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OfflineMFDoom666
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Posts: 8,842
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Re: Are you really American? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #524905 - 02/08/11 08:41 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

it means beating a friend at a game of poker.

it means waking up early to shotgun beer before the big nascar race.

it means supporting our troops no matter how many babies they've raped and murdered.

it means the world to me.

:bucktoothfattygangsta:


--------------------

FurrowedBrow said:

They should teach african engineering at the college level.  mcgyver 101

Harry_Ba11sach said:

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
Re: Are you really American? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #524906 - 02/08/11 08:42 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

My point with all this was getting at whether or not national identity is a good thing, right now, in the whole scheme of our collective survival.  At what point will there be no boundaries for us to identify ourselves, other than those of geographic locations - not national identity. 

Quote:

Tangerines said:
You were born, raised, and currently live here (I am assuming).  You are an American there really is no arguing that fact.  I understand you want to distance yourself from the world-image we have, as Americans.




I think you are misunderstanding.  I don't give a flying fuck what everyone else thinks of me.  If I travel overseas they'd call me an american, yes.  But that doesn't change my perspective.  This isn't really about avoiding America's world image.  I mean, it's on a basic level why do we all need to be so unrelentingly proud of the immediate area we are from?  I'm from Kansas, I'm not a Kansan. 

I do like what drawde said.  I would have said it a bit different though.  I just don't think that national pride serves any good for our species.  Though, it's certainly a good thing for individual nations.

oh also.....



lastly, i just want to bring this question forward...

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Let me ask you all what being "American" means to you??





--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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Offlinekyuzo
Stranger Than Fiction

Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 981
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Are you really American? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #524908 - 02/08/11 08:45 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

1) how would any answer I gave invalidate the fact that people are extremely different? 

2) If you're asking why i love this country, well, because it has an amazing system of civil rights and liberties.  Everything after that is kind of secondary


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 03/12/10
Posts: 710
Loc: ▐▐▐▐▐
Re: Are you really American? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #524909 - 02/08/11 08:46 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
My point with all this was getting at whether or not national identity is a good thing, right now, in the whole scheme of our collective survival.  At what point will there be no boundaries for us to identify ourselves, other than those of geographic locations - not national identity. 

Quote:

Tangerines said:
You were born, raised, and currently live here (I am assuming).  You are an American there really is no arguing that fact.  I understand you want to distance yourself from the world-image we have, as Americans.




I think you are misunderstanding.  I don't give a flying fuck what everyone else thinks of me.  If I travel overseas they'd call me an american, yes.  But that doesn't change my perspective.  This isn't really about avoiding America's world image.  I mean, it's on a basic level why do we all need to be so unrelentingly proud of the immediate area we are from?  I'm from Kansas, I'm not a Kansan. 

I do like what drawde said.  I would have said it a bit different though.  I just don't think that national pride serves any good for our species.  Though, it's certainly a good thing for individual nations.




I think this thread is a good example of how "good" national Identity is
for us. All it does and has even done in this thread is divide us. It led
to (in this very thread) ridicule of a different belief other than your own.


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OfflineKing Koopa
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Registered: 06/26/08
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Re: Are you really American? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #524911 - 02/08/11 08:48 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

So this thread is about rebellion?


--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.

The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy; neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Posts: 12,041
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Re: Are you really American? [Re: King Koopa]
    #524914 - 02/08/11 08:50 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

no.  no, it's not.  i mean that wasn't in my head when i created this.  I suppose some aspects of this could be related to rebellion for some people.  I'm not one of them though.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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OfflineTangerines
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: Are you really American? [Re: King Koopa]
    #524915 - 02/08/11 08:50 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

being American means being born and raised in America.  It's pretty simple really.  A descriptive word as to where you are from.


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 03/12/10
Posts: 710
Loc: ▐▐▐▐▐
Re: Are you really American? [Re: kyuzo]
    #524916 - 02/08/11 08:51 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kyuzo said:
1) how would any answer I gave invalidate the fact that people are extremely different? 

2) If you're asking why i love this country, well, because it has an amazing system of civil rights and liberties.  Everything after that is kind of secondary




Meh.

The differences you are talking about amongst the people of this world
are incredible trivial. When it boils down to it we are all the same.

Why can most not look someone in the eye from say Brazil or China and not
think of them as the same?

Its all bullshit.


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OfflineMFDoom666
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Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 8,842
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Re: Are you really American? [Re: Tangerines]
    #524918 - 02/08/11 08:52 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tangerines said:
being American means being born and raised in America.  It's pretty simple really.  A descriptive word as to where you are from.




--------------------

FurrowedBrow said:

They should teach african engineering at the college level.  mcgyver 101

Harry_Ba11sach said:

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?


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Invisibledrawde

Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
Re: Are you really American? [Re: kyuzo]
    #524919 - 02/08/11 08:52 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kyuzo said:
I read your post again and it still seems to suggest one can't recognize national identity and shared humanity, at the same time




Seems rather conflicting with you last statement, but thats besides the point. How can there be separation and togetherness at the same time? This does not make sense. To me its one or the other. 

If "American" means "One who lives in America", then fine. But it is pretty obvious how "American" is used in so many different ways, and I think by rights a label must be something that is clearly and consistently defined.


--------------------
King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends


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OfflineTangerines
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Re: Are you really American? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #524922 - 02/08/11 08:53 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Because we are not the same.  The same means 100% carbon copys. A copy meaning from the same place.  Different places =/=same.


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Offlinekyuzo
Stranger Than Fiction

Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 981
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Are you really American? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #524923 - 02/08/11 08:55 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

kyuzo said:
1) how would any answer I gave invalidate the fact that people are extremely different? 

2) If you're asking why i love this country, well, because it has an amazing system of civil rights and liberties.  Everything after that is kind of secondary




Meh.

The differences you are talking about amongst the people of this world
are incredible trivial. When it boils down to it we are all the same.

Why can most not look someone in the eye from say Brazil or China and not
think of them as the same?

Its all bullshit.




wanting to stone rape victims and kill people for apostasy is trivial?


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
Re: Are you really American? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #524924 - 02/08/11 08:57 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

kyuzo said:
1) how would any answer I gave invalidate the fact that people are extremely different? 

2) If you're asking why i love this country, well, because it has an amazing system of civil rights and liberties.  Everything after that is kind of secondary




Meh.

The differences you are talking about amongst the people of this world
are incredible trivial. When it boils down to it we are all the same.

Why can most not look someone in the eye from say Brazil or China and not
think of them as the same?

Its all bullshit.




I will take a stab at that.....Our cultures of the world have not yet transcended their geographic and national boundries.  When that happens it will certainly take us one step closer to a world you described, where we are all the same.  This stuff kind of deals with the idea of a one world government.  I think a one world government is an inevitability.  im still not sure if this is a good thing.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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OfflineFar Stox
Higher Education


Registered: 09/19/10
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Re: Are you really American? [Re: DeadHearts] * 2
    #524927 - 02/08/11 08:59 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

I think there are a lot of completely different interpretations of the point of this thread. I think FB was trying to stimulate some intellectual discussion over what titles/labels actually mean to some of you, not get people to argue over what your nationality is.

If you go past simple nationality, the label of being "American" stems from nationalism. Nationalism and patriotism only divide people over trivial matters. It's the foundation for the "Us v. Them" mentality that America has about everything. You have virtually no choice over when or where you are born, yet people are labeled based on their place of origin.

I'm just a human.


--------------------
"When I awaken,
The first thing on my mind,
A little bit of cornflakes,
And a blunt that's all mine."-PUTS


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Offlinekyuzo
Stranger Than Fiction

Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 981
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Are you really American? [Re: drawde]
    #524930 - 02/08/11 09:02 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

drawde said:
Seems rather conflicting with you last statement, but thats besides the point.




how so?




How can there be separation and togetherness at the same time? This does not make sense. To me its one or the other. 




I guess the same way as one can point to the fact that NYC and Chicago are both American cities, but distinct in their own special ways?


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 03/12/10
Posts: 710
Loc: ▐▐▐▐▐
Re: Are you really American? [Re: Far Stox]
    #524931 - 02/08/11 09:03 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Far Stox said:
I think there are a lot of completely different interpretations of the point of this thread. I think FB was trying to stimulate some intellectual discussion over what titles/labels actually mean to some of you, not get people to argue over what your nationality is.

If you go past simple nationality, the label of being "American" stems from nationalism. Nationalism and patriotism only divide people over trivial matters. It's the foundation for the "Us v. Them" mentality that America has about everything. You have virtually no choice over when or where you are born, yet people are labeled based on their place of origin.

I'm just a human.




Agreed


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Offlinekyuzo
Stranger Than Fiction

Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 981
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Re: Are you really American? [Re: Far Stox]
    #524934 - 02/08/11 09:05 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Far Stox said:
I think there are a lot of completely different interpretations of the point of this thread. I think FB was trying to stimulate some intellectual discussion over what titles/labels actually mean to some of you, not get people to argue over what your nationality is.

If you go past simple nationality, the label of being "American" stems from nationalism. Nationalism and patriotism only divide people over trivial matters. It's the foundation for the "Us v. Them" mentality that America has about everything. You have virtually no choice over when or where you are born, yet people are labeled based on their place of origin.

I'm just a human.




The "us vs them" mentality is extremely universal and am unsure how one could even begin to entertain the idea that it was , in some way, unique to america


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InvisibleDeadHearts

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Posts: 710
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Re: Are you really American? [Re: kyuzo]
    #524935 - 02/08/11 09:06 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kyuzo said:
Quote:

Far Stox said:
I think there are a lot of completely different interpretations of the point of this thread. I think FB was trying to stimulate some intellectual discussion over what titles/labels actually mean to some of you, not get people to argue over what your nationality is.

If you go past simple nationality, the label of being "American" stems from nationalism. Nationalism and patriotism only divide people over trivial matters. It's the foundation for the "Us v. Them" mentality that America has about everything. You have virtually no choice over when or where you are born, yet people are labeled based on their place of origin.

I'm just a human.




The "us vs them" mentality is extremely universal and am unsure how one could even begin to entertain the idea that it was , in some way, unique to america




Doesnt matter really.


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: Are you really American? [Re: kyuzo]
    #524936 - 02/08/11 09:06 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kyuzo said:
Quote:

Far Stox said:
I think there are a lot of completely different interpretations of the point of this thread. I think FB was trying to stimulate some intellectual discussion over what titles/labels actually mean to some of you, not get people to argue over what your nationality is.

If you go past simple nationality, the label of being "American" stems from nationalism. Nationalism and patriotism only divide people over trivial matters. It's the foundation for the "Us v. Them" mentality that America has about everything. You have virtually no choice over when or where you are born, yet people are labeled based on their place of origin.

I'm just a human.




The "us vs them" mentality is extremely universal and am unsure how one could even begin to entertain the idea that it was , in some way, unique to america





he's not saying that.  he's saying that division IS a natural product of national identity.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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Offlinekyuzo
Stranger Than Fiction

Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 981
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Are you really American? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #524940 - 02/08/11 09:14 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
Quote:

kyuzo said:
Quote:

Far Stox said:
I think there are a lot of completely different interpretations of the point of this thread. I think FB was trying to stimulate some intellectual discussion over what titles/labels actually mean to some of you, not get people to argue over what your nationality is.

If you go past simple nationality, the label of being "American" stems from nationalism. Nationalism and patriotism only divide people over trivial matters. It's the foundation for the "Us v. Them" mentality that America has about everything. You have virtually no choice over when or where you are born, yet people are labeled based on their place of origin.

I'm just a human.




The "us vs them" mentality is extremely universal and am unsure how one could even begin to entertain the idea that it was , in some way, unique to america





he's not saying that.  he's saying that division IS a natural product of national identity.





I was mainly responding to this remark: 
Quote:

It's the foundation for the "Us v. Them" mentality that America has about everything.




Also, as I said previously, there is nothing trivial about the ideas behind how and why governments operate


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