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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/02/10
Posts: 503
advice on cloning techniques *DELETED*
    #537413 - 03/17/11 12:06 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Pandor

Reason for deletion: plus plus to yo face



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Invisiblecoda


Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #537451 - 03/17/11 01:42 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I've never used rockwool, I wouldn't suggest it for clones although it is acceptable to use it as a medium.  If the rockwool you got did not come pre-treated you need to soak the rockwool in pH balanced water for 12 hours or so IIRC, otherwise the pH of the medium will be unsuitable for growth.  I've used peat pellets with a lot of success but I've recently switched to root riot pellets because I don't have to hydrate and I don't have to worry about over hydrating either.  A little pricey at 25 bucks a bag, but you get a fuck ton of them so unless you make massive clone runs they'll last for a while

Since the picture you show is displaying wilted clones it means you do not have enough humidity in your dome, roots have not formed yet, and the plants are transpiring more water then they are taking in. You may want to consider wetting down some perlite and lining the bottom of your cloning tray with it, this will provide more than enough humidity for your clones to prosper and root.

Second bit of advice I can give you is fuck the timeline, never ever follow a timeline to the T because a.) every plant is different b.) too many variables are involved to give exact times when you should do this and that.  Pay attention to your plants, that's what's important here. 

Even though this is not a foolproof method what I usually end up doing is letting the clones sit for 4-5 days cover closed completely.  Then at the end of that I will open the vents to release the humidity and get some airflow in their, if the clones wilt (usually happens pretty quickly if they're not rooted enough) I close the vents and give 2-3 more days.  Also when I reach this point I will give a very gentle tug on the stems to check if they've rooted into the cubes.  This gives me a good indication of how far they've come along, if they seem like they're going to pull out of the cube I know I need to keep that vent closed a little while longer.  If they seem stuck solid I know I have a decent set of root nubs and I can start lowering the humidity.  I try to wait until I see roots coming through the sides of the cube, but if I'm reaching the two week mark and they seem like they're rooted, I'll plant the clones and remove them from the humidity dome.  If the root system is too tiny and the plant begins to wilt I drop the plant into a gallon ziplock and seal it for another day, and keep checking every day to see if it can support itself.

Another thing to point out is you need to keep a check on root zone temps, your plants will root faster if you can keep the rootzone at around 80 F with a seedling mat, but at the same time you want to try and keep the air temps in the mid 70's.  Usually in the summer the ambient temps of my veg cab is more than enough to do this, come the fall and winter I need to use the seedling mat other wise the cubes get ice cold.

Cloning is about patience, and practice, and patience.  The beauty of cloning is that you can practice as much as you want, I routinely throw away shopping bags full of cuttings that I don't need from my moms.  A good bonsai mother can produce 20-40 good clones a month (rough estimate here), so theoretically you could do a small clone run every couple of weeks until you get it down.  Keep in mind that some strains are horribly difficult to clone, while others root with no effort.  I've had fully rooted clones take nine days, and I've had clone runs last up to almost a whole month before rooting.  So just keep at it and you'll find what works for you, because (as I like to say) the easiest and best method is the one that works for you.



Good luck!


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MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.


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Offlineimpgl

Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #537467 - 03/17/11 03:16 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

did the blocks ever dry out for more then a few hours? use a heat mat? pull one out from the cube and see if there are root starts. does anything feel overly slimy (moldy looking)?


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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/02/10
Posts: 503
Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: impgl]
    #537472 - 03/17/11 03:37 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

How do you water them if they dry out?
Do you spray them? If so when?


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #537477 - 03/17/11 04:03 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

first soak the rockwool cubes in 5.0 water. They come with a very high ph so soak them overnight in 5.0 to balance things out.

Take the cuttings and put them into the cubes. When the cubes need watered just dip them in water.


Cut the leaves in half. This will lower the need for water and the plants have no roots yet so they will be fine.


Wanna make it simple make a mushroom chamber and take the cuttings and put them in that then there will be no need to mist them.


Mist them 1 to 3 times a day (more if needed) but watch for rotting at the stem and any leaves that may be overlapping each other.




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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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Offlineshagdawg420
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Magash]
    #537597 - 03/17/11 06:06 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

lol a sgfc for weed woot


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OfflineRasJeph
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Magash]
    #537602 - 03/17/11 06:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
Wanna make it simple make a mushroom chamber and take the cuttings and put them in that then there will be no need to mist them.






Haha, thats exactly what I did. Recycling projects ftw!


--------------------
Of course it's happening inside your head.
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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #537604 - 03/17/11 06:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Cloning is very weird. The first 25 clones I cut all withered and died, then I finally got one to root. Once I had it figured out, I've rooted probably 500 clones with around >95% success, and I'm honestly not sure what exactly I changed about my strategy :shrug:

Just do what Magash said, trim the leaves, make sure they always have high humidity and plenty of moisture plus some light (I've rooted under T5, CFL or HPS).

If you really wanna cheat just buy (or build) an aerocloner. It's almost a joke how easy those are.


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Offlinekyuzo
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #537607 - 03/17/11 07:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I always found cloning plants pretty simple and strait forward, and have dealt with many different types (from MJ to nepenthes).  And in every case, bottom heat and high humidity are what makes the magic happen


PS I actually found rock wool one of the easiest mediums to clone in, but after I first wet the cubes, and shake out the excess moisture, I put them in bins, and have no need to water until I transplant


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: RasJeph]
    #537629 - 03/17/11 10:03 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RasJeph said:
Quote:

Magash said:
Wanna make it simple make a mushroom chamber and take the cuttings and put them in that then there will be no need to mist them.






Haha, thats exactly what I did. Recycling projects ftw!





Here is what I came up with for cloning in rockwool cubes (or any kind of cube for that matter)



So as many have heard I use to grow a shroom or two

Well a few years ago I came up with the Martha as some have heard soon after I came up with the Poor Man's Pod or PMP as it's called.

Well the first Martha proto type was this thing well I started thinking (and I'm amazed nobody did before) the needs for cuttings and shrooms are almost exactly the same. I firmly believe in constant airflow with shrooms and with cuttings which must be done without lowering humidity. This is of major importance cause it helps stop any kind of rot that may start.

Take your cutting using rockwool or cubes which I will show you both in a bit. Now take the cutting as normal taking a branch end about 4 inches long and taking off a leaf at the bottom of the 4 inches and cutting off the tip there. Dip in gel (I hear rootech works well) and mist it down good then into the chamber.   the cool mist runs 24/7 and the ultrasonic comes on for a hour and a half every 8 hrs. 

Now the ultrasonic does two things, it raises the humidity and it mist down the cuttings with a mist that is much finer them a shitty ass spray bottle. There are no droplets just a fine coat of mist. the last thing it does is it keeps you the fuck out. Stick the cuttings in and keep the humidifiers full. The ultrasonic should be hooked up above the cool mist outlet so the fog drops into the cool mist airstream and mixes good in the chamber air.

After a week cut the time down to 45 min every 3 hrs.

Then a few days after that or at the 10 day mark shut off the humidifiers and take off the top and let em get use to the light.

At the 14 day mark you should have

With this you can also take them any size you want and I am talking a branch if you want to. Here is a fairly good size one in a plug I was talking about earlier


Oh yeah I just cut hole in the top cover with plastic and stick some floros on top or if it gets hot put a couple 2x4's under em so air can flow under them.

Enjoy

One more thing you can use it to raise the little ones till you have room if needed


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/02/10
Posts: 503
Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Magash]
    #537636 - 03/17/11 10:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have heard that clones need 24 hours of light. I have also heard that clones need to be on the same schedule as their mom. Which is the method that works best for you?


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #537649 - 03/17/11 11:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I keep em on a 18/6 like the vegging plants but to be honest both ways will work fine and to be honest I don't think either one is better then the other.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/02/10
Posts: 503
Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #537652 - 03/18/11 12:07 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
If you really wanna cheat just buy (or build) an aerocloner. It's almost a joke how easy those are.




This thing?



One of my friends brought this. They have grown veggies in it with success. I said that it looks like it's missing pieces on top. Do you think we may have success sticking rapid rooter plugs or rockwool in this thing?


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Offlineimpgl

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 1,666
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #537662 - 03/18/11 12:55 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

watering is easy. i use KLN in a water gallon jug and just water em i guess i could make a video or something


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #537666 - 03/18/11 01:02 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

No, you'll want to buy neoprene inserts so that you can have the bare stem hanging in the mist. Should be nothing in there but pH'd water and Cloning hormones (roottech or Clonex work the best in my experience).



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Offlinethe man

Registered: 04/20/08
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #537682 - 03/18/11 03:05 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

no those aero gardens are so much money and i dont think there designed to be able to remove plants once rooted. dont over think it

soak rockwool over night in water with a few drops of hydrogen peroxide. trim leaves like said. hard to do first time but doesnt take much leaves to grow. keep humid do not let them sit in still water. cut at angle with a RAZOR (sharp is very key)on decently woody side branches put in water with a few drops of peroxide then dip in your rooting hormone a couple times a cm and a half deep, insert to rockwool. Mist them a couple times a day again with a few drops of peroxide per 800 ml of water


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: the man]
    #537701 - 03/18/11 04:50 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

the man said:
no those aero gardens are so much money and i dont think there designed to be able to remove plants once rooted. dont over think it

soak rockwool over night in water with a few drops of hydrogen peroxide. trim leaves like said. hard to do first time but doesnt take much leaves to grow. keep humid do not let them sit in still water. cut at angle with a RAZOR (sharp is very key)on decently woody side branches put in water with a few drops of peroxide then dip in your rooting hormone a couple times a cm and a half deep, insert to rockwool. Mist them a couple times a day again with a few drops of peroxide per 800 ml of water





a) she already has it. Price is obviously not a concern at this point.
b) the holes are the exact same size as an aerocloner, so removing rooted clones will be exactly the same.

I'd say try some in each, see what works best :shrug:


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OfflineBigBudz
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #537712 - 03/18/11 06:04 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry I didn't read the method but I find this to be the best method if you use soil.
Make a mix of 50% fox farms ocean forest 25% coco and 25% perelite or verm.
Take some good sized clones, cut a 45 degree angle, and then dip em in rooting gel.

For hydro, it's the same process except use just coco pellets or something like that.
I used to use rockwool, but it gets infected with mold quite easily compared to coco.

Make sure to not use a humidity dome in humid environments. I highly recommend against a humidity dome in general. This forces the plant to root faster, to take up nutrients from the root and not the leaves.

Or you can use an aero cloner for straight hydro as well. No negatives to that either.


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Art Music Music 2 Music 3

You are most likely being mind controlled if you live in the USA. The technology was discovered back in the late 1980's. You can easily see weird towers on government buildings...
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/sparkoflife.htm#mindcontrol


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OfflineTank333
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: BigBudz]
    #537716 - 03/18/11 06:18 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BigBudz said:
I highly recommend against a humidity dome in general. This forces the plant to root faster, to take up nutrients from the root and not the leaves.





Um, excuse me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the point of cloning? To produce roots as quickly as possible??


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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/02/10
Posts: 503
Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Tank333]
    #537767 - 03/18/11 09:34 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Bigbudz periodically stops in to give us all a laugh.

:cool:


Edited by Pandor (03/18/11 09:43 AM)


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: BigBudz]
    #537768 - 03/18/11 09:35 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I used to use rockwool, but it gets infected with mold quite easily compared to coco.


On rockwool?


Quote:

Make sure to not use a humidity dome in humid environments. I highly recommend against a humidity dome in general. This forces the plant to root faster, to take up nutrients from the root and not the leaves.


In theory it sound like this would be true but in real life times for rooting under domes or in in humid environments are just as fast as any other method.



--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineBigBudz
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #537776 - 03/18/11 12:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pandor said:
Bigbudz periodically stops in to give us all a laugh.

:cool:




Dude my rockwool cubes get covered in mold with a humidity dome. Soil weed grow man. Seriously my clones used to like domes a couple years ago, but now they just like soil or coco. It only takes 2-3 weeks for clones in soil. Man soon I'm going have hundreds of clones to sell extras to the club down the street on commission.

I just need a couple more mothers. Everyone likes soil in the Bay; only posers grow in hydro these days. Hydro tastes like shit compared to soil and everyone in the Bay is a premium smoker. Hydro shit doesn't pass the test here man.


--------------------
Art Music Music 2 Music 3

You are most likely being mind controlled if you live in the USA. The technology was discovered back in the late 1980's. You can easily see weird towers on government buildings...
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/sparkoflife.htm#mindcontrol


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: BigBudz]
    #537784 - 03/18/11 03:11 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, do you?


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: coda]
    #537787 - 03/18/11 03:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I just need a couple more mothers. Everyone likes soil in the Bay; only posers grow in hydro these days. Hydro tastes like shit compared to soil and everyone in the Bay is a premium smoker. Hydro shit doesn't pass the test here man.




I'm in the bay also and have been dealing with the clubs in the area for over 10 years and this statement is completely untrue.


Here is a copy of a post I did over a year and a half ago. I did this in the Bay Area

Ok, I have been growing since the mid 80’s and the entire time I’ve heard how organic bud is better tasting and such. I always felt that this was true just cause when you listen to why it is suppose to be better then buds grown with synthetics or chemical nutrients it seems to make sense. Then I saw this show called bullshit with Penn and Teller and the subject was organic food. I saw the test that they did and I just had to do em with buds.
Well the test was done at 3 different clubs and with a group of growers in Mendocino County. The strain used was Granddaddy Purple.
People were allowed to try free samples of organic grown and buds grown with General Hydroponics nutrients. Flora Nova and Kool Blooms.
Now the samples
2 plates of buds with labels showing but the buds switched. Organic buds in the hydro plate and hydro buds in the organic plate. 2 plates with no labels and the buds were in the right plate. Then for fun (he he he ) two sets of plates one with organic buds in both plates and one with hydro buds in both plates.

The results.
Buds in the right plate but no labels showing  73% of people picked the hydro buds as better tasting and smoking buds.

Buds in the plates with the labels showing but with the buds switched 87% picked the organic side with the hydro buds in the plate. (Even so far as going and saying they can taste the soil then getting very pissed when shown the bud they picked)

Then the same buds divided into two and put into labeled plates. So what I mean here is buds from the same plant put into two plates with different labels to see if anybody would notice. In both sets of plates 87% of people again picked the Organic as better tasting in both sets even though it was the same bud divided into two plates. I heard comments on how the organic tasted “earthy, cleaner, less salty, and one who insisted that the organic buds burnt better then got pissed when told he picked hydro in every instance.

The only people who picked right were people who didn't care if grown organic or grown with raid ant killer as long as they got a free sample.


Both sets of buds were flushed for one week before harvesting.

Conclusion is that properly grown hydro buds seems to be as good in every way as organic buds.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Magash]
    #537788 - 03/18/11 03:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

In other words nobody on the planet can tell the difference between hydro and soil grown buds when both are grown right. Simple as that.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Magash]
    #537816 - 03/18/11 05:45 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

For Pandor I wanted to clarify briefly what we mean when we say trim the leaves. Here are some before and after shots I took a year and a half ago when cloning in rockwool.



Had roots poking through the cube on that girl in just around a week flat.


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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/02/10
Posts: 503
Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #537852 - 03/18/11 09:06 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for those pics, Harry.

I think I was cutting too many leaves off and not trimming the ones that were left behind.

We got the inserts for the aerocloner. Probably going to give that a shot in the next few days.


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Offlinethe man

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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #537905 - 03/19/11 12:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

also do you trim up the leaves a day or 2 before you take the cut? gives them time to heal up


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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/02/10
Posts: 503
Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #545125 - 04/11/11 07:00 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
No, you'll want to buy neoprene inserts so that you can have the bare stem hanging in the mist. Should be nothing in there but pH'd water and Cloning hormones (roottech or Clonex work the best in my experience).






Thanks for recommending to use that thing and for telling me about the inserts I needed. Most of my new clones in the aerocloner look like the one in your picture now.

The rockwool ones still have a chance they look OK, but not as great as the ones in the aerocloner.

Any advice on taking them out of the aerocloner? I want to put them in coco.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #545182 - 04/11/11 09:29 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

No problem, I had a feeling that might be just the ticket for you :thumbup:

Just pull out the neoprene insert with the plant still in it, and then carefully open up the slit in the neoprene disc and slide the plant out. It'll take you a couple tries to get the hang of this (I had a hard time with my first 3 or so) but once you get the motion down it's extremely easy.

As for planting them, just basically plant them like you would do a transplant. Fill your pot up with coco most of the way so that when you set the clone in it sticks up as high out of the pot as you want it. Hold the stem to keep the plant upright and centered with one hand while you use the other hand to fill in the rest of the pot so that the new clone roots are buried. I usually water them right then with full strength nutrients (in coco or hempy's) plus a little superthrive and about 2-3ml/gallon of Roots Excelurator.


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OfflineHempMaster
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #545263 - 04/11/11 09:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

If you can afford it, get an ezcloner, they are expensive, m7 60 siter cost $350 but i get full roots in 8 days. My buddy just got a Mystic cloner from Stealth Hydroponics and it works almost aswell it takes him 11 days to fully root a clone and it only cost $80 for an 18 site machine....

check them out:
mystic cloner-
http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=407&xSec=22&jssCart=3d504fbbd48c3c673e81264f3ccc4cae

Ezcloner-http://www.progressive-growth.com/proddetail.php?prod=24019


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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/02/10
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: HempMaster]
    #545492 - 04/12/11 07:25 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think with the rockwool, I made the opposite mistake I made last time.
The cubes never dried out, but I think I should have opened the holes and let air in sooner. If you lift the cubes up, you cant see any roots yet.
One plant looked sick and I removed it, but this other one has something that can't be good on it's stem. White dots which I am guessing is mold. I took the domes off, not sure if that was the right decision.



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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Registered: 04/20/08
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #545524 - 04/12/11 09:01 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

those dots are soon-to-be-roots.


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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/02/10
Posts: 503
Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #545561 - 04/12/11 07:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

lol at the noob

i was ready to throw it away

:blush:


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OfflineDungenessDank
Lord of the Flies


Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 9,372
Loc: PNW
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Re: advice on cloning techniques [Re: Pandor]
    #545564 - 04/12/11 07:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

:lol: Good thing harry stepped in.


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