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Offlinedonburi
humble on the humboldt
Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 4
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Musings on a growbox.
    #155094 - 12/03/08 10:34 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Hey everyone. First post here on the growery, though I've been reading for quite a while now. I LOVE THIS SITE. I used to read the shroomery all the time, that site was great, it's nice that that kind of community has finally been created for buds. Anyways on to business.

So I've got this idea for a closet growbox. I've been sitting on it for a while, I'd like to run it by yall to get everything straightened out with it. Here it goes.

The idea here is to have a two chamber box, totaling just over 5ft high, a little over 2ft wide, and 3ft deep. The top chamber is about 3.5ft high, the bottom chamber a little over 1 ft high. In the top chamber which is used for flowering, 4 high wattage (maybe 42w or so) CFLs with reflectors are suspended from the top corners of the box, pointed towards the center of the chamber. In addition to this, 9 low wattage (23 or 27w) CFLs are suspended down into the canopy of the plants. They are hung in such a way that their height can be adjusted as the plants grow. The bottom chamber is for cloning. Just two or three low wattage (23w) CFLs are used in this area. One to support the mother plant, and then another two to keep approx. 4 clones alive at a time. The 4 clones, which are rooted in rockwool cubes and sitting in a flood table type tray, are moved to the top chamber 2 weeks after being cut (or as early as their rooting allows), and replaced by 4 more clones. The lights are height adjusted so that plants are in order from one end of the chamber to the other by height.
Once moved to the top chamber, plants are transplanted into 1 gallon bags filled with a mixture of coco coir and perlite (60-40) with drainage holes at the bottom. These bags also sit in a flood table type tray. From here they are flowered for as long as they need to be (about 50 days, slightly more), fed with Canna coco a+b and pk13-14. The idea is to get a SOG perpetual harvest going. How can I make sure to keep them small? Supercropping? LST? Supercropping sounds better to me honestly. I'm primarily concerned about the space here, I know they'll stretch during flower, and if they yield a little less because they're small, well hey, sometimes you gotta work with what you have.

The temp in the actual immediate surrounding of the box should range from about 60 F to 80 F max. This fan looks as though it may work, and I've read good things about it: Air King Lasko 655702, Stanley® Blower Fan, unfortunately there's no flow rating listed. Will that blow air through a carbon filter? Anyone have any experience with these/ducting them? It would ideally be placed inside the box, venting outwards, but I'm not sure there's going to be enough space. If you have one, how loud are they? Could you live with one in your closet?

An alternate setup which was suggested to me for the same space is this:
Although the size of the box in the above example cannot be changed, there is the possibility of using that as the flower chamber and building another smaller box for mother/clones. The other space that's available is much smaller. Probably about 2.5ft high by 1ft wide by 3ft deep. In this setup a 150W or 250W HPS would be mounted in the large box and it would be used as a flower chamber. The smaller box would have some CFLs mounted in it and used for cloning/mother. Given this solution, I'm gonna need to find a light and fan. I can't link to em, but sunleaves makes "micro" and "mini-micro" (250 and 150w respectively) HPS combined ballast/reflectors. Would these work?
The 150 and 250 are the same in terms of price at the site I'd like to order from, so which one will the space be able to handle? Obviously the more light the better. I'm gonna need suggestions when it comes to fans. I've found a blower fan available at 70 USD which is rated to move 180cfm. I guess I would probably need to get some kind of speed control if I want to keep it hush hush, but will that work? Would an inline fan be a lot quieter? I'm open to any input, just keeping in mind that the dimensions of the boxes are as large as I can go. Also, DP Strawberry Cough and Nirvana Bubblicious seeds are already available to me, so I'd prefer to use those if possible.


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InvisibleDr. Penguin
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Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: donburi]
    #155167 - 12/03/08 11:44 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Ok! Great first post.

You have quite a bit of space to play with, don't be shy with lighting. The cfls you plan to use for your flower chamber are probably not going to be enough. I would seriously consider a 250w hps and maybe use some supplemental cfls. You will have MUCH better results. Don't skimp on your fans and lighting, they really pay for themselves in the long run. Try to get a remote ballast if possible, that way you can locate the ballast, which makes a good bit of heat, outside the room.

I like the idea of splitting the space for mothers/clones and using a SOG perpetual harvest system. If you go with 3-4 day veg time after roots sprout, you can grow single cola mini plants staggered every two weeks. These plants individually won't yield a ton but they will make the best use of your light for sure; I would say an easy 1g/watt is possible.

I don't know too much about that blower but I hear they aren't bad. I defintly think the inline you found would be the better choice though. Especially if you get a speed controller as well, they are little more than a whisper. Mine is a cab sitting in the open and it is drowned out by a box fan on low while speed controlled. Full blast with the carbon scrubber on is about as loud as a new ac unit.

As for strains, if this is your first grow, try nirvana. If you have some experience under your belt, go with the cough.

Best of luck!


--------------------
* My Cab
* How to Build a Grow Tent
* Fan Speed Control 101
* Easy Butane Extraction

Not responsible for advice not taken.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: donburi]
    #155234 - 12/04/08 01:27 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Flower the cuttings as soon as they root.



This won't happen with cfl's


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,163
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Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: Magash]
    #155252 - 12/04/08 01:56 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

listening to magash is probably a good idea, he's been growing longer than most of the people on this forum have been alive.

I've seen some pathetic results with cfls so I'm convinced they suck.


--------------------


TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!


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Offlinedonburi
humble on the humboldt
Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 4
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #155261 - 12/04/08 02:20 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Allriiiigghhhtt. Giggity Giggity. That gets me excited that the good Dr. is on board with at least part of this plan, and Magash too! I'm all about getting the 250W HPS for this setup, I was simply under the impression the box would not be able to handle the heat. As for the supplemental CFLs, that sounds good, check out these little honeys: hxxp://www.1000bulbs.com/Air-Purifiers/. I have heard that they work, and can be used for odor control. Whether supplemental or primary, I'm not sure, but it would be really cool to get those in there sucking up some bud stank.

In regards to the 250W with separate ballast: I would love to do this. However I found a 250W light which has an integrated ballast at Discount Hydroponics. This is the cheapest option I have found so far, and it's made by Sunleaves, which from what I gather is a reputable brand. Should I look elsewhere? I'm guessing you don't have experience with this light, but from your guess, is the integrated ballast going to give me heat issues?

Actually scrap that. I found a cheaper one just now at Insidesun.com. hxxp://www.insidesun.com/Super_Economy_400_Watt_MH_65a26e.item, any thoughts? Quality?

In terms of the fan, I've looked at a number of different places. The cheapest stuff is all from this place American Science and Surplus. Their website is hilarious. Here's the fans and blowers page: hxxp://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm/subsection/18. But to save you some time, the best looking options:

option 1 (Semi-Round Fan): 2.6A, 12VDC, 235cfm, 3400rpm, 29.50 USD
option 2 (Big Blower): 8A, 12VDC, no cfm rating, 2000rpm, 12.50 USD
option 3 (Big Arctic Muffin): 740mA, 120VAC, 240cfm, 3100rpm, 32.95 USD
option 4 (German Fan, this looks the best, but who knows?): 6A, 24VDC, no cfm rating, 2700rpm, 14.50 USD, 10 inch fan.

Those seem kind of crazy and as though they might be hard to setup (none come with standard 3 prong power hookups. In fact some have 4 prong hookups, so I think wiring them may present a challenge), so I also found this blower fan, which seems more realistic: hxxp://cheaphydroponics.com/store/imported-products/active-air-blower-180cfm/prod_161.html.

Is there somewhere I can get an inline on the cheap? And just to clarify, when i say inline, I mean like a centrifugal fan (hxxp://cheaphydroponics.com/store/ventilation/vortex-powerfans/cat_35.html), not just the ones that look like a fan inside a duct. Are there speed controls that will work with that blower fan? I've heard it's dangerous to hook certain speed controllers up to AC (as opposed to DC, not air conditioner) fans. I was also told that about 125cfm would be enough to cover this setup. At that rating, I can find fans which are much smaller. Even muffin fans! Will these be suitable? I'm talking about the kind you would use to cool your computer, or maybe an electronics cabinet. I'm guessing they won't be able to push air into a scrubber, though.

Finally, a few questions about the SOG. First, when you say 3-4 day veg time, do you mean after the plants begin to take root, or after you can see roots coming out of the rockwool? Second, Someone suggested to me that the space I'm talking about using for the mother/clones would not be tall enough to support a healthy mother. True? Third, I also came across the idea of running the chambers side by side, so that they can both be tall. I don't particularly need the plants to be tall, it doesn't matter to me, but if this is necessary for the mother to be healthy, I can deal with that, even if it means flowering less plants at once.

Again, thanks to everyone at this forum! You've made this learning process so much faster than it would've been without you.


Edited by donburi (12/04/08 02:22 AM)


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Invisiblemhbound
Ballin out at all cost
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,142
Loc: High Flag
Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: donburi]
    #155262 - 12/04/08 02:23 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Magash what was your yield on that? I haven't ever done it, but have heard your yield a nice amount for the speed you can flower at...If you go straight in to flowering.


--------------------
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Offlinedonburi
humble on the humboldt

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 4
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: mhbound]
    #155271 - 12/04/08 02:39 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Yeah, DJAM Magash those are some nice plants, although I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that. That's what I'm aiming for, I guess.

Uhhh also, will these work for what I'm doing? I don't know much about electrical hookups...
hxxp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Marine-boat-bilge-air-blower-fan-3-inch-in-line-2-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a15Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem250335547595QQitemZ250335547595QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,163
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Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: mhbound]
    #155277 - 12/04/08 02:43 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

its more then nice

you cut out flowering which can be a month

you get the most amount of buds in the shortest amount of time possible for the area

you can easily double yield with a full indica if u cut out veg time and use more plants

IE. 12plants 1month veg vs 36 plants no veg


--------------------


TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!


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Invisiblemhbound
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Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: donburi]
    #155278 - 12/04/08 02:43 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Is that to move the air out of the grow space?? If so you need to make sure it moves the amount of air in that room every minute...

Squirrel cage blowers are best.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fasco-Squirrel-Cage-Fan-Blower-110-115-V-2930-RPM-RBT_W0QQitemZ180311444893QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_HVAC?hash=item180311444893&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

That's probably too much, but something like that. You will have to do the number crunching....I is too tired.


--------------------
Suck my balls America


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: donburi]
    #155280 - 12/04/08 02:44 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

A foot tall is gonna be tough for the mothers esp if the soil is a part of that one foot.

These here were flowered the day they were ready to plant. (when roots are coming out of the cube)



--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisibleDr. Penguin
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Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: Magash]
    #155318 - 12/04/08 08:16 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Yup, I agree with magash, flower them as soon as possible after they root. I like to let mine get used to the soil for a couple days after I see roots and transplant, but to each their own.

Muffin fans won't be able to move air through a scrubber. Check this site out for fans: http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/ventilation-fans-c-76.html
Thats where I got my 180cfm valueline inline blower which I like quite a bit. It is decently loud though so grab a fan speed controller from that site or you can make one if you are mechanically inclined. The only other type of fan that will work is a squirrel cage blower like mhbound said.

Space wise, I defintly wouldn't go side by side with the chamber. You want as much flowering room as possible. I keep my mothers in a 1'Lx1.5'Wx1.5'H tent and I have never touched the top of it with my hanging light. If you are diligent you shouldn't have much of a problem with 1' of mother space. Look into bonsai style mothers, the goal with them is to never let your mother outside of 1' cubed space which is perfect for you. If you are really worried about it, shave a bit of hight off the flower chamber and add it to the mothers, but I doubt you'll need it.


--------------------
* My Cab
* How to Build a Grow Tent
* Fan Speed Control 101
* Easy Butane Extraction

Not responsible for advice not taken.


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Offlinedonburi
humble on the humboldt

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 4
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #155433 - 12/04/08 04:48 PM (8 years, 6 days ago)

Thanks Dr. and Magash! I really like that setup Magash has got going, so nice. Also Dr. P that site is awesome! It's got inline fans for so cheap. I think the plans are pretty close to being finalized at this point, but I gotta ask this: how safe is ordering from online hydro supply shops? Even if items are ordered to an address different than where the box will eventually be located, is that safe? Is it a good idea to order using a prepaid debit card, and probably to put someone else's name on the card? I would assume that's a must. I have heard rumors of UPS and USPS handing over delivery inventory lists, and have also heard that hydro shops in my area are under surveillance or employ snitches. Yikes :uhoh:

Does anyone have any other suggestions or rules that they use to avoid detection? This is very important, and I need to make sure I know what's up before I start in on the project. Thanks again guys, this will probably be the MOST important advice I get.


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InvisibleDr. Penguin
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Re: Musings on a growbox. [Re: donburi]
    #155555 - 12/04/08 09:00 PM (8 years, 6 days ago)

I'm glad you like that site but I agree, a fair bit of caution is always warranted. Go to a grocery store and pick up a prepaid visa card with cash, no need for a name. Ship to a different address as well and you should be golden.

As far as the hydro shop goes, borrow a car from someone and use that. I highly doubt they will follow the car, just check the plates if anything.

But the most important rule:

Loose lips, sink ships!


--------------------
* My Cab
* How to Build a Grow Tent
* Fan Speed Control 101
* Easy Butane Extraction

Not responsible for advice not taken.


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