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OfflinePaleo Edibles
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Registered: 11/21/10
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
    #526388 - 02/12/11 06:56 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

removed


Edited by Paleo Edibles (05/03/12 04:29 PM)


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
Dreams of Oceans
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Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 588
Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: Paleo Edibles]
    #526501 - 02/12/11 12:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paleo Edibles said:people have been doing it wrong all this time




That's a shitty thing to say.  I like the way I make my edibles and have no regrets. 

Would you tell people they fuck "wrong" if they didn't screw the same way as you?


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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OfflinePaleo Edibles
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Registered: 11/21/10
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: CrayolaHalls]
    #526647 - 02/12/11 07:57 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

When you make edibles without decarbing first, you're doing it in a very inefficient, wasteful manner.  I'm not trying to hurt you or anyone elses feelings, haha.  It's not a personal thing, it's just the chemistry involved. Carboxyl cannabinoids don't get you high, period.  They also don't decarboxylate when infused into a lipid.  The difference in actual active cannabinoid numbers between the two methods changes literally tenfold when you prebake.  I can back that up with proof.

Paleo


Edited by Paleo Edibles (02/12/11 07:59 PM)


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OfflineeNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie


Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: CrayolaHalls]
    #526875 - 02/13/11 06:11 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CrayolaHalls said:
Quote:

Paleo Edibles said:people have been doing it wrong all this time




That's a shitty thing to say.  I like the way I make my edibles and have no regrets. 

Would you tell people they fuck "wrong" if they didn't screw the same way as you?



yeah, you can't just take offence from that... i mean, c'mon... dude... you like your edibles, good, i bet they taste fantab.

are they getting the appropriate amount of THC? and are you using more bud then you could be?

the dude ain't saying you're cooking wrong, for frig sakes... he is saying that people should decarb your weed first so you can get as much THC out of your weed as possible... and it's alllll true. i have a big bag out vaped weed... and i make cookies and shit outta them cause i can put em in the oven and cook the shit outta em in some cookies and get high as shit. i decarb the vaped weed and it turns into almost perfectly usable weed again, albeit, obviously less strong. but whatever... with enough, you can make use of it in cookies or even smoking it. sometimes, i get some weeds that aren't as "heady" and i put in the microwave for like a minute or so depending on how much i am putting in, and it increases the potency of said "mids" to the potentcy that what i am usually used to, anyways.

since i learned out this method, i have smoked less weed and have gotten heady highs all the time.


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
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Posts: 588
Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
    #526904 - 02/13/11 11:35 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Its all relevant.  I don't waste sperm just because every swimmer doesn't get an egg.  Likewise, I don't waste any cannabis as long as the end result is what I want.

I should also add that "heady" highs are not what I am looking for from cannabis.  I prefer a very heavy stone.


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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OfflineeNtranceAsexit
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Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: CrayolaHalls]
    #527476 - 02/15/11 01:43 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

oh well, we are talking about the how-to's of extracting the best quality THC, here...

not other cannabinoids and your preferences of highs. :shrug:

i mean, why bother posting here if you simply just disagree?


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
Dreams of Oceans
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Registered: 08/15/10
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
    #527483 - 02/15/11 01:56 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

My original post wasn't to disagree, but to comment on another post.  It was someone else that decided to draw the distinction between right and wrong or make judgmental comments about "wasting" cannabis.


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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OfflineeNtranceAsexit
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Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: CrayolaHalls]
    #527603 - 02/15/11 08:36 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

meh, it's his thread. he can word his opinion however shittily as he wants. you don't have to reply.

just saying... i dont' see how he is saying anything wrong. :shrug:


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Invisibledouble
Diesel

Registered: 02/12/11
Posts: 207
Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: 81renaissance]
    #527815 - 02/16/11 04:56 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

81renaissance said:
Heat is what decarboxylates your bud, so if you just make regular old cannabutter or infused olive oil (which btw is WAY more healthy than your artery-murdering lard)




what about sunflower or other vegetable oils?


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OfflinePaleo Edibles
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Registered: 11/21/10
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: double]
    #530174 - 02/24/11 01:49 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I see a lot of people having trouble with edibles, and it's because they don't know about two very crucial steps that can destroy your edible experience, or make it:  Decarboxylation to the fullest degree, and eating your edible together with a significant meal to bypass the first pass effect produced by the liver.

First, Decarboxylation:

Decarboxylation has to be done in a closed but not completely sealed environment, preferably at 221F for 2 hours, or (less efficiently) 248F for 1 hour. The higher in temp you go, the more THC degrades to CBN, although at 220F a described analysis showes less than 5% CBN, or greater than or equal to 95% efficiency.Just as important, everyone must note that more CBD is decarboxylated at higher temperatures (a high CBD:THC ratio is not desirable, as CBD cancels out THC's effects, being an agonist to the antagonist) because CBD tends to be slightly more resistant to decarboxylation than THC. One with a sharp mind for this sees that this makes the retention of a low CBD:THC ratio achievable. That's with low temps, long time periods.

Next, First Pass Metabolism!:

Exactly what the first pass is and how your liver does it.  Before your food gets to your GI, but after your foods been through the stomach, your liver gets the majority of the compounds and breaks them down, with some of the breakdown product being active and some of it not being active.  This can be bypassed by eating the right amounts prior, during (in combination with), and after your lipid-edible dose.

Absorption in the GI-tract is high (90-95%), but due to hepatic first-pass metabolism oral bioavailability ranges only between 5 to 20%.
What more is there to say about that? Keep reading, here is an abstract of some cannabinoid research paper on dogs:

" The absolute bioavailability of the cannabinoid was low in fasted dogs (8-20 per cent), in spite of good absorption (72-75 per cent of radio-labelled CRA13 recovered in the systemic circulation). In fed dogs, bioavailability increased to 47.5 per cent and the majority (43.7 per cent) of the dose was absorbed via the lymphatic system of the intestine. Researchers concluded that the positive food effect for CRA13 does not appear to result from increased absorption. Rather the increase in bioavailability was stimulated via almost complete transport into the lymph, in turn resulting in a reduction in first-pass metabolism. In fasted dogs most of the cannabinoid was metabolised, i.e. changed to inactive compounds, at once in the liver before reaching the whole body, while the liver was bypassed in fed animals.

Note the underline? Eating more food doesn't increase absorption, merely feeds the liver, and physically transports the rest of the cannabinoids into the lymph in the GI, where bioavailability is in the 95-100% range.  Eating beforehand a third of your meal, the edible concurrently with a third of your meal, and then eating the last portion of your meal to push the food quickly into your GI and not let it sit in the liver. The more your eat before, the better.  Eating more after physically pushes food down past the liver into the GI, apparently.  If you eat way too much food, however, it will dilute your dose enough that you will not exactly feel a significant peak.

I wrote this a while ago. The more food you eat together with the edible, the less your liver will prematurely metabolize.

Oh, and Animal Fat or Veggie Oil?

Lard doesn't clog your artieries. The current "lipid hypothesis" of heart disease is, all in all, false.  Animal fat is the healthiest fat, with the oldest relationship to us.  :wink: Veg oils (including sunflower) are actually BAD for you, because they raise your lipoprotein(a).  If you want to go more into detail with me on this, I'd love to reason with you about it, but that's just going to have to wait for another post. I'll leave you guys with 3 links:

Best http://www.paleonu.com/
Ex-best, retired http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/
Recipes, ideas http://everydaypaleo.com/


Paleo


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OfflineMFDoom666
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: CrayolaHalls]
    #531449 - 02/28/11 02:14 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CrayolaHalls said:
Quote:

eNtranceAsexit said:
and yet no one is DECARBING THEIR WEED BEFORE MAKING EDIBLES..



ack, BRILLIANT!1 :dizope:

[/sarcasm]




This seems to be a good idea, but I really don't feel like trying it.  I am very happy with my edibles.




i could never microwave my weed.

my oil and butter had been soul crippling without that step so i'm gonna stick to it.

not saying it doesn't work, just a preference.


--------------------

FurrowedBrow said:

They should teach african engineering at the college level.  mcgyver 101

Harry_Ba11sach said:

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?


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OfflinePaleo Edibles
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Registered: 11/21/10
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: MFDoom666]
    #531541 - 02/28/11 03:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Decarboxylation isn't "suggested" to might work, or sometimes increase potency.  It always works, and it's always reccomended.  I notice every reply is someone saying why they don't decarboxylate...Good for you. :confused:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7344736.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7622140.html
CTRL+F "decarboxylation"

If you don't decarb before your edibles, you're wasting your cannabinoids, because you are ingesting them mainly as carboxyl cannabinoids.  Not to mention, first pass metabolism is hard to bypass if you don't know to eat plenty of food to transport your dose to your lymphs in the GI.  My current venture is to learn how to inhibit first pass metabolism. I found lots of great information, check this out:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=116650
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_P450

Basically I've compiled a list of non-pharmacological compounds that inhibit P450 enzymes from metabolizing cannabinoids, specifically those that inhibit CYP2C9 and CYP3A4.  They are:  Piperine (active ingredient in pepper) + Curcurmin (active ingredient in tumeric) together in a fat infusion (together, they synergize bioavailability of curcurmin which increases inhibition) greatly inhibit some of the CYP2C's.

Also, Milk Thistle, Ginko Bilboa, and Grapefruit Juice are also all non-drug temporary inhibitors of P450.  So a fair test for you or I would be to consume any of the ingredients mentioned prior to and with your edible.  This technique, in combination with a large meal that physically transports the edible dose into the lymph, is the absolute best case scenario for clandestine cookers.

Pharmacologic P450 inhibitors Isoniazid (a.k.a. INH), Quinolones, Spironolactones, Macrolides, Amiodarone, Cimetidine, Ketoconazole (all the azoles), Dapsone

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12814957?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16112652?dopt=Abstract
http://www.medschoolforums.com/showthread.php/p450-inducers-and-621.html?s=432989f01a13c7a19e3efad4a4d2e702&amp;

Paleo


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OfflineMFDoom666
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: Paleo Edibles]
    #531573 - 02/28/11 08:05 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

this is falling on deaf ears.


--------------------

FurrowedBrow said:

They should teach african engineering at the college level.  mcgyver 101

Harry_Ba11sach said:

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?


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Offline81renaissance
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: MFDoom666]
    #531577 - 02/28/11 08:20 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I gotta say I went from :awewtf: about this to :strokebeard:

I'm gonna see what its all about.


--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut


BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.


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OfflineeNtranceAsexit
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: 81renaissance]
    #531890 - 03/01/11 08:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

lol, I ike how the guy is pulling out all the stops and getting all sorts of info, and all the while everyone is treating him like a common troll.

Doop


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OfflineMFDoom666
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
    #531891 - 03/01/11 08:36 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

there's just no way that i'm gonna put my weed in the microwave.

so not kosher.


--------------------

FurrowedBrow said:

They should teach african engineering at the college level.  mcgyver 101

Harry_Ba11sach said:

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?


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OfflinePaleo Edibles
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Registered: 11/21/10
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: MFDoom666]
    #531926 - 03/01/11 09:27 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I am doing this for myself, first of all.  Efficiency, technique, a journal of sorts.  I also know of users who read my posts here but don't reply.  That's fine, the information I'm repeating for the MMJ community is not mine to claim.  But most people won't get to hear it, so I write it up for that reason. 

My writing doesn't fall upon deaf ears; just stoned ones.

Report - Oral Cannabis with P450 Inhibition

I didn't have Piperine (and didnt want to eat tons of pepper) so I used tumeric (curcurmin) infused into the same bacon fat as the decarbed cannabis.  This is the first time I ever take the cannabis infused with another ingredient. I ate an entire large grapefruit 20 minutes before, and more with and immediately after the edible.  I also had lots of other food before and after to feed the liver and push the dose into the lymph.

Usually at 3 hours I hit my peak, and by 4 hours I'm on my way down.  Last night I was fucked up at 4 hours and beyond.  Now I know why studies show the peak concentrations being from 3-6 hours.  Your liver's enzyme activity dictates how long it takes for the peak to hit you.

I postulate that with more P450 inhibition, the "peak" is moved over an hour or so, and the high's intensity is amplified and most importantly, the dose is prolonged.    Now, to find more common household inhibitors, and a dose rule-of-thumb.

Oh, and to the guy who said he won't microwave his weed: good for you, microwaving is for novices at decarboxylation.  Bake your cannabis in the oven for exactly 2 hours, at 220 degrees F in a covered container.

Paleo


Edited by Paleo Edibles (03/02/11 01:15 AM)


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OfflineMFDoom666
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Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: Paleo Edibles]
    #531929 - 03/01/11 09:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

that's more like it, ovens don't scare me.

thanks for posting all of this info and sorry if i seemed like an asshole.


--------------------

FurrowedBrow said:

They should teach african engineering at the college level.  mcgyver 101

Harry_Ba11sach said:

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?


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OfflinePaleo Edibles
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: MFDoom666]
    #532072 - 03/02/11 02:45 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

re moved.


Edited by Paleo Edibles (05/03/12 04:30 PM)


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
Dreams of Oceans
Male

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 588
Re: How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil [Re: Paleo Edibles]
    #532352 - 03/02/11 07:32 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

In my opinion, trying to squeeze every last bit of "high" out of a bud is just desperate thinking.  I always have abundance and I don't pay for it, so I really don't care.


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


Edited by CrayolaHalls (03/02/11 07:35 PM)


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