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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Registered: 07/26/13
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First grow (New Here)
    #679351 - 07/26/13 10:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Hey, alright, so I'm new here- From the shroomery.

Anyways, I have the following space to grow.
I have 1 seed that is feminized.

I'd like to use a DWC system for this.

My question is, after looking at the picture attached, would it be realistic to build a 1 plant growspace with a budget of about 200$?

After reading extensively through the forums, and I have decided the best way to proceed would be to cover the walls with that reflective bubble wrap stuff (I forget what it's called), and make a forced air carbon filter (How big would it have to be for my area.

However, I am unsure what light to use, and what nutrients to add to the water.

Can anyone point me to a few guids on DWC and lights? The lights are all very confusing, they have like different gasses and stuff and idk what to use.

Finally, is there a way to get feminised seeds (I am unclear on this) from my one plant so I don't have to buy any more?


Pic attached, it's the space I have:

I could add an electrical outlet in the ceiling for the light, and I plan on putting the carbon filter up there as well (As the ceiling is not yet done constructing) before closing everything up.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if i missed anything, but i used the search function extensively.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #679352 - 07/26/13 10:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

My question is, after looking at the picture attached, would it be realistic to build a 1 plant growspace with a budget of about 200$?




The light will cost more then that. For that space a 400watt would be good.

You could leave the walls white and that would be fine.

I don't use filter so you may have to google that one.

MH light for vegging and a HPS for flowering.

There is a lot of info on the web on how to make femenized seeds but your a long way from doing that.


--------------------
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Invisibleresincoatedlungs
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: Magash]
    #679355 - 07/26/13 10:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The light will cost more then that.



Ehh, not necessarily. Ebay had some pretty damn good deals on HID lights.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400w-400-watt-HPS-MH-Grow-Light-System-Set-Premium-Kit-Dimm-Green-House-iPower-/160683199645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item2569770c9d
- W/ basic reflector, digital ballast, hangers, and stock hps bulb = 111.69 free shipping

http://www.ebay.com/itm/iPower-250w-400w-600w-1000w-watt-HPS-MH-Grow-Light-System-Kit-Dimm-Green-House-/180877784621?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item2a1d27f62d
- W/ basic reflector, digital ballast, hangers, and stock hps bulb = 113.91 free shipping.

Mine is an apollo horticulture brand, 400w, digital ballast with reflector and all(Probably just the name on the mass-produced ballast, though.) and I got it for about $130.

Just a rough pricelist:
400w HPS - 112.00 (Remember, with a digital ballast you can just switch from MH bulb to HPS bulb without having to buy a whole new light setup.)
Bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest - $20 - $40 (20 if you buy at a hydro store, 40 if you have to get it shipped.)
Fox Farm Qt. Trio Base Nutes - 54.00
Ph strips - $3.00

So a minimum of $189.00
Or a maximum of $209.00

With enough soil, strips, and nutrients to last you at least 3 or 4 grows in a 5 gallon container, and a light that should be a one-time buy (But if I were you, I'd go ahead and buy an Ultra Sun bulb for the light). Remember to cut Ocean Forest with a little extra perlite.

This is for a soil setup, but it you want a cheap yet easy way to do dwc you could do something like this:

Basic DWC Pricelist:

Gro-Momma Bubbler Bucket - $55.00 Free shipping
Fox Farm qt Trio Hydro Nutrients - $54.00 Free Shipping
400w HPS - $112.00 Free Shipping

So about $221.00 for a dwc setup.

Budget growing FTW :thumbup:


Edited by resincoatedlungs (07/26/13 11:08 PM)


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OfflinePed
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #679358 - 07/26/13 10:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Just a few weeks into my first go-around, I'm still quite new myself, but I can share with you what I've learned from my research and my experience so far.

If you want to continue the genetics beyond the lifecycle of one plant, just take some cuttings.

Your budget being what it is, there is no way you'll be able to use all of that space.  I'd recommend you grow in a cabinet.  Or you could install an artificial ceiling in there to cut down on its height. 

By decreasing the volume of the room, you will decrease the amount of air-exchange you need, which helps you work within your budget.  My experience has been that air-exchange is really, really important.

As has been stated, a proper lighting setup will consume most if not all of your budget.  My sense is that you'll be going with high-output compact fluorescent lamps.  They won't get you the kind of yield that an HID setup would (HID = metal halide (MH), high pressure sodium (HPS)), but they will get the job done if you get the right ones.  The advantage with them is that they're reasonably low-heat, and can be moved around so that your plant can be exposed to light from all directions.

You might be able to harvest an adequate blower fan from a junk yard or something.  As long as it can move the total volume of air from your space three times per minute, it should be fine.  It shouldn't be too difficult in small space.  The filter you build should be something like this..  You could probably connect your filter to your blower with a piece of dryer hose from the same junk yard.  Just make sure you clean everything thoroughly before you set it up.  Nothing new enters my grow space without first being cleansed in a borax solution.

I am currently using these nutrients..  I imagine if you can find something with similar ratios for less money, that would be a great option for you.

Hope this helps!


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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: Ped]
    #679360 - 07/26/13 11:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

His, thanks for the info everyone. I plan on growing Cristal Paradise - KC Brains. My upper budget limit is perhaps 300-350$, 200$ isn't strictly set in stone.

Anyways, the area is about 55 cubic feet (3 feet by 2 feet by 9 feet)
So a 150 CFM blower should do the trick, right? (I can get these free.)
I was planning on building my own carbon filter as well, which I know how to do relatively easily. It will output to behind the closet, which is a basement.

The room this is being grown in is realitively clean, and by clean i mean at around ISO 10,000 cleanroom standard clean (After everything is sealed up and the filters are running)

I will look into getting a digital ballast light, but 400 watts should be enough for my one plant in that space, right?
This is a digital ballast, right? (I will order this if this is good. What options should I select> The HPS and MH cost like 60 friggin bucks, holy cow that's expensive bulbs)
What reflector/hood should I get? there dosen't seem to be a price difference there.

Anyhow, the DWC system itself is relatively simple - a big bucket from lowes, (not the 5 gallon ones, the bigger ones) an air pump, and an air stone from my plocal fishstore, and the little net thingie and the nutes. In the post above me, will thoes nutes work for DWC, or is that for soil?

Thanks for all your help guys thus far.


EDIT- I am in canada. I just realised these people do not ship to canada. crud. Is there a local vendor where i can buy a light on ebay that you guys reccomend?


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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #679361 - 07/26/13 11:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Canada edit-
I found the following:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400-Watt-Ballast-400W-Hydro-Grow-Light-Kit-HPS-MH-/250650101079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item3a5be90557&_uhb=1


Is this good?
Dosent seem as feautred as the other one, but eh..


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Invisibleresincoatedlungs
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #679362 - 07/26/13 11:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Well, it costs more than the ones I posted, and like you said it isn't as featured, so I personally would have to pass on it.
Unless this shipping in the links I posted added up more because you're in canada?

The breakdown of a HID (High intensity discharge)light.

Ballast:


Reflector/socket:


Whole basic setup:


Quote:

I will look into getting a digital ballast light, but 400 watts should be enough for my one plant in that space, right?



Oh I guess I should explain.
With high-intensity lighting like used in growing, there are Metal halide lights and High Pressure Sodium Lights.
With a magnetic ballast, you have to buy one for the HPS and one for the MH, and the magnetics run hotter.
With a digital ballast, you can switch between MH and HPS bulbs without changing the ballast, they run much cooler, and most have dimmable knobs on them.
You can have 150, 250, 400, 600, or even 1000 watts and use a digital ballast. The ballast is just the powerhouse for the light, basically.

Yeah a 400w should do great in that area, what is it about 3ft x 3ft?


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:psycho:

Man Eater

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Edited by resincoatedlungs (07/26/13 11:47 PM)


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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: resincoatedlungs]
    #679366 - 07/26/13 11:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

They just dont plain ship to canada. Yea, it's 2 feet and a bit by about 3 feet, 9 feet tall.

Will this be enough?


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Invisibleresincoatedlungs
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #679367 - 07/27/13 12:06 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I see what you mean.
Yeah that'll work no problem. :thumbup:
Here's one that looks like a little better quality, dimmable switch, comes with extra stuff like a timer and hangers, and ships to canada. :yesnod:
It's just a little more expensive, but the one you posted would do the job no problem, and it has a digital ballast so you're in the clear.


--------------------
:psycho:

Man Eater

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Edited by resincoatedlungs (07/27/13 12:19 AM)


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OfflinePed
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #679369 - 07/27/13 12:59 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That light setup on eBay looks fine to me.  Probably not top-notch merchandise, but I bet it'll serve your purposes well.

>> So a 150 CFM blower should do the trick, right?

Rated CFM will never be the same as operating CFM.  The carbon filter, and the friction from the duct (especially bends in the duct) will cut this number down.  With 25 feet of duct, two bends, and a similar carbon filter, my setup only got an initial 171 CFM from a fan rated at 269 CFM.  Without the filter, I was getting 224 CFM.  This is 63% and 83%, respectively.

As my space is 190 cu. ft., with 7 cannabis plants and 6 tomato seedlings, I ended up having to buy another fan.  That website, by the way, could prove valuable to you as a Canadian.

If you can get free blowers, considering having separate one to cool your bulb.  This gives you a lot more control over the environment, and it enables you to run CO2 in there as well, as you can keep air flowing over your bulb while shutting off the extractor during CO2 infusions.  In a space small enough for one plant, you could probably get your CO2 from a simple and affordable fermentation process.

Some clip art and a few minutes in photoshop illustrates the setup I'll have next time around:




>> and by clean i mean at around ISO 10,000 cleanroom standard clean

I'd be very interested in learning how to accomplish this. 


>> In the post above me, will thoes nutes work for DWC, or is that for soil?

Yes, sorry, those are my soil nutes.  You need different nutes for DWC, as far as I know.  I plan to do DWC next time - until I have experience I won't presume to advise you.  The one thing that I've read time and time again with DWC is that O2 saturation and pH control both require a lot of careful attention.


--------------------


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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: Ped]
    #679371 - 07/27/13 01:47 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

>>I'd be very interested in learning how to accomplish this. 
room is positive pressure, there is an exhaust leading to outside that draws out air at a steady rate. All air coming in is filtered by a 99.999% efficient HEPA filter. (Not thoes paper filters you stick in your vacuum, actual HEPA filters- yes, the sames ones NASA use :wink:.

I also have a flowhood to provide class 100 cleanroom air in the area I am immediately working in, (My laminar flowhood blows air through an ULPA filter)
The filter itself goes from 400-1500$ a peice, plus the pre-filters (Unless you want to be replacing your 1000$ filter every month- prefilters are cheap shit, the 100$ ones you find for home air purification)

The constant ambient air after the door is closed and seled and the filters running for half an hour is 4600 -11200 or so particles per cubic foot. Infront of the laminar flowhood, there's less than 100 per cubic foot of air coming out.

As for c02, I have n2 and co2 tanks (Straight up tanks) Could I use thoes for this? (For example if the plan needs c02 feed it into the pump system so the air coming up has more co2 in it?

I have a device that makes liquid n2/o2/co2 ect, so i could perhaps make some liquid o2 and then let it sublimate in the grow area to increase oxygen content or something. (This is in a bio lab. I have made some fancy shit over the years)

>> Yes, sorry, those are my soil nutes.  You need different nutes for DWC, as far as I know.  I plan to do DWC next time - until I have experience I won't presume to advise you.  The one thing that I've read time and time again with DWC is that O2 saturation and pH control both require a lot of careful attention.

Alright, i will look into more info on DWC.
I'd prefer to buy from a vendor that ships from canada, i don't want to have to tell customs again why im ordering crap like this (Explaining why i needed a cleanroom to customs was a royal pain in the ass, and ordering maryjane grow equipment will probably put me on another list and raise 10 more of the hundreds of red flags that have already been raised.

In short, domestic is best.


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OfflinePed
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #679375 - 07/27/13 03:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

>> All air coming in is filtered by a 99.999% efficient HEPA filter.

>> I also have a flowhood to provide class 100 cleanroom air in the area I am immediately working in

You sir are in a very good position.  You sound like a mycologist or a spore vendor.


>> As for c02, I have n2 and co2 tanks (Straight up tanks) Could I use thoes for this?

Jesus Christ, yes.  Do that.  Retail CO2 setups are notoriously expensive, because they are generally accepted as profoundly beneficial.  I've read many testimonials celebrating the benefits of CO2 induction - I don't think I've ever come across information to the contrary.


>> if the plan needs c02 feed it into the pump system so the air coming up has more co2 in it?

During CO2s induction, air extraction has to stop, otherwise the vast majority of it will be sucked away before the plants get a chance to use it.  From what I've read (no direct experience until next grow), the strategy involves running timers.  Every hour, timers halt the extractor and initiate the release of CO2 is into the environment.  After 15 minutes, the CO2 release stops and the extractor kicks back in, beginning the next cycle. 

Without CO2, your extractor is running continuously.  With CO2, it cycles between 45 minutes on and 15 minutes off during the lumen cycle.  CO2 is not needed during the dark cycle, as there is no photosynthesis during that time.

CO2 is a major plus, as near as I can tell.  I will definitely be implementing it next time.  For now, I periodically don some SPF50 and a pair of shades and just hang out in my garden with a book.


>> I have a device that makes liquid n2/o2/co2 ect,

If you want to grow cannabis, having such a device is profound asset.  Put it to good use!

You'll want to confine the O2 to the root zone, as it is of no benefit to the foliage.  O2 is everything to the roots, especially when it comes to hydroponics.  Most people fortify their solution with high-concentration H2O2, which releases oxygen as it decomposes in an agitated aqueous solution. 

Since too much H2O2 can both damage the roots and kill beneficial bacteria, my plan is to construct a drip reactor to capture molecular oxygen from hydrogen peroxide and sodium hypochlorite, feeding the gaseous oxygen directly into the root bath.  We'll see how that goes when the time comes.


>> I'd prefer to buy from a vendor that ships from canada

These people have been great to me so far.  They ship out of Elie, Manitoba.


--------------------


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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: Ped]
    #679378 - 07/27/13 04:06 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm going to check a local hydro shop and see if i can get a better deal. Ped, they seem to be overpricing their stuff, haha.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: TheUnknownPoet] * 1
    #679384 - 07/27/13 06:14 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You know adding additional CO2 is extremely overrated. Constant air flow is far more important. There is a reason not one single name breeder is using and hasn't used if for years. If your gonna be running your exhaust fans on a cycle then maybe it can help.
I've been under the lights since 1985 and used it for years. Then I switched to constant air flow when I started doing multiple gardens (8 right now) and becoming friends with many of the breeders in Amsterdam and tapping their heads for info. Not one bit of difference either in yield or time to harvest. If I could have the money back that I spent on the co2 set up and all the co2 I used for years I'd take it back in a second.
I've read in so many books about how great it is but have yet to ever see it do jack shit. I make my living growing buds, clones, hash, and seeds for the clubs and if was a big help I'd use it right away. Written articles and studies on it are fine but until I see a difference in a garden with it do better then one with constant air flow I'll be happy to jump on the co2 band wagon.

When I see sellers talking about it on sites like youtube and crap they are always comparing to sealed gardens without it but never to gardens with constant air flow.

The only time I tell people to use it is in fully inclosed systems. No fresh air being brought in and using air conditioners and de-humidifiers for air and temp quality. (most ac's can handle the de-humidifing job). In that case they have no choice but to use it.

:happyweed:

My work

I was told this could't be done




:wink:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: Magash]
    #679386 - 07/27/13 10:41 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
You know adding additional CO2 is extremely overrated. Constant air flow is far more important. There is a reason not one single name breeder is using and hasn't used if for years. If your gonna be running your exhaust fans on a cycle then maybe it can help.
I've been under the lights since 1985 and used it for years. Then I switched to constant air flow when I started doing multiple gardens (8 right now) and becoming friends with many of the breeders in Amsterdam and tapping their heads for info. Not one bit of difference either in yield or time to harvest. If I could have the money back that I spent on the co2 set up and all the co2 I used for years I'd take it back in a second.
I've read in so many books about how great it is but have yet to ever see it do jack shit. I make my living growing buds, clones, hash, and seeds for the clubs and if was a big help I'd use it right away. Written articles and studies on it are fine but until I see a difference in a garden with it do better then one with constant air flow I'll be happy to jump on the co2 band wagon.

When I see sellers talking about it on sites like youtube and crap they are always comparing to sealed gardens without it but never to gardens with constant air flow.

The only time I tell people to use it is in fully inclosed systems. No fresh air being brought in and using air conditioners and de-humidifiers for air and temp quality. (most ac's can handle the de-humidifing job). In that case they have no choice but to use it.

:happyweed:

My work

I was told this could't be done






:wink:




Nice work mag. I want to see some of your gsc you grew or are growing.:jah:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
    #679387 - 07/27/13 11:10 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nice work mag. I want to see some of your gsc you grew or are growing.




Pics will be coming very soon. Harvest is on the 19th of Aug.

:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: Magash]
    #679395 - 07/27/13 01:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
Quote:

Nice work mag. I want to see some of your gsc you grew or are growing.




Pics will be coming very soon. Harvest is on the 19th of Aug.

:happyweed:



:stayfunky: sweet !


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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
    #679410 - 07/27/13 08:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #679411 - 07/27/13 08:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That light would be good man!:thumbup:


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Invisibleresincoatedlungs
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Re: First grow (New Here) [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #679412 - 07/27/13 08:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah that light'll do ya just fine. :thumbup:
DWC is just another form of hydroponics so any hydro nutes you settle on should get the job done.
I personally used Fox Farm nutrients in soil, and have every intention of using them in hydro. A lot of people will agree with me, and some will disagree.
It's really up to you, just check out some grows with people using the nute line you're thinking about in a dwc setup, with a 400w light. :yesnod:


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