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OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Expectation of war
    #683590 - 08/28/13 07:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

This is a long read. If it's too much to read, just go find something else. At this point, if you're going to just post TLTR, TL;DR or something similar, you're post whoring; so if the itch is strong, please go right ahead! - but everyone can see what you're doing.

I'm sure most of you have heard about the commotion in Syria, and how yet again the U.S. and U.K. accuse without doubt, use of WMDs (chemical weapons) based on their intelligence link. You've probably also heard the U.N. has sent inspectors, who may or may not find anything, with respect to a similar situation we had about a decade ago. It's also worth mentioning that the U.S. Defense secretary has repeated now that U.S. forces are positioned for invasion, should such a decision manifest.

The big problem I see here is, everyone now is expecting a U.S. led intervention; the expectation undermines any diplomacy the U.N. is capable of - the other question is, will they (the inspectors) actually find anything - and if they don't, is that enough to prevent the U.S.? Do U.N. inspections hold more weight in U.S. national security decisions, than their own intelligence does?

If there is war, it will be probably coined as among the most predictable wars in History. Both World wars were predicted and people knew they would happen, just because of how everyones chess pieces were positioned; they just didn't know how bad it could get - a timeless lesson, we learn over and over with war.

If there is any U.S. led war in Syria, many believe it will destabilize the region, which may not be great news for Israel... and we understand why that mess... However I don't it's necessarily the case of short term safety that's at stake here - I think destabilization will just lead to a loss of autonomy in the region. The insecurity and instability is just making it easier and easier for China to come in (while the flames are still burning), buy up all they can, and ultimately control more: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Iraq_relations)

So the next question then is, what about Iran? I don't think we should really fear Iran... because they will be bought. Iran is already very dependant on China because of U.S. embargoes. 

Most wealthy Arabs (I think) would sooner sell their assets to Russians and Chinese or form some codependance relations with them, than lose it in some U.S. led invasion with Israel tagging along; or become dependant on U.S. money as for example the Afghan and Israeli government have become. Either that, or they would blow themselves up first. Out of their own principles and hatred, I think that many countries in the Middle East would take sides with the Eastern powers, merely to preserve some sense of autonomy without the U.S. or Israel.

I find it difficult to come up with an argument as to how Israel and the U.S. will win in the long term here - they may soon be dealing with the puppets of China which may end up making a safer world based on deterrence... but is that what we want?

I ask because, the U.S. economy is partially based on a perpetual state of war. Guns and defensive weaponry make a lot of money and the president is the largest weapons merchant on the planet. It's cheaper for the U.S. to buy new weapons when they leave a warzone than it is to take the old weapons with them apparently. It's difficult to face the U.S. in battle because they are so advanced, big and cutting edge - to me it seems very logical for the U.S. to continue to invade countries, because the continuous drive in research and development as well as on going field experience is arguably the greatest weapon the U.S. has. The advanced knowledge is what secures the United States. China's only security is self destruction really... they're fucking sneaky, so I'm not going to make any serious assumptions about what China might have up their sleeve, but I've always believed that "if it's made in China, it's probably worth a piece of shit." That's my 2 cents there....

I can't see how China and the U.S. will ever face each other in war - it seems like certain death?

What do you guys think?


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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
Dreams of Oceans
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Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 588
Re: Expectation of war [Re: TomCollins] * 2
    #683597 - 08/28/13 09:55 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

From what I have read the impact on the overall US economy is no longer positive for war making.  Military intervention primarily benefits owners and stockholders involved with supplying the wars, not the economy in general.  What is taken from tax payers is not realized as a financial benefit to anyone but those with corporations that have done the right kind of lobbying.

I am concerned the chemical weapons are a false front by tactical groups within Washington that want to see us engaged in war.  I am highly skeptical that Syria is behind the use of chemical weapons.  I believe this is just as big of a deception as claiming WMD were aimed at the US by Saddam.  I think Syria might be playing the right cards by not allowing US or NATO involvement, thus restricting opportunities for covert ops to falsify evidence or spin what has occurred.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the current Syrian regime.  And I also realize I am not in Syria or Washington.  I don't have special information.  Just a sense that our government has become excessively dependent on dishonesty and misinformation at the expense of lives and independence.


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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OfflineRasJeph
Psycho Pete
Male


Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 11,628
Loc: Bumfuckt Egypt
Last seen: 1 month, 27 days
Re: Expectation of war [Re: TomCollins] * 1
    #683604 - 08/28/13 11:27 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DonkeyDong69 said:if you're going to just post TLTR, TL;DR or something similar, you're post whoring; so if the itch is strong, please go right ahead!




:bigyesnod:


--------------------
Of course it's happening inside your head.
Why should that mean it isn't real?


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InvisibleP-O
 Arcade Champion: Simon


Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,561
Re: Expectation of war [Re: RasJeph] * 2
    #683624 - 08/28/13 01:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Ill give my take on all this.  I wont read spencys tho.... hes crazier then a wing nut and its TLDR


Should we blow up Syria next?  No!  This same BS the press was pushing with Iraq,  Egypt, and Libya.    Our government wants to control that whole region so it does not take a genius to see the scam they are pulling..... 


"OH got we must blow up the country and kill the president without trial to save those people"

Same BS we did to all the other countries.....  Our media claims the government gassed his own people.  This does not make any sense.  why would he gas random people and children.... What makes more sense : Rebels working with CIA gassed them.  This way they can get public support for western intervention.



Dont believe what the news tells you


Edited by P-O (08/28/13 03:12 PM)


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InvisibleP-O
 Arcade Champion: Simon


Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,561
Re: Expectation of war [Re: P-O]
    #683654 - 08/28/13 05:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)



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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
Dreams of Oceans
Male


Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 588
Re: Expectation of war [Re: P-O] * 1
    #683656 - 08/28/13 06:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PositiveOutlook said:





Interesting piece, but I don't trust RT.  It is a serious propaganda machine.  They drive a harder agenda than CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc....


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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InvisibleDeadkndys420
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Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 7,833
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Re: Expectation of war [Re: P-O]
    #683657 - 08/28/13 06:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PositiveOutlook said:
"OH got we must blow up the country and kill the president without trial to save those people"



The US has no intention to kill Assad...

Quote:

"The options that we are considering are not about regime change," said during a daily briefing with reporters. "They are about responding to the clear violation of an international standard that prohibits the use of chemical weapons."





Source

Quote:

PositiveOutlook said:

Our media claims the government gassed his own people.  This does not make any sense.  why would he gas random people and children.




What about Saddam Hussein who gassed his own people in the late 80s? Was the CIA behind that too?

:rolleyes:


Edited by Deadkndys420 (08/28/13 06:27 PM)


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 13,294
Re: Expectation of war [Re: CrayolaHalls]
    #683701 - 08/29/13 12:31 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CrayolaHalls said:
From what I have read the impact on the overall US economy is no longer positive for war making.  Military intervention primarily benefits owners and stockholders involved with supplying the wars, not the economy in general.  What is taken from tax payers is not realized as a financial benefit to anyone but those with corporations that have done the right kind of lobbying.

I am concerned the chemical weapons are a false front by tactical groups within Washington that want to see us engaged in war.  I am highly skeptical that Syria is behind the use of chemical weapons.  I believe this is just as big of a deception as claiming WMD were aimed at the US by Saddam.  I think Syria might be playing the right cards by not allowing US or NATO involvement, thus restricting opportunities for covert ops to falsify evidence or spin what has occurred.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the current Syrian regime.  And I also realize I am not in Syria or Washington.  I don't have special information.  Just a sense that our government has become excessively dependent on dishonesty and misinformation at the expense of lives and independence.





This.  But not the CIA or any of us doing. Possibly the rebels themselves is who we could possibly be looking at.  They have something to gain by making the US and Israel believe is was the government behind it.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineThebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
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Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,525
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 22 days, 41 minutes
Re: Expectation of war [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #683708 - 08/29/13 12:54 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

It would be nice if we could just not be at war for once since i became a teenager. :shrug: I'm cool with taking out fascist leadership, not even just because it's wrong but because long term it just perpetuates a state of non-advancement.  Other than all the surplus arms we give them, have you seen what Libyan and Syrian Rebels made weapons platforms out of? Fucking flat bed trucks and other junkers, I can't even imagine getting into the frame of mind to want to make a tank out of a truck.


--------------------
"To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic."

"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

I am tired of Earth
I am tired of these people


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 13,294
Re: Expectation of war [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #683711 - 08/29/13 12:58 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Oh I agree.  It's complete bullshit.  I don't want anything to do with this war.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleP-O
 Arcade Champion: Simon


Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,561
Re: Expectation of war [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #683714 - 08/29/13 01:28 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

210


Mccain says he hears the bombing will start thursday (tomorrow) and last 3 days....



The interesting part is Russia and China are totally Against this Attack.  Im hoping it does not escalate into something huge


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InvisibleP-O
 Arcade Champion: Simon


Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,561
Re: Expectation of war [Re: P-O]
    #683715 - 08/29/13 01:37 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)



this video says thursday too.... its less propaganda like faux or Cnn (which brodcast pro-war/Attack ).    Sounds like shits gonna get wild!!


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OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: Expectation of war [Re: CrayolaHalls] * 1
    #684437 - 09/07/13 04:23 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CrayolaHalls said:
From what I have read the impact on the overall US economy is no longer positive for war making.  Military intervention primarily benefits owners and stockholders involved with supplying the wars, not the economy in general.  What is taken from tax payers is not realized as a financial benefit to anyone but those with corporations that have done the right kind of lobbying.




Perhaps you are right about that. Nonetheless an industry of this magnitude will have some powerful lobbies with huge money and the U.S. has the largest arms industry of all. So I guess your government will be torn between the taxpayer dollar and contributions by the arms industry. :thumbup:


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


Edited by TomCollins (09/07/13 04:32 AM)


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