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Methods: Interventions Replacement of dietary saturated fats (from animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings) with omega 6 linoleic acid (from safflower oil and safflower oil polyunsaturated margarine). Controls received no specific dietary instruction or study foods. All non-dietary aspects were designed to be equivalent in both groups.

Conclusion: In this cohort, substituting dietary linoleic acid in place of saturated fats increased the rates of death from all causes, coronary heart disease, and cardiovascular disease.

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Salicornia oil - 75%
Safflower oil - 74.62%
Evening Primrose oil - 73%
Poppyseed oil - 70%
Grape seed oil - 69.6%
Sunflower oil - 65.7%
Hemp oil - 60%
Corn oil - 59%
Wheat germ oil - 55%
Cottonseed oil - 54%
Soybean oil - 51%
Walnut oil - 51%
Sesame oil - 45%
Rice bran oil - 39%
Argan oil - 37%
Pistachio oil - 32.7%
Peanut oil - 32%
Almonds - 24%
Canola oil - 21%
Chicken fat - 18-23%

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drawde said:
Fail to see how this proves anything Spencer.

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Did you read the study? lol I don't know how it could be more clear.

No but srsly, what I'm showing here is that many health professionals (doctors, epidemiologists, nutritionists, health workers, social policy makers, bob marleys, etc) are just as misinformed as the people they're trying to help, and our model for scientific inquiry has severe flaws in this field. This has led to massive population wide problems, but we all know this.

But also, if this flew over your head, the other reason I posted this was to inform the community about possible misinformation they may believe. So in that effect, I'm doing a public service and you should thank me - but you don't have to!

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drawde said:
Also a little thought, you should thank each and every one of us for lowering the demand for your dietary content thereby decreasing cost. There are only so much resources to go around. Some day we may all be vegans, choice or not.

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You (along with others) are lowering the demand of my dietary content?  Butter and meat? Fruits and veggies? 

Do you even know where you are right now?

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Spency said:
Also, veganism will always be a choice:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat

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Magash said:
Here we go on this stupid argument again on which diet is the best I see it coming.


It's as simple as this. We live in America folks (most of us here do anyway) the rule here is, it doesn't matter what you eat as long as you eat to much of it.

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drawde said:
Also I don't understand the sample population chosen, seems like they need some control groups.

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Magash said:
Here we go on this stupid argument again on which diet is the best I see it coming.

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drawde said:
For the affluent

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Commercial: The growth medium should be inexpensive to produce.

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drawde said:
I mean controls as in, individuals without recent coronary problems.
All you could possibly say from this is poly's could be a problem if you have had problems.

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Magash said:
Here we go on this stupid argument again on which diet is the best I see it coming.


It's as simple as this. We live in America folks (most of us here do anyway) the rule here is, it doesn't matter what you eat as long as you eat to much of it.

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Spency said:

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Methods: Interventions Replacement of dietary saturated fats

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drawde said:
By choosing not to consume animal products

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drawde said:
What really gets me here spencer is your attitude. This is a meta-analysis of 458 people studied in the 70s. Some glorious victory.

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drawde said:
What really gets me here spencer is your attitude. This is a meta-analysis of 458 people studied in the 70s. Some glorious victory.

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drawde said:
It doesn't prove anything about vegetarianism/veganism... its about specific types of oils, not sure how that could be any more clear. There are a substantial amount of other factors to take into consideration before drawing such a correlation, of which the study does not do.

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Here we go on this stupid argument again on which diet is the best I see it coming.

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Design Evaluation of recovered data from the Sydney Diet Heart Study, a single blinded, parallel group, randomized controlled trial conducted in 1966-73; and an updated meta-analysis including these previously missing data.

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Interventions Replacement of dietary saturated fats (from animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings) with omega 6 linoleic acid (from safflower oil and safflower oil polyunsaturated margarine). Controls received no specific dietary instruction or study foods. All non-dietary aspects were designed to be equivalent in both groups.

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81renaissance said:

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Design Evaluation of recovered data from the Sydney Diet Heart Study, a single blinded, parallel group, randomized controlled trial conducted in 1966-73; and an updated meta-analysis including these previously missing data.

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So this is an evaluation of a study that was conducted in 1966-1973.

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Interventions Replacement of dietary saturated fats (from animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings) with omega 6 linoleic acid (from safflower oil and safflower oil polyunsaturated margarine). Controls received no specific dietary instruction or study foods. All non-dietary aspects were designed to be equivalent in both groups.

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That used hydrogenated oils in a study during a time when the detrimental effects of hydrogenated oils were not widely known.

Hydrogenated oils and/or omega-6 fatty acids are now known to cause vasoconstriction by way of inflammation of the blood vessels.  We also know that beginning in the middle of the 20th century, production of processed foods containing significant amounts of hydrogenated oils and consequently significant amounts of omega 6 fatty acids.  Now, omega-6 is an essential nutrient (one that the human body does not produce on its own), BUT like with anything in the body, when consumed in excess, it causes serious health problems.  The subjects then, were receiving excessive quantities of a substance we now know to have deleterious effects at those levels.

This study just reinforces old news: hydrogenated oils are bad news.  It does not reveal anything about a vegan diet.

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81renaissance said:

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Design Evaluation of recovered data from the Sydney Diet Heart Study, a single blinded, parallel group, randomized controlled trial conducted in 1966-73; and an updated meta-analysis including these previously missing data.

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So this is an evaluation of a study that was conducted in 1966-1973.

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Interventions Replacement of dietary saturated fats (from animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings) with omega 6 linoleic acid (from safflower oil and safflower oil polyunsaturated margarine). Controls received no specific dietary instruction or study foods. All non-dietary aspects were designed to be equivalent in both groups.

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That used hydrogenated oils in a study during a time when the detrimental effects of hydrogenated oils were not widely known.

Hydrogenated oils and/or omega-6 fatty acids are now known to cause vasoconstriction by way of inflammation of the blood vessels.  We also know that beginning in the middle of the 20th century, production of processed foods containing significant amounts of hydrogenated oils and consequently significant amounts of omega 6 fatty acids.  Now, omega-6 is an essential nutrient (one that the human body does not produce on its own), BUT like with anything in the body, when consumed in excess, it causes serious health problems.  The subjects then, were receiving excessive quantities of a substance we now know to have deleterious effects at those levels.

This study just reinforces old news: hydrogenated oils are bad news.  It does not reveal anything about a vegan diet.

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Let me be clear:

I mean perhaps I have wrongly construed what I believe about the vegan diet, but I don't think the contents of my posts have in any way indicated that I think there is something to be said about the vegan diet from these results - instead, my intention was to slay down the archaic dogma of the era in which the data is from, that still lingers - particularly in the repertoire of those who appose the consumption of animal products.

Now, onto the contents of your contribution:

This is a revealing of data that has been hidden for 30 years.

First off those are not hydrogenated oils. Omega-6 fatty acids are not hydrogenated oils. It's a type of processing of the oil that makes it become a trans fat, it can be a plant based or animal based oil.

You say this is old news? We all know this? Then wtf is this Detective?
Livestrong - Alkaline DietLive Strong - Healthy FatsHelp Guide - Healthy Fats

I guess some people didn't get the fucking message eh?

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hawksapprentice said:
I knew someone else would realize this eventually....

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hawksapprentice said:
Fat often receives bad press, but it is eating too much of certain types of fats and not enough of others which is detrimental, not fat per se.  Fat is energy-ense, meaning it contains a lot of energy (kilojoules/calories) in a small quantity (37kJ/g), making it easy to eat more than we need.


From your own link.  Exactly what I was trying to get at on previous posts, which you haven't addressed.  A well balanced diet.

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hawksapprentice said:
The way you come off in the title to start.


"I mean perhaps I have wrongly construed what I believe about the vegan diet, but I don't think the contents of my posts have in any way indicated that I think there is something to be said about the vegan diet from these results - instead, my intention was to slay down the archaic dogma of the era in which the data is from, that still lingers - particularly in the repertoire of those who appose the consumption of animal products."


The very title of your thread would lead people to think that you disdain vegetarians/vegans.


And this

"So please, if you know a vegan, a vegetarian or anyone that follows either a low-fat, high-fiber or the American Diabetes Association recommended diet eat a stick of butter in front of them and if they so much as say anything, give them this link:"



Eating a majority vegetable diet is NOT unhealthy.  Too think otherwise is just ridiculous. 


Now I believe that a Vegan diet can be unhealthy if not done properly.

We are omnivores and have been eating meat for so long that I do believe people should eat it. 


Also a lot of people choose to be vegetarian not just to be healthier, but for the health of the planet.

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hawksapprentice said:
I knew someone else would realize this eventually....

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hawksapprentice said:
What you say and how you say it, it's not hard to construe that you think vegetarians are unhealthy.

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I don't think the contents of my posts have in any way indicated that I think there is something to be said about the vegan diet from these results - instead, my intention was to slay down the archaic dogma of the era in which the data is from

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