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OfflineUnsureE
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Cloning
    #668897 - 05/03/13 06:31 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

What is the best way to clone? I have just cut a northern light clone and put it directly in water, how long should I leave it in there, till it roots then transplant to soil using clonex gel?


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: Cloning [Re: UnsureE]
    #668899 - 05/03/13 06:44 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Well theres a little more to it them that man . use that search engine at the top man . Where are so many ways to clone or try is what i do. I always cut mine under water put in rooting compound and straight into soil


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Offlineitsaconspiracy
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Re: Cloning [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
    #668906 - 05/03/13 07:50 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

budgrowerwannabe said: Well theres a little more to it them that man



:werd: there some good tutorals floating aroud on the internet just type in "how to clone a marijuana plant" on Bing or Google and the skies the limit on how many sites pop up


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OfflinePoloDown
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Re: Cloning [Re: itsaconspiracy]
    #668954 - 05/03/13 07:32 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

the easiest and most simple way to clone for me was an aero cloner.


Cut the clone, dip in hormone, suspend it in the bucket. then you dont do anything till there is roots


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #668957 - 05/03/13 08:16 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

aerocloners are by far the best and most affordable option. You can build one for around $40, then it only takes a few pennies per time.

I use what is called the "scrape technique" and just add about 1ml/gal of Superthrive (its IBA-the rooting hormone and B vitamins) or other IBA containing product. Hella roots in 3-12 days, depending on the daily/nightly temps.



--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
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“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflinePoloDown
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Re: Cloning [Re: phychotron]
    #668969 - 05/03/13 09:38 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
aerocloners are by far the best and most affordable option. You can build one for around $40, then it only takes a few pennies per time.

I use what is called the "scrape technique" and just add about 1ml/gal of Superthrive (its IBA-the rooting hormone and B vitamins) or other IBA containing product. Hella roots in 3-12 days, depending on the daily/nightly temps.






i made my own, it looks exactly like that but its 2 gallon version.

I use cutting edge micro and bloom, about 2.5ml-5ml per gallon. i get roots in about 5-12 days.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #669044 - 05/04/13 03:09 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

don't put any nutrients in the water. Not until the roots have already started to grow. Even then, I like to transplant early like when shown.

I go into coco using the 1L Airpots. those 1L 'aircells' as they call them, are amazing, and probably one of the best investments you can make for young plants. They way they are setup allows them to transplant very very well, lots of root tips just waiting to go, not swirled at the bottom, but dozens of points sticking out.

The larger airpots might not be worth it, compared to bags (but they're rigid and work very well), but the 1L are worth the $2.50.

these here in the front:


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
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“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflinePoloDown
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Re: Cloning [Re: phychotron]
    #669058 - 05/04/13 04:24 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Definitely like the idea of those one liter air pots. I might get some of those.

Why no nutrients before roots? I only have 8 plugs and I don't do all 8 at once. Ill take a couple here and a couple there with a few days to a week apart at least. Would I just be running plain water the whole time then?

Mine never bush out like that its always just one long search root that eventually branches out. But I hate that because I have had then break off before.


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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #669065 - 05/04/13 04:53 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Nutrients just tend to cause problems before it roots. They don't need salts/nutrition--they cant absorb any, they need rooting hormone. You could run plain water, and I've had decent results with just that, but if you keep it simple with a little IBA based product you can have it last a few weeks(months) without having to change the water. Depends on how your stuff looks after awhile, but if it feels/smells like normal water then i'll leave it.

Do you scrape at all? take a fresh razor and drag is sideways down the bottom ~inch of the stem in 2-3 spots to take the outermost layer of cells off.

I have the 15 minute interval timer, so I do 15/30 on/off, sometimes 15/15, but it depends on the time of year, if its getting too warm/cold, I'll let the pump run more/less often to keep the temperature. Not sure of the exact temp of the water, but its lukewarm when it's working the best. I have a seedling heat mat taped around it for the winter.

That 5 gallon bucket with 13 sites can take around 50 clones. You can put 3-4 cuts into one collar, they have the t shape, then just don't let the roots get tangled up, its why I'm transplanting when they first show up like that, but also once they get to that point they take to the coco/aircells well.



--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #669067 - 05/04/13 04:59 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Why no nutrients before roots?


If they are getting nutrients and water without the roots forming new roots will be slow cause the plant will be focusing on growing vegitive growth since it's able to meet it's needs without the roots.

Even though both done with a aero cloner this is with no gel


This is with gel even though they were only in it for a few seconds


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OfflineAngus
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Re: Cloning [Re: Magash]
    #669075 - 05/04/13 05:58 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Surprised to hear people say aero cloners are "cheapest" or "simplest".  I can't think of a more expensive or complicated way to clone. 

My favorite way to clone:

-Go to the grocery store and buy a cake.
-Go home and eat the cake.
-Cut clones, dip in water, dip in clone powder and put in damp soil.
-Put clone trays in plastic cake dome.
-Put cake dome in the veg room.
-10-20 days later, clones are rooted.

I submit that that method is cheaper, simpler and tastier than an aerocloner!

That being said...aerocloners are pretty neat and effective and probably a better way to go overall.  :smile:


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OfflinePoloDown
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Re: Cloning [Re: Magash]
    #669093 - 05/04/13 07:54 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
Nutrients just tend to cause problems before it roots. They don't need salts/nutrition--they cant absorb any, they need rooting hormone. You could run plain water, and I've had decent results with just that, but if you keep it simple with a little IBA based product you can have it last a few weeks(months) without having to change the water. Depends on how your stuff looks after awhile, but if it feels/smells like normal water then i'll leave it.

Do you scrape at all? take a fresh razor and drag is sideways down the bottom ~inch of the stem in 2-3 spots to take the outermost layer of cells off.

I have the 15 minute interval timer, so I do 15/30 on/off, sometimes 15/15, but it depends on the time of year, if its getting too warm/cold, I'll let the pump run more/less often to keep the temperature. Not sure of the exact temp of the water, but its lukewarm when it's working the best. I have a seedling heat mat taped around it for the winter.

That 5 gallon bucket with 13 sites can take around 50 clones. You can put 3-4 cuts into one collar, they have the t shape, then just don't let the roots get tangled up, its why I'm transplanting when they first show up like that, but also once they get to that point they take to the coco/aircells well.





Quote:

Magash said:
Quote:


Why no nutrients before roots?


If they are getting nutrients and water without the roots forming new roots will be slow cause the plant will be focusing on growing vegitive growth since it's able to meet it's needs without the roots.

Even though both done with a aero cloner this is with no gel


This is with gel even though they were only in it for a few seconds





Okay that makes sense. Well being that I have clones going in and out of the bucket all the time should I just do plain RO water and dip all the cuttings and scrape them before dipping?

I wouldn't mind doing plain water if its as effective as using nutes. Because it seems like I would have slow roots all the time then if I'm using the nutes full time.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #669099 - 05/04/13 10:28 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

if your IBA is in the water then you wont need to dip, just scrape and put in while the pump is running, they will get the stuff. gel might be easier to dip first if thats what you have.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
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“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineSmokeSomeHash
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Re: Cloning [Re: phychotron]
    #669112 - 05/04/13 02:58 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I know this thread is about clones but i just wanna second that those airpots, although pricey, are the shit!

Theyre supposed to be the equivalent of a container 3x the size since the roots dont circle. The 1L is supposed to be the same as a regular 3L.

And i believe it cuz i got some HUGE plants out of those tiny lil 1Ls...sorta bitch to water though i had to bottom water and soak em. But they work awesome.


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: Cloning [Re: Angus]
    #669116 - 05/04/13 03:44 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Angus said:
Surprised to hear people say aero cloners are "cheapest" or "simplest".  I can't think of a more expensive or complicated way to clone. 

My favorite way to clone:

-Go to the grocery store and buy a cake.
-Go home and eat the cake.
-Cut clones, dip in water, dip in clone powder and put in damp soil.
-Put clone trays in plastic cake dome.
-Put cake dome in the veg room.
-10-20 days later, clones are rooted.

I submit that that method is cheaper, simpler and tastier than an aerocloner!

That being said...aerocloners are pretty neat and effective and probably a better way to go overall.  :smile:




Well this it almost the same way I clone I just dont use a cake pan but i might I love cake!!This is what i cloned couple weeks ago.
They are diesel and critical plus


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Cloning [Re: Angus]
    #669177 - 05/05/13 01:10 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Angus said:
Surprised to hear people say aero cloners are "cheapest" or "simplest".  I can't think of a more expensive or complicated way to clone. 






The results that you get in just a few days, and the explosion of roots makes your plants grow and take much faster. Using most other methods will allow you to save money on materials/up front costs, but if you value the way the plants take root, it is the best for the price. I have only seen mediocre root growth, usually just one or two out of the root cubes or soil at first, it takes an extra few weeks for those plants to catch up. Try counting the roots that you get out of the aerocloner, its almost impossible sometimes.


You eliminate the uncertainty of rooting, no question of weather its rooting or not. I've gone weeks only to find that they are just sitting in the cube/soil not doing shit.

You get more bang for your buck with an aerocloner.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflinePoloDown
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Re: Cloning [Re: phychotron]
    #669180 - 05/05/13 01:22 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
if your IBA is in the water then you wont need to dip, just scrape and put in while the pump is running, they will get the stuff. gel might be easier to dip first if thats what you have.




I'm not sure what IBN is but I just ran out of nutrients. I was going to buy more cutting edge micro and bloom.

If I scrape the stem and use rooting hormone am I good with just running RO water 24/7? Keep n mind I have cuttings going in and it of the bucket every few days to a week, so they are constantly changing individually not all at once.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Cloning [Re: phychotron]
    #669186 - 05/05/13 01:50 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
Quote:

Angus said:
Surprised to hear people say aero cloners are "cheapest" or "simplest".  I can't think of a more expensive or complicated way to clone. 






The results that you get in just a few days, and the explosion of roots makes your plants grow and take much faster. Using most other methods will allow you to save money on materials/up front costs, but if you value the way the plants take root, it is the best for the price. I have only seen mediocre root growth, usually just one or two out of the root cubes or soil at first, it takes an extra few weeks for those plants to catch up. Try counting the roots that you get out of the aerocloner, its almost impossible sometimes.


You eliminate the uncertainty of rooting, no question of weather its rooting or not. I've gone weeks only to find that they are just sitting in the cube/soil not doing shit.

You get more bang for your buck with an aerocloner.




I'll agree with some of this. Now as far as cost the aero cloner is gonna win that cause once past he cost of buying or making one you can get away with just plain water if you want. As far as easier it wins there also.  No domes just plug and play so to say.

Now as far as faster and better rooting I have to disagree. Not seeing rooting as fast as a aero cloner or as much rooting then you need to modify your tech.

This is what rooted cubes should look like within three weeks of taking the clone.

With plugs


Rockwool


:happyweed:


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #669192 - 05/05/13 02:11 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

IBA is the rooting hormone most common to those rooting products. You can use RO water and whichever root stimulator you can find. You can sometimes find it as low as $5 for powder at many garden sections of stores. I use Superthrive (IBA and B vitamins) because I had it around, but its pretty cheap and works very well, better than Olivia's cloning gel, the $10 bottle has lasted me a few years. They also make a $5 bottle of it. It also holds up well in the water for a few weeks. As for running 24/7, I find that the pump heats the water too much. The 15 minute interval timer works to control heat, and it seems to work better with a wet/dry cycle.

Some useless information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indole-3-butyric_acid


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
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OfflinePoloDown
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Re: Cloning [Re: phychotron]
    #669196 - 05/05/13 02:28 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Would you say the results are equal if I use root hormone gel/powder and RO water vs nutrients in the water? By running 24/7 I meant that I either have to run plain water or nutrient water but not both since I change all the time.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Cloning [Re: Magash]
    #669199 - 05/05/13 02:37 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:

Not seeing rooting as fast as a aero cloner or as much rooting then you need to modify your tech.







Its not just my tech, its almost everyone's clone's I've seen. Its easier to teach someone how to make an aerocloner than it is to explain to everyone how to get the optimal growth conditions for cloning, and then have them to actually achieve that. Its about $50 to make the one I use, but it automates the whole thing.

Three weeks in an aerocloner and they would still have more roots than those. This photo was taken 27 days after being cut off the plant.



--------------------
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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #669203 - 05/05/13 02:48 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PoloDown said:
Would you say the results are equal if I use root hormone gel/powder and RO water vs nutrients in the water? By running 24/7 I meant that I either have to run plain water or nutrient water but not both since I change all the time.




no nutrients in the cloner until they are rooted, then you generally will want to change the water before taking more cuttings to put in. You can use just water, but its usually faster with a rooting hormone. If you are just using the rooting gel/powder then you can let your water sit longer, just take the clones out before the roots get massive.  Let the rooting period be a rooting period, not a nutrient period. It has all the stuff it needs to get started, you can feed it lightly when you transplant it.

Every time I, or someone else I've seen use nutrients before they root has some discoloration and usually not as fast as with just the root hormone. Maybe you can find the magic blend, but its better to keep it simple.


--------------------
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OfflineSmokeSomeHash
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Re: Cloning [Re: phychotron]
    #669210 - 05/05/13 04:02 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Just thought id show some different plants in an aero cloner for those who havent seen before. These are bouganvillea, coleus, vicks, and croton.

These are my personal plants that I cloned using the Ez clone gel since it came with the machine, and I also used that Clear-Rez they sell too cuz it had a sample of that too. Prolly wouldnt buy that again though.




Takes about 1 week to see lil nodes pop up, 1-2 weeks to see decent roots forming, and by 2-3 weeks you have whats in these pictures.

All these plants were taken at the same time so you can see different plants respond differently to different conditions. Some root slower naturally and some just explode. Coleus will root readily with no hormones in shitty water in less than a week for example. Most herbs i see are taken out by 2 weeks if they use a gel, and 3 weeks if just straight water for some people i know that dont use gel for organic reasons.

For those wondering whether to use a hormone or a nutrient, do not use nutrients. Its harder on the plant until it has roots. Even then, when I feel like doing a super fast clone for some of my special plants ill use the gel with straight RO water in the machine for about a week, then do a water change and add a rooting product such as General Hydro's Rapid Start and run it for about another week or two. It contains willow bark extract which has been used for propagating for ages but you only use it after the roots have begun to form.

And you can see the menthol in this pic is going nuts, but after too long they can get hard to take out and you can damage the root system.

If you wanna be a real cheapo gangsta about it you could go down to home depot and use that shitty Green Light Rooting Stimulator. I personally dont like it but it contains IBA and ive seen it used in aero's with good results.

Personally I am with Psychotron on the Airpots. I have seen people transplant to 3 or 5 liter Air Pot, veg for another week or two and then flower. The combination of completely unrestricted roots going into a container that can not get root bound are really fucking nuts. The plants take off super fast and get really big really fast.

Dont bitch cuz its not herb, im in texas so fuck you suck a dick. Just trying to show what roots look like since someone showed em in rockwool.


Edited by SmokeSomeHash (05/05/13 04:09 AM)


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OfflineSmokeSomeHash
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Re: Cloning [Re: SmokeSomeHash]
    #669214 - 05/05/13 04:19 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Oh yeah hey psychotron...how do you water those airpots. Because I noticed you have them in deep trays. I use em from time to time and I do the same because I flood it almost like an ebb and flow system and then drain it otherwise the water comes out the holes.

Then again I water from the bottom sometimes just cuz thats how I do it...but I know that will start a whole nother thread with people telling me im wrong.


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OfflinePoloDown
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Re: Cloning [Re: SmokeSomeHash]
    #669234 - 05/05/13 07:11 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Great posts going on lots of information here!!

Would you guys say those 1 liter air pots do as good or better then a 1 gallon bag or pot?


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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #669272 - 05/05/13 03:18 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Better.

Anything bigger than 3L gets expensive. The 1L and 3L are cool...anything bigger and id go with smart pots or similar.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #669288 - 05/05/13 08:09 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PoloDown said:
Great posts going on lots of information here!!

Would you guys say those 1 liter air pots do as good or better then a 1 gallon bag or pot?





For the airpots the 1L are by far the best investment. The larger the airpot the less you'll notice any difference over a cloth bag. The small 1L are great for prepping it to transplant to a large pot--the roots are in prime location for invading the soil as soon as it gets planted.

I only use them for about 2-3 weeks until they get roots like mad, then transplant them. Even In coco they don't have huge watering requirement for the first few weeks. Watering gets done with a small 2L water spout that gets right in the center. The tall sided trays are coincidental, they just happen to be in my closet, work perfectly, and accept the run off. Sometimes I'll leave some water in the bottom for a few days if they're going really fast.


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OfflinePoloDown
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Re: Cloning [Re: phychotron]
    #669289 - 05/05/13 09:01 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

They sound amazing.

For sea of green I've flowered in one gallon grow bags. I was considering doing a sea of green with 1 liter air pots instead of one gallon


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #669333 - 05/06/13 01:56 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I got mine from rogue hydro.com, they are listed as .3 gal now, but they look the same. $2.50 each is the best price I was able to find a year ago from them, probably still the cheapest. Looks like they have free shipping now too.

By grow bags do you mean plastic disposable or cloth? I'm not too fond of those plastic bags for very long, only when I need to hold a plant for awhile. I'd go with rigid plastic before I go back to the soft bags.

You could flower in the 1L, but I'd want a flood table or some sort of automatic watering, they're going to dry up fast in flower. I can't vouch for how well they would work that way, but I think the way I use them is the best route with them--prepping for transplant.


Sorry OP, we kinda hijacked the thread with the airpots, but still valuable info nonetheless.


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OfflineSmokeSomeHash
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Re: Cloning [Re: phychotron]
    #669356 - 05/06/13 07:59 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Ive flowered a monster plant in a 1L airpot. It was huge for such a tiny container but turned out to be male...One of the coolest plants i ever saw though.

But as far as the whole auto flood and drain even though its soil...i say thats the only way to use these pots.

They dry out so insanely fast but if you do a feeding every other water you pump more nutes into the same grow and if you know what youre doin can get fucking HUGE plants. You use a lot of nutes with very little soil and the containers are very, very sturdy and highly reusable.

I know the topic of bottom watering soil plants is debatable and some say its just not the way to do of salt build up but i highly disagree, especially with these pots.

Ane at what point is this thread hijacked?


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OfflinePoloDown
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Re: Cloning [Re: phychotron]
    #669364 - 05/06/13 09:31 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
I got mine from rogue hydro.com, they are listed as .3 gal now, but they look the same. $2.50 each is the best price I was able to find a year ago from them, probably still the cheapest. Looks like they have free shipping now too.

By grow bags do you mean plastic disposable or cloth? I'm not too fond of those plastic bags for very long, only when I need to hold a plant for awhile. I'd go with rigid plastic before I go back to the soft bags.

You could flower in the 1L, but I'd want a flood table or some sort of automatic watering, they're going to dry up fast in flower. I can't vouch for how well they would work that way, but I think the way I use them is the best route with them--prepping for transplant.


Sorry OP, we kinda hijacked the thread with the airpots, but still valuable info nonetheless.




I use the grow bags that are actual bags made of plastic. I'm only using them because they are tall and skinny instead of short and fat or whatever but that was for my veg tent and now I want to flower in them.

But now flowering in 1 liter air pots is starting to sound better then the one gallon bags or even plastic pots that are one gallon.  I'm not worried about having to water a lot because my flowe tent isn't that big I wouldn't have more then like 12 in there or so at a time


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OfflineUnsureE
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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #677314 - 07/08/13 12:17 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

whats the youngest plant youve taken clones off of?


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Cloning [Re: PoloDown]
    #677383 - 07/08/13 11:44 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Hey Polo I've flowered plants in small pots before.



but that doesn't mean I recommend it. The more root space the better no matter the situation. Weather in a air pot or hydro don't matter. More root space more yield simple as that.


:happyweed:


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