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InvisibleJeromeBaker
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Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 62
Just found seeds
    #650543 - 12/11/12 01:42 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Just harvested my 2 girls last night and while sifting thru the leaves and popcorn buds( going to make hash from them) I found 2 seeds.
I was wondering if I were to plant them what the outcome would be.
Would they be female or just fucked up hermies?
Any advice would be great. Thanks.


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JB


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: JeromeBaker]
    #650544 - 12/11/12 01:46 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

They'd most likely be female with a high risk to hermie.
If not just hermie from the get go.


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InvisibleJeromeBaker
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: Stoneth]
    #650546 - 12/11/12 01:54 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Shitty.
They threw naners in the 10th week of flower( or that's when I first saw them)
I chopped them yesterday. I felt the buds but didn't feel any seeds maybe there's a few more hiding.
The
Seeds I found are really small but still nice and brown with black (stripes)
Should I plant them?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: JeromeBaker]
    #650555 - 12/11/12 02:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Sometimes there's a random piece of pollen floating through the air. Every once in awhile I'll find a bud with 1-5 seeds with no explanation of the source. The last time I grew a clone of GDP it produced one seed.

I've read that the seeds that come from a hermed plant will all be female.


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InvisibleJeromeBaker
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: phychotron]
    #650558 - 12/11/12 02:50 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I saw naners and plucked them as soon as I saw them.
I didn't give them the chance to open up. Guess I missed one.
I felt up my nugs and didn't feel or see any sIgns of seeds.
I guess I'll gave to keep an eye out for beans.
All in all I had a good harvest. My buds are skunky and stink soooooo good.


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OfflineJoint Ops
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: JeromeBaker]
    #650574 - 12/11/12 07:34 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

if left for too long in flowering sometimes female plants will grow male reproductive organs and polinise themselves, a redundancy plan from mother nature, im not sure if they would be considered herme seed or not as colloidal silver employs basicly the same method to create feminised seeds, but not quite sure if there is some type of hormonal difference between the two actions, ill have a look at a book i have, i think it references this


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OfflinePoloDown
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: Joint Ops]
    #650591 - 12/11/12 11:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Im pretty sure a seed from a self-pollinated plant will be a hermie seed. But, if a Hermie plant pollinates a female plant and that female plant grows seeds, I believe those are feminized seeds.

I could be wrong - just internet reading i found at one point.


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InvisibleJeromeBaker
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Registered: 01/09/09
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: PoloDown]
    #650593 - 12/11/12 11:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for all the info guys.
I think I'm gonna plant these and see what happens.


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Offline81renaissance
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: PoloDown]
    #650606 - 12/11/12 01:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PoloDown said:
Im pretty sure a seed from a self-pollinated plant will be a hermie seed. But, if a Hermie plant pollinates a female plant and that female plant grows seeds, I believe those are feminized seeds.

I could be wrong - just internet reading i found at one point.




Weeellll, you're definitely not completely right.

With regard to the couple of seeds the OP found: In all likelihood, those will be healthy female plants if you grow them out.  The reason I say this is that the plant didn't throw nanners until late in flower, and even then , it wasn't a lot.  That leads me to believe that you had good genetics with some minor stress that caused them to herm.  There is a higher likelihood that the progeny will herm, but not as great as if you had a tree full of hermie flowers early in the grow.
The part about a hermie pollinating a separate plant and making feminized seeds is not correct in the sense that that's the process of making a feminized strain.  Some breeders use that method (like Soma) and intentionally flower their plants too long to force it to herm, and then breed with it, however that method is highly disputed due to the likelihood of hermaphroditic offspring (just ask Magash).


--------------------
"So it goes."
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InvisibleJeromeBaker
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Registered: 01/09/09
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: 81renaissance]
    #650618 - 12/11/12 02:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

How long should I wait to plant them?
I read somewhere you gotta let them dry out first. Just wondering if this was true.
Thanks again.


--------------------
JB


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: 81renaissance]
    #650619 - 12/11/12 02:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Any time one breeds with hermie DNA the offspring has a risk of going hermie.  It's in the DNA.


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OfflineJoint Ops
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: Stoneth]
    #650655 - 12/11/12 06:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

yes but any plant has the risk of being a herme, all sorts of factors including environment can contribute to it becomming herme aswell, its like mentioned above, flowering for too long is a form of stress which causes self pollination, there are many forms off stress which can cause the plant to become herme, as long as you can eliminate most of the environmental factors attributed to most forms of stress then you should be able to prevent the plants from becoming herme


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InvisibleJeromeBaker
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Posts: 62
Re: Just found seeds [Re: Joint Ops]
    #650658 - 12/11/12 06:49 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The reason they hermied on me is because I had a light leak.
They are in a homemade cabinet in my closet and light got thru when I turned the bedroom light on.
Problem is fixed now tho. Since I chopped them I got to work on my setup a bit.

As for the seeds do I have to wait for a certain amount of time or can I go ahead and plant them now?


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Invisiblecurbstop
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Registered: 02/28/10
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Re: Just found seeds *DELETED* [Re: JeromeBaker]
    #650683 - 12/11/12 11:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by curbstop

Reason for deletion: Sdr



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OfflineJoint Ops
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: curbstop]
    #650776 - 12/12/12 06:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

solid advice
keep in a warm, dry and dark place for the 3 or so weeks and you should be good, alternatively you should think about multi cropping for the purpose of cloning material, more reliable than seed for sex identification and no risk to your first main crops potential


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InvisibleJeromeBaker
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: Joint Ops]
    #650923 - 12/13/12 12:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Will do guys thanks.
I plan to pop 2 or 3 then take clones from the best plant. Then I'll proceed from there.


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: Joint Ops]
    #650927 - 12/13/12 01:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Joint Ops said:
yes but any plant has the risk of being a herme, all sorts of factors including environment can contribute to it becomming herme aswell, its like mentioned above, flowering for too long is a form of stress which causes self pollination, there are many forms off stress which can cause the plant to become herme, as long as you can eliminate most of the environmental factors attributed to most forms of stress then you should be able to prevent the plants from becoming herme



You seem to lack some research on what I said.
Hermie is in the DNA, wise breeders test to avoid using plants that hermie.
Here's a few quotes on the subject.
Quote:

Magash said:
ok, here's how I do it.

First pick the mother plants that you want to target for gathering pollen. Take clones from them to be tested. Now stress test them (this is the biggest fuck up in Soma's method) with light, water, nutrients, many other ways and keep track of what your doing. Now the plants that show hermie traits or the bananas that Soma talks about are discarded. In other words the plants that Soma keeps the pollen are age stressed plants. These are the exact plants I myself would discard for the porpoise he keeps them for. Doing this is not a natural thing for the plants to do and can not be done properly organically.

Now that the strong mothers have been found clones are taken from them and treated with STS treatments.

STS treatments. I got this from Rez

Preparation of STS:

First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.

Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.

Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water

The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.

The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).

This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.

Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss.

The adjusted formula is as follows:

Part A: .7 gram silver nitrate stirred into 40ml distilled water
Part B: 2.6 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 160 ml distilled water

Next, slowly add the silver nitrate solution to the sodium thiosulfate solution while stirring. This combination is then added to 800 ml of distilled water to equal 1 liter. This is your final stock solution. It is diluted 1:9 with more distilled water to make your final working solution, which then gets sprayed on your target plant.

Either formula will work great, so don't sweat it too much. But do that second spraying at the end of week 2... seems to be the key for getting pollen from the more difficult strains.


Application:

The STS working solution is sprayed on select female plants until runoff. Do the spraying over newspaper in a separate area from the flower room. You probably won't smell anything, but ventilate anyway. You now have what I call a "F>M plant"; a female plant that will produce male flowers.

After the F>M plant dries move it into 12/12 immediately. This is usually done three to four weeks prior to the date that the target (to be pollinated) plants will be ready to pollinate. Response times may vary slightly depending upon the strain. More specific times can be determined by trial with your own individual strains. In my trials it took 26 days for the first pollen. 30-35 days seems optimum for planning purposes.

So, assuming that a target plant needs 3-4 weeks to produce fully mature seeds, a strain that takes 8 weeks to mature should be moved into flower at about the same time as the female>male plant. A target plant that finishes flowering in 6 weeks needs to be moved into flower later (10 days or so) so that it doesn't finish before the seeds can fully mature.

A seeded individual branch can be left to mature on a plant for a bit longer, while harvesting the other seedless buds if they finish first. Just leave enough leaves on for the plant for it to stay healthy.

Effects:

Within days I noticed a yellowing of the leaves on the F>M plants. This effect persisted for two weeks or so; after this they became green again, except for a few of the larger fans. The plants otherwise seemed healthy. No burning was observed. Growth stopped dead for the first ten days, and then resumed slowly. No stretch was ever seen. After two weeks the F>M plants were obviously forming male flower clusters. Not just a few clusters of balls, but complete male flower tops. One plant still formed some pistillate flowers, but overall it was predominantly male.

It is strange indeed to see an old girlfriend that you know like the back of your hand go through a sex change. I'll admit that things were awkward between us at first.

When the F>M plants look like they may soon open and release pollen, ( 3-1/2 to 4 weeks) move them from the main flower room into another unventilated room or closet with lighting on a 12/12 timer. Don't worry too much about watts per square foot; it will only be temporary.

When the pollen flies, move your target plants into the closet and pollinate.

A more controlled approach is to isolate the F>M plants in a third remote closet (no light is necessary in this one, as they are releasing pollen now and are nearly finished anyway). In this remote other closet the pollen is very carefully collected in a plastic produce bag or newspaper sleeve and then brought back to the lighted closet, where the target plants are now located. If this is done, be careful to not mix pollen types by letting the F>Ms dust each other. Avoid movement, or use yet another closet.

Take special care to not let pollen gather on the outside of this bag- a static charge is sometimes present. Drop small open clusters of blooms inside and then close the bag at the mouth and shake. Important: next, step outside and slowly release the excess air from the bag, collapsing it completely, so that pollen doesn't get released accidentally. Point downwind; don't let it get on your hands or clothes.

This collapsed pollinated bag is now very carefully slipped over only one branch and is then tied off tightly at the mouth around the branch stem with a twist tie or tape, sealing the pollen inside. Let the bag inflate slightly with air again before sealing it off, so the branch can breathe. This technique keeps the entire plant from seeding. Agitate the bag a bit after tying it off to distribute the pollen. Don't forget to label the branch so you know which seeds are which. Other branches on this same plant can be hit with different pollen sources.

If no lighted closet is available, the plant can be moved back into the main room, but- be very careful: pollen is sneaky. After 4-5 days, the bag is gently removed and the plant completes it's flowering cycle.

Yet another method has worked well for me. I position the target plants in a non-ventilated lighted closet, and then I collect pollen on a piece of mirror or glass. This is then carefully applied to the pistils of one pre-labeled branch by using a very fine watercolor paintbrush. Care is taken to not agitate the branch or the pollen. No sneezing. The plant needs to be in place first; moving it after pollination can shake pollen free and blow this technique.

Regardless of technique, at completion you will have feminized seeds. Let them dry for 2-4 weeks.

About the chemicals:

Silver nitrate is a white crystalline light-sensitive chemical that is commonly used in photography. It is also used in babies' eyes at birth to prevent blindness. It can cause mild skin irritation, and it stains brown. Avoid breathing. I didn't notice any smell or fumes, but ventilation is recommended. Be sure to wash the spray bottle well before you use it elsewhere; better yet: devote a bottle to STS use. A half gram is a surprisingly small amount; it would fit inside a gel capsule.




Quote:

Magash said:
For somebody to do it at home use one of these methods.

This is from Rez the breeder and owner of Reservoir Seeds https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=58957 I have used this method a thousand times at the very least and it is the standard way of doing feminized seeds in the seed industry.


Then there is CS which is the easiest for the home seed maker and works pretty damn well also. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=60610 ;

There is also Soma's method (Rodelization) of just leaving the buds on the plant way past their maturity which most strains will start to put out male flowers under age stress. This method is almost guaranteed to give you a good percentage of hermie plants and really shouldn't be used. Which explains the high percentage of complaints with Soma's feminized seeds.

and one that covers them all https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=199540



Now I hope you see my point.
Breeding with hermies will increase the risk of hermie's in the offspring.


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OfflineRasJeph
Psycho Pete
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: Stoneth]
    #650961 - 12/13/12 04:14 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

it hasn't been mentioned I don't think...how long does it take a seed to mature? I mean you cut them in week 10 when you saw bananas, but don't seeds take a bit of time to fully form?

just a point I didn't read in here yet.


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InvisibleJeromeBaker
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Registered: 01/09/09
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: RasJeph]
    #650963 - 12/13/12 04:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I saw naners in the 10th week of flower might have been one earlier that I didn't see.
I chopped the plants down on week 12. That's when I noticed seeds.
The seeds are dark brown, firm and have black lines/stripes on them.
I'll plant one just for the hell of it and see what happens.


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OfflineJoint Ops
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Re: Just found seeds [Re: JeromeBaker]
    #650967 - 12/13/12 06:02 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I am in no way trying to argue with you and am familiar with making my own colloidal silver for this use, i was simply making the point that given the right circumstances any plant can go herme, im not arguing genetics, as i have seen the difference between bag and store seed so i do understand the importance of genetics and you are correct, perhaps my previous statement wasn't written so well as to make my point, i only started posting the other day so ill get the hang of it, cheers


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