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Invisibleniteowl
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Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax
    #486858 - 10/11/10 07:40 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

US physics professor: 'Global warming is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life'

Harold Lewis is Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of California, Santa Barbara. Here is his letter of resignation to Curtis G. Callan Jr, Princeton University, President of the American Physical Society.

Anthony Watts describes it thus:

    This is an important moment in science history. I would describe it as a letter on the scale of Martin Luther, nailing his 95 theses to the Wittenburg church door. It is worthy of repeating this letter in entirety on every blog that discusses science.

It’s so utterly damning that I’m going to run it in full without further comment. (H/T GWPF, Richard Brearley).

    Dear Curt:
    When I first joined the American Physical Society sixty-seven years ago it was much smaller, much gentler, and as yet uncorrupted by the money flood (a threat against which Dwight Eisenhower warned a half-century ago). Indeed, the choice of physics as a profession was then a guarantor of a life of poverty and abstinence—it was World War II that changed all that. The prospect of worldly gain drove few physicists. As recently as thirty-five years ago, when I chaired the first APS study of a contentious social/scientific issue, The Reactor Safety Study, though there were zealots aplenty on the outside there was no hint of inordinate pressure on us as physicists. We were therefore able to produce what I believe was and is an honest appraisal of the situation at that time. We were further enabled by the presence of an oversight committee consisting of Pief Panofsky, Vicki Weisskopf, and Hans Bethe, all towering physicists beyond reproach. I was proud of what we did in a charged atmosphere. In the end the oversight committee, in its report to the APS President, noted the complete independence in which we did the job, and predicted that the report would be attacked from both sides. What greater tribute could there be?

    How different it is now. The giants no longer walk the earth, and the money flood has become the raison d’être of much physics research, the vital sustenance of much more, and it provides the support for untold numbers of professional jobs. For reasons that will soon become clear my former pride at being an APS Fellow all these years has been turned into shame, and I am forced, with no pleasure at all, to offer you my resignation from the Society.

    It is of course, the global warming scam, with the (literally) trillions of dollars driving it, that has corrupted so many scientists, and has carried APS before it like a rogue wave. It is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist. Anyone who has the faintest doubt that this is so should force himself to read the ClimateGate documents, which lay it bare. (Montford’s book organizes the facts very well.) I don’t believe that any real physicist, nay scientist, can read that stuff without revulsion. I would almost make that revulsion a definition of the word scientist.

    So what has the APS, as an organization, done in the face of this challenge? It has accepted the corruption as the norm, and gone along with it. For example:

    1. About a year ago a few of us sent an e-mail on the subject to a fraction of the membership. APS ignored the issues, but the then President immediately launched a hostile investigation of where we got the e-mail addresses. In its better days, APS used to encourage discussion of important issues, and indeed the Constitution cites that as its principal purpose. No more. Everything that has been done in the last year has been designed to silence debate

    2. The appallingly tendentious APS statement on Climate Change was apparently written in a hurry by a few people over lunch, and is certainly not representative of the talents of APS members as I have long known them. So a few of us petitioned the Council to reconsider it. One of the outstanding marks of (in)distinction in the Statement was the poison word incontrovertible, which describes few items in physics, certainly not this one. In response APS appointed a secret committee that never met, never troubled to speak to any skeptics, yet endorsed the Statement in its entirety. (They did admit that the tone was a bit strong, but amazingly kept the poison word incontrovertible to describe the evidence, a position supported by no one.) In the end, the Council kept the original statement, word for word, but approved a far longer “explanatory” screed, admitting that there were uncertainties, but brushing them aside to give blanket approval to the original. The original Statement, which still stands as the APS position, also contains what I consider pompous and asinine advice to all world governments, as if the APS were master of the universe. It is not, and I am embarrassed that our leaders seem to think it is. This is not fun and games, these are serious matters involving vast fractions of our national substance, and the reputation of the Society as a scientific society is at stake.

    3. In the interim the ClimateGate scandal broke into the news, and the machinations of the principal alarmists were revealed to the world. It was a fraud on a scale I have never seen, and I lack the words to describe its enormity. Effect on the APS position: none. None at all. This is not science; other forces are at work.

    4. So a few of us tried to bring science into the act (that is, after all, the alleged and historic purpose of APS), and collected the necessary 200+ signatures to bring to the Council a proposal for a Topical Group on Climate Science, thinking that open discussion of the scientific issues, in the best tradition of physics, would be beneficial to all, and also a contribution to the nation. I might note that it was not easy to collect the signatures, since you denied us the use of the APS membership list. We conformed in every way with the requirements of the APS Constitution, and described in great detail what we had in mind—simply to bring the subject into the open.<

    5. To our amazement, Constitution be damned, you declined to accept our petition, but instead used your own control of the mailing list to run a poll on the members’ interest in a TG on Climate and the Environment. You did ask the members if they would sign a petition to form a TG on your yet-to-be-defined subject, but provided no petition, and got lots of affirmative responses. (If you had asked about sex you would have gotten more expressions of interest.) There was of course no such petition or proposal, and you have now dropped the Environment part, so the whole matter is moot. (Any lawyer will tell you that you cannot collect signatures on a vague petition, and then fill in whatever you like.) The entire purpose of this exercise was to avoid your constitutional responsibility to take our petition to the Council.

    6. As of now you have formed still another secret and stacked committee to organize your own TG, simply ignoring our lawful petition.

    APS management has gamed the problem from the beginning, to suppress serious conversation about the merits of the climate change claims. Do you wonder that I have lost confidence in the organization?

    I do feel the need to add one note, and this is conjecture, since it is always risky to discuss other people’s motives. This scheming at APS HQ is so bizarre that there cannot be a simple explanation for it. Some have held that the physicists of today are not as smart as they used to be, but I don’t think that is an issue. I think it is the money, exactly what Eisenhower warned about a half-century ago. There are indeed trillions of dollars involved, to say nothing of the fame and glory (and frequent trips to exotic islands) that go with being a member of the club. Your own Physics Department (of which you are chairman) would lose millions a year if the global warming bubble burst. When Penn State absolved Mike Mann of wrongdoing, and the University of East Anglia did the same for Phil Jones, they cannot have been unaware of the financial penalty for doing otherwise. As the old saying goes, you don’t have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing. Since I am no philosopher, I’m not going to explore at just which point enlightened self-interest crosses the line into corruption, but a careful reading of the ClimateGate releases makes it clear that this is not an academic question.

    I want no part of it, so please accept my resignation. APS no longer represents me, but I hope we are still friends.
    Hal


Harold Lewis is Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara, former Chairman; Former member Defense Science Board, chmn of Technology panel; Chairman DSB study on Nuclear Winter; Former member Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards; Former member, President’s Nuclear Safety Oversight Committee; Chairman APS study on Nuclear Reactor Safety
Chairman Risk Assessment Review Group; Co-founder and former Chairman of JASON; Former member USAF Scientific Advisory Board; Served in US Navy in WW II; books: Technological Risk (about, surprise, technological risk) and Why Flip a Coin (about decision making)




link


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl] * 1
    #486863 - 10/11/10 10:30 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

tl;dr  gotta go to class in a second.

But briefly, we know for a fact that certain molecules (CO2, CO, CH4, S6OH etc) reflect infrared radiation via Rayleigh and Mie scattering mechanisms. Additionally, we know for a fact that the temperature is rising globally right now. Granted, it's related to natural cycles of global temperatures that have existed for as long as our planet has, a subset of frequent thermal fluxes all across the planet. But with those two facts in mind, is it really so hard of a concept to grasp that these reflective gases are accelerating the process?  Or even FURTHER removed from this debate (because some people love to take it personally and refuse to admit anything involved with the erroneous term "global warming" is real),  why give a fuck what all the scientists say about the melting ice-caps, just stop polluting! even if you don't subscribe to hundreds of thousands of peer-reviewed studies and supportive data, why continue to pollute? doesn't it just seem like a bad idea to keep shitting in your own living room?


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OfflineDungenessDank
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #486866 - 10/11/10 10:54 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

But isn't kind of going out on a limb for Al Gore to say  "OMG humanz are makign the earth too hot!!"

There isn't enough data yet, it would be no better than Glenn Beck screaming about his coming apocalypse. It's all inflammatory until its proven. If I recall correctly, the past 10 years showing an overall cooling trend.

Pollution is not a good thing, but when you start to use it as an excuse to raise taxes on the people while the Navy, for example, goes out 2 miles off shore and dumps all their garbage directly into the ocean for 60+ years.

Education is the best thing that can be done about pollution, get people to understand why its bad and should give a shit.

Just because alarmists use the same method to get people riled up, doesn't mean that's what science should be using to curb pollution. Even if it's one of our largest problems as a society.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: DungenessDank]
    #486888 - 10/11/10 12:14 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

DungenessDank said:
But isn't kind of going out on a limb for Al Gore to say  "OMG humanz are makign the earth too hot!!"





Not even in the slightest. As I said, we know for absolute 100% certain fact that compounds such as Carbon Dioxide, Methane and Sulfur Hexafluoride absorb and re-radiate IR wavelengths (heat).  We also know for a fact that humans are releasing those compounds into the atmosphere. I don't see how that's a hard connection to comprehend. They reflect heat + we release them = we're contributing to rising temperatures. That's literally the most simple math problem you'll ever see in your life. :shrug:

Quote:

DungenessDank said:
There isn't enough data yet, it would be no better than Glenn Beck screaming about his coming apocalypse. It's all inflammatory until its proven. If I recall correctly, the past 10 years showing an overall cooling trend.





We're talking about long term climate trends here man. Don't take this the wrong way, because I like you and respect you as a person, but the fact that you're referencing a 10 year trend in this debate shows that you clearly don't have a firm enough grasp on the concept to really be making any sort of a statement on the subject.  That said, you're still actually not right about the last 10 years either
As for long term trends, there are FUCK TONS of studies with mountains of evidence that have been gathered. 30 seconds on Google can yield you enough sources (peer reviewed, none of those bullshit tabloid articles from either side please) to fill a textbook.

Quote:

DungenessDank said:
Pollution is not a good thing, but when you start to use it as an excuse to raise taxes on the people while the Navy, for example, goes out 2 miles off shore and dumps all their garbage directly into the ocean for 60+ years.

Education is the best thing that can be done about pollution, get people to understand why its bad and should give a shit.

Just because alarmists use the same method to get people riled up, doesn't mean that's what science should be using to curb pollution. Even if it's one of our largest problems as a society.




I agree with you 100% here. I'm really disappointed that such an important debate about pollution gets muddled over by alarmist media (from both sides of the issue) and turns this into a 9/11 conspiracy style debate rather than a productive avenue of global change


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #486889 - 10/11/10 12:17 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)



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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #486891 - 10/11/10 12:24 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

I'm sorry I can't watch that. His two sources are Bill Nye the Science Guy and the dude from AccuWeather? LOL


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #486893 - 10/11/10 12:29 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

You should give it a watch anyways.  Bill Nye owns accuweather.  Plus Bill Nye is still a scientist, and still does know his science.


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #486902 - 10/11/10 01:19 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

It's on Fox, 'nough said.


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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #486903 - 10/11/10 01:21 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
You should give it a watch anyways.  Bill Nye owns accuweather.  Plus Bill Nye is still a scientist, and still does know his science.




What kind of scientist is Bill Nye?


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: DieCommie]
    #486906 - 10/11/10 01:34 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

He worked in mechanical engineering for Boeing and helped develop technology used in the 747.

In any case I posted the video because of the idiocy of the arguments proposed by fox.


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


Edited by THEBats (10/11/10 01:46 PM)


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #486940 - 10/11/10 04:44 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

It was an interesting video, but I didn't think either of them presented their point very effectively. Unfortunately that's really your only option on a show like the O'Reilly factor however, where full scale debates are reduced into 30 second statements and frequently interrupted by commercials


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #486957 - 10/11/10 05:19 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Quote:

DungenessDank said:
But isn't kind of going out on a limb for Al Gore to say  "OMG humanz are makign the earth too hot!!"





Not even in the slightest. As I said, we know for absolute 100% certain fact that compounds such as Carbon Dioxide, Methane and Sulfur Hexafluoride absorb and re-radiate IR wavelengths (heat).  We also know for a fact that humans are releasing those compounds into the atmosphere. I don't see how that's a hard connection to comprehend. They reflect heat + we release them = we're contributing to rising temperatures. That's literally the most simple math problem you'll ever see in your life. :shrug:




Its also a bunch of bullshit math.

I can make the same week ass argument about how marijuana causes cancer. Based on how its bad to inhale burnt material and all kinds of 'correlations' on how smoking causes cancer. People used that very argument about marijuana for YEARS and no one ever argued against that 'fact' because it sounded good. Although it was a bunch of fucking bullshit, laws were made based on bullshit science. Just like they are doing with 'Global Warming'

And I'd be wrong about weed causing cancer, for the same reasons you are wrong about human based global warming.

It looks like we are  causing global warming based on bullshit correlations. Just like it looked like weed should cause cancer based on bullshit correlations. There is no hard science that proves humans are the cause of the warming trend we are experiencing.

ZERO PROOF

only correlations

"CO2 is a green house gas
we produce greenhouse gasses
soooo...... humans cause global warming"

:whatever:

That is the ONLY answer I have ever heard from you "Global Warming Nuts'

Thats BULLSHIT science mate, and you should know that.

Tha Sky's a Fallin
Tha Sky's a Fallin


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #486959 - 10/11/10 05:31 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:

"CO2 is a green house gas
we produce greenhouse gasses
soooo...... humans cause global warming"

:whatever:

That is the ONLY answer I have ever heard from you "Global Warming Nuts'

Thats BULLSHIT science mate, and you should know that.

Tha Sky's a Fallin
Tha Sky's a Fallin




Are you serious?  If you can find me ONE SINGLE PAPER that demonstrates that CO2 doesn't re-radiate Infrared wavelengths, then I'll gladly concede the point. 

The fact is that it DOES. Plain and simple.  Like literally, it's not even up for debate. Do some research into the mechanism by which is (and numerous other compounds) do so and you'll see plain as day that they reflect those particular wavelengths. Quite frankly, if you do your research and still can confidently say that it's bullshit, then clearly the only reason you're able to state such a deluded point is because you're not capable of comprehending the mechanism by which it happens. :shrug:

Here's some light reading to get you started, but in no way an exhaustive resource; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mie_theory , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering

also, calling us "global warming nuts" and saying it's bullshit science is the sort of Ad hominem personal attack that just makes you look ignorant and immature.  If you can't refrain from those sorts of comments I'll just have to assume you're not mature enough to debate this intelligently and I'll assume that even attempting to explain my point is a waste of my time.

Although to be perfectly honest it's pretty clear that you've never set foot inside a science classroom of any level higher than high-school, so I find it a bit comedic that you're trying to assert any sort of intellectual might to the conversation in calling other people's research "bullshit."


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #486960 - 10/11/10 05:45 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

:laugh2:

WOW, not only have I called this 'science' bullshit....

Quote:

US physics professor Harold Lewis, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of California, Santa Barbara said: 'Global warming is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life'




.....said the exact same thing. You're just butt hurt over the fact that your 'science' is bullshit.

Yes, CO2 is a green house gas. Im not disputing that fact. I am disputing the 'fact' that humans are causing global warming.

There is NO EVIDENCE for your assumption. Just correlations.

Maybe your the one that's been snowed by this 'pseudoscientific fraud' :lol:


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #486964 - 10/11/10 06:07 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

But isn't pollution bad for our planet? So technically, since we're the main contributors to pollution. Aren't we causing our planet to die that much quicker? :shrug: Whether or not global warming exists doesn't matter. The fact remains that we are still shitting on our planet every day.

:protest: Stop taking a shit on our planet!!

Live GREEN! :awehigh: :awethumb:


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"I know that I know nothing"


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: DRAGON]
    #486965 - 10/11/10 06:09 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

I have never said that we should continue to pollute the planet.

Not once have I said that.


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #486969 - 10/11/10 06:18 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

well then I think you're simply misunderstanding the position. I don't think there's a single person on the planet who would argue that humans are the ONLY cause for global warming, but if CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and humans emit CO2, then how can you possibly say that humans have absolutely no contribution to it?


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #486970 - 10/11/10 06:19 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Well really the argument is more that we're contributing to global warming, now isn't it?

Also nite owl, you're using a base rate fallacy.  Yes you've found someone with credentials that doesn't believe in global warming, but fail to take into account all the vast amount of data supported by people with equally qualifying or better credentials. 


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


Edited by THEBats (10/11/10 06:23 PM)


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #486971 - 10/11/10 06:23 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)


Allz of yallz just got owned.
:aweface:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #486974 - 10/11/10 06:42 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
Also nite owl, you're using a base rate fallacy.  Yes you've found someone with credentials that doesn't believe in global warming, but fail to take into account all the vast amount of data supported by people with equally qualifying or better credentials.




No I have not failed to consider the 'hundreds of others that do believe'. I also understand how policies and peer pressure are used at a worksite. I believe that a vast majority of those that 'believe' are saying so just to keep their jobs. It is no coincidence that the scientist in the OP makes these claims as he retires.

It is virtually political suicide these days to go against 'Human Based Global Warming Theory' (HBGWT). It has become far too politicized for me to believe now. I actually have questioned the HBGLT from the start. All they ever so is use correlations, and that is not good science.

Yes, we produce green house gasses but....

What percentage of those gasses could be used by the plants near highways?
We don't know.
What percentage falls to the ground?
Don't know.
What percentage goes all the way to the stratosphere and is actually causing a problem?
Don't know.

All they ever say is...

We produce green house gasses
Green house gasses drive global warming
We are the cause of global warming

correlation does not = causation

ITS BULLSHIT FUCKING SCIENCE GUYS!!!!!


--------------------
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that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #486975 - 10/11/10 06:46 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:


Yes, we produce green house gasses but....

What percentage of those gasses could be used by the plants near highways?
We don't know.
What percentage falls to the ground?
Don't know.
What percentage goes all the way to the stratosphere and is actually causing a problem?
Don't know.

ITS BULLSHIT FUCKING SCIENCE GUYS!!!!!




1) Yes we do. The answer is "not anywhere near as much as we're emitting."
2) Yes we do. This is very fucking easy to measure also, and a perfect example of what I mean when I say that you're speaking way out of your league.
3) Once again; yes, we do know. Additionally, it's not just CO2 in the stratosphere that causes the issue. I don't know where you heard that the stratosphere was the only important layer of the atmosphere, but it's a pretty laughable notion for you to even bring up.

The only bullshit science going on in this debate is uneducated people like yourself who blindly spout ignorant fallacies without any sort of legitimate reason to bring them up.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #486978 - 10/11/10 06:52 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

What's your peer reviewed journal of choice?  How much data have you gone through to reach this conclusion?  Sleepless hours I assume.

Using an argument of peer pressure makes no argument against global warming itself.  Going against Darwinian evolution is also academic suicide, that doesn't mean that the theory of evolution is any less valid.

You're starting to sound like Ben Stein, rather than scientifically debating the data you debate the circumstances under which the data is created.


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #486979 - 10/11/10 06:54 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Stratosphere was probably the only layer he could name off the top of his head.


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #486983 - 10/11/10 07:08 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Another argument to present is that yes, plants are natural absorbers of CO2.  However not only are we exceeding their capacity to absorb it but our continued deforestation is only making the situation worse. 

I don't see what's so hard to understand.  CO2 is a greenhouse gas which is normally recycled by plants to create sugars.  We have not only in the last hundred years increased our CO2 output, but we have reduced the foliage necessary to recycle the CO2.  Add onto the fact that a common way to clear jungle in the amazon for farms is by controlled burning it shouldn't be hard to see our continued methods are worsening our planets ability to recycle CO2, which increased concentrations cause warming.

Jungle doesn't just grow back you know.


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #487046 - 10/11/10 10:40 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
You're starting to sound like Ben Stein, rather than scientifically debating the data you debate the circumstances under which the data is created.




Ha, thats funny because I remember debating evolution with him a few years back.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: DieCommie]
    #487371 - 10/12/10 09:59 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

For all the Global Warming Fundies Please watch this video by a guy that completely debunks the whole Global Warming Hoax. He exposes the lies and the corrupt 'science' that Al Gore used in his film An Inconvenient Truth.

The whole thing is a politically driven hoax.

Take the 1.5 hours of your day to watch this presentation. Since it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Global Warming Theory is a bold faced LIE



--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #487485 - 10/13/10 08:45 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
The only bullshit science going on in this debate is uneducated people like yourself who blindly spout ignorant fallacies without any sort of legitimate reason to bring them up.




:whatever:

The whole Global Warming Scare is based on bullshit science.
Stats were pulled out of politicians asses
Glaring facts that disprove the theory were ignored
Time after time the politicians either ignored or changed the scientists information.

The video I posted is begging you to prove it wrong.

Although you wont be able to, I'm dying to hear your retort on it.


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #487498 - 10/13/10 09:52 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I'm a little hesitant to waste my time watching and rebuking that video because the last 10 "facts" from you that I've debunked have gone completely ignored. I'd appreciate if you'd take the time to respond to TheBats and Myself as we've taken for you. Otherwise this is less of a debate and more of us just talking to the internet for no reason.  We've made some very legitimate points, and you seem to just completely skim over them and ignore that they exist because they don't fit in with your conspiracy-nut worldview


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #487513 - 10/13/10 11:10 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
For all the Global Warming Fundies Please watch this video by a guy that completely debunks the whole Global Warming Hoax. He exposes the lies and the corrupt 'science' that Al Gore used in his film An Inconvenient Truth.




Irrelevant: Al Gore is not a climatologist. If you'd like discuss actual science instead of popular film I'll take this seriously.

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
I'm a little hesitant to waste my time watching and rebuking that video because the last 10 "facts" from you that I've debunked have gone completely ignored. I'd appreciate if you'd take the time to respond to TheBats and Myself as we've taken for you. Otherwise this is less of a debate and more of us just talking to the internet for no reason.  We've made some very legitimate points, and you seem to just completely skim over them and ignore that they exist because they don't fit in with your conspiracy-nut worldview




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: NizzyJones]
    #487514 - 10/13/10 11:12 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

THEbats said:

Quote:

niteowl said:
For all the Global Warming Fundies Please watch this video by a guy that completely debunks the whole Global Warming Hoax. He exposes the lies and the corrupt 'science' that Al Gore used in his film An Inconvenient Truth.

The whole thing is a politically driven hoax.

Take the 1.5 hours of your day to watch this presentation. Since it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Global Warming Theory is a bold faced LIE

.

Quote:

THEBats said:
Now tell me, why on earth would I trust the opinion of a Roman Catholic politician over someone who actually works in the field of science?  Hell, any field of science would do, but this guy does not have a degree in anything remotely related to science.  Not to mention his view on AIDS is as follows, ""There is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month ... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently."

Rather than posting videos which you think answer your questions for you, which they don't as there's plenty of faulty science in that video, why don't you debate us word for word? Rather than copy and paste, watch videos on the subject from people not qualified enough to teach high school science, why don't you make an attempt to express yourself in your own words, and debate our points made.







--------------------


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: T-Rex]
    #487570 - 10/13/10 01:49 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Is anyone knowledgeable on those claims that the whole solar system is warming?
Is there sustenance to that?


--------------------
King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: drawde]
    #487573 - 10/13/10 02:08 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

The only evidence for that is the planet mars, and even then scientists link other factors for mars warming and don't detect an overall warming trend for the planet globally but rather a regional trend.


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: drawde] * 1
    #487599 - 10/13/10 03:28 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

drawde said:
Is there sustenance to that?




That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: NizzyJones]
    #487604 - 10/13/10 03:33 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

What is causing global warming if it is not human emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere?


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: SmOakland]
    #487609 - 10/13/10 03:57 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

well it's actually a very complex equation involving Milankovitch cycles, Solar output variation, and alteration of global Albedo (from ice-recession, and land-use change).  That said, we have a very good handle on exactly how much those other variables influence our climate (it's literally one of the oldest sciences in existence), both in historical trends, empirical data, and from climatological modeling.  We can say with a very high degree of certainty that the rate of temperature change we're experiencing right now is considerably above the historical and predicted rates. Nearly every single climate model, no matter how complex, falls below our current rate of change until they factor in anthropogenic carbon emissions.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #487718 - 10/13/10 10:09 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
We can say with a very high degree of certainty that the rate of temperature change we're experiencing right now is considerably above the historical and predicted rates.




You need to check who did those 'tests'. Many were blown out of proportion.......

Such results add to the overwhelming evidence provided by other paleoclimate records that have shown, in their words, that "Holocene climate was punctuated by widespread cooling events, recurring every ~1500 ± 500 years (Bond et al., 1997; Bianchi and McCave, 1999; Broecker, 2000; Mayewski et al., 2004; Debret et al., 2007; Allen et al., 2007)." And since this periodicity suggests that the world was fully ripe for a recovery from the last of these coolings (i.e., the Little Ice Age), 20th-century global warming is seen to be neither unusual, unnatural nor unprecedented,  which latter three adjectives are routinely - but very wrongly - used by climate alarmists to suggest that the most recent upward swing of this recurrent temperature cycle was caused by anthropogenic CO2 emissions. It was not. It was merely time for the earth to naturally recover from the coldest interval of the current interglacial period, which further suggests that a good deal of warming was only to be expected.
link

Virtually every study done on medieval climate (prior to the global warming scare ~1990-95) showed a much higher mean temp than they show now.

Quote:

Nearly every single climate model, no matter how complex, falls below our current rate of change until they factor in anthropogenic carbon emissions.




Here is another article that flies in the face of global warming....

A recent article in the journal Science has provided a new, detailed climate record for the Medieval Climate Anomaly (MCA), also know as the Medieval Warm Period. It was the most recent pre-industrial warm period, noted in Europe and elsewhere around the globe. The researchers present a 947-year-long multi-decadal North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) reconstruction and find a persistent positive NAO during the MCA. The interesting thing is that the MCA had basically been removed from the climate record by Michael Mann’s infamous “hockey stick” history graph that was adopted by the IPCC a decade ago.

...

The bottom line? Once again the climate models used by the IPCC and other climate catastrophists are shown to be inaccurate, incomplete and not up to the job of predicting future climatic conditions. What does the IPCC have to say about all of this? Here is a quote from Paleoclimate, chapter 6 of the 2007 IPCC report:

    "Palaeoclimate science has made significant advances since the 1970s, when a primary focus was on the origin of the ice ages, the possibility of an imminent future ice age, and the first explorations of the so-called Little Ice Age and Medieval Warm Period. Even in the first IPCC assessment (IPCC, 1990), many climatic variations prior to the instrumental record were not that well known or understood. Fifteen years later, understanding is much improved, more quantitative and better integrated with respect to observations and modelling."   

Meaning all of the earlier IPCC predictions were wrong because they really didn’t know what they were doing. Of course that didn’t prevent them from predicting a coming climate catastrophe with great confidence. The thing that they don’t tell us is that their current “improved” predictions, which are also based on computer models, simply can not be considered accurate either. If the Holocene truly marks the end of the Pleistocene Ice Age and a return to the conditions that prevailed during the Pliocene, parking your SUV and buying carbon credits won’t do a thing to stop it.

link

.....

and another......The `Hockey Stick': A New Low in Climate Science

In 1995, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) released its 5-yearly report on climate change [10], in a blaze of publicity, which contained the now infamous phrase that there was "a discernible human influence on global climate".

In their previous 1990 report [33], the IPCC illustrated their, then, understanding of how global climate had changed, not just during the previous 95 years, but also the past 1,000 years. In so doing they presented this graph (Fig 1.) of temperature change since 900 AD.


Fig.1 - Global temperature since 900 AD

This graph asserts that temperatures during the Medieval Warm Period were higher than those of today (as suggested by the opening lines to the Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer), while it was much cooler during the Little Ice Age (as suggested by John King). Historical records from all over Europe, and Greenland attest to the reality of both events, and their profound impact on human society. For example, the colonisation of Greenland by the Vikings early in the millennium was only possible because of the medieval warmth. During the Little Ice Age, the Viking colonies in Greenland collapsed, while the River Thames in London often froze over, resulting in frequent `frost fairs' being held on the river ice.

The dating of these two climatic events depends to some extent on what one regards as `warm' and `cold' in comparison with present temperatures, but the following dating approximates these events -

      1) `Medieval Warm Period' (AD 700 - 1300)
      2) `Sporer Minimum' cool period (AD 1300 - 1500)
      3) Brief climatic warming (AD 1500 - 1560)
      4) `Little Ice Age' (`Maunder Minimum') (AD 1560 - 1830)
      5) Brief warmer period (AD 1830 - 1870)
      6) Brief cool period (AD 1870 - 1910)
      7) 20th century warm period (AD 1910 - 2000)

As to what caused these two major climatic events, the most probable candidate is the variable sun, particularly with respect to the Little Ice Age. This is because we have direct observations of sunspot counts going back to 1600 AD, which allows us to compare variations in the sun with variations to global climate. Fig.2 shows how the sun has changed over time, the radiation being greatest during a sunspot maximum and least during a sunspot minimum, both recurring on an 11-year cycle.


Fig.2 - The Solar Cycle since 1600 AD

This account of climatic history contains two serious difficulties for the present global warming theory.

      1) If the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than today, with no greenhouse gas contribution, what would be so unusual about modern times being warm also?

      2) If the variable sun caused both the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age, would not the stronger solar activity of the 20th century account for most, if not all, of the claimed 20th century warmth?

Both propositions posed a serious threat to continued public acceptance of the climate modeller's catastrophic view of future climate. This is because new findings in solar science suggested that the sun, not greenhouse gases, were the primary driver of 20th century climate trends.

Dr Michael Mann of the Department of Geosciences, University of Massachusetts was the primary author of the GRL paper, and in one scientific coup overturned the whole of climate history [16].

Using tree rings as a basis for assessing past temperature changes back to the year 1,000 AD, supplemented by other proxies from more recent centuries, Mann completely redrew the history, turning the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age into non-events, consigned to a kind of Orwellian `memory hole' [22]. Fig.4 shows Mann's revision of the climatic history of the last millennium.


Fig.4 - The `Hockey Stick'

At that point, Mann completed the coup and crudely grafted the surface temperature record of the 20th century (shown in red and itself largely the product of urban heat islands) onto the pre-1900 tree ring record. The effect was visually dramatic as the 20th century was portrayed as a climate rocketing out of control. The red line extends all the way to 1998 (Mann's `warmest year of the millennium'), a year warmed by the big El Niño of that year. It should be noted that the surface record is completely at variance with the satellite temperature record [20]. Had the latter been used to represent the last 20 years, the effect would have been to make the 20th century much less significant when compared with earlier centuries.

As a piece of science and statistics it was seriously flawed as two data series representing such different variables as temperature and tree rings simply cannot be credibly grafted together into a single series.

In every other science when such a drastic revision of previously accepted knowledge is promulgated, there is considerable debate and initial scepticism, the new theory facing a gauntlet of criticism and intense review. Only if a new idea survives that process does it become broadly accepted by the scientific peer group and the public at large.




Now that I have provided you with evidence that the IPCC was toying with the numbers....will you please take the time to watch that video. He goes into far more detail on the hoax than I can.


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #487719 - 10/13/10 10:10 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

fuck I had like 10 windows ...er tabs, open for that post, Im surprised my browser didn't crash :lol:


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


Edited by niteowl (10/13/10 10:12 PM)


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Offlinekyuzo
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #487771 - 10/13/10 11:26 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

was any of that material even peer-reviewed?


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: kyuzo] * 1
    #487886 - 10/14/10 12:26 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Earth has gone through many hot times. Back in the Renaissance time they had record heat waves just like we are having. The sun is having increased solar activity which is completely normal, if you research you will find that saturn, jupiter etc. Are actually heating up as well. So it is not just us, and the nwo and government are using this as an excuse that WE are causing this but this is false. The excuse gave the government the right to throw carbon taxes on us and many other taxes. And if really pay attention now they are saying(or have ben saying) That kids are adding to this. Gore pitched that humans are leaving a carbon foot print due to high child birth rates etc.
And if you look china has already put law on child birth. Chinese are only allowed to have one child per family, first where fined for having more, now they are being jailed for having more then 1 child per household. Eventually the sun will calm down and the heat will recede, this has nothing to do with humans. The arctic ice melting etc, it's caused by the sun heating the earth, not the earth trapping gasses. This is also giving them the excuse to spray chem. trails into the atmosphere.
Their flawed logic is spraying chemicals, aluminum's and metals into the atmosphere will help "reflect" the sun. They create a panic, and then provide a solution that they see fit. you have to understand carbon levels have ben high in the past, this is normal. Just because its happening now does not mean that we are the main cause.I do believe it is a hoax, its ben proven they paid off half the scientists who claimed global warming was happening to say it was happening.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: NizzyJones]
    #487923 - 10/14/10 02:00 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

NizzyJones said:
Quote:

drawde said:
Is there sustenance to that?




That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.




Sorry, substance*. Was stoned... :blush:


--------------------
King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: DoctorDarkMatter]
    #487929 - 10/14/10 02:33 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

DoctorDarkMatter said:
Earth has gone through many hot times. Back in the Renaissance time they had record heat waves just like we are having. The sun is having increased solar activity which is completely normal, if you research you will find that saturn, jupiter etc. Are actually heating up as well. So it is not just us, and the nwo and government are using this as an excuse that WE are causing this but this is false. The excuse gave the government the right to throw carbon taxes on us and many other taxes. And if really pay attention now they are saying(or have ben saying) That kids are adding to this. Gore pitched that humans are leaving a carbon foot print due to high child birth rates etc.
And if you look china has already put law on child birth. Chinese are only allowed to have one child per family, first where fined for having more, now they are being jailed for having more then 1 child per household. Eventually the sun will calm down and the heat will recede, this has nothing to do with humans. The arctic ice melting etc, it's caused by the sun heating the earth, not the earth trapping gasses. This is also giving them the excuse to spray chem. trails into the atmosphere.
Their flawed logic is spraying chemicals, aluminum's and metals into the atmosphere will help "reflect" the sun. They create a panic, and then provide a solution that they see fit. you have to understand carbon levels have ben high in the past, this is normal. Just because its happening now does not mean that we are the main cause.I do believe it is a hoax, its ben proven they paid off half the scientists who claimed global warming was happening to say it was happening.




A couple things are evident from reading your post;

1) you've never actually taken a science class, nor do you have any idea what you're talking about.
2) you're a conspiracy nut. I mean really, bringing chemtrails into this discussion? :rolleyes:
3) you didn't read a single post in this thread.
4) you don't understand anything about the sun. We actually just went through a period of DECREASED solar activity, indicated by a sharp decline in sun spots (as well as a complete and utter lack of them for a 2-month period this summer).

Thanks for joining in!


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #487955 - 10/14/10 03:50 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Just be glad he has access to the internet and isn't forced to yell at random pedestrians on the street corner; like they did in the Good'ol Days


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #488279 - 10/15/10 07:12 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
We can say with a very high degree of certainty that the rate of temperature change we're experiencing right now is considerably above the historical and predicted rates.




You need to check who did those 'tests'. Many were blown out of proportion.......

Such results add to the overwhelming evidence provided by other paleoclimate records that have shown, in their words, that "Holocene climate was punctuated by widespread cooling events, recurring every ~1500 ± 500 years (Bond et al., 1997; Bianchi and McCave, 1999; Broecker, 2000; Mayewski et al., 2004; Debret et al., 2007; Allen et al., 2007)." And since this periodicity suggests that the world was fully ripe for a recovery from the last of these coolings (i.e., the Little Ice Age), 20th-century global warming is seen to be neither unusual, unnatural nor unprecedented,  which latter three adjectives are routinely - but very wrongly - used by climate alarmists to suggest that the most recent upward swing of this recurrent temperature cycle was caused by anthropogenic CO2 emissions. It was not. It was merely time for the earth to naturally recover from the coldest interval of the current interglacial period, which further suggests that a good deal of warming was only to be expected.
link

Virtually every study done on medieval climate (prior to the global warming scare ~1990-95) showed a much higher mean temp than they show now.

Quote:

Nearly every single climate model, no matter how complex, falls below our current rate of change until they factor in anthropogenic carbon emissions.




Here is another article that flies in the face of global warming....

A recent article in the journal Science has provided a new, detailed climate record for the Medieval Climate Anomaly (MCA), also know as the Medieval Warm Period. It was the most recent pre-industrial warm period, noted in Europe and elsewhere around the globe. The researchers present a 947-year-long multi-decadal North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) reconstruction and find a persistent positive NAO during the MCA. The interesting thing is that the MCA had basically been removed from the climate record by Michael Mann’s infamous “hockey stick” history graph that was adopted by the IPCC a decade ago.

...

The bottom line? Once again the climate models used by the IPCC and other climate catastrophists are shown to be inaccurate, incomplete and not up to the job of predicting future climatic conditions. What does the IPCC have to say about all of this? Here is a quote from Paleoclimate, chapter 6 of the 2007 IPCC report:

    "Palaeoclimate science has made significant advances since the 1970s, when a primary focus was on the origin of the ice ages, the possibility of an imminent future ice age, and the first explorations of the so-called Little Ice Age and Medieval Warm Period. Even in the first IPCC assessment (IPCC, 1990), many climatic variations prior to the instrumental record were not that well known or understood. Fifteen years later, understanding is much improved, more quantitative and better integrated with respect to observations and modelling."   

Meaning all of the earlier IPCC predictions were wrong because they really didn’t know what they were doing. Of course that didn’t prevent them from predicting a coming climate catastrophe with great confidence. The thing that they don’t tell us is that their current “improved” predictions, which are also based on computer models, simply can not be considered accurate either. If the Holocene truly marks the end of the Pleistocene Ice Age and a return to the conditions that prevailed during the Pliocene, parking your SUV and buying carbon credits won’t do a thing to stop it.

link

.....

and another......The `Hockey Stick': A New Low in Climate Science

In 1995, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) released its 5-yearly report on climate change [10], in a blaze of publicity, which contained the now infamous phrase that there was "a discernible human influence on global climate".

In their previous 1990 report [33], the IPCC illustrated their, then, understanding of how global climate had changed, not just during the previous 95 years, but also the past 1,000 years. In so doing they presented this graph (Fig 1.) of temperature change since 900 AD.


Fig.1 - Global temperature since 900 AD

This graph asserts that temperatures during the Medieval Warm Period were higher than those of today (as suggested by the opening lines to the Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer), while it was much cooler during the Little Ice Age (as suggested by John King). Historical records from all over Europe, and Greenland attest to the reality of both events, and their profound impact on human society. For example, the colonisation of Greenland by the Vikings early in the millennium was only possible because of the medieval warmth. During the Little Ice Age, the Viking colonies in Greenland collapsed, while the River Thames in London often froze over, resulting in frequent `frost fairs' being held on the river ice.

The dating of these two climatic events depends to some extent on what one regards as `warm' and `cold' in comparison with present temperatures, but the following dating approximates these events -

      1) `Medieval Warm Period' (AD 700 - 1300)
      2) `Sporer Minimum' cool period (AD 1300 - 1500)
      3) Brief climatic warming (AD 1500 - 1560)
      4) `Little Ice Age' (`Maunder Minimum') (AD 1560 - 1830)
      5) Brief warmer period (AD 1830 - 1870)
      6) Brief cool period (AD 1870 - 1910)
      7) 20th century warm period (AD 1910 - 2000)

As to what caused these two major climatic events, the most probable candidate is the variable sun, particularly with respect to the Little Ice Age. This is because we have direct observations of sunspot counts going back to 1600 AD, which allows us to compare variations in the sun with variations to global climate. Fig.2 shows how the sun has changed over time, the radiation being greatest during a sunspot maximum and least during a sunspot minimum, both recurring on an 11-year cycle.


Fig.2 - The Solar Cycle since 1600 AD

This account of climatic history contains two serious difficulties for the present global warming theory.

      1) If the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than today, with no greenhouse gas contribution, what would be so unusual about modern times being warm also?

      2) If the variable sun caused both the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age, would not the stronger solar activity of the 20th century account for most, if not all, of the claimed 20th century warmth?

Both propositions posed a serious threat to continued public acceptance of the climate modeller's catastrophic view of future climate. This is because new findings in solar science suggested that the sun, not greenhouse gases, were the primary driver of 20th century climate trends.

Dr Michael Mann of the Department of Geosciences, University of Massachusetts was the primary author of the GRL paper, and in one scientific coup overturned the whole of climate history [16].

Using tree rings as a basis for assessing past temperature changes back to the year 1,000 AD, supplemented by other proxies from more recent centuries, Mann completely redrew the history, turning the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age into non-events, consigned to a kind of Orwellian `memory hole' [22]. Fig.4 shows Mann's revision of the climatic history of the last millennium.


Fig.4 - The `Hockey Stick'

At that point, Mann completed the coup and crudely grafted the surface temperature record of the 20th century (shown in red and itself largely the product of urban heat islands) onto the pre-1900 tree ring record. The effect was visually dramatic as the 20th century was portrayed as a climate rocketing out of control. The red line extends all the way to 1998 (Mann's `warmest year of the millennium'), a year warmed by the big El Niño of that year. It should be noted that the surface record is completely at variance with the satellite temperature record [20]. Had the latter been used to represent the last 20 years, the effect would have been to make the 20th century much less significant when compared with earlier centuries.

As a piece of science and statistics it was seriously flawed as two data series representing such different variables as temperature and tree rings simply cannot be credibly grafted together into a single series.

In every other science when such a drastic revision of previously accepted knowledge is promulgated, there is considerable debate and initial scepticism, the new theory facing a gauntlet of criticism and intense review. Only if a new idea survives that process does it become broadly accepted by the scientific peer group and the public at large.




Now that I have provided you with evidence that the IPCC was toying with the numbers....will you please take the time to watch that video. He goes into far more detail on the hoax than I can.




Can you do anything other than copy and paste?  I really don't have the time to go through these individually, nor would I give the time and effort as you chose not to debate this in a personal matter.  Anyone can copy and paste conflicting evidence, for whatever argument.  It takes no thought to do so and doesn't show me at all that you really understand anything that they're talking about.

"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."
    Bertrand Russell

Again you ask him to take a look at that video, made by a Roman Catholic politician.  Why is he at all credible?  If he were debating against evolution, which he doesn't believe in BTW, you would find all reason to discredit him and count him off as ignorant.  But because he supports your view you'll ignore all the reasons why his presentation is flawed.

"If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way."
    Bertrand Russell


I think perhaps it's best to let this debate die, because clearly you've ignored all the past times you've been incorrect and, unable to debate in your own words for lack of understanding on the subject matter, have resorted to copy and pasting supporting arguments, none of which directly respond to the arguments presented both by Harry and myself.

Your argument of data manipulation also is weak.  Similarly do some reference the piltdown skeleton for reasons to not trust evolution science. It makes no attempt to actually argue against evolution.


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #488291 - 10/15/10 08:18 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
:bitch:




I state my opinion and you ask me to back them up with evidence.
I back them up with solid evidence, and you threaten to close the thread
claiming that you can't/won't dispute the facts you asked me to show.

:whatever:

The only evidence/argument given by you and others is

Humans make CO2 ...
CO2 is a greenhouse gas therefore ...
Humans are responsible for Global Warming


:huxleyfacepalm:

You reword it differently, but it all boils down to the same tired ass argument.

Here let me say this again

I never said that CO2 wasn't a greenhouse gas. Just that the evidence for humans effect on the planet was either consequential or non existent.

I never believed the story from the start. I doubted the alarmists 'science' from the very beginning. A lot of the 'new data' (the overblown stats on how much warmer it is now than 5oo years ago) went against much older proof otherwise. Too many people (politicians) were making too big a deal about this far, FAR too fast. (just like the swine flu scare that I called BS on)

Scare tactics are a proven way for politicians to get laws changed. And this screams SCARE TACTIC to me, and has for a long, LONG time.

I simply haven't seen enough solid evidence to say that humans are having a major global effect on the climate. I have compared data from post 1990 til today. I've spent many hours doing searches and reading, from many different sources (both for and against the theory). And there was a drastic change (especially in the IPCC) between 1990-95.

You think that I'm ignorant of certain facts, and I'm not. I'm just not going to buy into every scare tactic that the media puts out. :ohwell:


--------------------
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like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #488293 - 10/15/10 08:28 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

THEBats said:
:bitch:





The only evidence/argument given by you and others is

Humans make CO2 ...
CO2 is a greenhouse gas therefore ...
Humans are responsible for Global Warming






If that's seriously the only argument you picked up in this entire thread then, I don't know what to say. Practice critical reading more?

Also your cute little graems only show how you can't handle this debate in a mature fashion.  And you didn't back up your claims with solid evidence.  Multiple times were you corrected on your "facts" but you have no response to that. Why would I waste my time when you are just going to ignore conflicting evidence, as you have throughout this thread?


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


Edited by THEBats (10/15/10 08:29 PM)


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #488299 - 10/15/10 08:48 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

THEBats said:
:bitch:





The only evidence/argument given by you and others is

Humans make CO2 ...
CO2 is a greenhouse gas therefore ...
Humans are responsible for Global Warming






If that's seriously the only argument you picked up in this entire thread then, I don't know what to say. Practice critical reading more?




OK....here are the arguments in this thread so far....

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Not even in the slightest. As I said, we know for absolute 100% certain fact that compounds such as Carbon Dioxide, Methane and Sulfur Hexafluoride absorb and re-radiate IR wavelengths (heat).  We also know for a fact that humans are releasing those compounds into the atmosphere. I don't see how that's a hard connection to comprehend. They reflect heat + we release them = we're contributing to rising temperatures. That's literally the most simple math problem you'll ever see in your life.




ummm....

Humans make CO2 ...
CO2 is a greenhouse gas therefore ...
Humans are responsible for Global Warming


Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
well then I think you're simply misunderstanding the position. I don't think there's a single person on the planet who would argue that humans are the ONLY cause for global warming, but if CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and humans emit CO2, then how can you possibly say that humans have absolutely no contribution to it?




Humans make CO2 ...
CO2 is a greenhouse gas therefore ...
Humans are responsible for Global Warming


Quote:

THEBats said:
I don't see what's so hard to understand.  CO2 is a greenhouse gas ...... bla bla bla......it shouldn't be hard to see our continued methods are worsening our planets ability to recycle CO2, which increased concentrations cause warming




Humans make CO2 ...
CO2 is a greenhouse gas therefore ...
Humans are responsible for Global Warming


Its the same tired correlation over and over each time. :facepalm:


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #488308 - 10/15/10 09:14 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Wow you really are that dense, aren't you? With the exception of the second quote you posted, none of those make the argument cut and dry that:

Humans make CO2...
CO2 is a greenhouse gas therefore...
Humans are responsible for global warming.

And even then the second quote says in plain text that you would be ignorant to think humans are the sole cause of global warming.  We contribute, and to say we don't is ignorant.  The only real debate is how much our contribution effects the planet as a whole.

Funny that you edit the third quote, "blah blah."  You're only making it clear that you're choosing to ignore supporting evidence.  Not one of us has been arguing that human emissions are solely to blame, and that "blah blah" is supporting evidence of that.

Hey look, I can put text in bold too.

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
well it's actually a very complex equation involving Milankovitch cycles, Solar output variation, and alteration of global Albedo (from ice-recession, and land-use change).  That said, we have a very good handle on exactly how much those other variables influence our climate (it's literally one of the oldest sciences in existence), both in historical trends, empirical data, and from climatological modeling.  We can say with a very high degree of certainty that the rate of temperature change we're experiencing right now is considerably above the historical and predicted rates. Nearly every single climate model, no matter how complex, falls below our current rate of change until they factor in anthropogenic carbon emissions.




--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #488396 - 10/16/10 12:28 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Every time I flick my lighter I heat up the earth.  Its a no-brainer, I can feel the heat myself.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: DieCommie]
    #488513 - 10/16/10 06:35 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Ok, since no one wants to hear any facts from me.
What about climatologists and other weather related scientists de-bunking the GWH

















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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #488517 - 10/16/10 06:43 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Or perhaps you should give it a rest?  There's a reason those videos don't allow comments.  My whole previous arguments were against you using preformed arguments from climate skeptics.

And documentaries are some of the worst places to get information on the subject.  They're rife with ways to influence and leave out data.  I mean just listen to the music at the beginning of the film.  Pretty ominous, right? I guess the only way we can end this debate for sure is for you to go out and gather the data yourself, because clearly any data that goes against your view is flawed, or manipulated. Or you just ignore it.

The only person you're trying to convince here anymore is yourself. 



Either way, is the legislature so bad?  If global warming does turn out to be false is the change related to coming to the false conclusion so bad?


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


Edited by THEBats (10/16/10 07:12 PM)


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #488535 - 10/16/10 07:27 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Ok, first, why should I watch any video you present when you blatantly refuse to watch any I post?

Quote:

Either way, is the legislature so bad?  If global warming does turn out to be false is the change related to coming to the false conclusion so bad?




Yea, when the new legislation puts sever restrictions on how developing countries can use fossil fuels....

Watch part 8 of that video series to get an idea of what the new legislation would do.

That video series takes all of the 'threats and predictions' from teh GWH and rips them apart. The planet was far warmer eons ago with far more C02 and there was never a 20ft rise in ocean levels.

The whole thing was based on made up stats. There are even scientists from the IPCC in that documentary that say the same thing.

Yet every time someone posts any evidence against the GWH then you blindly stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALA IM NOT GONNA WATCH THAT LALALALA"

:whatever:


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that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #488545 - 10/16/10 07:40 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Ok, first, why should I watch any video you present when you blatantly refuse to watch any I post?

Quote:

Either way, is the legislature so bad?  If global warming does turn out to be false is the change related to coming to the false conclusion so bad?




Yea, when the new legislation puts sever restrictions on how developing countries can use fossil fuels....

Watch part 8 of that video series to get an idea of what the new legislation would do.

That video series takes all of the 'threats and predictions' from teh GWH and rips them apart. The planet was far warmer eons ago with far more C02 and there was never a 20ft rise in ocean levels.

The whole thing was based on made up stats. There are even scientists from the IPCC in that documentary that say the same thing.

Yet every time someone posts any evidence against the GWH then you blindly stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALA IM NOT GONNA WATCH THAT LALALALA"

:whatever:




Again with the reading comprehension.  Not your strong suit is it?  Where did I ask you to watch anything?  Besides that fact, that video doesn't argue for or against global warming.  It's not designed to make a persuasive argument either way.

Also we have multiple times corrected data you have posted, we did not ignore it.  We only started to ignore your drivel when you went about the thread as if you weren't proven wrong before on multiple points. 

Again with the graems.  Something tells me you're getting butthurt, which is why you're resorting to such childish actions.

Also common sense would tell you that fossil fuels, being a finite resource are only going to become more scarce.  Supply and demand, developing countries are not going to be able to afford them in the coming future as first world nations buy them up.  As long as there's provisions to switch these countries to renewable resources I see no reason why it's absurd to start putting restrictions on their use now.


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


Edited by THEBats (10/16/10 07:57 PM)


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #488682 - 10/17/10 03:54 AM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said: The planet was far warmer eons ago with far more C02 and there was never a 20ft rise in ocean levels.





yes it was, but does that in ANY way justify pollution right now?

Oh, and yes, the oceans were absolutely higher back then. significantly more than 20ft as well.... I don't think you're accurately comprehending how much water is stored in ice caps on our planet


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #488683 - 10/17/10 04:26 AM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
yes it was, but does that in ANY way justify pollution right now?




Again......WHEN DID I EVER SAY THAT :imslow:

Just that adding CO2 to the air has little to nothing to do with the current global warming trend :flowstone:


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that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #488756 - 10/17/10 12:36 PM (10 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Either way, is the legislature so bad?  If global warming does turn out to be false is the change related to coming to the false conclusion so bad?




Yea, when the new legislation puts sever restrictions on how developing countries can use fossil fuels....





Right there :flowstone:

you're basically saying that you'd rather have developing countries allowed free reign on emissions than have any sort of regulation that protects the wellbeing of our planet


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #488962 - 10/17/10 09:13 PM (10 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Either way, is the legislature so bad?  If global warming does turn out to be false is the change related to coming to the false conclusion so bad?




Yea, when the new legislation puts sever restrictions on how developing countries can use fossil fuels....





Right there :flowstone:

you're basically saying that you'd rather have developing countries allowed free reign on emissions than have any sort of regulation that protects the wellbeing of our planet




:rolleyes:

I love how you think that the opposite of severe = none :facepalm:

When legislation makes farmers grow corn for bio-diesel instead of food for people. Guess what, the price of food goes up. Paying a bit more for food is not an issue for you and I, but it is for people in Haiti/Africa.

We legislated higher food prices so you could feel good about driving an SUV.....

When there is NO need for bio-diesel AT ALL

THA SKY'S A FALLIN
THA SKY'S A FALLIN


:whatever:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #488966 - 10/17/10 09:20 PM (10 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Either way, is the legislature so bad?  If global warming does turn out to be false is the change related to coming to the false conclusion so bad?




Yea, when the new legislation puts sever restrictions on how developing countries can use fossil fuels....





Right there :flowstone:

you're basically saying that you'd rather have developing countries allowed free reign on emissions than have any sort of regulation that protects the wellbeing of our planet




:rolleyes:

I love how you think that the opposite of severe = none :facepalm:

When legislation makes farmers grow corn for bio-diesel instead of food for people. Guess what, the price of food goes up. Paying a bit more for food is not an issue for you and I, but it is for people in Haiti/Africa.

We legislated higher food prices so you could feel good about driving an SUV.....

When there is NO need for bio-diesel AT ALL

THA SKY'S A FALLIN
THA SKY'S A FALLIN


:whatever:



You make your argument out to be even dumber when you fail to recognize the need to end dependence on foreign oil.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #488972 - 10/17/10 09:32 PM (10 years, 16 days ago)

He makes his argument even dumber by being incapable of explaining a point without condescending graemlins. What is this, third grade?

Quote:

niteowl said:

We legislated higher food prices so you could feel good about driving an SUV.....





Corn for Bio-diesel has NOTHING to do with CO2 emissions, the fact that you're claiming it's related just further strengthens my argument that you're completely uneducated in this subject. there are literally thousands of studies that show that corn ethanol isn't going to reduce carbon emissions, it was strictly to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. That said, I'm still opposed for the humanitarian issues you outlined in your post


Quote:

niteowl said:

THA SKY'S A FALLIN
THA SKY'S A FALLIN


:whatever:




Your lack of maturity completely astounds me. aren't you at least slightly ashamed at your incapacity to have a rational, mature discussion without resorting to personal attacks, playground insults/chants and retarded graemlins?  If you hadn't frequently mentioned being in your late 40's on here I would seriously be contemplating and investigation into whether or not you're an underage user needing a ban. Your behavior is more becoming of a middle school recess argument than an informed discussion between several educated individuals. It's really pretty shameful


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #489013 - 10/17/10 10:55 PM (10 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Your lack of maturity completely astounds me. aren't you at least slightly ashamed at your incapacity to have a rational, mature discussion without resorting to personal attacks




Ok, lets start at the begining of this thread.

I posted information pointing to corruption in the IPCC. Someone agreed with me and he first thing you said was....

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Don't take this the wrong way, because I like you and respect you as a person, but the fact that you're referencing a 10 year trend in this debate shows that you clearly don't have a firm enough grasp on the concept to really be making any sort of a statement on the subject.




You were the fist one to insult someones intelligence mate, not me.

I challenged your stance on CO2 being the cause of global warming by correlation only.

And your eloquent reply.....

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Quite frankly, if you do your research and still can confidently say that it's bullshit, then clearly the only reason you're able to state such a deluded point is because you're not capable of comprehending the mechanism by which it happens....


also, calling us "global warming nuts" and saying it's bullshit science is the sort of Ad hominem personal attack that just makes you look ignorant and immature.  If you can't refrain from those sorts of comments I'll just have to assume you're not mature enough to debate this intelligently and I'll assume that even attempting to explain my point is a waste of my time.

Although to be perfectly honest it's pretty clear that you've never set foot inside a science classroom of any level higher than high-school, so I find it a bit comedic that you're trying to assert any sort of intellectual might to the conversation in calling other people's research "bullshit."





More insults.

Don't get your panties in a wad when someone calls you a tard
when you were the first to start insulting peoples intelligence.

The bottom line is that the CO2 we put out is ~ 0.5% of the total CO2 added naturally to the planet. Not enough to be too concerned about really, since CO2 is a MINOR greenhouse gas.

Water counts for 90-95% of the greenhouse effect. CO2 around 3-4% and our input only adds .5% to the total greenhouse gasses put in the planet.

Everyone is getting all bent outta shape over a ~0.5% effect we may/may not have on the planet.

It is beyond retarded.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #489118 - 10/18/10 06:32 AM (10 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:





:laugh2: @ Pascals Wager


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #489182 - 10/18/10 04:06 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)

niteowl do you know what "positive feedback" is?  Look it up and it should help you comprehend this topic.  and you have failed to address the fact that we are releasing huge amounts of greenhouse gases besides CO2.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: SmOakland]
    #489188 - 10/18/10 04:33 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)

Yea, I understand about "positive and negative feedback' and our effect on that system is minimal as well. You forget that there are natural forces on the planet that already add these greenhouse gasses to the planet at a much higher rate than we do

Everyone is severely underestimating the planets ability to cope with these naturally occurring chemicals. All the doomsday scenarios put forth by the Global Warming Fearmongers are not supported by computer models. They are just scare tactics.

Quote:

Global warming alarmists have claimed that increases in the trace gas CO2 will cause runaway global warming, based on outputs from mathematical climate models running in super-computers. Their contention is that a doubling of CO2 concentration will raise global temperatures from 3 to 5 degrees Centigrade.

However, sensors aboard the ERB satellite (released into orbit by astronaut Sally Ride from the Space Shuttle) observed energy emissions from the upper atmosphere that were 7 times the expected (model) values during the warm years of 1989 to 2000.

That is evidence that the atmosphere cannot contain excess heat. The re-radiation of heat into outer space is termed a “negative feedback” that mitigates climate change. The new calculations indicate that a doubling of CO2 concentration will increase global temperatures by only 0.3 degrees C, an effect so small as to be swamped by normal climate variation (and thus be undetectable, more or less).




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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #489244 - 10/18/10 09:40 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)

I agree with some of what you are saying.  Don't confuse scientific evidence of anthropogenic global warming with crazy doomsday scenarios.  They are very different claims made by very different people with different agendas.  They need to be addressed separately and not confounded with each other.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: DieCommie]
    #489250 - 10/18/10 09:56 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)

The scientific evidence says that the CO2 we put out does LITTLE to warm the climate. Our influence is primarily seen in local areas. The Big Urban City will be warmer than the surrounding countryside.

That's about as far as it goes.

The claims that the CO2 we produce are going to cause global warming so severe that the ocean could rise ~20ft in 100 years is absolute rubbish. Even if we doubled the current C02 emissions we still would only have a negligible effect on global weather.

Any global warming that's happening is simply a part of Earths natural cycle.

So the whole 'Humans are Causing Global Warming' thing = A bunch of hot air, started by politicians, fanned by the sheep that buy into their bullshit and broadcast in the media for ratings.

:shitstorm:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #503314 - 12/06/10 01:13 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Here are some more facts disputing the 'Man-made Global Warming Hoax'

Quote:


Temperatures:
- Global surface temperatures have increased only about 0.6°C in the last 100 years. (IPCC)
- Global temperature has averaged only 57°F in the last 100 years. (NOAA)
- The warmest year in the United States was 1934. (NASA)

Sea Level Rise:
- Global mean sea level has risen only about 6 inches in the last 100 years. (Based on tidal gauge data) (IPCC)
- Global mean sea level rise is in the range of 1.0 to 2.0 mm/yr. (Based on tidal gauge data) (IPCC)
- No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected. (IPCC)
- 20 feet of sea level rise would take 3048-6096 years. (Based on tidal gauge data) (IPCC)
- Sea level has only been monitored by satellite altimetry since 1992 with an uncertainty of 3-4 mm. (University of Colorado)

Carbon Dioxide:
- Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is a minor greenhouse gas.
- Carbon Dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere have risen by about 30% (280-370 ppmv) over the past 100 years. (IPCC)
- Ice core records show Carbon Dioxide (CO2) levels lag behind Temperature changes by 600-1000 years. (Source) (Source)
- Carbon Dioxide (CO2) did not end the last Ice Age. (Source)
- Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is only about 0.038% of the atmosphere. (NASA)
- Carbon Dioxide accounts for about 4.2-8.4% of the greenhouse effect. (Source)
- Humans can only claim responsibility for about 3.4% of carbon dioxide emitted to the atmosphere annually. (Source)
- Water Vapor + Clouds account for about 90-95% of the greenhouse effect. (Source) (NASA)
- U.S. Carbon Emissions Fell 1.3% in 2006 (Source)

"Consensus":
- Anthropogenic ("Man-Made") Global Warming is an unproven Theory (hypothesis).
- There is no 'Consensus' that Global Warming is"Man-Made". (Source)
- There is no 'Consensus' that Global Warming will cause Catastrophic Climate Change. (Source)
- Science is not determined by 'Consensus' but by the Scientific Method.

Ecology:
- U.S. Forest land area increased from 747 million acres in 1997 to 749 in 2002. (U.S. Forest Service)
- Since the 1950s, timber growth has consistently exceeded harvest. (U.S. Forest Service) 




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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #503352 - 12/06/10 09:54 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

RIIIIGGGHHHTTT.

You copy pasta from a site called "Globalwarmingscaretactics.com" and expect us to consider them legitimate scientific claims? Even the "sources" they cite are bullshit. Junkscience.com? No thank you, I'll discuss REAL science. :rolleyes:

Go to www.OMFGGLOBALWARMINGISREAL!!!!!!11.COM and read around. :lol: of course you won't, because any website with that retarded of a name obviously is way too biased to be considered legitimate.

about 3/4 of the shit on your retarded little list is completely erroneous but I'm not even going to waste time rebuking it. You have fun with your "beliefs," turning science into a religion.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #503365 - 12/06/10 11:46 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

:rofl:

is my opinion on this topic.

I'm not even going to try to argue this one.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #503425 - 12/06/10 06:02 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

wow you're still going on about this?  :twobooks:


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #503506 - 12/06/10 09:07 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Here are some more facts disputing the 'Man-made Global Warming Hoax'

Quote:


Temperatures:
- Global surface temperatures have increased only about 0.6°C in the last 100 years. (IPCC)
- Global temperature has averaged only 57°F in the last 100 years. (NOAA)
- The warmest year in the United States was 1934. (NASA)

Sea Level Rise:
- Global mean sea level has risen only about 6 inches in the last 100 years. (Based on tidal gauge data) (IPCC)
- Global mean sea level rise is in the range of 1.0 to 2.0 mm/yr. (Based on tidal gauge data) (IPCC)
- No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected. (IPCC)
- 20 feet of sea level rise would take 3048-6096 years. (Based on tidal gauge data) (IPCC)
- Sea level has only been monitored by satellite altimetry since 1992 with an uncertainty of 3-4 mm. (University of Colorado)

Carbon Dioxide:
- Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is a minor greenhouse gas.
- Carbon Dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere have risen by about 30% (280-370 ppmv) over the past 100 years. (IPCC)
- Ice core records show Carbon Dioxide (CO2) levels lag behind Temperature changes by 600-1000 years. (Source) (Source)
- Carbon Dioxide (CO2) did not end the last Ice Age. (Source)
- Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is only about 0.038% of the atmosphere. (NASA)
- Carbon Dioxide accounts for about 4.2-8.4% of the greenhouse effect. (Source)
- Humans can only claim responsibility for about 3.4% of carbon dioxide emitted to the atmosphere annually. (Source)
- Water Vapor + Clouds account for about 90-95% of the greenhouse effect. (Source) (NASA)
- U.S. Carbon Emissions Fell 1.3% in 2006 (Source)

"Consensus":
- Anthropogenic ("Man-Made") Global Warming is an unproven Theory (hypothesis).
- There is no 'Consensus' that Global Warming is"Man-Made". (Source)
- There is no 'Consensus' that Global Warming will cause Catastrophic Climate Change. (Source)
- Science is not determined by 'Consensus' but by the Scientific Method.

Ecology:
- U.S. Forest land area increased from 747 million acres in 1997 to 749 in 2002. (U.S. Forest Service)
- Since the 1950s, timber growth has consistently exceeded harvest. (U.S. Forest Service) 







Also did you bother clicking any of these sources?  For instance when it claims 1934 to be the hottest year.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.D.txt

Unless I'm completely misinterpreting the data, 1998 is hotter.  1934 was a hot year in the United States, but still ranks 47th globally, which is more important when talking global climate change.

In fact, globally the top 10 hottest years on record have all occurred since 1998. And 2010 is predicated to take the place of one of the current place holders.



--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


Edited by THEBats (12/06/10 09:17 PM)


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: THEBats]
    #503512 - 12/06/10 09:22 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

let me inject some wisdom here, if i may.  Global warming is the biggest scam ever.  my ice cream aint meltin any faster now than it did 10 years ago!  :kingcrankey:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #503521 - 12/06/10 09:33 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
let me inject some wisdom here, if i may.  Global warming is the biggest scam ever.  my ice cream aint meltin any faster now than it did 10 years ago!  :kingcrankey:




They talk about it all the time.  What else could global weather scientists talk about?  One of the top 2 or 3 largest databases in the world is about weather.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Don King]
    #505057 - 12/12/10 08:16 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

You need to understand that 100 years is not any significant amount of time in terms of geological history.  You would not be able to detect any changes in only 100 years if it were not for humans causing said changes.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: SmOakland]
    #505067 - 12/12/10 09:06 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Funny that we have only been taking accurate readings for oh lets see....100 years

We have known about the planets warming for sometime now.
Its just the politicians who are trying to pin the blame on us
so that they can create a new tax for us to pay.

NONE of the predictions made by the ICCP have come to pass.

(and the ICCP is the only organization pushing for the HBGWT)

Read up on how that organization was made and who made it
and you will understand why I distrust any information they put out

It's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors :shrug:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505071 - 12/12/10 09:36 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Who needs science to tell you that humans are too fucked up and selfish to care about their life being good for anyone for more then a minute, anyway?


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
    #505074 - 12/12/10 09:47 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Science will tell you that this warming trend started WAY before the industrial age.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505078 - 12/12/10 10:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Who cares? "Let me see, maybe I can conceive something better then the next thing to help us forget how to be humane!" seems to be the more accessed route on this planet.


So again, I must ask, who cares?

This is world is doomed to have mutant human sub-strains gallivanting around forever.

And all most everybody cares about is arguing about how to make it last longer? Horrifying.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #505080 - 12/12/10 10:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
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I don't mind, I think they're crazy
Running everywhere at such a speed
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
    #505082 - 12/12/10 10:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Whoa dude you either need to seek therapy or simply :cruelworld:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505085 - 12/12/10 10:14 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Whoa dude you either need to seek therapy or simply :cruelworld:



Me??


--------------------
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I don't mind, I think they're crazy
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
    #505089 - 12/12/10 10:41 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

lol, no, check the reply too mate :tongue2:

Quote:

eNtranceAsexit said:
Who cares? "Let me see, maybe I can conceive something better then the next thing to help us forget how to be humane!" seems to be the more accessed route on this planet.


So again, I must ask, who cares?

This is world is doomed to have mutant human sub-strains gallivanting around forever.

And all most everybody cares about is arguing about how to make it last longer? Horrifying.




Quote:

niteowl said:
Whoa dude you either need to seek therapy or simply :cruelworld:




--------------------
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OfflineeNtranceAsexit
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505095 - 12/12/10 11:06 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Hyuck, mate! You take everything too seriously... I mean, you aren't concerned with me, so don't make-believe now. I am just stating that whether or not your opinions matter (which they generally don't but lets just go along with the previous logic) you still only have that pejorative subject to deflate and eschew your own (and obvious) personal grievances.

You just can't lie to yourself... so you keep trying to make-believe through... well, other opinions you can share and rub hemorrhoids with.


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OfflineChillWillis
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505125 - 12/13/10 12:38 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

WOW

until I browsed through this thread I didn't understand why most of the vets dislike you niteowl.


you specifically search for biased data and analyses to support your argument and then what's worse, you make your own completely whimsical analyses based on what you think is correct even though you clearly don't understand the concepts at play.

plus you don't even put forth your argument in a manner consistent with an open forum debate. instead you choose to simply copy and paste the words of others no matter how ambiguous to your argument, then going on to make further opinionated assumptions about that.


2/3 of the stuff you copied an pasted from that list is taken out of context. the other 1/6 is without source, and the remaining 1/6 is blatantly biased, and probably based on bullshit data collection methods.

I started to go through and disprove your points but then I realized I don't have the time to try to sway the minds of the ignorant.

Here's what we're certain of beyond any doubt:
-Green house gas levels are increasing
-Temperature is increasing
-Sea level is rising
-Due to these changes there will be many unforeseen consequences for natural resources, ecosystems, and societies.

What's uncertain is exactly how much temperature, sea level, ecosystems, and human society will change and at what rate they will occur.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: ChillWillis]
    #505137 - 12/13/10 01:57 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Once again you fail at comprehension skills

Quote:

Here's what we're certain of beyond any doubt:
-Green house gas levels are increasing
-Temperature is increasing
-Sea level is rising
-Due to these changes there will be many unforeseen consequences for natural resources, ecosystems, and societies.




I never disagreed with any of that mate...

just the opinion that WE are causing these changes

The planet started this trend WELL before we started burning coal/oil.

Look in to the Organization that's pushing the human based GWT

Follow the money's all I'm saying :shrug:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505138 - 12/13/10 02:03 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

You're the last person to be giving advice on comprehension skills.


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Sir Smokes A-Lot]
    #505143 - 12/13/10 03:01 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Niteowl, why don't you post that video in you global warming thread on Shroomery?

I would but my iPhone isn't letting me.

That video explains how every aspect of global warming isn't true.

Quote:

Sir Smokes A-Lot said:
Click here and watch the first video. It covers everything you need to know

:thumbup:



The first video in my link explains why we're being lied to about global warming.

I highly recomend everyone watch it (after, of course, understanding that global warming is a fraud)

If no one watches these videos then we will continue going in circles and I will continue :lol:


--------------------
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I don't mind, I think they're crazy
Running everywhere at such a speed
Till they find, there's no need"
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OfflineChillWillis
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505217 - 12/13/10 12:20 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

1.) this is my second post in this thread, so I don't know where you're getting the 'fail once again' from.

2.) if your point is simply that humans aren't the main cause of global warming then why do you keep quoting sources that argue that global climate change isn't occurring?

3.) it would only cost $28 billion dollars to protect every terrestrial biodiversity hotspot on the Earth - that is chump change. we could literally end the drug war and save 40% of the planet's species with the profits. so drop your little conspiracy theory about trying to steal our money.

4.) the only thing you're correct about is that the Earth does exhibit natural global climate changes over long periods of time, these are the result of a combination of things like Milankovitch cycles (affecting the orbit and tilt of the earth), changes in solar radiation, ocean currents, and changes in the chemistry in our atmosphere. these things all occur slowly, generally over the course of about 50,000 years.

we have VERY strong evidence that the recent acceleration in global climate change is a direct result of excess CO2 molecules in our atmosphere as a direct result of human combustion of organic molecules.

it's a fact that CO2 is very very heat retentive in comparison to other molecules found in the atmosphere.
it's a fact that burning anything, wood, fossil fuels, anything at all releases CO2.
it's a fact that between 1958 and 2004 abundance of CO2 in the atmosphere rose 36%. NOAA
it's a fact that humans have been burning a shit load of stuff daily since the 1950's, this releases CO2 - causing infrared rays to become trapped within our atmosphere heating it up.

the correlation between CO2 increase and temperature increase is very significant. isn't it funny that CO2 and temperature both have risen at the same rate at the same time?

funny how CO2 hasn't been this high in over 400,000 years but all the sudden after humans started burning fossil fuels abundance of CO2 EXPONENTIALLY increases above any previous naturally occurring levels?

natrual patterns in CO2 abundance take about 50,000 years to complete a cycle. the sharpest rise in CO2 in the past 400,000 years took place over the course of 10,000 years, CO2 levels started at ~190 PPM and rose to ~290 PPM.
in the last ~1,000 years CO2 has come from 280 PPM to 360 PPM, 36% of which occurred in the last 46 years.





nah couldn't be our fault.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: ChillWillis]
    #505247 - 12/13/10 01:38 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

we have VERY strong evidence that the recent acceleration in global climate change is a direct result of excess CO2 molecules in our atmosphere as a direct result of human combustion of organic molecules.




Bullshit.

It takes anywhere from 500-800 years for any extra CO2 to contribute any warming effect.

Quote:

it's a fact that CO2 is very very heat retentive in comparison to other molecules found in the atmosphere.




:picard:

CO2 is one of the weakest green house gasses there is

H20 (water vapor) being the strongest green house gas we have and is responsible for 85-90% of the green house effect

A lil extra CO2 is nothing to worry about.


--------------------
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505249 - 12/13/10 01:47 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:


Quote:

it's a fact that CO2 is very very heat retentive in comparison to other molecules found in the atmosphere.




:picard:

CO2 is one of the weakest green house gasses there is

H20 (water vapor) being the strongest green house gas we have and is responsible for 85-90% of the green house effect

A lil extra CO2 is nothing to worry about.




Yes H2O is a significant greenhouse gas and it's a good thing, because otherwise the incident radiation from the sun would simply bounce back into space and we'd be sunbathing at a balmy 200+ degrees F in the sun and about -230 degrees in the shade. However, H2O in our atmosphere cycles. Excess water vapor input simply condenses and returns smoothly to terrestrial and oceanic ecosystems in a matter of days. CO2 on the other hand stays in the atmosphere for thousands of years at a time, which makes excess inputs obviously more important and critical.

Something else to consider, that although H2O greenhouse contributions are about 40%-70% of the total greenhouse effect (compared with about 10%-25% for CO2), there is about 3000% more water in our atmosphere than CO2.  So if something is only three-one hundredths of a percent as abundant, but is only about 25% as potent, tell me just how important it must be.  I would hope you're able to understand how important that distinction is; water contributes roughly 4x more greenhouse effect as CO2, but is over 300x more abundant. So PLEASE, don't go around saying water is a more potent greenhouse gas, because mol for mol that's simply a lie.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #505252 - 12/13/10 01:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

You still don't get that any CO2 we add today won't warm the planet for another 500-800 years :imslow:

Even if we have been adding CO2 at a rate 10x higher
it still would take 500-800 years for us to notice it, not 50.

It's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors guys.
They WANT you to believe this warming trend is our fault
(even though this warming trend started WELL before the industrial age)
so you will feel guilty, and allow them to pass a carbon tax.


--------------------
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like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505254 - 12/13/10 02:07 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

And what evidence do you have that it would take 800 years? It's not like CO2 only reflects heat when it feels like it. It doesn't just sit around drinking beer for a couple hundred years and then finally go "oh, I guess it's time to fuck up this planet, let's do it!" The instant CO2 is released into the atmosphere it starts absorbing and re-radiating infrared heat, it has intrinsic chemical properties that don't function on a delay timer.

And yes the warming trend started a while ago, but (as I've stated in this thread multiple times already) it's the RAPIDITY of the change that is concerning. Never in the known history of this planet has the temperature changed at such an alarming rate.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #505265 - 12/13/10 02:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

You just like pulling shit right out of your ass don't ya.

Every climate model shows temperature rising 5-8 hundred years behind CO2 rises.

I haven't the time to show them to you again, you'll just claim the source is bullshit. But if you do just a lil research and stay away from any by the biased IPCC then you will see that what I said is true.

I know that you hate to see me copy and paste facts to you but here....

Quote:

Over the last half million years, our climate has experienced long ice ages regularly punctuated by brief warm periods called interglacials. Atmospheric carbon dioxide closely matches the cycle, increasing by around 80 to 100 parts per million as Antarctic temperatures warm up to 10°C. However, when you look closer, CO2 actually lags temperature by around 1000 years.





Do you just read IPCC reports and Al Gore snippets and masturbate to them?


--------------------
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-Terence McKenna-


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OfflineChillWillis
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505268 - 12/13/10 02:22 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

we have VERY strong evidence that the recent acceleration in global climate change is a direct result of excess CO2 molecules in our atmosphere as a direct result of human combustion of organic molecules.




Bullshit.

It takes anywhere from 500-800 years for any extra CO2 to contribute any warming effect.




oh really because that's not what the graph right above shows. are you really going to site NOAA for your argument but dismiss the same organization when I present it?

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

it's a fact that CO2 is very very heat retentive in comparison to other molecules found in the atmosphere.




:picard:

CO2 is one of the weakest green house gasses there is

H20 (water vapor) being the strongest green house gas we have and is responsible for 85-90% of the green house effect

A lil extra CO2 is nothing to worry about.




water vapor is a greenhouse gas and has a higher capacity for heat than CO2 but it isn't considered the primary cause of the green house effect even though it does contribute to warming, here's why:

the warmer our atmosphere is the more water vapor it can hold, when more water vapor is up there, it gets warmer allowing yet more water vapor to accumulate.  this is a positive feedback loop.

however, when water vapor gets to a certain point it condenses into clouds which reflect solar radiation.

nobody knows the interrelationship between water vapor and temperature because of this feedback loop, we don't know what the net absorption of heat by water vapor is.


also since the 50's the % of water vapor in the atmosphere has been on the decline, so tell me how you'd draw a line of best fit through that data and the temperature data.

The radiative effect of absorption by water vapour is roughly proportional to the logarithm of its concentration, so it is the fractional change in water vapour concentration, not the absolute change, that governs its strength as a feedback mechanism. Calculations with GCMs suggest that water vapour remains at an approximately constant fraction of its saturated value (close to unchanged relative humidity (RH)) under global-scale warming (see Section 8.6.3.1). Under such a response, for uniform warming, the largest fractional change in water vapour, and thus the largest contribution to the feedback, occurs in the upper troposphere.


--------------------

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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505273 - 12/13/10 02:31 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
But if you do just a lil research






I wish you could understand how comedic that comment is. I graduate with a Masters Degree literally TOMORROW.

You're not talking to an uneducated conspiracy nut, my friend.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #505274 - 12/13/10 02:36 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
But if you do just a lil research






I wish you could understand how comedic that comment is. I graduate with a Masters Degree literally TOMORROW.

You're not talking to an uneducated conspiracy nut, my friend.




sweeeet!  congrats!  where's the party?!?!


--------------------





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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #505282 - 12/13/10 03:06 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
But if you do just a lil research






I wish you could understand how comedic that comment is. I graduate with a Masters Degree literally TOMORROW.




:laugh:

And you still buy into the human based global warming hoax :laugh2:

Yea, you did waste your education mate.


--------------------
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-Terence McKenna-


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505284 - 12/13/10 03:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Your hubris is astounding. You think the educated people who do front-line research are wrong, and your uneducated ass sitting at home on the computer is the most brilliant person alive. There's no point in even trying with you. :smirk:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #505313 - 12/13/10 05:07 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Had "An Inconvenient Truth' .... the propaganda 'documentary' that started the whole human based global warming theory. Been done by a group of scientists, instead of a politician with an agenda, I might buy into it.

But there is as much evidence for our effect being minimal at best, as there is for the HBGWT

This is akin to trying to prove that God exist.....its bordering on retarded now.

Does earth go through warm/cold periods....yes

Have humans caused the recent warming trend......no

Does human activity cause climate change on a regional/local area...of course, plenty of evidence for that.

Is humans activity going to alter the climate so severely that we cause our own extinction ..... doubtful

No one knows, nor can prove, the HBGWT

putting this clearly in the realm of proving/disproving the existence of 'God'

We won't truly know what effect we have actually had on the global climate until we have MANY more hundreds of years of evidence.

Right now its just a pissing match.


--------------------
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in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #505331 - 12/13/10 06:23 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Had "An Inconvenient Truth' .... the propaganda 'documentary' that started the whole human based global warming theory. Been done by a group of scientists, instead of a politician with an agenda, I might buy into it.

But there is as much evidence for our effect being minimal at best, as there is for the HBGWT

This is akin to trying to prove that God exist.....its bordering on retarded now.

Does earth go through warm/cold periods....yes

Have humans caused the recent warming trend......no

Does human activity cause climate change on a regional/local area...of course, plenty of evidence for that.

Is humans activity going to alter the climate so severely that we cause our own extinction ..... doubtful

No one knows, nor can prove, the HBGWT

putting this clearly in the realm of proving/disproving the existence of 'God'

We won't truly know what effect we have actually had on the global climate until we have MANY more hundreds of years of evidence.

Right now its just a pissing match.




You do know there's more data and information than an inconvenient truth right?  You basically just said had the movie been made by scientists you would buy into it, without any of the actual data changing.  You quote stats from an overtly anti-global warming site and then make a comment such as that.  :flowstone:

Also I don't think any of of us are arguing that the current warming trend is solely human based, merely that we contribute negatively.

Ultimately there is very few negatives to abandoning fossil fuels, regardless of global warming. The conclusion of renewable resources is still, obviously the intelligent one to make. 

Also outside the realm of global warming there's obviously other ecological problems our release of CO2 and other gases have.  We don't need catastrophic global warming to reach the same conclusions of change.  Why do you assume the companies who take advantage of this by selling carbon offsets ect aren't exclusive from everyone who believes in global warming? 

You also have problems with opinions, calling people ignorant rather than debate them outright. Which is laughable, as previously demonstrated, when you've been disproven on multiple points, and even had linked to sites that provided incorrect figures on temperature data.

Also it's funny how you mention no one can prove this either way, yet you call those who believe in it ignorant and posted this thread professing your absolute certainty in it's falsity.

:twobooks:










:randy:


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


Edited by THEBats (12/13/10 06:23 PM)


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #505340 - 12/13/10 06:42 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Your hubris is astounding.




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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: eNtranceAsexit] * 1
    #505365 - 12/13/10 07:38 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Holy shit, how long have you guys been letting him troll you? At this point I would hope that both parties can probably agree that you're not going to change anyone's minds.

This is absurd.


--------------------
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The first thing on my mind,
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And a blunt that's all mine."-PUTS


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Far Stox]
    #505374 - 12/13/10 07:53 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

It's funny, though.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
    #505426 - 12/13/10 09:47 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah now I know what the saying arguing with a wall means :crazy2:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: jkell]
    #505428 - 12/13/10 09:49 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

No you don't, walls are considerably more open minded than niteowl


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #505429 - 12/13/10 09:53 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
No you don't, walls are considerably more open minded than niteowl



:rofl:


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: jkell]
    #505472 - 12/13/10 11:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I am sure niteowl is just confusing one subject with another somewhere up in the desk and he is just trying to figure out what juxtaposition was made wherein a vain hope that something exists outside himself actually exists. Of course.


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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
    #505516 - 12/14/10 03:16 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

eNtranceAsexit said:
It's funny, though.




:yesnod:


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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OfflineChillWillis
old school fool


Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 2,213
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #505787 - 12/15/10 01:36 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

agreed. the old ignorant fuck :shakefist:


--------------------

It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom.


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Invisiblepsyberpunk
Lunatic


Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 533
Loc: Behind a Pipe
Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: ChillWillis]
    #505790 - 12/15/10 01:41 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

The problem is we can't trust anyone anymore. Not on either side of the debate. Not scientists. Not politicians. Not environmentalists. Not corporations. That's why this argument even exists, because we have no real foundation for any "true" knowledge in this culture. It's something anyone can latch on to for their own agenda, whether the phenomenon is true or not. As the general public, we have no real way of knowing. All information is handed down from on high.


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OfflineFar Stox
Higher Education


Registered: 09/19/10
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Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: psyberpunk]
    #505823 - 12/15/10 05:41 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psyberpunk said:
The problem is we can't trust anyone anymore. Not on either side of the debate. Not scientists. Not politicians. Not environmentalists. Not corporations. That's why this argument even exists, because we have no real foundation for any "true" knowledge in this culture. It's something anyone can latch on to for their own agenda, whether the phenomenon is true or not. As the general public, we have no real way of knowing. All information is handed down from on high.



I really hate to agree with you on this, not because I have anything against you, but because I feel like this is painfully true. If anything I've learned in political science classes, it's that the Elitist Theory is probably the most accurate judgement of the way our government and society operate. Money controls everything.


--------------------
"When I awaken,
The first thing on my mind,
A little bit of cornflakes,
And a blunt that's all mine."-PUTS


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Invisiblepsyberpunk
Lunatic


Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 533
Loc: Behind a Pipe
Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Far Stox]
    #505831 - 12/15/10 06:33 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, the Elite Theory would be the most accurate name for it in the ivory tower.


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OfflineSir Smokes A-Lot
friend of the aliens
Male


Registered: 09/17/10
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Loc: Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: Far Stox]
    #506042 - 12/16/10 07:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Far Stox said:
If anything I've learned in political science classes, it's that the Elitist Theory is probably the most accurate judgement of the way our government and society operate. Money controls everything.



Exactly.

Just imagine how much power the banks who print our money and loan it to countires with interest have...


--------------------
"Everybody seems to think I'm lazy
I don't mind, I think they're crazy
Running everywhere at such a speed
Till they find, there's no need"
Beatles song


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OfflineKERAN

Registered: 04/23/09
Posts: 25
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
    #506048 - 12/16/10 07:42 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I find it quite hypocritical of you guys all on your high horse, claiming niteowl's ignorance and childish actions; then after you feel like you've won you all come in with a barrage of childish insults. Besides, a lot of what he was saying made sense, and you did ignore a lot of it, just as he ignored you. The whole thing was quite silly. The caps have to melt one day, I don't think the fact that humans may be accelerating that meltage is going to be the end of us.


Quote:

eNtranceAsexit said:
I am sure niteowl is just confusing one subject with another somewhere up in the desk and he is just trying to figure out what juxtaposition was made wherein a vain hope that something exists outside himself actually exists. Of course.




Stoned, yeah?


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OfflineeNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie


Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 6 months, 1 day
Re: Another example of why I don't believe the Global Warming Hoax [Re: KERAN]
    #506052 - 12/16/10 08:11 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

blah blah... I find it useless to argue period. Just niteowl is concerned with trying to tell a bunch of blasted stoners to do something about.. well, something they can't do anything about.

He may be right, but it's useless cause these peeps won't get anything together. And you know what? Neither will niteowl. I could almost guarantee it.

What nitey needs to do is focus more on things that can be changed. Like with a gun... or you know... become president and "strive" to be some legislative genius, or something. Setting people straight is great but not when you're being a douche like the people you are trying to set straight. That's why I said to just leave well enough grovelling alone.

His hubris is pretty legit though.... I can't believe how many times I read the same "your reading comprehension is lacking" and "you like pulling that out of your ass" lines in this thread. :lol:

oh and I think we are all stoned here, kthx.


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