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OfflineMr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Prop 19
    #490272 - 10/22/10 01:04 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Some questions for you:

1.  What does a pound of dank cost in Northern California right now?

2.  What does a pound of dank cost in Southern California right now?

3.  If Prop 19 is passed, what will a pound of dank cost?

4.  How is California (or the Feds) going to try stop all of the interstate smuggling that will inevitably emanate from California if Prop 19 is passed?

5.  Will the Feds fight California (withhold highway funds, etc..)?  If so, what will they do and how drastic will it be?

6.  Are the medical dispensaries going to go out of business?

7.  Are the cartels who grow in the national forests going to stop doing so?


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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,393
Re: Prop 19 [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #490281 - 10/22/10 01:18 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mr. Hands said:
Some questions for you:

1.  What does a pound of dank cost in Northern California right now?

2.  What does a pound of dank cost in Southern California right now?

3.  If Prop 19 is passed, what will a pound of dank cost?




Doesn't matter.

Prices will be forced to go down once a free weed market is established.

Quote:

4.  How is California (or the Feds) going to try stop all of the interstate smuggling that will inevitably emanate from California if Prop 19 is passed?

5.  Will the Feds fight California (withhold highway funds, etc..)?  If so, what will they do and how drastic will it be?




If Cali legalizes weed it will have a snowball effect with other states doing the same thing. The Federal government is going to be forced into accepting legal weed, or be threaten with civil war. There is simply too much money to be made from legal weed

Quote:

6.  Are the medical dispensaries going to go out of business?




I seriously doubt it. Their numbers may get reduced, but they will still be there.

Quote:

7.  Are the cartels who grow in the national forests going to stop doing so?




Depends on who has been buying that weed.


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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OfflineMr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: Prop 19 [Re: niteowl]
    #492733 - 10/28/10 03:19 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Prices will be forced to go down once a free weed market is established.




But, to what?  Will a pound of dank go down to $2000 a pound?  $1000 a pound?  And how will the state of California enforce taxation?  I am genuinely interested in the market forces behind it and how it will all play out.

Quote:

niteowl said:
If Cali legalizes weed it will have a snowball effect with other states doing the same thing. The Federal government is going to be forced into accepting legal weed, or be threaten with civil war. There is simply too much money to be made from legal weed




It might have an eventual snowball effect.  But, what about initially?  Will the Feds fight this in court or by withholding funds?  And, if the Feds can't fight it in court or with funding threats, what will they do?  Will they continue to bust businesses that have pot on the premises?  Or will it be so overwhelming that they won't even bother?  Or will they only bother with massive commercial ops (like the proposed Oakland greenhouse)?

Quote:

niteowl said:
I seriously doubt it (medical dispensaries going out of business). Their numbers may get reduced, but they will still be there.




How will they compete with people growing their own and it being sold in stores?

I'm actually shocked nobody is discussing this stuff.  All I see is stoners going, "Woo!  I'm going to Cali!".


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InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
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Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,496
Re: Prop 19 [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #492747 - 10/28/10 06:00 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

1. 2 to 4 grand

2. Depends, more then in Nor Cal though.

3. Around 1000 but it's gonna take a bit to get there.

4. Same way they are now. They won't change a thing.

5. Yes they will but how bad things will get with them only time is gonna tell. They will do something.

6. No, they will just become dispensaries for the 21 and over crowd. Weed will not be in stores until it goes federal.

7. No, there is still a ton of other states to ship it to. Charges for growing on federal land are going to go way up.



It's pretty unlikely that this will pass anyway. Even thought most of the state seems to want to pass it the ones who smoke don't go out and vote. Only 12% of the people that smoke are expected to make it to the voting booth.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: Prop 19 [Re: Magash]
    #492748 - 10/28/10 06:33 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
Only 12% of the people that smoke are expected to make it to the voting booth.



Interesting.  Is this supposedly due to apathy, laziness, or ignorance of Prop 19?


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OfflinePicklez
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 17,919
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Prop 19 [Re: God]
    #492822 - 10/28/10 01:32 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

God said:
Quote:

Magash said:
Only 12% of the people that smoke are expected to make it to the voting booth.



Interesting.  Is this supposedly due to apathy, laziness, or ignorance of Prop 19?




That is discouraging, I hope it passes just so we get a step in the right direction

Arizona has Prop 203 in a couple days for medical marijuana :thumbup:


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Invisiblestill beLIEve
State Property..Again
Male

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 17,167
Loc: a world thats not my own
Re: Prop 19 [Re: God]
    #492823 - 10/28/10 01:37 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

God said:
Quote:

Magash said:
Only 12% of the people that smoke are expected to make it to the voting booth.



Interesting.  Is this supposedly due to apathy, laziness, or ignorance of Prop 19?





i dunno i would think that for smokers, they would want to go out and support it and make it out at any cost.

maybe im underestimating the movement though. i figured it would be a hot topic and everyone would be all gung ho and there would be a sense of working towards a bigger goal and all that


--------------------
niteowl said:
See, that term pedo gets thrown around a lot.
Is a 16 year old guy having sex w/a 16 year old girl a pedophile?
If not, then how is a 30 year old considered a pedophile for doing the same thing?
I think y'all need to look up the definition for pedophile.


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InvisibleCid_Lives
Shhhhh
Male

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 216
Re: Prop 19 [Re: still beLIEve]
    #492829 - 10/28/10 02:47 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

still beLIEve said:
Quote:

God said:
Quote:

Magash said:
Only 12% of the people that smoke are expected to make it to the voting booth.



Interesting.  Is this supposedly due to apathy, laziness, or ignorance of Prop 19?





i dunno i would think that for smokers, they would want to go out and support it and make it out at any cost.

maybe im underestimating the movement though. i figured it would be a hot topic and everyone would be all gung ho and there would be a sense of working towards a bigger goal and all that



I would like to think that there would be a larger turnout of stoners in light of the possibilities. This is a pretty epic possible turn of events.

Magash, where are you getting these percentages from?


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InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,496
Re: Prop 19 [Re: Cid_Lives] * 1
    #492869 - 10/28/10 04:56 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magash, where are you getting these percentages from?




Just about every news organization covering the elections in Nov.


Even when Obama was elected only 56% of registered voters voted in that election.

Took forever for the medical weed thing to finally pass. I'm hoping that it motivates people to go out and vote for it and not motivate the people against drugs to vote against it. Remember if it doesn't pass it's gonna slow down the medical weed movement at the same time. The anti weed people will throw the loss of prop 19 up every time something medical comes up for election from that point on.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisibleCid_Lives
Shhhhh
Male

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 216
Re: Prop 19 [Re: Magash]
    #492872 - 10/28/10 05:08 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

It's a gamble for sure, but at least it's on the table.:shrug:


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OfflineTHEBats
The Bridge Master
Male


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Prop 19 [Re: Magash]
    #492900 - 10/28/10 07:05 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
Quote:

Magash, where are you getting these percentages from?




Just about every news organization covering the elections in Nov.


Even when Obama was elected only 56% of registered voters voted in that election.

Took forever for the medical weed thing to finally pass. I'm hoping that it motivates people to go out and vote for it and not motivate the people against drugs to vote against it. Remember if it doesn't pass it's gonna slow down the medical weed movement at the same time. The anti weed people will throw the loss of prop 19 up every time something medical comes up for election from that point on.




Depending how they conducted their polls their numbers could be quite distorted.


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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InvisibleShr0000ooooms
Cannabis Sampler


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3,870
Loc: Hindu Kush Mountains
Re: Prop 19 [Re: Picklez]
    #492912 - 10/28/10 08:25 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
Only 12% of the people that smoke are expected to make it to the voting booth.




This may be because they were counting the nation's population and not the states.


--------------------
If I'm posting I'm high.


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
Dreams of Oceans
Male

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 588
Re: Prop 19 [Re: God]
    #492925 - 10/28/10 08:57 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

God said:
Quote:

Magash said:
Only 12% of the people that smoke are expected to make it to the voting booth.



Interesting.  Is this supposedly due to apathy, laziness, or ignorance of Prop 19?




You would have to be deaf and blind to live in California and not know about Prop 19.  The real answer is with apathy, laziness, and similar personal issues with individual voters.  This is not unique to cannabis consumers; albeit, it may be more exaggerated within the demographic.  Most elections and voting suffer from a lack of participation.


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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InvisibleCloud9
i don't feel, and it feels great


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/27/10
Posts: 79
Loc: between here and there
Re: Prop 19 [Re: CrayolaHalls]
    #493199 - 10/29/10 03:31 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

12% could just be preliminary polling, of which i and everyone i know doesn't care to partake in, but we always go out and vote on election day, especially for something like this. people have waited too long, and it's too important not to.


--------------------
experienced psychotryptonaut shaman


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OfflineNizzyJones
Fight Evil with Funk
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Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 371
Loc: Somewhat North of Normal
Last seen: 9 hours, 41 minutes
Re: Prop 19 [Re: Magash]
    #493435 - 10/30/10 11:19 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
Quote:

Magash, where are you getting these percentages from?




Just about every news organization covering the elections in Nov.


Even when Obama was elected only 56% of registered voters voted in that election.

Took forever for the medical weed thing to finally pass. I'm hoping that it motivates people to go out and vote for it and not motivate the people against drugs to vote against it. Remember if it doesn't pass it's gonna slow down the medical weed movement at the same time. The anti weed people will throw the loss of prop 19 up every time something medical comes up for election from that point on.




The polls have it running at basically 50/50 support/oppose using their 'likely voters' models. And most of those polls are conducted via landline telephones which have a strong bias toward the over-fifty crowd. One pollster found that by conducting two side-by-side polls, one with real people asking questions and one using automated polling, the poll using automated questioning resulted in about an 8% up-swing in support (to more than a MOE above 50%). The conventional wisdom is that the motivated Republican base would mostly oppose this but there's a strong vein of Libertarianism going around right now especially among moderate fiscal conservatives so there's no real good way to predict which way the right is going to come down on this.

Long story short: I don't think there's any way to predict this accurately and suspect that support is greater than the polls and conventional wisdom would imply.

Edit: Also don't forget there are medical referendums on the ballot in Arizona, South Dakota and Oregon.


Edited by NizzyJones (10/30/10 11:32 AM)


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,037
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
Re: Prop 19 [Re: NizzyJones]
    #493440 - 10/30/10 11:31 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

i saw an ad today against one of the candidates for governor here.  She's a former republican DA, so of course she's against pot.  it was an ad saying that she'd take away our medical marijuana so we need to keep her out of the office.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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OfflineNizzyJones
Fight Evil with Funk
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Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 371
Loc: Somewhat North of Normal
Last seen: 9 hours, 41 minutes
Re: Prop 19 [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #493456 - 10/30/10 12:12 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Also on the note of Federal supremacy in this area: There's a section of the Controlled Substances Act that may be relevant. I forget where I was reading about it but I've just looked up the citation in the current code and found the ACLU's press release about it.

Title 21 USC Sec. 903:
Quote:

No provision of this subchapter shall be construed as indicating
    an intent on the part of the Congress to occupy the field in which
    that provision operates, including criminal penalties, to the
    exclusion of any State law on the same subject matter which would
    otherwise be within the authority of the State, unless there is a
    positive conflict between that provision of this subchapter and
    that State law so that the two cannot consistently stand together.




The ACLU takes the position that if the state law does nothing to require anyone to do anything in violation of federal law there is no positive conflict (only a negative one). The counter-argument would be that since Congress clearly intended to outlaw the commerce in cannabis the state law now allowing its commerce becomes a positive conflict for those regulating that commerce since they might be viewed to have become members of a criminal conspiracy under federal law.

ACLU Press release


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,037
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
Re: Prop 19 [Re: NizzyJones]
    #493459 - 10/30/10 12:17 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

i think you read that from one of the links that geo posted earlier in this thread, fyi....

Quote:

geokills said:
A good read on Prop 19's potential conflicts with the federal Controlled Substances Act:

If you have the time and the incination:




https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/489516#489516


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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OfflineNizzyJones
Fight Evil with Funk
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Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 371
Loc: Somewhat North of Normal
Last seen: 9 hours, 41 minutes
Re: Prop 19 [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #493461 - 10/30/10 12:19 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

I actually just stumbled on that now, but thanks!

After reading the first link: Yeah, pretty much what he said. Allowing cultivation isn't a positive conflict but regulating it might be.

I'm not 100% on California's procedure for implementing referendums that pass but let's just hope that whatever the final language as enacted is allows for severability.

Edit^2: TPM's poll tracker for Prop 19

That's got the oppose vote winning but if you use the filter to throw away the outliers it becomes more or less 50/50.


Edited by NizzyJones (10/30/10 12:30 PM)


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InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
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Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,496
Re: Prop 19 [Re: NizzyJones]
    #493500 - 10/30/10 04:41 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't say it had a 12% chance of voting for those that think that is what I said. I said 12% of the people that want it to pass are gonna get off there asses to go out and vote. Other then taking the day off of work to say their gonna vote.

Most likely it will pass but it's not going to be sold in stores by walmart and other big chains like people say it's gonna be. Their simply not stupid enough to do it till it goes federal. Now your small mom and pop stores may take the chance. The price of weed will drop and the price of clones and seeds will rise.

I myself am moving some gardens to areas where seed and clone growing are a little more tolerated. (esp since I plan to shift the majority of the grows to clone production followed by feminized seeds)

How the Feds will handle people when they bust them will most likely be like it is now. Now if you are busted violating federal law and have a medical excuse when you go to federal court your not even allowed to bring up the medical thing.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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