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OfflineMrshroom
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Registered: 12/04/12
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clone problem
    #720880 - 03/11/14 11:09 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

1. Are you growing from seed or clones? clones

3. How tall are your plants? about 6-8 inches

4. What size containers are they planted in? red plastic cup

5. What is your soil mix? 50% fox farm ocean forest 50% hp mix (peat moss)

6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use and how 3-4 dasy

much you give per watering? about a cup of water or till all the soil is nice and wet

7. What is the pH of your water? 6.8

8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio? have not used any yet clones only been in soil for 2 weeks  50/50 of foxfarm ocean forest and hp pro mix(peat moss)

9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? no not yet

10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? all plants are under a 400 mh

11. How close are your lights to the plants?1.5-2 feet

12. What size is your grow space in square feet? 6.5x6.5x6.5 feet

13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? temp is around 78-83 but what the gauge says but i think its less

14. What is the pH of the soil? should be around 6.5-7.0 with the water i been using.

15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? nope

16. How much experience do you have growing? 3rd grow

the clones have been in the soil for about two weeks. but the roots i had to trim back a little to fit into the cups. (i also trimmed them so i could slow the plants down a little for the the plants i started by seed to catch up to the clones). The plants that started from seeds all look fine and are in the same soil mix that the clones are in. Also the last watering(two days ago wich the plants look did look like this when i watered them) i gave the plants 1.1ml of roots excelorator and 5ml of liquid karma to 1 gallon of water ph'ed at 6.8

so as u can see in the pics im getting yellowing and spotting on some of the leafs. and also some of the leafs are drying up and breaking up when i touch them.. the only thing i  can think of is that the plants need nutes but i would have thought that the 50% fox farm soil would have enoff nutes for a while. 

or could this be root lock?




Edited by Mrshroom (03/11/14 11:49 PM)


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: clone problem [Re: Mrshroom]
    #720945 - 03/12/14 06:04 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

PH of your water and soil is a little higher than I would use for freshly rooted clones.  Cannabis enjoys a PH that is slightly lower than neutral on the PH scale.  I'd go with a PH of 6. 

78-83F is too high.  You need to get better ventilation in your grow area to expel the excess heat created by your lamp and or back that lamp up until the temp is between 72-76F at the plants' canopy. 

5ml of Liquid Karma per gallon of water is way too much humic acid for plants that small.  That much liquid Karma coupled with the root accelerator + the fact that your soil is fortified with nutrients has caused you roots to lock out nutes.  The temps being above 80F isn't a deal breaker, but the temps being above 80F and sustaining aren't helping your nutrient lock out issues either.  Those babies could definitely use a heavy leeching.  Do you even know the ppm's of your water coming out of the tap?


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: clone problem [Re: hamloaf]
    #720967 - 03/12/14 10:27 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

i also do have a fan blowing on the plants.. when i put my hands above the plants my hand does not even feel warm at all from the light.


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OfflineFarmer Joe
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Re: clone problem [Re: hamloaf]
    #720971 - 03/12/14 11:05 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
I'd go with a PH of 6. 

5ml of Liquid Karma per gallon of water is way too much humic acid for plants that small.  That much liquid Karma coupled with the root accelerator + the fact that your soil is fortified with nutrients has caused you roots to lock out nutes.  The temps being above 80F isn't a deal breaker, but the temps being above 80F and sustaining aren't helping your nutrient lock out issues either.  Those babies could definitely use a heavy leeching.  Do you even know the ppm's of your water coming out of the tap?




I guess it could be nutrient burn, but I'm very doubtful that it is. Unless he's not testing his ppms and his water coming out the tap is way to high to begin with.

Liquid Karmas Analysis is .01-.01-.05 and Roots Excel is .02-0-.01 Botanicares recommended dosage for Liquid Karma is 15-20ml per 4 liters for cuttings. @ 5ml per gal it's a very mild solution. 


Are you testing your ppms Mrshroom?


--------------------
"Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal



Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: clone problem [Re: Farmer Joe]
    #720988 - 03/12/14 11:52 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I completely think he's locked out his nutrients due starting out with water with too high of a ppm, because it really doesn't matter what the guaranteed analysis of any said nutrient, additive or supplement is, or how mildly you are adding it. 

If the ppm's of your water is too high to begin with even the addition of an already mild additive added mildly will spike the ppm level well above acceptable levels for healthy cannabis growth and cause root lock out.  PLUS he's already using a true soil growing medium. 

I like the way he choose to respond to the light issue.  I mean he's gonna' want to correct that eventually but the light issue is the least of his worries at the moment.  Those plants need a proper leeching.


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OfflineFarmer Joe
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Re: clone problem [Re: hamloaf]
    #720994 - 03/12/14 12:04 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Right. The thing is we don't know for sure if his ppms are actually high or not.


--------------------
"Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal



Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: clone problem [Re: Farmer Joe]
    #721022 - 03/12/14 03:38 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

ok my tap water is around 100-110ppms and when i rooted my clones i ran them in un ph'ed water and the water is 7.o from my tap. so my clones are used to a higher ph... and i know that every grow ive done phing my water at 6.8 is the sweet spot for soil well atleast when using foxfarm soil.


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: clone problem [Re: Mrshroom]
    #721025 - 03/12/14 04:15 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

pH is fine.  Soil should be in the 6.8 range.  It's hydro that needs to be lower. 


I would either transplant into new soil, or flush the shit out of them, and with the last bit of flush give em a light feeding.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: clone problem [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #721026 - 03/12/14 04:20 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
pH is fine.  Soil should be in the 6.8 range.  It's hydro that needs to be lower. 


I would either transplant into new soil, or flush the shit out of them, and with the last bit of flush give em a light feeding.





the only thing i dont understand is why how come i would even need to flush at this point.. soil nuts are cut by half and i only been giving water to the plants intill the other day that was 5ml liquid karma and 1.1ml roots... and the plants already looked liked they way they are now before i gave them that feeding..

im goign to trans plant them anyways cause im guessing they are probberly to big for those small red cups anyways


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: clone problem [Re: Mrshroom]
    #721027 - 03/12/14 04:28 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I recommend flushing, be it's gets you back to the start.  Transplanting would be a better route right now IMO


And karma wouldn't have caused that, and your PPM really aren't that high.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: clone problem [Re: Mrshroom]
    #721207 - 03/13/14 09:06 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mrshroom said:
Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
pH is fine.  Soil should be in the 6.8 range.  It's hydro that needs to be lower. 


I would either transplant into new soil, or flush the shit out of them, and with the last bit of flush give em a light feeding.





the only thing i dont understand is why how come i would even need to flush at this point.. soil nuts are cut by half and i only been giving water to the plants intill the other day that was 5ml liquid karma and 1.1ml roots... and the plants already looked liked they way they are now before i gave them that feeding..

im goign to trans plant them anyways cause im guessing they are probberly to big for those small red cups anyways



Yea, your ppm's aren't really that high.  The national standard for ppm amount allowed in tap water is like 500ppm's.  I can agree that Karma alone wouldn't do that, but karma, root accelerator, nutrient enriched soil and water that is high ppms straight out of the tap will cause root lockout quick.

The high temperatures of your growing area is what I believe to be the main culprit of your lock out issues.  Especially if the plants started going south before you fed them then became worse after they ate.  Root zones getting too warm will lock out nutes, and since the size of your growing containers aren't very big it's very easy for the growing medium and roots to assume ambient temperature.  It's all relative. 

The matter of your PH is slightly subjective and mainly a matter of personal preference.  As long as you understand that cannabis enjoys a PH that is slightly lower than neutral on the PH scale and even a little lower than neutral when grown hydroponically and why, then you can figure out where you like to keep your PH.  6.8 will work for soil and soilless mediums.  I prefer 6 for soil and soilless mediums and a PH as low as 5 for hydroponics for several reasons really.

The aformetioned suggestions to leech then transplant are good suggestions.  I would back the light up a little bit, or upgrade the ventilation of the growing area until the temperature at the plants' canopy reads between 72-76F and transfer the plant into a premium soilless medium comprised of peat moss, top soil and perlite and feed with a premium water saleable fertilizer.


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: clone problem [Re: hamloaf]
    #721218 - 03/13/14 10:37 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

well venting is not a prob with my grow tent.. i have a 400cfm hooked up to a hooded 400watt light. 

on the soil part i did cut the fox farm with hp pro mix (peat moss) that has nothing in it. I did the 50/50 mix so that the fox farm only would not burn the young plants. i learned that my first round that its a little too hot by its self.

i did raise the lights a little its sitting around 76-77 now. But again i do have a fan blowing on the plants to help keep them a little cooler then that.

i did transplant the 5 clones . so i will keep this updated in next few days to week or so on how there doing.

for the ph i normaly run my ph one watering at 6.8 then the next one at 6.5 to help keep the soil in the ph range were it can assorb all nuts.


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: clone problem [Re: Mrshroom]
    #721235 - 03/13/14 04:35 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Well pH really isn't subjective.  It's science.  Here's the availability of nutrients on the pH scale.




--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: clone problem [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #721452 - 03/14/14 11:25 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I have that hangin on the wall in my grow room:stayfunky:

Nice to look at oncein a while just to be sure.


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: clone problem [Re: Mrshroom]
    #721611 - 03/16/14 08:25 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mrshroom said:
well venting is not a prob with my grow tent.. i have a 400cfm hooked up to a hooded 400watt light. 

on the soil part i did cut the fox farm with hp pro mix (peat moss) that has nothing in it. I did the 50/50 mix so that the fox farm only would not burn the young plants. i learned that my first round that its a little too hot by its self.

i did raise the lights a little its sitting around 76-77 now. But again i do have a fan blowing on the plants to help keep them a little cooler then that.

i did transplant the 5 clones . so i will keep this updated in next few days to week or so on how there doing.

for the ph i normaly run my ph one watering at 6.8 then the next one at 6.5 to help keep the soil in the ph range were it can assorb all nuts.



Ah yes, PH.  When researching in soilless or soil mediums I like to PH the water at 6.  The reason I do this is because (and I don't know why) after the water has been PH'ed the PH of my tap water rises over a day or two.  For me, starting with water that has been PH'ed to 6 gives my growing medium (soilless) that optimal PH of 6.5-7.0. 

Funk can't grow in water with low PH.  That's why in my hydroponic research I PH the water/nutrient solution to 5.  Plus the PH of my tap water raises after being PH'ed and sitting for about a day.

Come to think of it I have never tested the PH of the reservoir solution just before changing out the reservoir tank.  I will do that the next time I fire up the Aerocloner.  I have however PH'ed the water in my reservoir tank to 6 and the next day the water will be up to 7ish.  Very strange.  I don't know why this is happening, but I just accept that it is and deal with it the best way I can.


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: clone problem [Re: hamloaf]
    #721620 - 03/16/14 12:24 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Quote:

Mrshroom said:
well venting is not a prob with my grow tent.. i have a 400cfm hooked up to a hooded 400watt light. 

on the soil part i did cut the fox farm with hp pro mix (peat moss) that has nothing in it. I did the 50/50 mix so that the fox farm only would not burn the young plants. i learned that my first round that its a little too hot by its self.

i did raise the lights a little its sitting around 76-77 now. But again i do have a fan blowing on the plants to help keep them a little cooler then that.

i did transplant the 5 clones . so i will keep this updated in next few days to week or so on how there doing.

for the ph i normaly run my ph one watering at 6.8 then the next one at 6.5 to help keep the soil in the ph range were it can assorb all nuts.



Ah yes, PH.  When researching in soilless or soil mediums I like to PH the water at 6.  The reason I do this is because (and I don't know why) after the water has been PH'ed the PH of my tap water rises over a day or two.  For me, starting with water that has been PH'ed to 6 gives my growing medium (soilless) that optimal PH of 6.5-7.0. 

Funk can't grow in water with low PH.  That's why in my hydroponic research I PH the water/nutrient solution to 5.  Plus the PH of my tap water raises after being PH'ed and sitting for about a day.

Come to think of it I have never tested the PH of the reservoir solution just before changing out the reservoir tank.  I will do that the next time I fire up the Aerocloner.  I have however PH'ed the water in my reservoir tank to 6 and the next day the water will be up to 7ish.  Very strange.  I don't know why this is happening, but I just accept that it is and deal with it the best way I can.




yah but im not using soilless medium. and i dont have a issue of my ph changing after i mix it pluse this is my 3rd time growing with foxfarm soil and found that phing my water at 6.7-6.8 works the best with that soil medium to keep lock out from happening. on my 1st grow when i was watering at 6.5ph i was getting back lock out.


oh and the clones that i transplanted i think needed nuits cause i transplanted them into old soil that i flushed the living crap out of and gave them a light feeding and they are looking better now


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: clone problem [Re: Mrshroom]
    #721626 - 03/16/14 02:20 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

:facepalm: 


The information about using old soil would have been useful.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: clone problem [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #721629 - 03/16/14 02:38 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

well i was not using the old soil yet.. when i first planted the clones it was in new soil .. then when i transplanted(after the issue) i put them in the old soil


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