would you harm someone unless it was for a survival advantage? Almost all human survival advantage comes from co-dependance. Any deviation from the tribal model in my view is a flaw in the mind of the deviant one.




Non of the mental illness that cause people to kill have been proven to be caused by environmental factors.

A good read on the subject is by Coin Wilson and Donald Seaman in The Serial Killers: A Study in the Psychology of Violence.


Quote:


Then all intentional murderers are mentally ill. If it was wrong to them they wouldn't do it.




Once again proven wrong in so many studies conducted world wide I can't even begin to list them all. Take for instance first degree murder where the murder has to be planed out over a period of time in most cases. Mentally ill people if they are that don't sit and plant a murder for financial gain over a period of years. Your stating opinions and I'm stating case studies.
Ted Bundy for one was never found to be insane but still killed over 30 people. Do I think he was insane sure I do but unfortunately I'm wrong have been proven wrong by the experts who know a hell of a lot more then we do.
Also the case of Behring Breivik. He killed 77 people in Norway and was found to be sane at the time of the incident.  Two psychiatric experts recommended he spend four weeks under 24-hour psychiatric monitoring. The report said Breivik was not psychotic at the time of the crimes, does not suffer from a psychiatric condition and is not mentally challenged.

Quote:

It hasn't worked because it has never been instituted. How can such a model work in a country like the United States when your economy is designed for a perpetual state of warfare? You say it hasn't worked, but I ask, what trials are you referring to?

Cool, but I'm not telling you how people can hate you because of your race, I'm telling you hate for your race or sexuality, it's hate all the same for individual differences.




Just one of numerous trials is the Crominon project.
Established in 1970 in New Zealand, the Criminon program consists of exact steps, each one bringing about precise changes in the individual. Growing out of the worldwide Narconon drug rehabilitation program3, Criminon now operates within corrections systems throughout the United States to rehabilitate criminals by restoring their sense of self-worth so that they can become productive members of society.

The centerpiece of the Criminon program covers 21 precepts that make up this non-religious, common sense moral code. Each precept is studied so that an inmate not only understands how it applies to his own life, but so he actually can utilize the precept to increase the survival potential of himself and others.

This has been the best attempt so far world wide and has had moderate success.


Quote:

It's just primordial prevention, the help me help you thing. You help the ex-con get a job and a house and he stop committing crimes and contributes legitimately to the economy. I think it could work - but I think people in the U.S. might have a hard time knowing tax money and job preference is given to criminals.




Your rates of success there are barely better then here and your economic system isn't all that different then ours.

Then again if you had the same access to guns that we have here your rates would drop to be as low as ours.- That is a opinion not a fact

Experts on the subjects covered.
Dr. Scott A. Bonn, PhD
Professor David Wilson
Columbia's Paul Appelbaum and Harvard's Steven Pinker
FBI Serial Killer Expert John Douglas (FBI Serial Crime Expert, John Douglas' book is called "Mindhunter". In it, Douglas recounts some of his cases involving several of the most notable serial killers of our time. He talks about the science behind criminal profiling and the patterns of behaviour adopted by perpetrators)
Author and forensic psychology teacher Dr. Katherine Ramsland


These men were found to be sane at the time they committed their crimes

(committed his crimes in London)




--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Magash]
    #678413 - 07/17/13 01:49 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

Also I'm not saying why I studied the subject but I will say my ex wife is still alive and well. :tongue:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Magash]
    #678414 - 07/17/13 01:51 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

I get what your saying. I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: TomCollins]
    #678416 - 07/17/13 02:01 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

Well dumb it down for me cause it sounds like your saying that the majority of criminals can be rehabilitated.

That all killers are mentally insane.

That they are products of their environment or their social status.



Am I misreading you?


:happyweed:


I need to smoke a bowl and a pepperoni hot pocket. :wink:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineSham87
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Magash]
    #678446 - 07/17/13 06:14 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

Your avatar has me raging bro.


--------------------
...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...



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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Magash]
    #678991 - 07/23/13 07:17 AM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Busy week. Wanted to give you a reply.

Quote:

Magash said:
This is where your dead wrong. Not my word but the word of Dr. Scott A. Bonn, PhD world foremost expert on why people kill. Also according to  Professor David Wilson who is the foremost expert on both killers and serial killers in Europe. He's based in England. How exactly is a person who killed somebody put in jail unfairly? The comment makes no sense.




What I'm saying is that for many people, the conditions for which they were jailed were unfair - we can assume the same for some murder trials I think. An insane person who commits a murder and is jailed would be put in jail unfairly.

Quote:

Magash said:
...Neither of which is ever going to happen. I'm in the real world.




You keep repeating this, but the real world is only relative to where you are and what you choose to believe. Stating it over and over says absolutely nothing.

Quote:

Magash said:
Really I need to see this because every study out of Europe says that over 85% of your criminals recommit. The rehabilitation rate both here and in Europe has been major landslide of failure.




Quote:

Magash said:
Sure it's helped many people but in over 85% of the cases in Europe and 90% here it has failed. I'm not stating my opinion which is what your doing. The majority of the time it has failed. The one country world wide that has had the most success in rehabilitation is Norway and they are at 50%




You should provide a link to some sort of meta study then. Because a short google search provided counter evidence to this statement.

As far as I understand, there has been a dramatic increase in prisons since the 1970s and this has failed to rehabilitate criminals.

Quote:

Magash said:Non of the mental illness that cause people to kill have been proven to be caused by environmental factors.




A simple google search pulls up a counter article with references to studies. The DSM is constantly evolving, there is mislabeling and all humans fall within some spectrum of illness. I would go so far to say that mental illness is still poorly understood and treated. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/12/are-all-murderers-mentally-ill/67295/

I may be starting my opinion, but all you're doing is appealing to authority.

I can't argue with with information I've never looked at...

... but that does not validate your argument. There are many PhDs out there who say different things on the matter. So unless you are able to logically validate why you think your ideas are right, you probably don't know what your talking about.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: TomCollins]
    #678994 - 07/23/13 09:45 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

What I'm saying is that for many people, the conditions for which they were jailed were unfair - we can assume the same for some murder trials I think. An insane person who commits a murder and is jailed would be put in jail unfairly.




Quote:

What I'm saying is that for many people, the conditions for which they were jailed were unfair - we can assume the same for some murder trials I think.




Key words in this statment "I think"

I've also said that mistakes do happen and people are gonna get locked up unfairly but you have yet to state what we are to do with people that commit murder insane or not.

Just your opinion with nothing to back it. There are more then enough studies to prove otherwise. The fact that most people that commit murder are not insane. Sure some are but not very often. Nothing is foolproof so some will get locked up. Have a better method of doing things then tell it.


Quote:


You keep repeating this, but the real world is only relative to where you are and what you choose to believe. Stating it over and over says absolutely nothing.




If you didn't keep saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over I wouldn't have to repeat myself would I?


Quote:

As far as I understand, there has been a dramatic increase in prisons since the 1970s and this has failed to rehabilitate criminals.




Now you're repeating what I said. I've been saying all along that attempts to rehabilitate are dismal at best both here and there.


Quote:

A simple google search pulls up a counter article with references to studies. The DSM is constantly evolving, there is mislabeling and all humans fall within some spectrum of illness. I would go so far to say that mental illness is still poorly understood and treated. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/12/are-all-murderers-mentally-ill/67295/

I may be starting my opinion, but all you're doing is appealing to authority.





A google search is going to give articles on both sides of the argument that was a dumb statment. That is why I gave a list of people considered the top of their field. You gave a article that goes back and forth on the subject.



Quote:

Barbara R. Kirwin, a forensic psychologist and author who has also studied hundreds of murder defendants, as saying she'd found about 10 percent of them to have histories of childhood abuse. Kirwin said she'd seen "plenty" of people with normally competent brains who simply had a gross lack of empathy.




and then


Quote:

Dr. Terry Kupers, a psychiatrist who specializes in forensic and correctional mental health issues, agrees. "In prison populations, it's known that 60-80% of prisoners have had serious physical and sexual abuse prior to their crimes and incarceration," he says. "And the prevalence of that is higher on death row than elsewhere in prisons." 




This is getting a little boring so lets just put it this way. You have pretty much done nothing but give your opinion so lets hear your great idea on what we should do with people that commit murder wether insane or not. You have a better idea then keeping them locked away from the general population lets hear it.

Quote:

I may be starting my opinion, but all you're doing is appealing to authority.




This comment is stupid at best. I simply got my information from the people listed above. Considered the top of their fields both here and in Europe. You have done nothing but state opinion and a article that goes back and fourth on the subject.

So this comment actually fits you better

Quote:

but that does not validate your argument. There are many PhDs out there who say different things on the matter. So unless you are able to logically validate why you think your ideas are right, you probably don't know what your talking about.




I have yet to state my ideas or opinions but since you have done nothing but that now is my chance.

What I would do is far more cruel then what we are already doing. I personally don't go for that abused as a child, society was mean to me, head trauma, he screwed my wife or whatever the reason bullshit. Millions upon millions of others have gone threw the same and don't find the need to kill or commit crimes for that matter.
So if one of my kids were to get murdered would I care if that person was insane, hell no. Would I care if that person was treated unjustly, hell no. Like I said this is just my opinion. The only people that get locked up unjustly for murder are the ones who got there and didn't commit a murder. The others insane or not are human garbage and should be treated as such. That includes people that have been so called rehabilitated as far as I'm concerned once a killer always a killer. They should never be allowed to be free again period. I don't believe in giving a break for any of the bullshit reasons we have discussed in this entire conversation.
Yup as fucked up as my opinions are the one thing I do that you don't even come close to doing is consider the victim or the people who suffer because of their death.


So what exactly would you do with these people? Since you already said this -

Quote:


As far as I understand, there has been a dramatic increase in prisons since the 1970s and this has failed to rehabilitate criminals.




rehabilitating them isn't a option. Wether in jail or out most attempts to rehabilitate murderers have failed. I already named the largest and most successful attempt at doing this but since you missed it I'll say it again.

Quote:

Just one of numerous trials is the Crominon project.
Established in 1970 in New Zealand, the Criminon program consists of exact steps, each one bringing about precise changes in the individual. Growing out of the worldwide Narconon drug rehabilitation program3, Criminon now operates within corrections systems throughout the United States to rehabilitate criminals by restoring their sense of self-worth so that they can become productive members of society.

The centerpiece of the Criminon program covers 21 precepts that make up this non-religious, common sense moral code. Each precept is studied so that an inmate not only understands how it applies to his own life, but so he actually can utilize the precept to increase the survival potential of himself and others.

This has been the best attempt so far world wide and has had moderate success.





So for the millionth time what better method do you have then what is already going on now? I have yet to hear about a magical European cure to murder or a magical European method of rehabilitation.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisibleP-O


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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Magash]
    #678996 - 07/23/13 11:43 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Magash, arguing with someone who has serious mental illness's is pointless.... 

(im not making this up)


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InvisibleUltimateDevotion
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: P-O]
    #678999 - 07/23/13 11:59 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

I hope he doesn't kill someone!
:minigun:


--------------------
Harry Detroit in 304 made one last promise now
"I'm goin out without a trace, a vanishing act before your eyes"


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InvisibleDeadkndys420
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: UltimateDevotion]
    #679003 - 07/23/13 01:49 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)



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InvisibleUltimateDevotion
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Deadkndys420]
    #679005 - 07/23/13 02:14 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

I keep forgetting that this was a gay spiderman topic, lol


--------------------
Harry Detroit in 304 made one last promise now
"I'm goin out without a trace, a vanishing act before your eyes"


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OfflineSham87
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: UltimateDevotion]
    #679008 - 07/23/13 03:38 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

:lol:


--------------------
...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...



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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Sham87]
    #679021 - 07/23/13 07:07 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Yeah it went off track but how much can you say about gay spider man



--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisibleUltimateDevotion
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Magash]
    #679022 - 07/23/13 07:23 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Very true indeed.  :realpeter:


--------------------
Harry Detroit in 304 made one last promise now
"I'm goin out without a trace, a vanishing act before your eyes"


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Invisibleeman nigol
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Sham87]
    #746138 - 09/03/14 12:45 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sham87 said:
The main actor is trying to change Spider Man into a gay:
http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/andrew-garfield-suggests-wire-star-michael-b-jordan-174552185.html

Quote:

Andrew Garfield as Spiderman and Michael B. Jordan Photo Courtesy of Columbia/Inset: Getty

By now it's pretty well known that "The Amazing Spider-Man" star Andrew Garfield is something of an expert on his superhero alter ego. In fact, the 29-year-old actor feels so secure in his Spidey knowledge that he is now proposing to take the comic character — and his sexuality — in a whole new direction. And he wants "Fruitvale Station" star Michael B. Jordan to partake in his new vision.

Garfield has been a Spider-fan since he was a kid ... and perhaps now even more of one as an adult, as he surprised San Diego Comic-Con attendees in 2011 by showing up to ask a "fan question" of the "Spider-Man" panel wearing a makeshift Spidey costume that was about one step up from Underoos.
[Related: 'The Amazing Spider-Man 2' Spoiler Alert: Is Emma Stone's Costume a Dead Giveaway?]

Garfield is so aware of the intricacies of the complicated "Spider-Man" mythology that he feels confident proposing a big change in Peter Parker's private life: a complete and total sexual makeover for ol' webhead — and a complete and total gender swap for who's arguably his most popular and enduring love interest, Mary Jane Watson.

"I was kind of joking, but kind of not joking about MJ," Garfield told Entertainment Weekly. "And I was like, 'What if MJ is a dude?' Why can't we discover that Peter is exploring his sexuality? It's hardly even groundbreaking! So why can't he be gay? Why can't he be into boys?"


This radical rethinking of Peter's redheaded ladyfriend no doubt came upon the aftermath of the character being cut from "The Amazing Spider-Man 2." Mary Jane was to be played by "The Descendents" star Shailene Woodley, who appeared in scenes that have unfortunately ended up on the cutting room floor (or the Recycle Bin, in today's brave new world of digital filmmaking).

Garfield even has an actor in mind to play "MJ as a dude": Michael B. Jordan, who has his own big-screen superhero cred thanks to his starring role in "Chronicle" (2012). He is also the star of indie flick "Fruitvale Station," which is already getting Oscar buzz (in theaters this weekend).

"I've been obsessed with Michael B. Jordan since 'The Wire,'" admits the actor. "He's so charismatic and talented. It'd be even better — we'd have interracial bisexuality!”

Garfield has pitched the idea to "The Amazing Spider-Man" director Marc Webb, who is apparently, uh, taking it under advisement.

"Michael B. Jordan, I know," said Webb when EW asked him about Garfield's proposal. Ah, so he's already heard about this? "Uh, are you kidding?"

Who said the new "Spider-Man" movie series had nothing new to offer?

Yahoo! Movies reached out to Jordan for his thoughts on the topic. He declined to comment.

"The Amazing Spider-Man 2" swings into theaters on May 2, 2014. "The Amazing Spider-Man 3," which is scheduled to open on June 10, 2016, sounds like it could end up being a very, very interesting film.




:doublefacepalm:




:lolsy:


--------------------
I was down on my luck
So I put my bag in the back of my black Cadillac Coupe DeVille
I had a meeting at the crossroad
But didn't know that my soul was about to get killed


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OfflineSham87
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: eman nigol]
    #746142 - 09/03/14 01:43 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't even keep up with this. I wonder if it went on?


--------------------
...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...



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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Sham87]
    #746144 - 09/03/14 03:45 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I have no idea how me and Tom got into this argument over murder and punishment but it was one of my favorite discussions I've had here. :shrug:

I had a chance to get into it with somebody over something other then growing. :wexican:


:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineSham87
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Magash]
    #746164 - 09/03/14 11:23 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

You debater you! It was fun reading y'all posts.

Any new bud pics???


--------------------
...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...



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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Sham87]
    #746171 - 09/03/14 11:48 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sham87 said:
You debater you! It was fun reading y'all posts.

Any new bud pics???




Not yet. I'm gonna take some in a few weeks to show what the Maxigro and Maxibloom I was posting about in the cultivation section can do. They are at 3 weeks now so I figure at about 6 weeks I'll start snaping a few.


:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineSham87
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Re: Any one into Spider Man? Well guess what... [Re: Magash]
    #746172 - 09/03/14 11:58 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Nice. That picture of the full melt you always post makes me drool.

But yea gay spider man...


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...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...



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