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OfflineDoc
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New MJ beer idea.
    #707206 - 01/14/14 11:16 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Hello. I have just come up with an idea that I think is fairly original and wanted to post it up ASAP so that no one else can lay claim to my idea if in fact it is original!!

My idea is to brew a beer from herb that is made almost entirely with sugar leaf as the source of carbs. The main focus is not so much on the thc content but there can be a fair amount of frosty trim involved here if a stronger THC brew is desired.

A couple of challenges that arise immediatly in my mind are that you would need a specific strain that produces many small sugar leaves that are light in flavor and all the plants would have to be the same. There would need to be a strong emphasis on consistency in the product because any variation would affect the final brew. There would need to be standards established to judge the qualities of a strain or leaf to make a brew. 

The plants would also need to be grown organically and have never been treated with any sprays. The final process would likely involve putting some hash into the bottles before bottling, and also dry hoping with buds during the initial stages.

If sugar leaf doesn't provide enough carbs then perhaps some rye or barley could be used as well. There would definitely be some good hops in there and the flavor would fairly light.

The point of this beer would be to make maximum use of high quality product that would normally be composted or wasted and is too abundant to be eaten fresh or used otherwise.

This is also potentially a good booster to the economy because brew houses could contract with local organic growers if they were able to refine this process. The other benefits of this beer would be more health benefits gotten from the product that would otherwise go to waste ( IE nutrition and enjoyment= health): if the alcohol content is fairly low. While this beer could be brewed to get one fairly drunk and stoned, it could also be brewed with less THC and alcohol content to yield something akin to kombucha; a sort of weed health elixir.

If you're thinking the flavor would be gross because of the leaf taste, I have already taken this in to consideration and have thought of a very quick extraction process where the leaves are hardly exposed to boiling water, or to use a juice press to press the juice from them and then blending with a rye or barley wort and perhaps a leaf wort as well.

Ha ha I will plan to do this someday in the future. Everyone, please let me know what you think, feedback ideas etc...constructive criticism...all welcome.


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OfflinePicklez
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: Doc]
    #707211 - 01/14/14 11:58 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's a good idea but I dont know if there is anything like it on the market and I dont know enough about brewing beer to know whether or not it is actually doable.. But on the overall it is a good idea

You need any growers to come work for ya, let me know :smile:


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Offlinefunnyfart
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: Picklez]
    #707251 - 01/14/14 03:25 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I drank this one in prague...


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Offlinevolcomstoner
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: funnyfart]
    #707263 - 01/14/14 03:40 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Well, hops are closely related to cannabis, so it could be a pretty cool idea. The terpenes would make it taste pretty damn good if you find the right strain.


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OfflineRasJeph
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: volcomstoner]
    #707264 - 01/14/14 03:58 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I had the dankest blueberry that would have tasted good in anything.

Spicy White Devil. IDK how stable it is but if you get the pheno I had you'll shit yourself. I couldn't believe the flavor of it.


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OfflineDoc
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: RasJeph]
    #707273 - 01/14/14 04:48 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Ha Ha I like the response so far...how was the one you drank in Prague funnyfart? I have seen a few different ones around, but i don't want mine to be gimicky or a novelty thing. I want it to be the type of thing that could be a staple...like you have your weed brew in the fridge, buds in the bong, and hemp seeds in the cabinet!! I could practically live off of weed :smile:

Anyone here ever had kombucha? Some of it sucks, but GT's is pretty good. I try not to buy it cause it's way overpriced and comes from hollywood...but damn the stuff can be good. This is what I was imagining the brew tasting like.

Rasjeph: ha ha yeah I love blueberry too, I 'm sure mines not as good as what your describing but I have a white widow X blueberry strain and when the blue berry pheno comes out the smell is amazing. I practically only grow strains with a pine/mango smell so I'm already half way there.

I'm just now realizing the idea is kind of silly because I can't think of any other alcohol brewed from leaves...it might not be feasible, but I will keep dreaming, and if it ever happens... growery will be the first to hear of it!


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Offlinefunnyfart
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: Doc]
    #707278 - 01/14/14 05:12 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not sure if it was this one in particular, but I remember it pretty good..
they also had cannabis vodka over there

edit:  :drunkdriver:


Edited by funnyfart (01/14/14 05:13 PM)


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: funnyfart] * 1
    #707284 - 01/14/14 05:44 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, so you know sugar leaves are called that because they look sugar coated, not because they actually are sugar coated, right? There is absolutely no possible way for you to get enough sugar out of plant leaves to reach a reasonable starting gravity for fermentation.

Also think about your potency; sugar leaves in the mash, hopping with nugs, bottle priming with hash.... What's the point of a beer where drinking one sip is the equivalent of 3 full joints to the face? I think the only way this wouldn't suck is if you brewed a regular beer with some dank hops (I've always thought chinook had a nice chronic smell) and then dry hopping post-fermentation with cannabis so the alcohol can do the extraction for you. If you balance it so that one beer is equivalent to smoking half a bowl it would be nice, because by the time you're 3-4 beers in you'll have a nice balanced buzz between the two.


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: Doc]
    #707300 - 01/14/14 06:02 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

This has already been done.  By many others, including myself  I did it along the lines of exactly what Harry was talking about.  Worked pretty well, but I felt it was a waste of weed.


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OfflineDoc
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: Hawksresurrection] * 1
    #707370 - 01/14/14 08:04 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Harryballsach: Ok well I get where you're coming from but I think you might have missed the main point of what I was saying...but as far as the sugar leaf thing i did not know that.
I guess the main point would be to use the leaves you would normally throw away that aren't  quite frosty enough to be worth making hash from but are still small and not all gross tasting like a fan leaf. I guess I just want to eat some nice organically grown leaves ha ha...

I just came up with this idea this morning and when I got back home I looked at it again and realized how weird it sounds...but I think it has future for someone who is entrepreneurial enough and has the know how and capability. I just threw in the part about the dry hopping with weed and hash because I figured people would want a beer that gets them stoned. But for me personally the whole idea was to make it a healthy drink that doesn't necessarily get you stoned or drunk, but if you wanted to you could brew it to get you drunk.

As far as just putting bud in to beer I also feel that is a waste cause I would rather smoke and drink.  Another interesting one is putting shrooms into the beer when you're hopping it at the end. My friend did that and its a pretty sweet way to trip, but you have to drink quite a few.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: Doc] * 1
    #707396 - 01/14/14 09:16 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

What point did I miss? I feel I adequately addressed everything you said in the OP.  You can definitely put weed in your beer (sugar leaves, buds, hash, idgaf) but the bottom line is that you will still need malted grains of some sort to supply the fermentables.

And again, the potency is up to you. If your friend's shroom beer took too many beers to make you trip, that's not a characteristic of all shroom beers, that just means you need to use more.


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Invisibleagmotes165
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #707929 - 01/16/14 09:20 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Would it be feasible to perform the malting procedure on a batch of cannabis seeds, and then use that as your primary carb source for the mash? I realize this deviates from the OP's point of recycling unused plant material into something tasty, but that's about the only way I could see someone getting a decent all-cannabis beer.

That leads to another interesting topic. From what I've seen (and I am by no means a plant biologist or a chemist, so feel free to bitchslap me with some science if I'm out of line here), the biosynthesis pathway for THCA in cannabis is pretty similar to the pathway for humulone in hops. Humulone is one of the main alpha acids that not only gives beer that bitter flavor that balances out the malt, but also discourages bacterial (im assuming prokaryotic) growth while allowing yeast (again assuming eukaryotic) growth. Additionally, both hops and cannabis boast a nice spectrum of terpenes (I'm sure their spectrums are somewhat similar, but not by any means completely). These terpenes could be used to add subtle flavor and aroma. Anyway, I'm curious as to whether a small amount of properly cured bud could offer an acceptable substitute  to hops in the brewing process? That would truly make it an all cannabis beer, as in something that would have less species involved in the ingredients list than beer that adheres to the Reinheitsgebot.

Again, please feel free to point out how full of shit I am. I'm pretty sure I'm too baked to be discussing such sciency things :shrug:


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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT


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Offlineplump
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: agmotes165]
    #707932 - 01/16/14 09:34 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

It my experience hops evil cousin provides to much bitterness if you add them to a brew start at flame out and dry hoping only.  Better to get all your IBU'S from a good bittiering hop and flavoring hop.  If I were making a bud pale ale for instance, I would use nugget for bittering go 1/2ounce to 3/4ounce for 60min depending on AAUs 1ounce of cascade for 30min 1/2ounce to 1ounce citra last 5min.  I would use something like the Danish Lager yeast from Wyeast #2042 ferment around 52deg to come up with something like New Belgium's shift. Then from there bud it up just to see what happens good luck and happy fermenting.


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Invisibleagmotes165
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: plump]
    #707933 - 01/16/14 09:43 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

:cool::thumbup:

Have you tried malted cannabis seed as the primary mash "grain"?


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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT


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Offlineplump
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: agmotes165]
    #707956 - 01/16/14 10:57 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

what kind of enzymes are produced in the malting of cannabis?


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Invisibleagmotes165
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: plump]
    #707960 - 01/16/14 11:36 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

good question :cool::thumbup: I have no idea but I do have some theories...

From what I've looked at, malting involves partial germination of the seed (grain). During this time, a small amount of the total starch stores within the seed is converted to sugars, which is then used to produce much greater quantities of (starch -> sugar) conversion enzymes. Once an adequate amount of these enzymes are produced, but before the seedling begins to grow and consume the starch/sugar stores within the seed...it is dried with warm air to halt biological processes and to add flavor to the mix via gentle roasting (im not sure whether this is from the sugar, starch, other compounds, or a combination of the three). The (starch -> sugars) conversion enzymes are preserved in the seeds, and the actual plant seedling is culled, much like the process used to kill off bacterial endospores in mushroom cultivation (germination and subsequent sterilization via heat).

When the brewer is ready to prepare the mash, the malted seeds are crushed to aid in the conversion process. The starch/enzyme combo is then combined with water at a temperature that maximizes the conversion activity of the enzymes. These enzymes then convert the available starch into fermentable sugars.

I'm assuming that since most plants use the same metabolic pathways (citric acid cycle) to produce ATP from a few common precursors, and that starches are basically a polymer made up of of carbohydrate monomers.

I then hypothesize that the starch->sugar enzymes are very similar (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, because I merely have a hobby interest in biology)

When making a mash, the fermentable sugars are water soluble and would easily migrate into solution. The protein would mostly be taken care of by boiling (protein break) which would cause a large portion of the protein to precipitate out. The lipids and oils would not readily dissolve, and would either stay in the grain leftovers or stratify out into the yeast bed at the bottom or form a film at the top (either of which would be easy to leave out while racking to secondary fermentation or bottling).

Is there anything I am missing or am I completely lost on this? I honestly do not know, I have a little experience with brewing (extract and all-grain), and have done some hobby-level research on how the malting process works. Other than that I have no experience with this.


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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT


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Offlineplump
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: agmotes165]
    #707965 - 01/17/14 12:11 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Dam You smart!  It's been my experience that malting at home sucks! I have only done it once for one ten gallon batch that's (25# of base malt) which gives you the most of your starch to covert.  Most two row malted barley will convert with little effort.  If you use anything else in the grist it's my opinion you should back it up with some six row (overly modified malt) or (extra enzymatic properties).  I have been playing with some one gallon recipes, and it would be interesting to see exactly what you could get off some malted cannabis seeds.  It would have to take at least a pound crushed malted seed for one gallon (that's considering that you are getting at least 75% efficiently out of you mash and the cannabis malt has the same amount of starch to convert YIKES), but if you had the means why not right.  I guess you could malt just enough to get a refractometer reading just to see how much sugar you can get out of the mash.  Very interesting might have to check it out. PEACE


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OfflineDoc
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Re: New MJ beer idea. [Re: plump]
    #708667 - 01/20/14 03:10 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah malting requires very good facilities, the ones in ireland are very old and well built, and very natural as in all stone and wood. Plus hemp seed actually has a very high level of fats oils and protein versus carbs, especially when compared to grains like barley or wheat etc. The other thing is they will not provide minerals like selenium etc needed by the yeast, but it is an idea. I just thought of making some hemp seed yogurt, that would be weird but I know they make it out of other types of milk substitutes, so if one made a hemp seed milk by grinding and soaking the seeds then straining them very well it would be possible to make a hemp yogurt, in fact now that I think of I'm pretty sure I've eaten something like this or maybe some hemp ice cream.

  I have eaten a pound and half of hemp seed since new years day, and I haven't felt this good in a long time! I eat anywhere from 3-20 tbsp of hemp seed every day. Hemp seed RULES. Cannabis rules. I fucking love cannabis. ha ha. :smile: And theres the whole thing about the buddha having survived on one hemp seed per day for a certain amount of time.


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