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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Registered: 04/20/08
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so hypothetically
    #283489 - 09/20/09 09:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If you were to be growing in an outdoor shed where the annual temperature can range from -20f to 95f, how would you handle the intake of fresh air without giving your plants frostbite?
This shed will be completely and fully insulated, I just can't figure out a way to get fresh air into the room without freezing the plants to death.
I'm considering doing something absurd like routing fresh air backwards through the air cooled hood so that the air coming in is already heated by the bulb. my only problem is that this isn't really controllable in terms of how hot the incoming air will get....

Picture it kinda like this in terms of the space being divided between veg and flower room



Just looking for someone to throw some ideas out there


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #283519 - 09/20/09 09:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I would suggest something like an air economizer, but something tells me you don't have the 8 grand needed to install one.  But, here's something that may or may not work.  Why not build an ante chamber for your air intake.  Basically build an insulated box around your air intake and let the hot air from your room heat up the box which will help warm up the chilled air coming in from the outside?


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: so hypothetically [Re: coda]
    #283811 - 09/21/09 10:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

that could definitely work.... but when I'm pulling 300cfm of fresh air in I feel it's going to have a hard time getting warm enough before it enters the chamber.
I'm thinking about having a coil of my exhaust ducting inside a box and having all my fresh air pass directly over the coil on it's way it. do you think the radiant heat of a 400W light being run through a metal duct will be sufficient?


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #284015 - 09/21/09 07:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's possible, but i think you run into the same problem of the antechamber idea.  The light can only warm so much air and if the air is significantly colder then the output of your lamp, it may become ineffective.  I would suggest a heater but that might become a bitch to calibrate and I never was much for the idea of leaving a potential fire hazard unchecked in your grow area.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: so hypothetically [Re: coda]
    #284208 - 09/21/09 11:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What about a small heater? Would I still need an antechamber, or do you think it would be sufficient to just have fresh air intake in the room, and a heater running at the same time? I could time them so that during lights off the fan only runs for about 15 minutes every hour or two, and the heater only runs when the temp gets down to say....60 or so


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OfflineKine

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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #284467 - 09/22/09 02:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What about doing like a splitter for the intake... it would probably have to be manually controlled, cause god damned if it wouldnt be 30 deg in the morning and 75 by after noon and back down to 30 by evening.  But what about doing like a Y splitter with a flange to open and close the secondary route.  Have the fresh air come into a chamber where the Y connecter vents off to so the heat (like you said) from the 400 could be used to heat fresh air, and then drawn back into the room... heres a picture cause im sure that sounds like shit....



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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #284480 - 09/22/09 03:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

you don't think moist -20f air hitting your hot bulbs is going to blow them up?


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: so hypothetically [Re: captain.koons]
    #284567 - 09/22/09 10:42 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

well I don't know about the moist part since it's almost never above 40%rh here, but yes, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to figure out. Any ideas?  the air is hitting the bulbs after it's been in the grow space, so -20f is going to cause me some problems long before it gets into the reflector


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OfflineKine

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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #284663 - 09/22/09 02:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

How much empty space do you think you'll have? Get "Pipe heaters" (Best if you find it in the tape form) and run it along legnths of intake tubing.  That way the air has time to get rid of some condensation, and warm up air all before entering the room.

But then you have water in the intake lines... shitty.

I think the best option is to bring air into an ambient place; let it warm up, ect ect; then pump it from there to another room.  Have the fan up high; as hotter air rises.


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Kine]
    #285352 - 09/23/09 09:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

What about a small heater?




Quote:

I would suggest a heater but that might become a bitch to calibrate and I never was much for the idea of leaving a potential fire hazard unchecked in your grow area.




I think the fire hazard thing would bug me, but if you do go this route I'd say put a little cash into the thing and buy a nice model to reduce the risk of a fire.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: so hypothetically [Re: coda]
    #285370 - 09/23/09 09:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

what about some sort of automatic heat tape? They make tape that you wrap around water pipes to prevent them from freezing in the winter, and the tape only functions when it senses that the the temperature is close to freezing. this way the tape would only activate when the temperatures were low enough to cause crop damage.

http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/52-299-heat-tape.aspx

Also, i'm thinking I'm going to have two separate fans to ventilate the two spaces. the veg room will obviously have a fan running continuously to extract the heat from the light, but for the veg room I think I might only run the fan for 15 minutes every two hours or so during lights off to save heat. Do you think this will negatively impact the quality and yield of the harvest?


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OfflineKine

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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #285468 - 09/23/09 11:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Nope.  You dont always need to be venting all the time.  Its good to sometimes let the air just rest for a bit being circulated; thats why you have fans inside is to utilize the air that will be stagnant in the air.  And that tape would work; but i would also suggest using smaller ducting with that; or a good length of it cause it doesnt heat quickly; and you'll want to be sure all that air is being heated...


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Kine]
    #285482 - 09/23/09 11:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Do you think it's safe in terms of fire hazards too? And do you think that some like 2" ducting would work or maybe just regular 4" ducting for the intake with about 6 feet of it coiled around for aways


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OfflineKine

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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #285530 - 09/24/09 12:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

ahh, i think you hit something with the coil idea...  Ever heard of the heatbomb that shroom growers used?  Well, im thinking along the same idea.  Use a large water heater of sorts to warm a cylinder of water.  Wrap the ducting (i'd use 4'' honestly cause you also gotta remember; your wrapping that tape around it; more tape = more money) around it in a coil; that way you have heat on the inside; then wrap the coil exterior in the tape.  Then its just like a intercooler of sorts; but for heating.

As for how to heat the water and such; my guess would be ether a animal water bowl heater (adjustable settings too) or one of the larger (like a 55gal) fish take heater; and maybe use a trashcan for the coil center?

As far as tape as a firehazard; not really.  Unless you TOTALLY hack the wiring (but it'll come pre-wired so you'd be stupid to mess with it) its contained; and really easy to work with.  Its basically just a heat coil between two pieces of heat conductive tape...


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Kine]
    #285576 - 09/24/09 01:27 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think I got lost.... are you telling me to submerse the heating tape in water?


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OfflineKine

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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #285586 - 09/24/09 01:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

im SO bad with words... guess thats why im a drafter eh?

Let me see if this makes more sense for ya...

In the picture; the blue is a trashcan full of water... then the orange is a submerse able heater (animal water tank heater, large aquarium heater; whatever) then the grey is the ducting; but imagine it coiling around the trashcan (I left the lines; but didnt color in the ducting)  So thats wraped tightly laying right ontop of itself around the trashcan.  So the inside of the coil of ducting is touching the trashcan (getting ambient heat from the water) then the outside facing away from the trashcan, wrap in tape (the red).  How much is up to you; i'd wrap as much as possible; but that shit gets expensive.  And its safe if your smart about wiring it up; cause its used for plumbing pipe so it can be around water...



Make any more sence?


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Kine]
    #285895 - 09/24/09 10:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

that does make sense, but I think that's a little too space consuming for the size of this grow area. I'm thinking it's gonna look basically like this;

That part where it says "Heater?" do you think this'll work out okay?
http://www3.dealtime.com/xPO-Patton-PUH680-U

it's on sale near me so it's convenient, but I don't know about it being the best.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #285896 - 09/24/09 10:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I just realized;

What about having that area with the heater just being a box about 4" by 4" by 2 feet long, and having an electric baseboard heater in there so that the air runs lengthwise along it?


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OfflineKine

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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #285897 - 09/24/09 10:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

... I dont like electric heaters.  But thats just me.  Especially if theres a possibility of water condensing around it and such.

Am i getting it right that your planning on drawing in the air from the front side of the shed thats going to be a normal shed part?  Then draw threw the veg, past the sliding door then into the lights out a carbon...

If so.. i do like that idea.  But as i said; i dont like the thought of an electric heater.  While reading about my truck i learned how car heaters work; and i think that'd be something to look into.  My way of thinking how to do it tho is WAY complicated and i dont think would be worth the effort.  Basically its the same idea as yours; but a little more controlable.  I dont know how acurately that heater would work; i'd assume it'll require constant adjusting cause you wouldnt want it getting totally hot in the room; but you'd want to make sure its heating the air sufficently enough.  Nig rig a more accurate thermostat? :shrug:


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OfflineKine

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Re: so hypothetically [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #285898 - 09/24/09 10:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
I just realized;

What about having that area with the heater just being a box about 4" by 4" by 2 feet long, and having an electric baseboard heater in there so that the air runs lengthwise along it?




I like the idea of having the box with the heater mounted in it so the air kind of passes threw it to be heated then continuing down the line...


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Amazon Shop for: Aquarium Heater

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