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InvisibleTriptonic
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I'm all for cannabis use. * 1
    #428521 - 06/04/10 02:55 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

But I do find it weird when someone claims that there are no ill health effects. I mean you are inhaling smoke are you not? There has to be something bad about it doesnt there? Please explain.


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OfflinePicklez
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: Triptonic]
    #428525 - 06/04/10 03:07 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

there are other methods of use.. but I agree with you. Anyone who smokes on a regular basis is at least putting themselves at a greater chance for lung cancer than a non smoker


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InvisibleTriptonic
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: Picklez]
    #428527 - 06/04/10 03:09 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I'm talking about just like straight up bong rips and joints and blunts and bowls.


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InvisibleT-Rex
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: Triptonic]
    #428535 - 06/04/10 04:15 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

I have heard that smoking weed is much better for you (or not as harmful) than tobacco, though I have nothing to back this up on.


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: T-Rex]
    #428536 - 06/04/10 04:20 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

No this is accurate I believe. Donald Tashkin, who did a study on the health effects of Marijuana, hypothesized that he would find a positive correlation between smoking pot and developing cancer, and I quote:
Quote:

"What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect."




http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html

By that logic alone, I would say it is safer to inhale marijuana smoke than it is to inhale tobacco smoke.

Yes, you are inhaling smoke. Yes, you're better off not doing it, however the question is to what extent is it bad? I mean, I smoke daily and I do 10km runs 3-4 times a week. :shrug: There is nothing wrong with my body.


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InvisibleT-Rex
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: TomCollins]
    #428539 - 06/04/10 04:41 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

That's fucking amazing man, all these years I have been semi paranoid that I would develop some kind of cancer, and I'm not saying I won't. But at least I know it wont be due to bud hahaha.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: Triptonic]
    #428552 - 06/04/10 07:41 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Smoke is never a good thing. But cannabis does have some interesting properties and has been shown to be anti-carcinogenic, and a fantastic lung cleaner....






Cannabis is the best natural expectorant to clear the human lungs of smog, dust and the phlegm associated with tobacco use. Marijuana smoke effectively dilates the airways of the lungs, the bronchi, opening them to allow more oxygen into the lungs. It is also the best natural dilator of the tiny airways of the lungs, the bronchial tubes - making cannabis the best overall bronchial dilator for 80% of the population (the remaining 20% sometimes show minor negative reactions) Statistical evidence - showing up consistently as anomalies in matched populations - indicates that people who smoke tobacco cigarettes are usually better off and will live longer if they smoke cannabis moderately, too. 

UCLA Tashkin studies, 1969-97; U.S. Costa Rican,1980-82; Jamaican studies 1969-74, 76.)






------------------------------------------------





One in three Americans will be afflicted with cancer, we are told by the government (as if it’s our immutable fate and somehow acceptable). Cancer is the second-leading cause of death in the U.S. and lung cancer the leading killer among cancers.

You’d think it would have been very big news in June 2005 when UCLA medical school professor Donald Tashkin reported that components of marijuana smoke -- although they damage cells in respiratory tissue -- somehow prevent them from becoming malignant. In other words, something in marijuana exerts an anti-cancer effect!

Tashkin has special credibility. He was the lead investigator on studies dating back to the 1970s that identified the components in marijuana smoke that are toxic. It was Tashkin et al. who published photomicrographs showing that marijuana smoke damages cells lining the upper airways. It was the Tashkin lab’s finding that benzpyrene -- a component of tobacco smoke that plays a role in most lung cancers -- is especially prevalent in marijuana smoke. It was Tashkin’s data showing that marijuana smokers are more likely than non-smokers to cough, wheeze, and produce sputum.

Tashkin reviewed his findings in April 2008, at a conference organized by “Patients Out of Time,” a reform group devoted to educating doctors and the public (as opposed to lobbying politicians). Some 30 MDs and nurses got continuing medical education credits for attending the event, which was held at Asilomar, on the Monterey Peninsula.

The National Institute on Drug Abuse, which supported Tashkin’s marijuana-related research over the decades, readily gave him a grant in 2002 to conduct a large, population-based, case-controlled study that would prove definitively that heavy, long-term marijuana use increases the risk of lung and upper-airways cancers.

What Tashkin and his colleagues found, however, disproved their hypothesis. (Tashkin is to marijuana as a cause of lung cancer what Hans Blix was to Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction -- an honest investigator who set out to find something, concluded that it wasn’t there, and reported his results.)

Tashkin’s team interviewed 1,212 cancer patients from the Los Angeles County Cancer Surveillance program, matched for age, gender, and neighborhood with 1,040 cancer-free controls. Marijuana use was measured in “joint years” (number of years smoked times number of joints per day).

It turned out that increased marijuana use did not result in higher rates of lung and pharyngeal cancer, whereas tobacco smokers were at greater risk the more they smoked. Tobacco smokers who also smoked marijuana were at slightly lower risk of getting lung cancer than tobacco-only smokers.

These findings were not deemed worthy of publication in “NIDA Notes.” Tashkin reported them at the 2005 meeting of the International Cannabinoid Research Society. They were published in the October 2006 issue of Cancer Epidemiology Biomarkers & Prevention.

Without a press release from NIDA calling attention to its significance, the assignment editors of America had no idea that “Marijuana Use and the Risk of Lung and Upper Aerodigestive Tract Cancers: Results of a Population-Based Case-Control Study” by Mia Hashibe1, Hal Morgenstern, Yan Cui, Donald P. Tashkin, Zuo-Feng Zhang, Wendy Cozen, Thomas M. Mack and Sander Greenland was a blockbuster story.

I suggested to Eric Bailey of the L.A. Times that he write up Tashkin’s findings -- UCLA provided the local angle if the anti-cancer effect wasn’t enough. Bailey said his editors wouldn’t be interested for some time because he had just filed a marijuana-related piece. The Tashkin scoop is still there for the taking!

Tashkin Defends His Findings

Investigators from New Zealand recently got widespread media attention for a study contradicting Tashkin’s results. “Heavy cannabis users may be at greater risk of chronic lung disease –including cancer– compared to tobacco smokers,” is how BBC News summed up the New Zealanders’ findings.

The very small size of the study –79 smokers took part, 21 of whom smoked cannabis only– was not held against the authors. In fact, the small New Zealand study was given much more coverage by the corporate press than the large UCLA study that preceded it.

The New Zealand study was portrayed as the latest word on this important subject. As if scientific inquiry were some kind of tennis match and the truth just gets truthier with every volley.

Tashkin criticized the New Zealanders’ methodology in his talk at Asilomar: “There’s some cognitive dissonance associated with the interpretation of their findings. I think this has to do with the belief model among the investigators and –I wish they were here to defend themselves– the integrity of the investigators… They actually published another paper in which they mimicked the design that we used for looking at lung function.”

Tashkin spoke from the stage of an airy redwood chapel designed by Julia Morgan. He is pink-cheeked, 70ish, wears wire-rimmed spectacles. “For tobacco they found what you’d expect: a higher risk for lung cancer and a clear dose-response relationship. A 24-fold increase in the people who smoked the most… What about marijuana? If they smoked a small or moderate amount there was no increased risk, in fact slightly less than one. But if they were in the upper third of the group, then their risk was six-fold… A rather surprising finding, and one has to be cautious about interpreting the results because of the very small number of cases -- fourteen— and controls  -- four.”

Tashkin said the New Zealanders employed “statistical sleight of hand.” He deemed it “completely implausible that smokers of only 365 joints of marijuana have a risk for developing lung cancer similar to that of smokers of 7,000 tobacco cigarettes… Their small sample size led to vastly inflated estimates… They had said ‘it’s ideal to do the study in New Zealand because we have a much higher prevalence of marijuana smoking.’ But 88 percent of their controls had never smoked marijuana, whereas 36% of our controls (in Los Angeles) had never smoked marijuana. Why did so few of the controls smoke marijuana? Something fishy about that!”

Strong words for a UCLA School of Medicine professor!

As to the highly promising implication of his own study –that something in marijuana stops damaged cells from becoming malignant— Tashkin noted that an anti-proliferative effect of THC has been observed in cell-culture systems and animal models of brain, breast, prostate, and lung cancer. THC has been shown to promote apoptosis (damaged cells die instead of reproducing) and to counter angiogenesis (the process by which blood vessels are formed —a requirement of tumor growth). Other antioxidants in cannabis may also be involved in countering malignancy, said Tashkin.

COPD

Much of Tashkin’s talk was devoted to Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, another condition prevalent among tobacco smokers. Chronic bronchitis and emphysema are two forms of COPD, which is the fourth-leading cause of death in the United States. Air pollution and tobacco smoke are known culprits. Inhaled pathogens cause an inflammatory response, resulting in diminished lung function. COPD patients have increasing difficulty clearing the airways as they get older.

Tashkin and colleagues at UCLA conducted a major study in which they measured lung function of various cohorts over eight years and found that tobacco-only smokers had an accelerated rate of decline, but marijuana smokers –even if they smoked tobacco as well– experienced the same rate of decline as non-smokers.

“The more tobacco smoked, the greater the rate of decline,” said Tashkin. “In contrast, no matter how much marijuana was smoked, the rate of decline was similar to normal.”

Tashkin concluded that his and other studies “do not support the concept that regular smoking of marijuana leads to COPD.”

Breathe easier, everybody.




http://www.alternet.org/drugs/142271/smoking_marijuana_does_not_cause_lung_cancer/














:stoner:





.


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Offlinevolcomstoner
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: T-Rex]
    #428553 - 06/04/10 07:47 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I've seen studies where THC can actually reverse the effects of brain and lung cancer. I've also seen a study showing cannabis helps prevent certain types of cancer. I'll post links to studies when I find them....  I have asthma and all the years I have smoked weed it hasn't gotten any worse. I have read that cannabis is a bronchodilator and can be used to treat asthma.

Of course I still believe smoking it can damage your lungs but certainly not as much as tobacco. But to me the benefits I gain from it outweigh the risks.... Its honestly the most medicinal drug I have ever used, and it just makes me fucking sick thinking that people go to jail for this shit.


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Vas donc jouer dans le traffic


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: volcomstoner]
    #428571 - 06/04/10 09:49 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

The anti pot people seem to think that smoking is the only way to ingest cannabis.  Of course inhaling a combusted material is bad.  :lol:  that's common sense.  Eat it or vaporize it if ya can't smoke it.  I'd like to see some studies on long term effects of vaporization of cannabis on daily users.  The people that want to debate cannabis being a medicine are just ignorant.  It's probably the most useful plant known to man, was one of the first cultivated plants, and WAS a medicine before it was a recreational drug!


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Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #428577 - 06/04/10 11:46 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
The anti pot people seem to think that smoking is the only way to ingest cannabis.  Of course inhaling a combusted material is bad.  :lol:  that's common sense.  Eat it or vaporize it if ya can't smoke it.  I'd like to see some studies on long term effects of vaporization of cannabis on daily users.  The people that want to debate cannabis being a medicine are just ignorant.  It's probably the most useful plant known to man, was one of the first cultivated plants, and WAS a medicine before it was a recreational drug!




I couldn't agree with that more.


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"To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic."

"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

I am tired of Earth
I am tired of these people


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #428608 - 06/04/10 02:01 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
....




I couldn't agree with that more.




--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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InvisibleTriptonic
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #428710 - 06/04/10 05:02 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
The anti pot people seem to think that smoking is the only way to ingest cannabis.  Of course inhaling a combusted material is bad.  :lol:  that's common sense.  Eat it or vaporize it if ya can't smoke it.  I'd like to see some studies on long term effects of vaporization of cannabis on daily users.  The people that want to debate cannabis being a medicine are just ignorant.  It's probably the most useful plant known to man, was one of the first cultivated plants, and WAS a medicine before it was a recreational drug!



LOL cocaine was a medicine before it was a drug and so was heroin.


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InvisibleFarBeyondDriven
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: Triptonic]
    #428712 - 06/04/10 05:05 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

So are you implying that Cannabis is on the same.."level" as cocaine and heroin when it comes to this discussion?


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InvisibleTriptonic
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: FarBeyondDriven]
    #428715 - 06/04/10 05:09 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

No I'm saying the arguement that it was a "medicine" isnt really a good one.


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InvisibleFarBeyondDriven
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: Triptonic]
    #428717 - 06/04/10 05:12 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Well the fact that people aren't in clinics for it like the people in Methadone Clinics for heroin addicts is a good argument I would say.  And the fact people don't sell all of their belongings like crackheads just to smoke a joint is another one I would say.  I don't care how big of a pothead you are :lol:


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: Triptonic]
    #428878 - 06/04/10 08:49 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Triptonic said:
No I'm saying the arguement that it was a "medicine" isnt really a good one.




well, there's not a world wide societal debate going on regarding the legitimacy of cocaine or heroin as a medicine.  Both of those drugs are already medicines.  cocaine isn't a schedule one drug cause it's used by some anesthesiologists.  Heroin, well, we know that morphine might as well be heroin plus when you break your leg they'll give you an opiate derivative.  So there's kinda more to that argument than what I mentioned above.  People are just dumb though cause they just don't realize that cannabis was EVER a medicine.  ya feel me?


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I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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InvisibleTriptonic
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #428895 - 06/04/10 09:24 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

I will feel ya, but its 20 bux.


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: Triptonic]
    #428897 - 06/04/10 09:33 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

:dancingbacon:  how about some dancing bacon instead?  but like i said i think that studies on people that use a vaporizer daily for a long period of time should be studied somehow to see what kind of long term effects there are purely from the chemicals in cannabis, rather than just the method of ingestion.


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Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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OfflineTrueHerbCrystal
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: Triptonic]
    #428984 - 06/05/10 03:23 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

So true. There are some serious bad effects, but most are long-term....

My friend in HS used to smoke everyday, all day. He got to the point where his lungs were so bad, he was coughing up this black "tar" shit. really nasty. But he smoked A LOT. Always stoned. But after awhile, even the bong hits hurt.

Also, I get really bad short-term memory loss when I smoke, that continues on to the next day. Not smoking increasing my memory like 100x. Its like night and day.

One of the worst is paranoia, thats mostly because I'm afraid the cops are 8right* next to me watching me smoking in the parking lot, while I'm inside my car. Paranoia sucks big time.

Then I heard it causes low sperm count? Anyone here of this? I definitely don't wanna have baby-sex when I'm stoned: that means my stoner sperm would make it to the egg. Those are the ones with bad memory....

Making Memories are Important
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~


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InvisibleFarBeyondDriven
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Re: I'm all for cannabis use. [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #429079 - 06/05/10 01:47 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Can you PLEASE stop signing your name?  Like why?  Seriously dude.  I know you get tired of typing it every time. :wtf:


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