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InvisibleLaysthepipe
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,359
Loc: KOREA
Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Farmer Joe]
    #477008 - 09/14/10 02:30 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cops Say Yes to California Marijuana Legalization Measure
StoptheDrugWar / Phillip Smith / 09,13,2010


It was a law enforcement trifecta in support of California's Proposition 19 Monday, with a phalanx of police, prosecutors, and judges coming out in support of the marijuana legalization initiative in a pair of early morning press conferences in Oakland and Los Angeles and a teleconference later in the day for those unable to attend the live events. The endorsements come with Prop 19 in a very tight race and Election Day just seven weeks away.





While, unsurprisingly, a large number of California law enforcement officials have come out in opposition to Prop 19, Monday's events were designed to show that law enforcement opposition to marijuana legalization is by no means monolithic. Organizers of the events also released a letter endorsing Prop 19 signed by dozens of current and former law enforcement officials.

"As police officers, judges, prosecutors, corrections officials and others who have labored to enforce the laws that seek to prohibit cannabis (marijuana) use, and who have witnessed the abysmal failure of this current criminalization approach, we stand together in calling for new laws that will effectively control and tax cannabis," the letter read. "As criminal justice professionals, we have seen with our own eyes that keeping cannabis illegal damages public safety -- for cannabis consumers and non-consumers alike. We've also seen that prohibition sometimes has tragic consequences for the law enforcers charged with putting their lives on the line to enforce it. The only groups that benefit from continuing to keep marijuana illegal are the violent gangs and cartels that control its distribution and reap immense profits from it through the black market. If California's voters make the sensible decision to effectively control and tax cannabis this November, it will eliminate illegal marijuana distribution networks, just as ending alcohol prohibition put a stop to violent and corrupting gangsters' control of beer, wine and liquor sales."

The same themes were reprised in the three press conferences Monday. "I was with the LAPD when Nixon declared the 'War on Drugs' over 40 years ago and was one of the 'generals' on the front lines who helped implement that same failed drug policy that is still in effect today," said Stephen Downing, a retired deputy chief of police with the LAPD who is now a speaker with the group Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP). "During my career, I not only saw the ineffectiveness of our marijuana laws up close but also witnessed the harm our prohibition approach inflicts on public safety. By keeping marijuana illegal, we aren't preventing anyone from using it. The only results are billions of tax-free dollars being funneled into the pockets of bloodthirsty drug cartels and gangs who control the illegal market."

Former LAPD sergeant and Los Angeles County deputy district attorney William John Cox added, "This November, Californians finally have a chance to flip the equation and put drug cartels out of business, while restoring public respect for the criminal laws and their enforcement by passing Proposition 19 to control and regulate marijuana."

"This is a very, very good opportunity to increase safety on our streets and highways, get officers out of drug law enforcement and back on patrol," said LEAP executive director Neill Franklin, a now retired 34-year law enforcement veteran. "In addition, it will give up more cops on the streets to focus on drunk and drugged driving. All of our police officers are trained in drug recognition,and this is an opportunity to get more cops out stopping vehicles and checking for those who are driving impaired."

Former San Jose police Chief Joseph McNamara, now a research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institute, also took to the podium in support of Prop 19. "I've been studying drugs for years," he said, relating how he rose through the ranks of the NYPD before becoming chief in Kansas City and then San Jose. "We learned pretty quickly in New York that the people we were arresting were low-level offenders. All the arrests weren't doing any good. As cops, we felt the community would be better off if we were arresting robbers, burglars, and rapists. Enforcing prohibition took us away from protecting people on our beat," he said.

"I signed onto Prop 19 because I think it is a real opportunity for the voters to eliminate somewhere between 40 million and 200 million crimes overnight by making legal behavior that is today wasting so many law enforcement resources," McNamara continued. "Prohibition hasn't reduced the use of marijuana, and it also produces enormous funding for the cartels and the drug gangs. And violence, not because people are getting stoned on marijuana, but by the whole gangster syndrome that exists with prohibition driving prices up."

Passage of Prop 19 would be a "game changer," McNamara said. He challenged the media, which has been closely scrutinizing the measure, to apply the same rigorous evaluation to marijuana prohibition itself. "They are ignoring the details of the status quo," he said. "What do we have with this costly war against marijuana?" he asked. "Widespread violence, more use than if it were manufactured legally, and tremendous disrespect for the law."

Former federal prosecutor and California Superior Court Judge James Gray also spoke in support of Prop 19. "I was basically a drug warrior until I saw that the tougher we get with regard to nonviolent drug offenses, the softer we get with everything else because we only have so many resources in the criminal justice system," he said.

Gray also addressed the opposition's "what about the kids" argument by turning it on its head. "We are corrupting our children, not because of marijuana, but because of marijuana prohibition," he argued. "We are putting our children in harm's way. Ask our young people what's harder to get, beer or marijuana, and they will tell you it's easier to get marijuana, because alcohol is regulated and controlled by the government, and illegal marijuana dealers don't ask for ID."

Calling the Prop 19 vote "probably the most important election of my lifetime," Gray said the voters are ahead of the politicians. "I think we have a pretty good chance of doing something good for our state and for the country by passing Prop 19," he concluded.

Monday's law enforcement endorsements are just the latest in a long and ever-growing list of people and organizations lining up to support the measure, including labor unions, the National Black Police Association, the NAACP, doctors, politicians, political parties, and many more. Let's hope that list grows much longer in the remaining weeks until election day on November 2.



Just thought I'd put this here, found it on another site.


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:advisory:

“If you want to find out who your real friends are, sink the ship. The first ones to jump aren’t your friends.” — Marilyn Manson

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OfflineTina
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: FRACTALife]
    #477746 - 09/15/10 10:06 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FRACTALife said:
Quote:

Inverted said:
Quote:

Dr. Siekadellyk said:
:sun:
Too bad im not in Cali.










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OfflineDon King
Keep it in the Ring

Registered: 04/29/10
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Laysthepipe]
    #478055 - 09/16/10 12:32 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Joe McNamara, a retired chief of police in San Jose, CA, and Kansas City, MO


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Only in America!


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
Dreams of Oceans
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Registered: 08/15/10
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: SmOakland]
    #478730 - 09/17/10 08:26 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SmOakland said:
Anybody who does not want Prop 19 to pass because of little intricacies of the law clearly know nothing about laws and how they are passed.  All these morons in CA who are objecting to little details in the law have clearly never taken a class on government or done any significant research into the system by which these propositions are passed in CA.




The people who have publicized their stance against Prop 19 unless their favorite wording or ideas are used are only trying to influence the way it is written.  People who really support legalization will fall in line after their chance to make their mark has passed.  It is like how pro-Hillary Obama-haters still stayed with their party once the primaries were over.


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: FRACTALife] * 1
    #478914 - 09/18/10 07:03 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FRACTALife said:
Quote:

Inverted said:
Quote:

Dr. Siekadellyk said:
:sun:
Too bad im not in Cali.










I can't fucking wait if it goes legal though.


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"To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic."

"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

I am tired of Earth
I am tired of these people


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OfflineShaggy420
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #478919 - 09/18/10 07:40 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

i wander if it will even be on the news outside the US. :strokebeard: im trying not to get my hopes up too much about it passing though. its going to hurt if it doesn't pass.:sad:


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:Awemush::happyweed::fasted::happyweed::Awemush:


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Shaggy420]
    #478958 - 09/18/10 11:30 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TrippyStoner420 said:
i wander if it will even be on the news outside the US. :strokebeard: im trying not to get my hopes up too much about it passing though. its going to hurt if it doesn't pass.:sad:




yeah, im with you on the latter part there.  Hope for the best, expect nothing.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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OfflineShaggy420
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #479213 - 09/18/10 06:45 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hope for the best, expect nothing.


:awesomenod:


--------------------

:Awemush::happyweed::fasted::happyweed::Awemush:


http://www.clear-uk.org/


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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Shaggy420] * 1
    #479290 - 09/18/10 09:20 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Expect everything; viva la revolution!


--------------------
"To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic."

"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

I am tired of Earth
I am tired of these people


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OfflineTank333
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Registered: 08/20/10
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #480049 - 09/20/10 08:21 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

What I want to know, though, is what this law is going to do for the commercial aspect of it though.

See, I'm the son of an entrepreneur, through and through. I have been hustling pot since I was 17, and after 8 years, I've finally got my foot into a way to LEGALLY grow and sell pot to support my family. I'm definitely a long ways from being able to do that, honestly, but since I started growing I've been researching the law here in Washington to figure out how to exploit the maximum plant rules to maximize profits.

But growing for a medical patient and having him sell the bud back to the dispensaries doesn't require any sort of bureaucracy's fingers in it, with the requiring of permits, and namely background checks for said permits for commercial production. I got busted for selling pot almost 5 years ago, and got a felony for it. Now there's all sorts of things that I'm legally NOT ALLOWED to work at, such as a casino, or a state-licensed security job, because of regulations in these areas.

If it gets legalized to grow and sell commercially, am I going to get denied my permit simply because I was a dumb teenager who thought he knew everything?

I know here in Washington, it'll take a little while longer to get something like Prop-19 to get passed, but it'll be shortly after California does, that's for sure. I for one, hope I am at least operating at max capacity by then, and am able to at least be "grand-fathered" into these laws...


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My best run so far


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Registered: 06/27/10
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Tank333]
    #480100 - 09/20/10 10:08 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

If prop 19 passes and isn't overwritten/surpassed by Obama's people as being unconstitutional (which I hear is a possibility) I think it's basically to give each county of California the ability to tax and regulate it, which doesn't necessarily mean they will and from what I've heard in interviews is unlikely. Again, if this passes it seems that commercial produces will take over MMJ production, cutting out medical growers for the most part. I think something similar is going on in Oregon, where a prop is suggesting commercial production be taken over by the state, and cutting out however many mmj growers there are.

I tuned into a NORM broadcast and a expert witness of the sorts seemed to confirm my understanding of this prop. Sounds like a long shot of shooting short to me.


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OfflineTank333
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: maryanne3087]
    #480107 - 09/20/10 10:13 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

maryanne3087 said:
I think something similar is going on in Oregon, where a prop is suggesting commercial production be taken over by the state, and cutting out however many mmj growers there are.




Good God, that would be HORRIBLE! WTF ever happened to free enterprise, and monopolies being illegal?!?! Fucking government, man!!!

Right now there's a prop here in Washington that's trying to break the state's monopoly on liquor... I don't think it's going to make it through, though. That's too much revenue for them to let go of, even if it is wrong.


--------------------
My best run so far


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Tank333]
    #480114 - 09/20/10 10:37 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Monopolies have been around for a long time. Think about the Spice trade, anything exported from a region before it was established in non-native countries(ie rubber), the incandescent light bulb (3 main players established it world wide). Today the main players of any industry basically create a new ball game, where the smaller players can't compete and need to play in the little league.

My favorite example of this is agriculture, corn goes for 200 bucks per 1000lbs or even 1000kilos. This makes it impossible for someone without several kilometers of land and state of the art machinery (or some sort of cost efficient slave work) to compete with those who have endless fields and state of the art machinery. The guys who have hobby farms need to target smaller markets that the big players just aren't interested in or can't apply for such as organic produce, or selling their produce at fruit stands advertised as locally grown, fresh, organic, pesticide free, vine-ripened, etc.


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OfflineTank333
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: maryanne3087]
    #480119 - 09/20/10 10:52 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, that's true, but a monopoly by the state is much worse! It goes from being pretty damn hard to compete to being ILLEGAL to compete with them... That's where I have a hard time with it.

If big corporations get involved with this, they won't be able afford the overhead to pay workers to baby and micro-manage the crops like we do. This is going to result, IMO, in the small-time growers who have been doing this for years having an advantage over the big-time corps, with the quality over quantity.

Take beer for example. Go to Germany, and there's some of the best beers in the world, all from recipes perfected decades, if not centuries, ago. The experience alone is worth the plane ticket. But on the other hand you have Anheuser-Busch, who sells millions of cans of piss water they call beer every day... It's the same product, just a difference between the desire for quality...


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My best run so far


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OfflineChillWillis
old school fool


Registered: 06/14/09
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Tank333]
    #480451 - 09/21/10 08:51 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry, I hate it when people do this.. I could only tolerate up to Kite's asinine arguments then I got frustrated and couldn't read more


When's the vote taking place?


--------------------

It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom.


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: ChillWillis]
    #480519 - 09/21/10 10:31 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

first tuesday in november.  nov 2


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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OfflineShaggy420
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #481367 - 09/23/10 06:58 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

what would be the best way to follow what happens, coz im pretty sure its not going to be on the news much here.


--------------------

:Awemush::happyweed::fasted::happyweed::Awemush:


http://www.clear-uk.org/


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
Dreams of Oceans
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Registered: 08/15/10
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Shaggy420]
    #481405 - 09/23/10 09:16 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

This is probably your best bet for traditional news coverage:  http://www.latimes.com/

These people will also have lots going on:  http://yeson19.com/


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: CrayolaHalls]
    #481413 - 09/23/10 09:40 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

the norml website will also likely be posting the numbers.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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Offlinereckless
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Registered: 02/13/09
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #481419 - 09/23/10 10:09 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

It's kind of a big deal, hard to imagine not being able to find the information fairly easily..


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