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 GreenHorns
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 I think it's time to go hydro 
#678615 - 07/18/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Getting over soil and mess and fungus gnats. I'm thinking nutrient film tek for what I've got happening is what I'll do. Time to do some mother fucking shopping.
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 P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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 Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678622 - 07/18/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: P-O]
#678637 - 07/18/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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NTF works well but I have to admit I fully hate that method with a passion. DWC or Ebb and flow are the methods I like but that is just a personal preference.
June 10th
Two and a half weeks later
July 6th
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GreenHorns
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678641 - 07/18/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I was thinking NTF for less moving parts. My knowledge of hydro ATM is scanning that section of the grow bible a couple times. Holy shit those plants stretch like Armstrong don't they.
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Magash
The Feminizer
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Posts: 6,634
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678646 - 07/18/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I wanted to get a little size out of them so I gave them a full strength veg solution even though they were in flowering until I saw buds starting. Seemed to work.
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GreenHorns
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678653 - 07/18/13 10:00 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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They bloomed well with npk ratios of a veg solution? What numbers are your veg ferts?
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Magash
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678660 - 07/18/13 11:05 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I used Fox Farm Grow Big for soil. I like the numbers of the soil version better so I use it in hydro. Using a veg solution during budding won't stop it from budding, if you continue to use it it will just cause leafy buds. I myself switch to a budding solution once I see buds starting.
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GreenHorns
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678670 - 07/19/13 06:19 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hmmmmmmm. I'm curious about mixing it up like that. All I have ever used is one part mixes from advanced nutrients. And I'm having trouble up the wazoo getting consistency lately. And its just about time to reup.
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UltimateDevotion
TwistedByDesign
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678684 - 07/19/13 10:05 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm looking forward to making a DWC set up after I get a few more soil grows under my belt. 
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Magash
The Feminizer
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Why waste the time go hydro now. I made a DWC setup out of cat litter buckets and crap from a old 150 gallon aquarium. The air pumps and airstones. Then a few small net pots.
and some lava rocks (which I always use to use for hydro over hydroton or geolite) to hold the rooted cutting in place.
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UltimateDevotion
TwistedByDesign
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678694 - 07/19/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's what I'll do! I still have ffof so do some soil and hydro side by side for comparison. 
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Harry Detroit in 304 made one last promise now
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GreenHorns
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Yeah time to get on the shopping. What's a good way to determine reservoir size?
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Magash
The Feminizer
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678765 - 07/19/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would go 3 or 4 times the amount needed to supply the system.
Myself I tend to go way over so I don't have to change the res as often.
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volcomstoner
Just one more xanax
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678791 - 07/20/13 12:13 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I never really understood growing hydroponically, it seemed like it would be more work that really isn't all that necessary. I mean it does seem like you have a lot more control over your plants "enviroment" but I guess it might just be something more useful for more experienced growers.
I could be wrong though, I've honestly done zero research in hydroponics, outdoor grows have always seemed the most interesting/less complicated to me, with certain methods of indoor soil grows right behind that.
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resincoatedlungs
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: volcomstoner]
#678792 - 07/20/13 12:23 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I pretty much agree 100% with you, there.
I can see the advantages of indoor soil growing vs outdoor growing, but hydro vs soil seems like way more time, effort, and money invested with little difference overall apart from speed of growth.
I'd love to be sold on hydro, if it were cheaper per gram of bud grown I'd consider it, but overall it just doesn't seem worth it for small scale growing.
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volcomstoner
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Exactly, I've never seen it have a large outcome on the final product, I mean maybe the full control of nutrients could help with the end wight? Doubtful that it has a very large impact, also it could be easier to stop nutrient burn very early on. But seems like it would be easy to cause nutrient burn as well. I'd think you could flush the plants better, but it seems common in my are that when people say they grew their weed hydroponically its usually hasn't been flushed and tastes awful.
I plan on doing a lot more research into the benefits, although I'm sure I won't be convinced to ever switch from the simplicity of a soil grom.
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Magash
The Feminizer
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Your both wrong on both aspects. Once a system is set up it is way less work then soil growing. Everything is done at the reservoir. Usually you can get away with topping it off once a week. You don't have to water every plant individually and if you want to go someplace for more then a few days you don't need to worry about watering. You use more water and nutrients with soil then hydro. Most the water in soil grows is evaporated rather then used by the plant. Then there is over feeding. When done with soil you have to do a massive amount of flushing with hydro just change the reservoir.
The the cost. Yeah it's more to start up with but when you have to buy new soil every batch and your using something like Fox Farm Ocean Forest then the costs even up fast.
I use to do all my gardens soil but changed to hydro 1 for the faster growth and 2 it is just way less of a pain in the ass then soil.
As far as yield these are only half way done.
Easily gonna hit a pound in a 4x4 space
As far as taste people who don't run plain water the last week or two are what we call retards. Wether soil or hydro there has to be a flushing process.
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volcomstoner
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678797 - 07/20/13 12:41 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I had a feeling Magash would come in here and spread some knowledge proving me wrong 
I still do think I would stick to soil, I'll consider hydro if I ever put a full commitment and grow full time though.
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Magash
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: volcomstoner]
#678798 - 07/20/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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With a large garden it is just huge pain to do soil though I do love soil.
Here is a copy of a post I did 3 years ago when I did a test of hydro. The post is called "The Organic Myth" if you want to look up the original post.
Ok, I have been growing since the mid 80’s and the entire time I’ve heard how organic bud is better tasting and such. I always felt that this was true just cause when you listen to why it is suppose to be better then buds grown with synthetics or chemical nutrients it seems to make sense. Then I saw this show called bullshit with Penn and Teller and the subject was organic food. I saw the test that they did and I just had to do em with buds.
Well the test was done at 3 different clubs and with a group of growers in Mendocino County. The strain used was Granddaddy Purple.
People were allowed to try free samples of organic grown and buds grown with General Hydroponics nutrients. Flora Nova and Kool Blooms.
Now the samples
2 plates of buds with labels showing but the buds switched. Organic buds in the hydro plate and hydro buds in the organic plate. 2 plates with no labels and the buds were in the right plate. Then for fun (he he he ) two sets of plates one with organic buds in both plates and one with hydro buds in both plates.
The results.
Buds in the right plate but no labels showing 73% of people picked the hydro buds as better tasting and smoking buds.
Buds in the plates with the labels showing but with the buds switched 87% picked the organic side with the hydro buds in the plate. (Even so far as going and saying they can taste the soil then getting very pissed when shown the bud they picked)
Then the same buds divided into two and put into labeled plates. So what I mean here is buds from the same plant put into two plates with different labels to see if anybody would notice. In both sets of plates 87% of people again picked the Organic as better tasting in both sets even though it was the same bud divided into two plates. I heard comments on how the organic tasted “earthy cleaner, less salty, and one who insisted that the organic buds burnt better then got pissed when told he picked hydro in every instance.
Both sets of buds were flushed for one week before harvesting.
Conclusion is that properly grown hydro buds seems to be as good in every way as organic buds.
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The hydro system I use works on this principal
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resincoatedlungs
Brickweed Aficionado
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678799 - 07/20/13 01:10 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm definitely not an organics snob, as long as there aren't any contaminants in the bud, I'm fine with it.
Quote:
You use more water and nutrients with soil then hydro. Most the water in soil grows is evaporated rather then used by the plant. Then there is over feeding. When done with soil you have to do a massive amount of flushing with hydro just change the reservoir.
This is kind of the answer I was looking for. Most of my money spent goes to water and soil. But to get down to the point, would you say the cost is about even in the end for the amount grown, cheaper, or more expensive? If it's cheaper, I may go for it. If it's about even, there better be noticable yield increase.
Quote:
I had a feeling Magash would come in here and spread some knowledge proving me wrong
I'll admit, I may have been  for a Magash answer, too easy. I figured there had to be some big point to it if you've started to really promote hydro.
EDIT:What would you call that specific type of system?
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Man Eater 12
Edited by resincoatedlungs (07/20/13 01:20 AM)
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Not really that I"m promoting it I'm just telling what I prefer after doing years of growing with both methods.
Quote:
would you say the cost is about even in the end for the amount grown, cheaper, or more expensive? If it's cheaper,
Well like I said earlier the cost is gonna be more at first but once going you use less of everything other then light simply cause it's a more efficient way of using the water and the nutrients.
Quote:
If it's about even, there better be noticable yield increase.
There are when done right. Remember not only are you delivering the water and nutrients more efficiently every time the system floods the pots the air in the geolite is pushed out. Then when it goes back to the reservoir new air is drawn into the geolite so not only do the roots get fresh nutrient solution ever few hours but fresh air also.
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resincoatedlungs
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678802 - 07/20/13 01:36 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well, then I've got a few more questions. 
-Would the container size for hydro be equal per plant as soil? (If I keep plants in 5gal containers for soil, how much room does that equal to in hydro? 5 gal?)
-How often are the buckets filled and for how long? How long do they stay empty?
-For two 5 gal containers, that'd need a 10 gal reservoir, right? How many GPH does the pump need to be and how easy could 10 gallons of water heat up with that pump?
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Man Eater 12
Edited by resincoatedlungs (07/20/13 01:41 AM)
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Magash
The Feminizer
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Quote:
-Would the container size for hydro be equal per plant as soil? (If I keep plants in 5gal containers for soil, how much room does that equal to in hydro? 5 gal?)
No, with hydro you can use much smaller pots. What is grown in a 7 gallon pot with soil can be done in a 2 gallon pot hydro. Simply cause everything is being delivered to the roots.
Quote:
-How often are the buckets filled and for how long? How long do they stay empty?
Depends on how hot it is in your area and such but you can go every 3 hours in most places. Myself I flood every 2 hours. Takes about 15 minutes for them to fill then 15 to return the nutrient solution to the res the rest of the time they can get nutrients and water from the coated geolite.
Quote:
-For two 5 gal containers, that'd need a 10 gal reservoir, right?
No because the geolite takes up most the space in the 5 gallon containers.
Quote:
How many GPH does the pump need to be and how easy could 10 gallons of water heat up with that pump?
That depends on the size of the system and pump heat isn't a issue at all. Remember the pumps only run for 15 minutes at a time.
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resincoatedlungs
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678804 - 07/20/13 02:27 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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My maximum under a 400w light would be 2 or 3 plants in 5gal soil each lst'd or scrog'd, you're saying I could just use a little over a gallon (about 1 & 1/3 gal, maybe 1.5 gal) per plant to reach the same size?
For 2 plants the way I'd do them, a 5 or even 10 gallon reservoir, and about a 3 gallon controller would work just fine?
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Edited by resincoatedlungs (07/20/13 02:39 AM)
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Magash
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Quote:
I've had a 50-80 gph pump sitting around for a while, that would just just fine then for 2 plants, right?
Yes easily.
Quote:
you're saying I could just use a little over a gallon (about 1 & 1/3 gal) per plant to reach the same size?
Yup
Quote:
So, for 2 plants the way I'd do them, I'm looking at having a roughly 1.5-2 gallon reservoir, and about the same size controller? Sounds too small to work well doesn't it?
I'd go with a 5 or 10 gallon res just so I don't have to fuck with it very much. With 5 or 10 gallons you would just have to add water once a week or so between times when you change the nutrient solution. Remember the plants use water faster then nutrients so the more water they use the more concentrate your nutrients become. This changes the ph. So once a week or so add some water and adjust the ph. Takes about 5 minutes with my set up and I have a 55 gallon res.
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GreenHorns
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678809 - 07/20/13 07:15 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yup Mag hit the nail on the head several times over. More yield, more uniformity, more control, less mixing, no transplanting, less pests. Every angle I look at it my garden would benefit. And I would get angry less
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GreenHorns
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678810 - 07/20/13 07:32 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm wishing my seedlings weren't in soil cause I want to change over now. I might just flower them under my led in another room just so I can get my hydro setup going as soon as I harvest this batch.
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GreenHorns
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678812 - 07/20/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Did some more research and I'm sold on nft. Got my RES and an airstone now I just have to get the everything else. Hey Mag you know what common option for channels or troughs are?
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678817 - 07/20/13 11:04 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hey Mag you know what common option for channels or troughs are?
?
For a NFT system?
What do you mean by channels? I'm guessing the trays that hold the plants and the solution runs through in a NFT set up.?
Sorry it took a bit to answer but I gotta sleep sometime 
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GreenHorns
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678818 - 07/20/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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No worries dude I'm not rushing into it. Yeah I see a lot of PVC but all circular. I'm wanting nice flush net pots against the channel so I don't have light leaks.
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Magash
The Feminizer
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678819 - 07/20/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've seen a lot of NFT set ups with rain gutters as the channels. Two of them glued to gether to make a square shaped channel. I never got to into this method of hydroponics cause of the pumps having to run constantly.
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Magash
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678822 - 07/20/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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GreenHorns
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678823 - 07/20/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh shit rain gutters! The part that folds down the side of the house would be ideal! Yeah the pump running constantly would be a risk to iron out.
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GreenHorns
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678824 - 07/20/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wont light on roots be an issue with that setup?
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: GreenHorns]
#678832 - 07/20/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
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GreenHorns
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Re: I think it's time to go hydro [Re: Magash]
#678833 - 07/20/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Cool cool. Getting some great ideas. the more I think of it the more I think its what I'm going to go with. I'll post pics of the build in the design forum as this develops. Would be cool to just integrate misters at each plant hole to ensure total humidity in there.
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