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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
250w Samsung LED Grow - Wedding Cake clones in coco-perlite - COMPLETED
    #855647 - 02/17/22 05:12 AM (3 months, 2 hours ago)

Today is day 3 of me putting my new clones in their final tent.

Some season background. I scattered some seeds in spring, I'm in the southern hemisphere so that was in September/October. Out of 12 sprouts I ended up letting the elements do their best to them leaving only 4 very sturdy healthy survivors. The strain is a cross of Wedding cake and Lemon Haze.

I cloned the crap out of them and they all turned out female. I put them in gigantic pots. Severe nutrient burn incident killed one. The last 3 are beautiful outdoor giants. But this log is going to be about my indoor setup. Put simply, it's a 1.8x2x1.2 tent [HLW] with a Samsung LM301B Grow light 220W LED as the centerpiece. There's fans, humidity and temp monitoring, plenty of ventilation.
Here it is hanging.

These clones were vegged under fluos for a week after rooting fully and have been under 24h of light for 12h in pic one and 3/4 days in the next pics.

This is my first indoor grow in a long time. I've had one run in this tent that had inadequate lighting, and produced wispy buds. The samsung light is everything and more than I needed.

I figure if I'm gonna do something right and learn from it in retrospect, then I may as well put out this log for myself and others.

My camera is unfortunately not too good, but when clear pics are essential I'll borrow one when possible.

My plants are planted in 5x 5 liter bags, full to the brim. They are all clones of my outdoor plants.

There's number 1.

2.

3.

4.

And 5 makes a full headcount.


The optimal coverage during bloom for this light I've seen stated numerously as 120x60cm. My grow is smaller, in all likelihood, than this light's production capacity, but I'm aiming for quality over quantity.


My tent has ropes threaded through 5cm radius PVC piping running lengthwise along the top that can be modified along with the grow for hanging ties and ratchets etc.

I'm sorted with a very wide range of different nutrients, from foliar sprays to organics to hydroponic nutrients, and soluble powders. Seaweed/kelp, Cal-mag, 3 lines of Tri-Part nutrients. Fish emulsion is a favourite and I have 5 liters on hand.

My grow tent saw white powdery mildew last run near the end, so before moving these guys in I used a pretty concentrated bleach solution with a rag and wiped every crevasse. 24h later I sprayed everything down with 3% hydrogen peroxide and let the fans run. In came the babies.

They're in a nice clean room now and I'm running 24/0. If this grow makes it to harvest in a good amount of time then I'll have completed my first proper LED grow that didn't go cheap on lights and/or get ruined by white powdery mildew.


Let's see...

Airflow:
1x 6" clip fan either dangling or pointed at the light, I adjust based on the plants.
1x 18" oscillating stand fan, I point either above the canopy when the plants are small or towards the side of the tent when they get bigger and more sensitive to wind-burn
1x 4" bathroom extractor fan at the bottom serving as an intake.
1x 12" bathroom exhaust fan suspended outside tent serving as the extractor, connected with 1m of ducting.

The airflow is nice. The canopy is always fluttering. There are no hot spots. Whether it's a cold day or a hot day, the ambient temperature in there is usually more stable and pleasant than outside. The humidity and temperature gauges reflect that.

This grow journal is a way for me to take community suggestions and ask my own questions to those interested in following for a day or 2 months.

My first question was should I veg more, and an experienced grower told me yup, so for now I'm looking to grow these out more and especially make them bushier.

The clones have very fast growing tops and lower nodes are still somewhat underdeveloped. I'm wary of topping them, LST seems more appropriate.


Edited by louisbell (05/09/22 01:03 PM)


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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855648 - 02/17/22 05:47 AM (3 months, 2 hours ago)

For a detailed breakdown of my nutrient line-up I have the following:

EHG coco-coir specific line of hydroponic nutrients - Grow - Micro -Bloom

GHE Bloom 0-5-4 GHE Ripen 0-6-5

Seagro fish emulsion, Vitamino foliar spray, Kelpak seaweed concentrate and Terra Aquatica Cal-Mag.

My medium is a mix of Coco-Vermiculite-Perlite at about 70/10/20

These clones received only light organic feedings before transplant, mainly fish emulsion and kelpak. After transplanting I flushed once, then fed 2 days later. I then flushed again before moving them from a smaller tent with fluorescent light to the big daddy LED tent. They're now sitting hungry and I'm wondering whether to feed or water only.

I will probably go with a half strength feed, using the EHG Grow-Micro combo. The recommendation is 2/ml/l grow and 1ml/l micro. I'll be putting 5ml Micro and 10ml grow into 10 L, and adding 20ml of fish emulsion. The combo of good chemicals at a half dose and the all-purpose nature of fish emulsion[I find it very beneficial and forgiving] as an addition makes for a safe and effective feeding. How they react here will tell me a lot about how to proceed.


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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855649 - 02/17/22 06:10 AM (3 months, 2 hours ago)

The feeding has been applied. I took the plants out of the tent for the feeding as I don't really have a drainage system. They seemed to like it, I saw a tiny bit of curling on the leaves but time and pictures will tell how they reacted.

They were definitely hungry plants, and I'll update this post HERE* with pics of them a few hours after feeding [I'm thinking overnight, so check back in 20h] so we have our first comparison.

FEEDING WAS 1ML/L EHG GROW 0.5ML/L EHG MICRO 2ML/L SEAGRO FISH EMULSION

UPDATE:

We have only a vague comparison, because silly me didn't pay close enough attention to the order fed them and put them back.

I'll now be labeling plants as well as pics, and as promised here are the 2nd pics a good 20h later.

PLANT 1

PLANT 2

PLANT 3

PLANT 4

AND 5

They're arranged in a different order than the first round, but today they're getting tagged.


Edited by louisbell (02/18/22 02:19 AM)


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InvisibleDataM
That Guy
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,736
Loc: Southwestern US
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855660 - 02/20/22 12:26 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

:threadmonitor:


--------------------
“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT


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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: Data]
    #855665 - 02/20/22 04:46 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Nothing significant to report other than they are growing beautifully.

Looks like we're gonna have a fun few weeks.

Their next feed I decided to mix things up a little bit, every grower has ways and opinions regarding feeding, my personal experience is that liberal application of organics such as fish emulsion allows us to give relatively "light" chemical applications most of the time without tripping up the plants and causing deficiencies. This is especially true in veg, because organic "veg" nutrients that are high in nitrogen[fish emulsion, anyone?] tend to be much cheaper than their bloom counterparts. My experience is, your plants are either hungry, plain thirsty, or happy. When a hungry plant is ready for a feeding, a bit of variety can do it wonders, even if you just slightly throw in a bit of something they're not used to. In this case that means I gave them 90% the original veg mix I use, and 10% of the leftover bloom mix I was using on my outdoor plants. Note, as of the first posting of this, I haven't applied the feeding, only prepared it, but it consists of roughly the following:

3ml/L Fish emulsion
0.1ml/L CalMag
0.4ml/L GHE Bloom
2 ml/L GHE Grow
1ml/L Vitamino (organic micro/doubles as foliar spray)
1.5ml/L kelpak seaweed concentrate
1ml / L GHE Micro

The slight addition of some bloom probably won't do much but I'm still getting a feel for their nutrient needs and variety (within logic) is my most reliable method of dialing things in.



It may have been worth taking a few pics, but I decided that the lower shoots had shown enough enthusiasm to merit giving the tops a pinch. So expect the next batch of photos to be in 5-8 hours once they've recovered and made some moves.



To novice growers, I consider myself an ever-learning grower with probably an intermediate range of know-how and experience. Mixing organics and chemical nutes is one of the most reliable and cost effective ways of giving yourself room for error without hurting your grow.

How?

With exceptions, organics don't really stand the risk of burning plants if used within the guidelines. That means that whether in full flower or first set of leaves, a full Bloom feeding of organic nutrients won't hurt your plants. Make the mistake of giving a chemical feeding of the same strength to a plant that's not hungry or ready for it will likely give you nasty burning.

Going 100% organic is the best for amateurs, but if you're trying to save money like most, this soon gets real expensive.

When my plants need a flush between feedings, I'll flush with water and then feed with organics.

When my plants are changing phases and sizes, I'll go with a mix of organic/inorganic nutrients to feed on the heavy yet safe side.

Once I see how the plants are reacting, or get familiar with their needs, I tend to give 80/20 inorganic/organic to make full use and still have a buffer.


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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855668 - 02/20/22 10:54 AM (2 months, 27 days ago)

Well the plants look fantastic, but I need a new camera. Don't tune out, I'll have pics up tomorrow, but for now just a text update:

They're getting bushier. They're loving everything. I topped them and the bottom branches are not disappointing me this time.


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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855698 - 02/23/22 08:30 AM (2 months, 24 days ago)


1

2

3

4

5

There they are now. Shortly after taking these photos I moved the fan further away and turned the power up.

I fed them with Grow, Micro and Fish emulsion, they're still under 24/0.

I have a good idea that #3 must have been a mislabel, but it's the same batch of seeds, just not a clone of the same pheno as the others.


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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855702 - 02/24/22 03:12 AM (2 months, 24 days ago)

The pictures have been lacking quality, I know. I hope this evening is the right time to borrow a housemate's phone for a little update photoshoot.

But for now, a quick analysis writeup of how this grow is going so far:

The light is just 100% everything. If you're an HPS/MH grower, or using CFLs or even cheap LEDs, try and find the time to invest in a light with true LED wattage, preferably dimmable, one from a reputable brand that doesn't BS the spectrum and power. I'm not sure if the situation is as bad for the rest of the world, but our local equivalent of Amazon stocks a ton of "600/1000" w grow lights that just aren't. Most are the right spectrum, but if you can't do your research on the light and it's cheap, you're not getting any guarantees. I have grown successfully in the past with fluo, with HPS, and I tried cutting corners when I started LED. The cheap lights I bought FAILED to produce anything that wasn't wispy, and the plants just didn't love the lack of light.

I was lucky and bought one second hand. All the best on the right deal for those still looking.

--------

My fan is too strong. The 18" oscillator which was blowing over the canopy is now blasting the plants as they get taller, causing that unbearable ventilation problem I have at times where you're doing heavy training on plants and it becomes hard to differentiate what grew as a result of nutrients and light and intervention from what the airflow excess caused. I'm fixing this by moving my fan, trying different angles, settings and distances from the plants. As the plants take shape, pointed straight against the tent wall gives me best results, and additional hanging fans pointed in low circulation zones do nicely.


-------

There's definitely something up with plant 3. It's not the same pheno. It is a female, but it's not as strong and can't compete with the other 4 for the race to a flat canopy.

I've decided to donate it to a friend, and I'm playing with the idea of extending veg significantly to produce the best I can. My 4 plants are currently in mostly full 5L bags, and I might switch to 10L pots.

I cloned these as the last 6 of the season. I put one outdoors and kept these 5. Except #3, they all are doing super well.
------------


My method, just in case anyone is interested, is a simple 2x3 tray of six with space in each compartment comparable to a jiffy cup, pic below.



I fill these up with coco coir. I wet the coco until it's loosely soaking in water and then squeeze each handful like a sponge to wring out any water. I make a small hole about 3/4ths deep in the center of each mass and I use a pencil usually.

I gather the tray, nice and packed, along with a pair of clean fabric scissors that are razor sharp, and I open up my rooting hormone. One by one with clean hands I select branches of similar sizes, but usually in these trays I'm making bulk small backups, ideally I like to clone bigger with my mains. I cut branches just above the next node when the have 2 and they're about 4 inches for this size tub. Cut at an angle, pinch hard and drench in water, dip in hormone and plant. I pinch the sides of the coco to sandwich in each cutting and then I put them in an early veg tent 24/0 with misting and a plastic dome.
I summarized a method that a google search will detail better, no reinventing of the wheel. My success rate is 100% unless there's a significant variable.

-----

Got carried away explaining methodology, back to the grow.

I grew these all from small clones as mentioned above, and as they adapted to the larger tent and superior light they exploded with growth in the main stem. The bottom branches are not as strong, and as my first grow of this strain with this kit I am not quite sure how best to manage the canopy transformation that needs to happen. Topping is an agressive method here because of the amount of mass that is the main stem itself is large, much more so that if I'd been less hands off in the earlier stages.


I have just managed to apply some dramatic branch bending and pinching techniques, definitely HST. I broke the main stem about 2/3rds of the way up on some, taping it to heal at an angle. I really went to town on bending and fraying the most agressive growing branches in order to get the bottom to catch up. I will be posting high definition pics once I see the response and taking suggestions on how to proceed. I think I made essentiall a perfect batch of SOG clones but I need more branches because I don't have 12 plants, I have 4/5.


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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855703 - 02/24/22 04:35 AM (2 months, 24 days ago)

Any thoughts on pot/bag size?

Is 4x 5L a good amount or should I take advantage and veg more in 10L pots now that I'll be down to 4 plants?


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Offlineyoosername
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Registered: 06/09/17
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Last seen: 2 days, 14 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855704 - 02/24/22 08:59 AM (2 months, 23 days ago)

You can grow really big plants in really small pots of coco, provided you can feed them often enough.  If you don't want to water more than once or twice per day, then you should go up to larger pots.  I haven't experimented with organics in coco, but when running synthetics the idea is to feed more often in smaller containers, and to prevent the coco from ever drying out.


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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: yoosername]
    #855851 - 03/11/22 01:28 AM (2 months, 9 days ago)

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I get what you mean, but what works for me works, ya know?

And what works well for me is introducing organic feeds first, then shifting to chemical feeds at 70% strength with an organic buffer.


I got my new phone, and I am 13 minutes away from flipping the light back on from the first night of darkness.

THU March 10th - first 12/12 from 24/0

Pics coming soon. They've grown up a lot. Can't wait to flower em.


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Offlinelouisbell
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Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855852 - 03/11/22 02:13 AM (2 months, 9 days ago)



As you can see they've come a long way.



These pics are after night 1 of 12/12.


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Offlinelouisbell
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Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855853 - 03/11/22 04:43 AM (2 months, 9 days ago)

These babies just FYI were given 2 organic feedings of 5ml/L of fish emulsion, one with a splash of seaweed extract and another without. That is since the last feeding, and they've since been watered daily or every second day as a pre-flower flush.

The uniform canopy was achieved using a mix of pinching pruning and topping, the most effective way to even the canopy was to pinch dominant branches while feeding only water and trim away anything lower than 50% of the plant height from base to top.


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Offlinelouisbell
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Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #855867 - 03/13/22 11:30 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

So my power grid is making me have to work with 2.5h power cuts scheduled to happen for a month on a daily basis, but I can work around that. It's this shitty country and I've grown with these interruptions before, basically I don't have any problems as long as they get their 12+ hours. Sometimes I run my lights a bit later, it's really just important to make sure they systematically get more hours of dark, but if you suffer from power cuts you can bend the cycles a little and do 15dark/12:30 light once or twice.

Of course, if you live in a first world country with a stable power-grid, you can disregard the above.

Lucky bastards.


They're getting a feed of 3ml fish E + 1ml EHG BLOOM per litre, I'm cutting the weaker branches that don't stand the chance. The canopy is pretty cluttered, I could actually use some advice on managing it but I could do with a good resource rather than comments on my pics.

Any good links on rules of thumb for what to cut and what to leave?


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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #856542 - 05/03/22 05:59 AM (18 days, 3 hours ago)

So after somewhat abandoning this journal due to work popping up, I'm back with some pictures.

Much love fellow growers.


I'll do my best to follow the general timeline when uploading, but first some updates.

- 3 plants survived. As I mentioned, out of the original 5, one didn't catch up and ended up donated to a friend's grow as a new mother plant. One made it into week 2 of flower before the others just violently overtook it, so with no canopy space I let it go as well, it died after a day outside due to wind.

- Out of the 3 survivors, one has taken the spotlight and accounts for (I'm estimating) a good 60% of the weight.

- Their feeding schedule has been a staple diet of 3ml/L fish emulsion and 4ml/L GHE RIPEN for late flowering. I worked my way up to this slowly, and the second I noticed the faintest hint of "too many nutrients" I cut the feeding back by 0.3ml /L, settling on 4ml/L maximum of RIPEN for this particular strain and grow. *This is nothing but my personal experience+an assumption, but this method of increasing feeding until you get the *slightest* overfeed seems to stress the plants just enough to make them pump out trichomes en masse.

- One thing I learned. HID lights seem to penetrate at a rate which requires a far flatter canopy than my industry standard Samsung LED. Essentially, I spent too much time vegging by training, when lower branches would have caught up just as easily from the light. LED penetrates better than HID is my experience here. I can imagine LEDs would give good results on autoflowers compared to HIDs for this reason.

- Another thing I learned. Drainage. Ah.... How trying to be lazy created 10x the work. My method of pulling my plants out the tent to water them was great, and had all 5 original plants grown to roughly the same size and been evenly distributed, I might even have been spared the ballache.
Because the plants grew so lanky and top heavy, with branches lacking in the ability to support the buds, taking them out became incredibly difficult, and with the need to tie branches to the roof of the tent in the flushing stage (now), I can't do it anymore. I have to pour water into my tent and have towels ready to go. This would be insufferable for a full grow, and luckily is only necessary for 5 or so waterings of plain water. Pouring nutrients, especially FE, in this manner wouldn't have been feasible. Conclusion, work on a drainage system before round 2 with this light, factor in the better light penetration.

888888888888888888888888888888888888


So that about sums up the developements, I'm in week 7 of flower, 2 days away from the first day of week 8, with two flushes having been given already.


I hope you enjoy the pics :smile:

To start off, here are some pics a few days later into veg.



Here's about when I flipped them to 12/12 and gave them a good flush before transitioning to bloom.



Here they are in natural light getting a feed outside.



As you can see they grew a lot, and the veg period was very short.
I'm guilty of hitting a dab halfway through this so I'll post the rest of it a bit later. It's just a few days til harvest and I plan to keep this updated from now on.


Edited by louisbell (05/03/22 06:03 AM)


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Offlinelouisbell
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Registered: 01/21/22
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Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #856543 - 05/03/22 07:29 AM (18 days, 1 hour ago)

Alrighty time for some flowering pics. My camera isn't the best but you'll appreciate the beauty of my very messy first attempt at an LED grow.
















And there we are. The pics were taken at various stages, and the timeline of posting is accurate, but I'm not sure of exact days or anything. We're about to enter week 8, I'll post regularly now that things are getting interesting.



Final thoughts for now, I like the way this grow is turning out, but next grow I will have learnt my lesson about vegging for too long.


Next grow I'll keep it small, but lower and more compact, with more plants and a shorter veg period.


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Offlinemakai444
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Registered: 05/01/22
Posts: 12
Loc: USA, Hot and Dry Climate
Last seen: 12 days, 8 hours
Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #856551 - 05/05/22 02:29 AM (16 days, 6 hours ago)

I'm loving the plants, but the electrical stuff if giving me anxiety. I think I saw some sketchy wiring in there and that fan hanging by it's cord at the begining isn't my jam at all. my attitude with this kinda stuff is to play it safe, since it's on 12-18 hours every day unattended with a flammable plant(s) in close proximity

Quote:

louisbell said:
So my power grid is making me have to work with 2.5h power cuts scheduled to happen for a month on a daily basis, but I can work around that. It's this shitty country and I've grown with these interruptions before, basically I don't have any problems as long as they get their 12+ hours. Sometimes I run my lights a bit later, it's really just important to make sure they systematically get more hours of dark, but if you suffer from power cuts you can bend the cycles a little and do 15dark/12:30 light once or twice.

Of course, if you live in a first world country with a stable power-grid, you can disregard the above.

Lucky bastards.


They're getting a feed of 3ml fish E + 1ml EHG BLOOM per litre, I'm cutting the weaker branches that don't stand the chance. The canopy is pretty cluttered, I could actually use some advice on managing it but I could do with a good resource rather than comments on my pics.

Any good links on rules of thumb for what to cut and what to leave?




getting an uninterruptible power supply for the tent isn't a bad idea under these circumstances. I've thought of one in case all the ACs overload the power grid this summer (I live in a hot and dry climate, so summer is brutally hot)


--------------------
Current Grow Thread


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Offlinelouisbell
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Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: makai444]
    #856584 - 05/09/22 12:30 PM (11 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

makai444 said:
I'm loving the plants, but the electrical stuff if giving me anxiety. I think I saw some sketchy wiring in there and that fan hanging by it's cord at the begining isn't my jam at all. my attitude with this kinda stuff is to play it safe, since it's on 12-18 hours every day unattended with a flammable plant(s) in close proximity

Quote:

louisbell said:
So my power grid is making me have to work with 2.5h power cuts scheduled to happen for a month on a daily basis, but I can work around that. It's this shitty country and I've grown with these interruptions before, basically I don't have any problems as long as they get their 12+ hours. Sometimes I run my lights a bit later, it's really just important to make sure they systematically get more hours of dark, but if you suffer from power cuts you can bend the cycles a little and do 15dark/12:30 light once or twice.

Of course, if you live in a first world country with a stable power-grid, you can disregard the above.

Lucky bastards.


They're getting a feed of 3ml fish E + 1ml EHG BLOOM per litre, I'm cutting the weaker branches that don't stand the chance. The canopy is pretty cluttered, I could actually use some advice on managing it but I could do with a good resource rather than comments on my pics.

Any good links on rules of thumb for what to cut and what to leave?




getting an uninterruptible power supply for the tent isn't a bad idea under these circumstances. I've thought of one in case all the ACs overload the power grid this summer (I live in a hot and dry climate, so summer is brutally hot)






The UPS is on my list, I'm quite broke lol. The dodgy looking electricals are all low voltage connections, earthed, and the extra tape is misleading in terms of how it looks, it's actually very neat

Well, I've successfully harvested. My yield has been less than great, but it's been a learning exercise through and through with an emphasis on my needing to manage the height of my plants from earlier. I flowered too late, and some last minute humidity and airflow challenges made me harvest early, but only by a few days and well into the flush(12 days).


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Offlinelouisbell
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Re: Indoor grow - Fruits of the year, [Re: louisbell]
    #856585 - 05/09/22 01:01 PM (11 days, 20 hours ago)



Here's a closeup of a nug. They were a little immature but I was set to run into problems.



Here's another. Digging the colour.

And I'll be back when they're drying with a yield #.


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by OverAgain
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* My Grow: Flo Lights, Soil, Seed, Automatic Flowering Strains, 1000 watt HPS, All Organic
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* Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble
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* 12 Chrystal, 3 Purple Haze, 200w CFL's - 150w HPS (for flowering) I Have Returned!
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Inverted 108,103 275 02/02/10 11:58 PM
by FarBeyondDriven

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