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Offlinesmokesnugz
"The Naked Shroomer"
Male


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 8
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
My Nute lineup - suggestions please!
    #691423 - 11/02/13 03:08 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'm working on my 2nd harvest and plan on using the same nutrient lineup as my first harvest..  This time I'm measuring lower doses and absolutely am not mixing.  I say this because my first time around I wasn't playing it safe and to be honest I wasn't quite sure where playing it safe was in comparison to killing the plants...  That being said, I trimmed my babies up 1 night about a 3rd of the way through veg attempting to "lighten" them up a bit and reduce the bushiness. 

After that I fed them a mixture of my nutrients, Started with my A&B 2 part basic nutes, Part A and Mix, Then part B and mix, Never together.

Then I added in some additives, Rhino Skin and B-52. I tried to use the better safe than sorry rule of thumb and low dose my mixture... Despite thinking I was playing it safe and feeling relatively confident in my knowledge I woke up the very next morning to very unhappy plants.

They started just looking tired and unhappy with weak limp leaves, By day #2 after the trim and feeding it was apparent I had fucked up somehow.. All the leaves were extremely weak looking and droopy, Also they began turning a sickly green-brown color like they were very sick.

The days following confirmed I had definitely burnt my plants, Leaves began to die and growth halted almost completely. It took about a week to a week 1/2 before they started to regain their health and new leaves we're present, I had 4 plants 1 of them took to the burn the worst and never could recover.. the others recovered and produced some quality bud despite being badly stunted.




Anyways, I'm basically looking for some suggestions and tips on how I can run my nutes more effectively and any tips on keeping my plants happy in general :smile:



That being said, I am a believer in less is more so I don't have overkill (to my knowledge) :smile:











http://www.humboldtnutrients.com/blog/master-a-b-kit/





Additives:



http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/oregon/oregon_labels/RhinoSkin_OREGON.pdf




http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/oregon/oregon_labels/B-52_Label.pdf




http://generalhydroponics.com/site/index.php/products/supplements/koolbloom/liquid_koolbloom/#




http://www.botanicare.com/Sweet-Berry-P42.aspx









That is all that I have now, At the time I nearly killed my babies I was only using basic A&B nutes alone with Rhino Skin and B-52 as additives, I believe I either mixed something that shouldn't have been mixed or I simply didn't reduce measurements enough to be mixing. Or I just had simply no fucking clue what I was doing!




Anyways guys.. Any and ALL comments/suggestions/tips are very appreciated... Constructive criticism is taken very well! I'd really like to learn how to measure and mix my nutrients properly with what I have.

I'm also interested in finding out some strains that take to nutrients better than others so if you know any great strains that take to nutes well I'd definitely be interested in hearing that as well..


Thanks a lot and I look forward to learning something new.




P.S

As a disclaimer, And before it's mentioned... I have the newest marijuana growing bible as well as marijuana garden saver and have also spent hours upon days upon weeks so on researching growing.. However in all that time this is the most difficult part of growing for me and I have not been able to wrap my mind around it and how to do it efficiently.


--------------------
:mushroom2: :mushroom2::mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:

"Dude, What did you take!? You walked off down the street naked and started talking to my neighbors lawn.."    -Talk to me!


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InvisiblephychotronM
weed pimp


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,491
Loc: Earth (mostly) Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: smokesnugz]
    #691426 - 11/02/13 06:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Do you have a ppm meter? checking your pH? Soil or hydro?

I've never used the rhinoskin silica, but if I had to guess it would be the Advanced Nutrients line giving you the problems. Whenever I mixed up AN full strength they're always 1800+ppm's, which is about double of what it should be (for my setup.) I use the Gro-tek Pro-silicate at 0-0-3 and love the results. Its the first one I've tried, cheapest and hard to want to explore other brands.  Try the Humboldt Nutrients "Verde" as a foliar spray, that should help you cut back nutrients and still feel like your feeding the plant. Its a great product that I've added to my line up.

AN's pH down is amazing, as it is very strong--sometimes hard to use because the final adjustment comes down to a few drops. You probably don't need much of the B vitamins, and notice they have 2-1-4, so your adding more of those to your mix. If you want B-vitamins they make this product called Superthive that is b-vitamins and IBA (rooting hormone) that been around for ages. I'm not sure I can see a difference with the plant.

If your going with HN for you base it might be better to go with their full line than to piece one together, as they've designed their formula around the products that they sell. They have one called S.I (structural integrity) that looks like it would work. Not saying the Rhinoskin is bad, but there might be small differences in the formula. Same with the koolbloom (P-K), looks like the HN version is Ginormous.  Just to keep things simple, the price difference on these products is not very much.

In veg you should top the plant, not bottom it in order to let it get bushy, then after about 2-3 weeks in flower after its stretched and its apparent which branches are going to be wimpy then cut those down. Don't top within the week before flower so that the top nodes can form some chemicals that make it dominant and it grows more aggressively. Obviously some branches at the bottom you will know need to come off, but its best to leave them at first until you get the eye for it.

I think a lot of people need to start with something other than the grow bible. Growing plants is not as hard as it makes it out to be. Start with the basics and address the issues as they come up and build on your formula as you learn the plant. People tend to get the idea they need to follow the book exactly or they will not have good results.

Oh, and mix that silica with about a liter or two of water before you mix it into your final solution, that stuff is one of the few nutrients that raises the pH, which basically means that it forms solids with the other nutrients (which normally drop the pH.) Dilute it so it mixes without doing that--otherwise you might notice a bit of cloudiness when you add it in to the final solution.


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Offlinesmokesnugz
"The Naked Shroomer"
Male


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 8
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: phychotron]
    #691445 - 11/02/13 10:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

My bad on the lack of details, thanks for the reply and questions..


I run soil, and do keep a close eye on PH when prepping water. I have noticed an increase in PH with certain stuff, especially Rhino Skin as you mentioned :smile:


So you like Humboldt Nutrients as my basic and think I should aim towards sticking with the brand when it comes to additives..


Well dam, You make a great point.. a simple logical one.. That being said, I would agree with Advanced Nutrients being the possible cause of my issues, especially mix matching with Humboldt.. To be honest, I just don't think I've had any idea how to manage a synergy with my nute lineup..  I feel like everything I have is out by it's self, like none of it works in synergy...



In the meantime till I get some better stuff, what do you recommend I do? Just continue using only my basic nutrients till I get some better additives?

And if so, How often? Daily?



Btw, No I do not have a PPM meter.. That is something I forgot to mention.. The idea of Part's Per' Millionth in relation to measuring nutrients gave me wet brain right off the bat.

I need to figure it out and know how to measure my solution.. Enlighten me please!


Finally,  I also agree with you on the bible and other books.. Not completely useless, but definitely a lot of bloat.. I just figured I'd mention them incase someone was like JEEZ JUST READ DA BIBLE! Lol..



Thanks man.. I'll try and get some pics of my 1st go around.. And will definitely be on here with some pics of what I got going on now.. I need some advice in these early stages =)





Edited by smokesnugz (11/02/13 11:26 AM)


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InvisibleCrushNazT
Male


Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 927
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: smokesnugz]
    #691447 - 11/02/13 11:19 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

yea id just stick to the base nutes till you find something else that works. you never wanna feed a plant every day. or every watering. i only hit my plants with grow/bloom nutes once a week. sometimes i skip a week.

you should definitely invest in a PPM meter. i cant imagine growing without one now. i love my truncheon. instant EC/PPM/CF. sounds complicated but its not. you check the ppm of your water before everything, then add one nute, mix up, check the ppm

for example, and im making up numbers they dont mean anything other than to understand PPM:

say the water you use is 0ppm before you put anything in it, you take 2 gallons of water and add 30ml of bloom and mix up, say that takes you to 500ppm, then you add 8ml calmag and it bumps it up to 750ppm. then you check your pH and adjust it.

ppm meters are awesome. they help you see what the plant eats and helps you KNOW what youre giving your plant. i dont go by feed charts on the bottle. i watch the plant and use a PPM meter.


Edited by CrushNazT (11/02/13 11:20 AM)


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Offlinesmokesnugz
"The Naked Shroomer"
Male


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 8
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: CrushNazT]
    #691449 - 11/02/13 11:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Pics of what I got goin on now, I fucked up and let em get a lil root bound in the first few days so between that and a transplant, they we're all looking pretty sad in this pic..  All clones from a local dispensary.





Alaskan Thunderfuck - ATF
Strawberry Cough
Northern Lights #5
Royal Kush


The ones looking the worst off to the right are Northern Lights #5.. 1 of my plants in my last grow was Northern Lights #5... It's the one that died off early due to what seemed like an overall sensitivity to everything I did, LoL.. All the other plants were fine besides the 1 time I nuked them.

When I went to get clones this time I saw northern lights and was disappointed but I got them anyways... Despite them seeming to follow tradition, I'm hoping I can come out with more positive results this go around.

That being said, the other strains are on the left and even in this early pic they we're all doing decent.. Now they are all looking much happier except for 1 Northern Lights straggling behind slightly, I think it didn't take to the transplant as well as the others... It's showing growth though, Just looks weak.


Anyways, I'll get some newer pics later today..

I'm running a 4x4x7 tent,  T5 8-tube 4foot long fluorescent at I believe 432 watts.  It's cold outside and the tent is in a garage so temp isn't a problem so far, might actually be to cold at times..

I do have a 1000watt HPS setup with ballast.. It's not dimmable however.. I also have a vented enclosure with glass bottom that I can put the HPS bulb inside, which can be air cooled with cold air... My only concern is, Will the 1,000 watt bulb be okay in the air cooled glass bottom hood? With an inline fan and cold air flow?  I mean, If it's not a hazard I believe I could keep the temps in the tent down and keep my plants relatively low in the 5foot range..

That's been a big question I need answered, Really appreciate it!


--------------------
:mushroom2: :mushroom2::mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:

"Dude, What did you take!? You walked off down the street naked and started talking to my neighbors lawn.."    -Talk to me!


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InvisiblephychotronM
weed pimp


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,491
Loc: Earth (mostly) Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: smokesnugz]
    #691455 - 11/02/13 01:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Those plants are too small to feed in soil. Soil has nutrients in it so that your plants can survive. Your plant needs to grow roots before it can take up nutrients, so you don't want to feed it a lot when its not able to take a lot. Once the plant starts growing again then feed it a light solution if you must feed it. You might not need to feed until in flower if your in the right soil; some people build soils so they can get through without feeding at all.

Notice how your stems are brown? Thats a bad sign for a plant that small, they should be green and growing fast. Once they pick up the pace you'll notice that all the new growth is a healthy green. They brown up when they're older and stalled up. Some plants are genetically more prone to looking dark, but never usually that small.

It needs a few more days to recover but if you leave it be for a bit it will slowly start to grow. Once the plant grows roots in its new pot and establishes itself it will start to grow on the top, when it has the root mass to support it. Right now they've been set to bonzai mode. Don't trim anything until its at least a foot tall (unless your topping/training them)

Plus when you get clones from a dispensary it could be from any idiot, which seems like they're the only one's bringing clones into a dispensary. They've always looked like crap every time I've seen them. Plus I've heard "I got a plant from the dispensary and now my plants are all infected with ..." too many times. Watch out for those plants.

Just order some seeds from one of the seed banks, you can get individual feminized seeds, and they will throw in a few free ones; their quantity depending on your total. They're good to play around with, you can explore strains and see what you like.

Get a ppm meter. Hanna is <$40 at most hydro stores.


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineMrshroom
Stranger

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 months, 2 hours
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: phychotron]
    #691490 - 11/03/13 12:31 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

phychotron is right... just order seeds.. it will be cheaper and easyer in the long run.. order seed of high quality strain ... hell you can just even order just one seed and turn it into your mother and have a nice supply of clones as long as u take care of the mother right and that one seed for 10-20 give or take, will save you money on clones for a very long time and end up paying for its self.

pluse as phychotron said you wont have to worry about getting mites and all that.. one of my buddies bought a clone and it had powdery mildew and it ended up spreading to his other  plants he had in his veg room and caused him to lose a good 10 plants...


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Offlinesmokesnugz
"The Naked Shroomer"
Male


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 8
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: phychotron]
    #691519 - 11/03/13 10:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, Definitely not feeding the babies I posted above, I don't have plans of doing so till they are ready =)

I have a pretty good general knowledge  of things, and am a common sense kinda person with relatively decent logic.. That being said, Thank you for the tips and keep em comin if you think of anything...

I'll work on getting some pics of how they are looking today.. just keeping them on fresh water, balanced PH.

18/6.


Oh and as for whether or not to go seed / clone... I have ridiculously ez quick access to a dispensary about 5 minutes away and can pickup or have what I need delivered.. I'm in tight on top of it and the delivery guy is like one of my best boys.

That being said, I personally prefer just getting clones that way for now at least.. I pay 10$ per clone and they are always about a month old when I get them giving me a head start right off the bat :smile:... The strain variety is high and I've not had bad results yet..

I'd like to Mother strains of course but I just currently don't have the ability to maintain a grow on the level I'd like to have..


I do agree with you on clones normally sucking in dispensaries.. I just happen to have an awesome dispensary right down the street from me that I got in tight with being an everyday costumer, they have always had quality clones and I tend to get hooked up with the best of them being friends with the owner as well as the budtender / delivery guy


--------------------
:mushroom2: :mushroom2::mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:

"Dude, What did you take!? You walked off down the street naked and started talking to my neighbors lawn.."    -Talk to me!


Edited by smokesnugz (11/03/13 10:58 AM)


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Offlinesmokesnugz
"The Naked Shroomer"
Male


Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 8
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: phychotron]
    #691525 - 11/03/13 11:04 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
Do you have a ppm meter? checking your pH? Soil or hydro?

I've never used the rhinoskin silica, but if I had to guess it would be the Advanced Nutrients line giving you the problems. Whenever I mixed up AN full strength they're always 1800+ppm's, which is about double of what it should be (for my setup.) I use the Gro-tek Pro-silicate at 0-0-3 and love the results. Its the first one I've tried, cheapest and hard to want to explore other brands.  Try the Humboldt Nutrients "Verde" as a foliar spray, that should help you cut back nutrients and still feel like your feeding the plant. Its a great product that I've added to my line up.

AN's pH down is amazing, as it is very strong--sometimes hard to use because the final adjustment comes down to a few drops. You probably don't need much of the B vitamins, and notice they have 2-1-4, so your adding more of those to your mix. If you want B-vitamins they make this product called Superthive that is b-vitamins and IBA (rooting hormone) that been around for ages. I'm not sure I can see a difference with the plant.

If your going with HN for you base it might be better to go with their full line than to piece one together, as they've designed their formula around the products that they sell. They have one called S.I (structural integrity) that looks like it would work. Not saying the Rhinoskin is bad, but there might be small differences in the formula. Same with the koolbloom (P-K), looks like the HN version is Ginormous.  Just to keep things simple, the price difference on these products is not very much.

In veg you should top the plant, not bottom it in order to let it get bushy, then after about 2-3 weeks in flower after its stretched and its apparent which branches are going to be wimpy then cut those down. Don't top within the week before flower so that the top nodes can form some chemicals that make it dominant and it grows more aggressively. Obviously some branches at the bottom you will know need to come off, but its best to leave them at first until you get the eye for it.

I think a lot of people need to start with something other than the grow bible. Growing plants is not as hard as it makes it out to be. Start with the basics and address the issues as they come up and build on your formula as you learn the plant. People tend to get the idea they need to follow the book exactly or they will not have good results.

Oh, and mix that silica with about a liter or two of water before you mix it into your final solution, that stuff is one of the few nutrients that raises the pH, which basically means that it forms solids with the other nutrients (which normally drop the pH.) Dilute it so it mixes without doing that--otherwise you might notice a bit of cloudiness when you add it in to the final solution.





Appreciate the response btw,  I wanted to point out the stems aren't actually brown. They are red. I believe it's either because they are clones, But I lean mostly towards believing it is because of a lower temperature in my grow area... It's only in like the mid to low 70's atm..  And no I do not have a ppm meter but plan on getting one as soon as possible.  Will return later with more answers to your post but I'm kinda anxious to check on the babies now that I been talkin so much about em this morning! haha :P



That being said! I am curious, What do you think about switching to HPS in my tent as long as I can control height and temp???

I got a 1,000watt hps.. With an inline and the cold winter air I got going on right now, Think it's viable?


Thanks again, Going to get some new updated pics for you guys now!


--------------------
:mushroom2: :mushroom2::mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:

"Dude, What did you take!? You walked off down the street naked and started talking to my neighbors lawn.."    -Talk to me!


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InvisibleCrushNazT
Male


Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 927
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: smokesnugz]
    #691540 - 11/03/13 12:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

might wanna start usin calmag. the purple stems could be a lack of magnesium. or its just the plant. but no matter what, ever time i've ever grown ive ALWAYS needed CalMag. even with my tap water now, which thankfully reads 0ppm :smile:


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InvisiblephychotronM
weed pimp


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,491
Loc: Earth (mostly) Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: CrushNazT]
    #691551 - 11/03/13 01:35 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I don't remember the exact cause of the stems darkening, but its usually a sign that the plant is not growing properly--I'm pretty sure its got something to do with a deficiency or excess. Your temps are fine. Its usually purplish/redish, but can look brown when dark enough.

Some plants are genetically prone to being dark, but usually when they are that small and growing they are lush green.  Your clones could have been taken from an older plant that was already darkened, which is probably what happened. They root, but the branch is not in its vigorous growth stage. Plants get momentum going, and if they loose it they stall out and take time to recover, if at all.  You want to solve all those problems in veg so that when you do put it into flower it has been growing vigorously and continues that pace. 

I went to the hydro store yesterday and asked what he thought about HN, and he said they're unstable, that they're good in veg but don't hold up in flower. Hard to tell cause you never really know if he actually knows what hes talking about, or who he's listening to.


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
weed pimp


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,491
Loc: Earth (mostly) Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: CrushNazT]
    #691554 - 11/03/13 01:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CrushNazT said:
might wanna start usin calmag. the purple stems could be a lack of magnesium. or its just the plant. but no matter what, ever time i've ever grown ive ALWAYS needed CalMag. even with my tap water now, which thankfully reads 0ppm :smile:




Its good to know where you stand on your cal/mg. Usually tap water has enough, but some people have really clean well water. Mine leaves a white residue on everything so I knew I'd be fine, but its still good to know that it's at 150ppms. I bought some cal/mg at first just in case of emergency but the plants do well without it. I will occasionally give them a dose or two or foliar spray with it, but I probably won't buy anymore when I run out.


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Offlinehamloaf
Biometric Precursor.


Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 164
Loc: Trinity County, CA Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: My Nute lineup - suggestions please! [Re: phychotron]
    #691595 - 11/03/13 04:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

A lack of phosphorus causes leaf stems and main veins to turn reddish-purple.  Toxic levels of phosphorus appear as deficiencies though too.

If it's a deficiency treat by lowering your PH to 5.5 - 6.0 and feeding the plants with a better balanced fertilizer that's slightly higher in phosphorus.

If it's toxic treat contaminated plants by flushing the growing medium with a mild and complete fertilizer.  If the toxicity is high, more water at a time will need to be flushed through the growing medium.  Toxic levels of phosphorus fuck with the uptake and stability of magnesium, calcium, iron, zinc and copper thus toxic levels of phosphorus can look like a deficiency of any of the aforementioned micronutrients.


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