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Offlinebam
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Fundamental questions to setup grow op.
    #578510 - 08/15/11 02:34 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Let me start by saying this is something I wan to get into but have not done yet obviously. I'm trying to plan this out to the best of my abiliy hoping to avoid any unessasary mishaps. Proper planing is key. That's were you veterans come in.  I have been watching this forum and researching quite a bit but still need help. So hope u can. 

1.
Basically I wanna know how much electricity I can use in a house?  I know people say pay your bill it'll be ok etc. But I'd like some specifics if that's ok so I can make my own judgement. 
Like how many square ft your home is how many levels and wether or not u live in the house number of bedrooms.

I plan on using 600 watt dual lunatic ballast and 8 bulb t5 for veg and clones.
I was hoping if didn't live in the house.  I could use 3 of those dual ballast each covering about 3x3 ft.  How much space could a single 600 watt cover if it was on a light mover ( perhaps twice as much space 6x3?)

I'm going to be using. The SOG method to grow,  3x3 ft 4 plants a sqft. 72 a tray ebb an flow 144 for wax dual light.  Hoping for harvest times around 60 days. And atleast a 7 gram average a plant. Thatll be 144*7=1008.  Per dual 600 watt. Does that sound reasonable.  Also about my electricity question u think 3 dual 600 watt ballast and two or three t5s 6 pumps is to much plus fans.  Or would I be better off on light movers with only 4 600 watt bulbs

Will also be experimenting on using different variations of the sog method. ( as didn't really get the answers I was looking for on my sog thread so feel free to look at it. ) I'll be experimenting using lst techniques in which the plants are grown longer in veg under t5s and are grown in a circle on a square ft of chicken wire  so its 1 plant in the sqft but still covering 1 ft of screen.  Also wanna try double topping or fim.  All three from the same clones so I can see which produces better.  Since I didn't get a answer I'll give 1.


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Offlinebam
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578526 - 08/15/11 04:28 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Ok still nuthin gthe pros must still be in there gardens


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Offlinebam
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578528 - 08/15/11 04:48 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

im just joking anyway just curious about anybody setup what they got going safely and with out suspision. even if its just a thousand watts what kinda area they in what kinda setup and avg yeild.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam] * 1
    #578534 - 08/15/11 05:02 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bam said:
Let me start by saying this is something I wan to get into but have not done yet obviously. I'm trying to plan this out to the best of my abiliy hoping to avoid any unessasary mishaps. Proper planing is key. That's were you veterans come in.  I have been watching this forum and researching quite a bit but still need help. So hope u can. 

1.
Basically I wanna know how much electricity I can use in a house?  I know people say pay your bill it'll be ok etc. But I'd like some specifics if that's ok so I can make my own judgement. 
Like how many square ft your home is how many levels and wether or not u live in the house number of bedrooms.

I plan on using 600 watt dual lunatic ballast and 8 bulb t5 for veg and clones.
I was hoping if didn't live in the house.  I could use 3 of those dual ballast each covering about 3x3 ft.  How much space could a single 600 watt cover if it was on a light mover ( perhaps twice as much space 6x3?)

I'm going to be using. The SOG method to grow,  3x3 ft 4 plants a sqft. 72 a tray ebb an flow 144 for wax dual light.  Hoping for harvest times around 60 days. And atleast a 7 gram average a plant. Thatll be 144*7=1008.  Per dual 600 watt. Does that sound reasonable.  Also about my electricity question u think 3 dual 600 watt ballast and two or three t5s 6 pumps is to much plus fans.  Or would I be better off on light movers with only 4 600 watt bulbs

Will also be experimenting on using different variations of the sog method. ( as didn't really get the answers I was looking for on my sog thread so feel free to look at it. ) I'll be experimenting using lst techniques in which the plants are grown longer in veg under t5s and are grown in a circle on a square ft of chicken wire  so its 1 plant in the sqft but still covering 1 ft of screen.  Also wanna try double topping or fim.  All three from the same clones so I can see which produces better.  Since I didn't get a answer I'll give 1.




OK that's a lot of questions but let's work down the list here, nice and slow. 

You can use as much as you want. Your dryer probably uses 6KW or more so a couple thousand watts from lights is beans. Plus the power companies just want money, they don't give a fuck what you do with the power after it's paid for.

3x3 or 4x4 is the most I would do with a 600W. Light movers are retarded, if you double the space the light is covering, the plants are only getting half as much light per day, regardless of if the light is on a rail. That's just common sense.

Totaling your grow harvests before you've even built the room is also retarded (no offense, but seriously).  Have you ever grown before? If not, then count on a significant learning curve, and plan on your first harvest being nowhere near 1008grams, plan on about 500g of medium quality. By your second or third try you'll be harvesting near your goals and the quality will be good (btw, I think 1008g is a little unreasonable but it can be done with the right strain and if your setup is dialed in.

A combination of topping and training is the best. Fim is useless, don't even bother, doesn't produce better results than topping and it's way harder. Top the plants and bend them so the lower branches catch up to the top.


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578542 - 08/15/11 05:12 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Live in a 1 bedroom place. Electic runs less than $150, 2, 1000 watt hps light. Plus fan for air cooled lights and 2 fans for air circulation.Plus a little a/c.

Thats not in this heat wave.


Someone else will know more about your T5's and area.


I grow SOG, will try something different a little later.
Keep up the experimenting. I've done alot.


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.


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OfflineSmokinErb
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578543 - 08/15/11 05:13 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, let's see where to begin here.

First of all, a 600w is fine in a 3x3, but I'd personally cover a 4x4 with it.  As far as a light mover goes, using my suggested 4x4 per 600, I wouldn't cover more than a 4x6 with a 600w on a mover.  If I recall right, I believe 50% more space is the recommended amount.  Could be wrong on that.

Here's my question for you - if you're only wanting to run 3 ballasts and a veg light - why would you not want to live in the house?  That's enough light to veg in a closet and flower in an extra bedroom?

Anyway, with only 1800w flowering and roughly 450w for veg, you hardly need to worry about electricity.  What you WILL have to do is wire up a new circuit into the grow room.  A standard circuit is 15a - of which you only want to use about 12a.  Your lights alone (on a 120v circuit) will be about 19a. That's not including the fans, AC unit, whatever else you're running.  You'll need to rewire the circuit with a 30a breaker or just add an additional 15a breaker dedicated to the grow room.

Realistically, you're trying to do too much for a first-time grow, and it'll most likely not end up the way you want it too.  I'd suggest just grabbing a single ballast, and seeing if you even enjoy the hobby. 

1008 grams is just over a kilo.  That's 2.2 lbs.  2.2 lbs is not happening from a 600w lamp.  10 zips per light would be a more reasonable expectation. 

Your perceptions of SOG are flawed. You don't train, top, or FIM a plant grown in SOG style.  The only thing you cut off are the side branches, and grow out the main cola only.


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OfflineSmokinErb
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #578546 - 08/15/11 05:16 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Quote:

bam said:
A combination of topping and training is the best. Fim is useless, don't even bother, doesn't produce better results than topping and it's way harder. Top the plants and bend them so the lower branches catch up to the top.







He says he wants to grow SOG with 4 plants per sqft.  I've grown a SOG where I topped the plants ONCE after the first node to get 2 main colas, but I can't see topping them again without seriously overcrowding the cab.


Edited by SmokinErb (08/15/11 05:17 PM)


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #578547 - 08/15/11 05:20 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SmokinErb said:

Realistically, you're trying to do too much for a first-time grow, and it'll most likely not end up the way you want it too.  I'd suggest just grabbing a single ballast, and seeing if you even enjoy the hobby. 

1008 grams is just over a kilo.  That's 2.2 lbs.  2.2 lbs is not happening from a 600w lamp.  10 zips per light would be a more reasonable expectation. 





He said 1008 grams from BOTH 600w lights combined. Which definitely CAN be done, but only be experienced growers with a very heavy yielding strain.


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Offlinebam
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #578551 - 08/15/11 05:26 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

The ballast are dual ballast drawing 5.5 amps and powering 2 600 watt bulbs apiece.

Thanks for the info on the area it can cover.

I am going to definetly do the SOG and understand what it is, 4 plants a sqft, one main cola got it.
Going to experiment with topping the plant also with LST for the plant with 1 per sqft.

mighta been some confusion there.

Dont wanna live in the house so i can use more electricity. (done some breaker work before not worried about the breakers long as i dont go over 120 amps i think.

Also guys helping apreciate it but could u also voice how much light you are using etc.


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Offlinebam
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: KaptKid]
    #578555 - 08/15/11 05:31 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

thx u for your response have you tried anything new in your SOG beside traditional 1 colas?


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Offlinebam
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #578556 - 08/15/11 05:34 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

it would be 3600watts btw and i dont wanna live there so i dont add unnessasary watts?


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OfflineSmokinErb
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578559 - 08/15/11 05:47 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

My entertainment system is over 3600w.  Honestly, until you hit about 25,000w, you don't have much to worry about.  A grow house would typically be 20,000w or more.  I had a 16,000w op in my basement at one point - while living there. 

My bad on the misunderstanding about the ballasts.  So it's essentially a 600w ballast with a built-in relay?  Or do the bulbs actually run at the same time?  Not really related to your questions, just curious.

I suppose 1.1lb  per 600w is possible - but as mentioned above it would definitely take some dialing-in.  Right strain, right pheno, right nutrient plan... right everything, basically.  I typically grow sativa's, so my yields tend to be a lot less than predominately indica growers.


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Offlinebam
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #578562 - 08/15/11 06:01 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

No problem. They are dual 600 watt ballast. Meaning each ballast draws 5.5 amps and powers two 600 watt hps bulbs at the same time. 3 of those runnin is about 3600 watt plus a 400 watt and two t5 for clones.  Should I cycle the lights in the flowering rm to not make it look as if Im using all that electricity for 12 hrs a day every day?


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Offlinebam
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578563 - 08/15/11 06:10 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

That's a goal not what I'm betting on as far as the thousand grams also I haven't grown but take numbers like that yeikd straight from u guys and thought in sog 7 grams a plant was average for u guys in general.

I see a mistake in calculations on my part.

3x3 =9sqft x 4= 36 plant per light. So 72 for duals and that's 504 at 7 grams a plant
4x4=16sqft x 4=64.  And 128 for duals.  Say 5 grams a piece should still yield 640. Damn near a p and a half per duals.  4.5 ones for three duals at  2 month harvesttimes.


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OfflineSmokinErb
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578566 - 08/15/11 07:17 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I'm going to continue to suggest the 4x4 for the 600w.  Let me give an example:

A few years ago I was running a 4x4 tent for some personal stash.  I initially went with a 1000w set-up and it worked just fine.  However, after doing some research and talking to Tom Hill over on ICMag, I decided to opt for a 600w in the same tent.  With clones taken from the same mother plant, I yielded 39 grams less than the 1000w bulb.

400w extra for 39 grams... not worth it - I'd rather build a new cab and stick a 400w in there and yield another 1/2 lb for the same electric costs. 

Tom Hill runs a 8'x8' tent with a single 1000w lamp and has excellent results. 

Basically what I'm saying is - there IS no such thing as too much light (to an extent) however, there is what I like to call the "point of diminished returns."  You can realistically only get so much bud in any given area.  Even if you successfully run a 1000w in a 2x2, you're not going to yield much more than a 400w would.

People destroy their gram per watt by putting too much light in certain areas.  This is the guideline I like to follow (many will disagree):

150/175w - Up to 2x2
250w - 2x2 - 3x3
400w - 3x3 - 4x4
600w - 4x4 - 5x5
1000w - 6x6 - 8x8


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Offlinebam
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578709 - 08/16/11 10:37 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

in a forum of 1000's 3 people come on guys i need you  bump


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OfflineSmokinErb
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578725 - 08/16/11 12:44 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

After doing a little research on the ballasts you're interested in - I haven't found one that runs on 120v. 

This means you'll need to wire up a 240v circuit along with all of the necessary receptacles.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578803 - 08/16/11 07:33 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

you need to be patient, many of us here work day jobs, sometimes two.


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Offlinebam
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #578859 - 08/16/11 10:46 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Gotta electrician on the team and know a lil bit myself not worried about whether it uses 120 or 240 and would actually prefer to use 240 v for several reasons.

and realize you got other stuff to do besides sit on this message bored all day. and appreciate you taking the time to answer questions.

Didnt mean to be rude could just really use you guys advice and there is so much published that its hard to decipher whats still valid and what has been proven wrong and on top of that what i normally read is not directed at my exact situation like these questions are. I thank you guys for stopping to check the post it just seems like id have more of a response and people opinions.  Also wanted to bump my post so it doesn't end up on the bottom of the list or the next page where im sure it would not be getting even this many views


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Offlinebam
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Re: Fundamental questions to setup grow op. [Re: bam]
    #578967 - 08/17/11 12:45 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

bump


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