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OfflineKief
Tomato Cage Fighter


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 36
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Necrosis diagnosis?
    #650095 - 12/08/12 03:38 PM (4 years, 7 hours ago)

Here are a couple pictures of two different kinds of necrotic patch.  The first is only on the bubblegum kush on about the lower 1/3rd of the plant, the second has appeared on two different plants on the very old leaves:


My journal can be found here.
All plants are generally getting the same treatment.  Is this nute burn or lockout?  I do not measure ppm/ec/tds/pH... I know...
Does anyone have experience with what this might be?  Thanks!


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 13,294
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Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Kief]
    #650096 - 12/08/12 04:03 PM (4 years, 7 hours ago)

I don't get why people don't see this at the top of the page.  But anyways.

Need you to fill this out.  Also would like some pictures of the whole plant.

On top of these questions.  Is it starting at the top or bottom of the plant?


Soil Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones?
2. How old are your plants?
3. How tall are your plants?
4. What size containers are they planted in?
5. What is your soil mix?
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use?
7. What is the pH of your water?
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio?
9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything?
10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights")
11. How close are your lights to the plants?
12. What size is your grow space in square feet?
13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?
14. What is the pH of the soil?
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
16. How much experience do you have growing?


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineKief
Tomato Cage Fighter


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 36
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #650101 - 12/08/12 04:21 PM (4 years, 6 hours ago)

All of that information that isn't in the post is provided in my growlog, which is linked in the above post for brevity.

:seriousthumbsup:


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 13,294
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Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Kief]
    #650103 - 12/08/12 04:26 PM (4 years, 6 hours ago)

Yes, but as someone who is trying to help you, and with all the posts I get about this type of thing.  A crap load of my time would be taken up reading through people grow logs to get the information I need to HELP YOU. 


We don't want brevity in this forum, when asking for help, we need as much information as possible.  Without have to dig it out from somewhere else.  Hence the questionnaire at the top.  There is a method to our madness.



--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineKief
Tomato Cage Fighter


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 36
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #650211 - 12/09/12 03:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Fair enough!
Here it is:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones?
Seed
2. How old are your plants?
4 weeks
3. How tall are your plants?
10-12"
4. What size containers are they planted in?
2-3 gal
5. What is your soil mix?
coco 80 perlite 15 verm 5
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use?
When pots are dry by weight.  RO.
7. What is the pH of your water?
Unknown
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio?
Botanicare pro grow 10-20mL/4L, liquid karma 10mL/4L, CaMg+ 5-10mL/4L/feed (depending on growth stage/strain req's)
9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything?
no.
10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights")
600W MH
11. How close are your lights to the plants?
16-20"
12. What size is your grow space in square feet?
16 sq. ft.
13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?
75-85F, 30-40% RH
14. What is the pH of the soil?
Unknown
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
No
16. How much experience do you have growing?
3 previous grows

The necrosis depicted in that first pic is actually only on the leaf sets on the very middle of the plant, not on the older or newer growth.  the second kind of necrosis is on the very old leaves on really just one of the plants.  It is rapidly progressing towards the newer growth at this point and soil dryness seems to correlate with an increase in the severity of symptoms.


Edited by Kief (12/09/12 03:52 AM)


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OfflineNameInUse
Strange
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Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 355
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Kief]
    #650219 - 12/09/12 10:10 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Are you using an ozone generator?


--------------------
But then an even greater force emerged: The un! And the un un-nazi'd the world! Forever!


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OfflineKief
Tomato Cage Fighter


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 36
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: NameInUse]
    #650231 - 12/09/12 01:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

NameInUse said:
Are you using an ozone generator?




Nope.


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OfflineKief
Tomato Cage Fighter


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 36
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Kief]
    #650246 - 12/09/12 03:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Here are some more pictures of the affected plants/leaves:


This is becoming more and more of a problem and is affecting younger and younger leaves.  Some plants are looking a little saturated so I think the N is a little high for some of these girls too but what is the real problem here?

Anyone?


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 13,294
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Kief]
    #650253 - 12/09/12 04:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kief said:
Fair enough!
Here it is:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones?
Seed
2. How old are your plants?
4 weeks
3. How tall are your plants?
10-12"
4. What size containers are they planted in?
2-3 gal
5. What is your soil mix?
coco 80 perlite 15 verm 5
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use?
When pots are dry by weight.  RO.
7. What is the pH of your water?
Unknown

8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio?
Botanicare pro grow 10-20mL/4L, liquid karma 10mL/4L, CaMg+ 5-10mL/4L/feed (depending on growth stage/strain req's)

9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything?
no.
10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights")
600W MH
11. How close are your lights to the plants?
16-20"
12. What size is your grow space in square feet?
16 sq. ft.
13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?
75-85F, 30-40% RH
14. What is the pH of the soil?
Unknown
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
No
16. How much experience do you have growing?
3 previous grows

The necrosis depicted in that first pic is actually only on the leaf sets on the very middle of the plant, not on the older or newer growth.  the second kind of necrosis is on the very old leaves on really just one of the plants.  It is rapidly progressing towards the newer growth at this point and soil dryness seems to correlate with an increase in the severity of symptoms.






Pretty sure we just found your problem.  If you want to choose to do a soilless grow, it is imperative that you're knowing what the pH and PPM of the solution your feeding is. 


I also think you may be over feeding them at this point.  10-20 mls per gallon is a good amount.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineKief
Tomato Cage Fighter


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 36
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #650257 - 12/09/12 04:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thank hawksapprentice.  I figured since I was using RO water and the recommended amounts of additives on the bottles that I would at least be in an appropriate, if not ideal pH range.  Guess not.  I should never trust these hydro shop owners they're always telling me different things.

Where do I go from here?  Flush with pH adjusted water and then commence monitored feedings in a week?


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 13,294
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Kief]
    #650260 - 12/09/12 04:29 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

NEVER trust hydro shop people. 


Flush wit PH water, Then apply a balanced nutrient dose, since you're using botanicaire I go around 3-400 ppm to start.  Make sure the pH is about 5.8


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineKief
Tomato Cage Fighter


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 36
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #650263 - 12/09/12 04:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Good to know at least what it is... Well I guess I need a hundred dollar pH/ec meter and some pH up and down then?

As a side note, I would think that the RO water that comes out of most home filters would be of a standard enough composition that a buffer/mineral mix could be designed with relative ease to bring the levels to an acceptable range for our purposes.  Is there anything like this?


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 13,294
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Kief]
    #650265 - 12/09/12 05:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah it'd be best to spend the extra money on a combo pH ec or ppm meter.  I use ppm because it makes more sense in my head.


I'm not sure what you mean by the second statement.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineKief
Tomato Cage Fighter


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 36
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #650270 - 12/09/12 05:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Just like a phosphate buffer with Ca/Mg/S/Mn/etc. minerals added to bring pure water up to the optimal pH value/mineral requirements for plants.


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Posts: 13,294
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Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Kief]
    #650272 - 12/09/12 05:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Well if your using botainicare, we already have all these products available. 


Get their grow, liquid karma, ca/mag+.  That's will have everything you need.  Also sweet is one that is a must add in my opinion.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineKief
Tomato Cage Fighter


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 36
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #650273 - 12/09/12 05:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah I'm using those, except I'm using GH's Ca/Mg+ which has no nitrogen and which is a source of carbs as well.  I just figured that there would be some kind of buffering capacity in at least one of these products (why there isn't in Ca/Mg+ is a mystery to me).


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 13,294
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Re: Necrosis diagnosis? [Re: Kief]
    #650285 - 12/09/12 07:42 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Just so ya know, they don't claim anything on their site about it being a carb booster.  If you are going to go with Botainicaire I would use all their line together.


And no, none of these have keep your pH in check.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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