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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Dutch Master [Re: the man]
    #503246 - 12/05/10 06:08 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

You think the foliar feed will get to the roots? That's an interesting thought. Have you ever foliar fed your plants before?

I still don't know why you insist that salts in solution are disassociated into ions especially after I posted the disassociation constant that illustrates that there's an equilibrium between the two. I can only assume this is what you're talking about by your use of "solid things aren't in water" or "salts in the spray are in solution ie dissolved or into ions".


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Offlinethe man

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 825
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Dutch Master [Re: maryanne3087]
    #503293 - 12/05/10 09:18 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

by definition my man by definition....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solution

these salts that are good for foliar are extremely soluble. put your feed in a glass jar see if things settle out or perhaps run it through a coffee filter see what happens.


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: Dutch Master [Re: the man]
    #503309 - 12/06/10 12:25 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Search disassociation constant, recombination, etc.

Or go back a few posts and read the wiki page that illustrates the equation there will be a balance between the seperation of say calcium nitrate and recombination of the ions larger molecules.


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Offlinethe man

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 825
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Dutch Master [Re: maryanne3087]
    #503324 - 12/06/10 02:18 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

oh man u dont get it eh jeez.

yes ions seperate in solution and yes they do recombine into solid. however this is only the case when solution is evaporated and in a saturated situation. whats your point? how does any of that prove how/if this method works? you cant pass solids through the leaf dude, these salts are picked because they basically are the most soluble forms and can stay as a SOLUTION longer on the leaf. i dunno really why i argue with you ever as u just throw stuff out there and think somehow it means something... yes you read labels good job.

do you guys just use it in veg?? i imagine not very good in the smoke.


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Offlineknowboddy
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Registered: 12/09/09
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Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Dutch Master [Re: the man]
    #513380 - 01/13/11 02:26 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Anyone who's actually done foliar feeding knows it works.  Ultimately getting into a scientific argument is pointless when it's so easy to simply ask the question, test the hypothesis, and come to the obvious conclusion:  foliar feeding works.

We know it does.  Arguing about why is academic.  Arguing whether it does is ridiculous.  (And those of us who can follow the debate can see how clearly one-sided the density of knowledge is.)


That said, you can foliar feed in veg or flowering with extreme caution to getting moisture into developed buds.  The obvious concerns with bud rot means that few growers will risk wetting their plants after flower development begins or passes a certain point they consider to be "too far".  To play it safe, stick with veg-only.


Oh, and Magash... I love the animated gif in your signature.  Flawless.


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Offlinethe man

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 825
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Dutch Master [Re: knowboddy]
    #514647 - 01/17/11 05:03 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

id be interested to know how these sprays affect stomatal densities. as well as if the K influences there activity + or - on stomatal opening.
if nutrients can enter then they also may be stripped from the leaves, which is why they have a cuticle and other such measures the plant takes to not be stripped of nutrients. or again in aprevious post if they strip away the cuticle to allow absorbtion?  also some say they use chelated elements which makes even less sense for plants as they are larger harder to get through and are designed for use in animal feed. protein with nutrient attached and plants are primary producers so dont absorb proteins and if they do its very restricted in special cases.

one simple experiment i can think of is use a dye with your foliar feed to see if that goes into the leaves and down to the roots or if the dye comes up from the roots and which works/faster. which is sort of is the way they did the first testing of foliar feeding in 1950 with radiation which was tested by very very imprecise means.

perhaps foliar feeding makes small formations of root cells coming from the vascular tissue to the outside of the stems by way of extra moisture promoting the roots? i could see that working


agriculture is big business like anything scientific studies that have a business attached often are very hard to weed through as hard to know source of there funding and or personal gain. as you have seen in the news lately with teh vaccines.

@knowboddy  if you do not seek truth academically then you are a like fundamentalist. and i would not be surprised if you are a christian. which is fine but sort of a silly thing to say. if you find out how or if it works then you gain power to make it better. Huge amounts of problems have been caused in agriculture by doing things just because they seem to be a good thing.


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: Dutch Master [Re: the man]
    #515363 - 01/18/11 10:41 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Nothing wrong with saying something works without knowing it works.

Don't hate Albert Einstein do you?


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Offlinethe man

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 825
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Dutch Master [Re: maryanne3087]
    #515392 - 01/19/11 12:04 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

maryanne3087 said:
Nothing wrong with saying something works without knowing it works.






:facepalm:


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OfflineBigBudz
USA Mind Controls You!
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Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 133
Loc: Oakland, CA USA Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Dutch Master [Re: the man]
    #515642 - 01/19/11 04:19 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

I'll be testing the line soon. Right now I used a mix of General Hydro's Organic line and Advanced Nutrients. Unless I find some cheap nutrients on craigslist again, Dutch Master just looks like the best crap they have at the store.


--------------------
Art Music Music 2 Music 3

You are most likely being mind controlled if you live in the USA. The technology was discovered back in the late 1980's. You can easily see weird towers on government buildings...
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/sparkoflife.htm#mindcontrol


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Offlinethe man

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 825
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Dutch Master [Re: BigBudz]
    #515643 - 01/19/11 04:26 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

try to prevent it from rinsing down into the soil or whatever medium your using. do you have access to a microscope?

perhaps it increases the number of stoma and therefore transpiration.


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Offlineknowboddy
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Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 12
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Dutch Master [Re: maryanne3087]
    #516096 - 01/20/11 12:41 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

maryanne3087 said:
Nothing wrong with saying something works without knowing it works.

Don't hate Albert Einstein do you?




I think you meant to say "... without knowing how it works" or "... without knowing why it works".  Correct me if I'm wrong.

And if you're talking about what I think you're talking about regarding Einstein (the curvature of space as a description of gravity) I think the analogy is a little mis-matched.

Albert Einstein staked his reputation on the belief that his model to describe the celestial movements we observed before he could figure out the math to back it up.  (Newtonian physics alone didn't accurately predict the movement of the planets.)

Then, once he worked out the formulas to describe his theory he still couldn't prove it because he needed some (then) very tricky and precise photographs to be taken during a solar eclipse to prove he was correct.


We're kind of the other way around here (ignoring the obvious science that does prove foliar feeding works).  We can very simply and easily observe the effects of foliar feeding and conclude correctly that it works.  Science had to catch up and figure out why it worked rather than whether it worked.


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