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InvisibleDataM
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Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble
    #238422 - 06/10/09 09:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I feel as though i should post one of these since some people have expressed interest in an LED grow.

I recently purchased a Homebox S, a Carbon scrubber filter, a vortex VTX400 inline fan...and a 90W LED grow light from growlLED.

I then took my only available seed (of unknown origins, it had been sitting on my desk for over a year...I soaked it in water for 12 hours...then planted in sphagnum peat moss and let it sprout


I then mixed up 5 gallons of a soil mix that contains:
1.75 gallons Sphagnum Peat Moss
1.75 gallons Perlite
.75 gallons of 50/50 Worm Castings/Black Kow
5 Tbsp Blood Meal
10 Tbsp Bone Meal
and a small scoop of polymer water crystals to decrease watering frequency

and transplanted the small seedling to a 12 inch pot filled with this mixture...and left it on 20/4 light schedule without watering for 1 week. When i returned, i found this:


it was 2 inches tall, 3 inches wide at the leaf tips, and working on its 4th node...so i watered and fertilized with a half-strength solution of MG 24-16-8 fertilizer, changed the lighting to 24/0, and left it again for 2 weeks without watering...this time i made a booboo...and didnt raise the light enough, and the plant grew into the light. Now LED's dont produce a lot of extra radiant heat downwards...so it only scorched the very top parts of the top leaves where it was physically in contact with the light...but it looked good:


this time it was 6 inches tall, 12 inches across, and working on it's 10th node, correct me if im wrong but that seems really dense...which is the way i would describe the growth...i cant hardly see the main stem...though it is 1/2 inch thick when i take a closer look. I could see the stipules showing, so i went ahead and switched to 12/12 lighting since i only have about 2 to 2.5 feet of overhead clearance, and installed 2 60W CFLs along with the LED light to add 7800 lumens to mix...in the 2700K color temperature, to help with flowering...I also loaded it up with Fox Farm's Big Bloom fertilizer and plenty of water...and it is now on the next 2 week neglect session...and I'm hoping and praying for a female!

This is my first time growing indoors...and i wanted to get some experience in with bagseed before i try good genetics...so feel free to offer suggestions...I will update in about 1.5 weeks with new pics.

Peace
agmotes165


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #238703 - 06/11/09 08:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

the plant looks fantastic--  i can't wait to see how it goes :borat:


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: travelleler]
    #238858 - 06/12/09 04:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

why thank you sir...i always appreciate compliments:cool:


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OfflineYungpunk
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #238859 - 06/12/09 04:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

keep up the pics, love to see em! im working on a new grow right now too.


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Invisiblejwes420
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #238875 - 06/12/09 04:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

That is pretty fukkin dense!:thumbup: It looks like there are a lot of smaller branches popping up inside, too.


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: jwes420]
    #238878 - 06/12/09 05:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

yea i was a little worried that the inner branches would have trouble with shading...so i rigged up a couple of LED light bars that apply a small amount of white light on the sides to kind of draw the branches out where they could get some of the main bright light...and you can pretty much never have too much light...just too much heat...and these leds aren't super bright and are cool to the touch...so i dont have to worry about them burning my plant...


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OfflineIntegra21
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #238880 - 06/12/09 05:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

looking good so far. Interesting to see an led grow. I still want to see one that is flowered with only led's, to get a real judgement of how well they work.


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Integra21]
    #238898 - 06/12/09 05:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i would but i dont really have a good, safe way to get the plant to light distance right with my current resources...so i just set it on the bottom of the grow tent and added 2 300W equivalent CFLs to up the total amount of light...on my next grow i will be using some decent genetics...and probly get another LED light...and then just grow purely with LED lights...I like the way it handles the vegetative stage...very compact...


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #241263 - 06/20/09 08:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

well as promised here is the update...
my plant is in week 2 of 12/12 lighting...it has shown some stretching
what im worried about is the water issue...I tried some aqua globes...2 of them in the same pot...and over 2 weeks the damn things ran dry...im thinking of getting a soaker hose hooked up to a fountain pump in a 5 gallon bucket...and running the pump on a timer...

I am seeing some of the newer branches looking burned on the tips of new growth...but its not near any light...Im afraid this may be a water or nute problem...

and now for pictures...

it is now 8 inches tall...and on all 3 apical meristems...11 nodes...it looks like the burn from last time upset the balance of hormonal power...and the node below the burn took over the job of apical meristem(s)...though the original one seems to have recovered and started growing again



here is one of the developing branches...can you see any sex indicators? I can't.


here are some pictures of the burned-looking undergrowth...is there anything i can do to help/fix that?

thanks for your help guys...i will update again either next week or the week after that

peace
agmotes165


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #241599 - 06/21/09 09:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

so here are a few extra pictures that i managed to get...they are a little clearer than the last few...enjoy





here is one of the branches that have formed...looks like a good bud-producing site to me...but im no expert:cool:



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InvisibleBen18
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #241602 - 06/21/09 09:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I am going to go out on a limb here and say this plant is alittle sick.

It just doesn't look right.

Keep us posted, I'll do some research


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #241625 - 06/21/09 11:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I would suggest trimming off all of the burnt leaves (if a good portion of the leaf is still sound, just clip the burnt part and leave the rest).  This will allow you (and us) to better evaluate your plant without focusing so much on the previous burn problem; and will also open up the plant so that more light can get to the still healthy leaves.

I would also suggest trimming off the large fan leaves that are laying on the soil, as this can provide a breeding ground for fungus, small gnats/mites, etc... Not to mention, they probably aren't getting a lot of good light being that far down inside the potting container, and there is no need to force the plant to expend its energy maintaining those fairly unproductive leaves.

Thanks for your grow log... Keep up the updates, I am also very interested in these LED light systems! :thumbup:


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Offlinebobby
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: geokills]
    #241655 - 06/21/09 02:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

hope it goes well for ya! I've been interesed in leds so i guess if have success budding then i may give it go! like how compact it is


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: bobby]
    #241657 - 06/21/09 02:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

ok so i took geokills advice and trimmed a lot of the burned leaf material off, and a few of the big, dried out fan leaves around it to open up the canopy and allow light to reach the braches that were starving to death under them...you can see in these pics how the leaves underneath are pale and sickly looking...I believe this is due to lack of light...I think that the trimming should help out some...

warning...this plant is UGLY


sorry for the sideways picture

let me know if you notice anything obvious that I am doing wrong...I do not have a lot of experience with this and will appreciate any help i can get

thanks in advance
agmotes165



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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #241689 - 06/21/09 05:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

That's better! :thumbup:

Now clean up all that dead or dying rubbish laying on top of the soil.  You want to keep that shit clean! :whip: :biggrin:

Make sure you aren't over-watering.  The soil should not be sopping wet.  Your potting container should have drain holes in the bottom.  Use a measuring cup when you water the plant to figure out how much it can take without flooding out the drain holes.  The amount of water necessary will vary quite a bit depending on the plant's growth stage, container size, ambient temperature and humidity.

In between waterings, make sure you let the soil have a chance to dry out a bit and get more oxygen to the roots.  You should try to water at the beginning of your light cycle, so the plants can transpire more of the new moisture and allow for more oxygen to reach the roots during the dark cycle.  Watering just before lights out can contribute to the suffocation of the root system.

To get an idea of when to water, pick up the container.  Is it very light?  That's your sign that most of the water is gone.  A major warning sign that lets you know its time to water is if your container is way light and the leaves start to wilt or droop.  Try not to let it get to that point, but if it does and you catch it early, it won't be a big problem.  Over watering is a bigger problem in my opinion.

During the vegetative phase of growth, try to give the plant nutrients that have a slightly higher Nitrogen (N) component.  Most nutrient mixtures/solutions list the N-P-K content as a series of three numbers.  The first number is the nitrogen, second is phosphorous and third is potassium.  Once you get into the flowering phase, you'll want to switch to a nutrient solution that features a higher phosphorous (P) content.

Since this seems to be your first grow, go easy on the nutes.  Better to err on the side of caution by giving them too little nutrients, than to burn them with too much!

Good luck, and keep us updated! :sun:


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: geokills]
    #241706 - 06/21/09 06:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

thanks geokills,

I am currently watering every 2 weeks just because that is the only time i can get to my plant...I know its retarded...but i was trying to get some experience in with some bagseed before i invested in some decent genetics...also i will be able to care for it more often later on...so my future grows will probably look much better.

i have a decent amount of natural nutes from the soil mix...blood meal, bone meal, worm castings, black kow...and now that it is in flowering i am going a little light on the fox farm's big bloom liquid fertilizer...every 2 weeks, per direction minus a little just so i dont over do it.

I am also using water crystals and a huge pot relative to plant size to try and hold moisture reserves since I only water every 2 weeks...and when i do water, I water deep, until i see a small amount of water coming out of the drain holes...I am hoping that this will also help stimulate root growth...

I am currently trying to arrange my schedule so that in a few weeks i can start watering every week, but for now I am just trying to work with what I have...

thanks for the advice...keep it commin everyone :cool::thumbup:
agmotes165


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InvisibleInverted
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: geokills]
    #241989 - 06/22/09 02:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

geokills said:
That's better! :thumbup:

Now clean up all that dead or dying rubbish laying on top of the soil.  You want to keep that shit clean! :whip: :biggrin:

Make sure you aren't over-watering.  The soil should not be sopping wet.  Your potting container should have drain holes in the bottom.  Use a measuring cup when you water the plant to figure out how much it can take without flooding out the drain holes.  The amount of water necessary will vary quite a bit depending on the plant's growth stage, container size, ambient temperature and humidity.

In between waterings, make sure you let the soil have a chance to dry out a bit and get more oxygen to the roots.  You should try to water at the beginning of your light cycle, so the plants can transpire more of the new moisture and allow for more oxygen to reach the roots during the dark cycle.  Watering just before lights out can contribute to the suffocation of the root system.

To get an idea of when to water, pick up the container.  Is it very light?  That's your sign that most of the water is gone.  A major warning sign that lets you know its time to water is if your container is way light and the leaves start to wilt or droop.  Try not to let it get to that point, but if it does and you catch it early, it won't be a big problem.  Over watering is a bigger problem in my opinion.

During the vegetative phase of growth, try to give the plant nutrients that have a slightly higher Nitrogen (N) component.  Most nutrient mixtures/solutions list the N-P-K content as a series of three numbers.  The first number is the nitrogen, second is phosphorous and third is potassium.  Once you get into the flowering phase, you'll want to switch to a nutrient solution that features a higher phosphorous (P) content.

Since this seems to be your first grow, go easy on the nutes.  Better to err on the side of caution by giving them too little nutrients, than to burn them with too much!

Good luck, and keep us updated! :sun:




Excellent information Geo!!!  You couldn't have summed up so much info in so few words any better!

It might be ugly but you give that sexy lady a week or 2 and you won't even recognize it... believe me.  Keep it up agmotes!


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Inverted]
    #242079 - 06/22/09 06:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

thanks for the encouragement guys...I'm glad there are so many people around here to help me out of my n00b shell...:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #245168 - 07/02/09 09:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ok Update!!!  This is week 9 since i germinated the seed...and week 4 since i initiated flowering...

So mucho thanks to geokills, and mucho thanks to inverted and everyone else that offered optimism...I believe its starting to pay off.

Plant is now 13 inches tall at its highest point, 20 inches wide at its widest point...and working on its 14th node on the main stem...

It is definitely a female...as is visible in the pictures...




So far I am very pleased...i do have some lower branches that are growing right under the higher branches though...and was wondering if i should tie them to move them to the side a little so that the lower flowering branches can get more light?

thanks again everyone...and i will post more pics in the next few days

agmotes165


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InvisibleBen18
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #245169 - 07/02/09 09:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

dramatic change from last pictures. Looking great and great pictures I think you are going to have some delicious buds. Keep us updated.

:thumbup:


:peace:


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Ben18]
    #245174 - 07/02/09 10:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

it smells amazing...everytime i look at it...i just wanna eat it haha


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #245214 - 07/02/09 12:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Fantastic.  You're obviously taking much better care of that plant now.  Great job! :sun:


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OfflineIntegra21
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Ben18]
    #245231 - 07/02/09 01:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

looking good. And you can tie those brances out of the way. Keep up the good work.


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: geokills]
    #245240 - 07/02/09 01:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

geokills said:
Fantastic.  You're obviously taking much better care of that plant now.  Great job! :sun:



actually i only did what you told me to do...watered it thoroughly and left it alone for 2 weeks...no watering, no extra nutes...just 12/12 lights and solitude...i guess the plant was stressed from being burned...and maybe lacking proper nutes...i fertilized pretty heavily when i watered last...and for some reason this time the pot was still heavy with moisture when i checked on it...which has never happened after 2 weeks of being left alone...strange, but im not complaining :cool:


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OfflineAudz

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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #245266 - 07/02/09 02:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Not sure if I missed it or not, but are you still rocking the LED panel? I noticed the CFLs in the last pics, is that supplemental?

Looking great, though!


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Invisibleperosiste
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Audz]
    #245271 - 07/02/09 02:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:nothingtoadd:

Heres hoping your little girl grows up big and strong.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Audz]
    #245286 - 07/02/09 03:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Audz said:
Not sure if I missed it or not, but are you still rocking the LED panel? I noticed the CFLs in the last pics, is that supplemental?

Looking great, though!



LED's are still being rocked...I added 2 60W (300W equivalent) CFLs at 3900 lumens per bulb...in the 2700K range...just to help get some light at a few different angles to draw out the little branches hidden inside the forest...

I decided to tie down some branches to open up the canopy and spread the bud sites out a little so they can all receive ample light...here are some pics..


Before...



and after...

and here is a couple of the bud sites...i love these pictures...


let me know if you notice anything wrong...or if you have any suggestions...thanks again guys... :bigweed:

agmotes165


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OfflineIntegra21
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #245350 - 07/02/09 07:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

As long as you used something tick enough to tie them down, thin things like thread or fishing line can cut into stems and slow growth, it looks great. You'll be supprised how much branch growth will take off in the next week or two. Just try to keep the top cola below the next highest branch. This works even better though if you start the training before flowering, or at least if it is before the flowering stretch is over.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Integra21]
    #245759 - 07/03/09 03:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

so i have a question...

I will be leaving again in a day or two...and the plant will be left on its own for the next 2 weeks...I am wondering how much taller the plant will get. I have heard that they go through a stretching phase where they can double in height...but then just kinda slow down with vertical growth and focus on bud production...I am currently 4 weeks into flowering...is that enough time for the stretching phase to have finished up? I need to know so i can lower the plant a little before i leave...it currently has about 6 inches minimum from any light source...but i dont want it to touch the lights...any help would be awesome

thanks in advance :cool::thumbup:
agmotes165


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #245810 - 07/03/09 08:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If you're a full four weeks into flowering, I'd wager most of the stretching will be over.
Of course, your mileage may vary.  Give those plants some serious room!


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: geokills]
    #246472 - 07/06/09 09:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

ok while im waiting for flowering to progress...I figured i would ask a stupid question that probly cant be answered...

based on the size of the plant, and the fact that it is 4 weeks into flowering...what would be a conservative estimate of total bud yield off of that plant? It doesnt have to be exact...it can be a guess...or a range based on genetics...i would just like to have something to talk about while im waiting to check on my plant again...

peace
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #247124 - 07/08/09 03:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Loose lips sink ships. Cannabis grows are not something to be conversed about. Talking about such things merely invites rippers and police.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Ojom]
    #247134 - 07/08/09 05:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I have always thought that growing with LEDs was a spoof, apparently I am wrong. Like those UFO LED Grow Lights, might have to try one.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Dephect]
    #247141 - 07/08/09 08:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:u sold me, got 4 panels ordered 4rm HTG, i'll be taking clones once they arrive, and hell i may even start a journal on it. But only LED, i will use no other light supply.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: bobby]
    #247283 - 07/08/09 06:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bobby said:

...hell i may even start a journal on it. But only LED, i will use no other light supply.




Please DO do a journal! :gethigh:

This is obviously a topic that a lot of growers are interested in, but are hesitant to invest in new lighting when there have been so few independent reports as to their functionality/efficiency.  I know I'd be very excited to read about your experience, as I'm sure would many others!


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: geokills]
    #247328 - 07/08/09 09:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

well I am sold on LEDs...I just bought a new 120W LED light from the same company...and plan on doing another growtent...hopefully with avalanche genetics from highgrade seeds...

but for now...ill just dream about my baby...

peace
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #251067 - 07/18/09 04:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ok the two week update is in...It is starting to develop nice little buds...and smells awesome...if you get close enough its kindof a sweet, fruity smell...very nice actually...about the same size as last time...just a little heavier with calyx material.


These pictures were taken when i first arrived on the scene...and it was a little dry...I noticed a few of the small leaves were droopy...and some of the bigger leaves have some orangy-yellow stuff down in the veins...and reddish-purple stems. Any idea what the problem is?

I think its from being a little on the dry side...and I know this is not optimal but from now till harvest i will be checking on it once a week instead of once every 2 weeks...

let me know what you think.
Peace
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #251229 - 07/18/09 11:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

thought i would do a little photo-manipulation to make these pics look kinda cool...


just thought i would include these since i like them...peace :bigweed:
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #251265 - 07/19/09 01:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Looks fucking GREAT man... I wanna see my bagseed that far along, I'd say you are about 3-4 weeks ahead of me.  Just keep doing what you are doing because she looks pretty healthy and on her way to your pipe in a few weeks!


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Inverted]
    #254557 - 07/25/09 07:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ok...now my updates will be weekly until harvest...
This is Week 7 of flowering...Filling out nicely :bigweed:

with flash


without flash


some pics o the various buds forming...they smell delicious...


These two pics were taken through a jeweler's lupe...

i bought a brand new 120W led from the same company that i bought the 90W version from last week...so when i got it...i just switched them out. I am putting in a second tent but i wont start my next grow for a couple of weeks...so i figured this plant might enjoy some extra light...its supposed to be the equivalent of a 600W HPS light...and the 90 is supposed to be a 400W HPS equivalent.

The plant is about 14" tall, 30" wide...with many many branches
I am currently watering once a week (best I can do) with full strength fox farm big bloom. The water crystals seem to have been the only reason this grow has been successful given my neglectful watering schedule...I can load up that 3 gallon pot with about 1 gallon of water and it wont seep through the bottom...gets heavy as shit...anyway...let me know what you guys think.

Peace :cool::thumbup:
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #254572 - 07/25/09 09:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

More Pics...

Hope you like em
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #254612 - 07/25/09 12:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Very pretty. 

On your next grow, will you use only the LED's for any part?
(I take it you're fairly satisfied seeing as you bought another)

How much did those LED's run you?


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: geokills]
    #255029 - 07/25/09 07:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yea I am going to go all LED for the 120W...and the 90W was around 375 and the 120W was around 450...a little more expensive...but I like being able to veg 24/0 without worrying about overheating or high electricity bills. Keeps my roomate happy.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #255368 - 07/26/09 10:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So i just changed out my Can Filter to a new, bigger one bc it started leaking smell...I was wondering for those of you who use carbon filters, do you use them the whole grow...like veg and flower, and how long will one sized for your grow room last?


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #255618 - 07/26/09 08:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

hey agmote can u send a pic of the bottom of the plants id like to see how far down the leds produce decent growth all in all the led looks to be producing some very respectable buds so far


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: supersiege]
    #255645 - 07/26/09 09:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I can get you a photo in about a week...but there are some "popcorn" buds growing on the first node at the very bottom of the stem...


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #256196 - 07/27/09 05:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm loving watching this LED come into it's own.:yesnod:


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Stoneth]
    #256208 - 07/27/09 05:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

In the next few weeks ill start a pure LED grow with 4 satori seeds from mandala seeds...That way i know about what to expect so i can compare and contrast as far as bud appearance, density, yield, etc. I will do a seperate growlog on that...I feel like LEDs are the way of the future...plus the beginner can (theoretically) get the same effect of a 1000W HPS bulb with an LED light that only uses 300W, greatly reducing the difference in electricity use and heat production...


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #258244 - 07/31/09 06:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ok so heres my weekly update on the way to harvest...week 9 in flowering


going very well...getting stinky though...its smelling through the new carbon filter and it get really noticable in the apartment when the lights come on and it gets hot...so i hooked the output of the fan into another carbon filter...so that it runs opposite the way its supposed to...that way the air sorta gets double filtered on the way out...i will probly do it this way...and hope for the best...

here some bud pics...


this one goes out to supersiege on his question earlier about undergrowth

with flash


and without...

i flushed the soil this morning in preparation of harvesting in the next 2 to 3 weeks...sent about 2 gallons through...until the water coming out the bottom was almost clear yellow instead of reddish brown...

let me know what you guys think, or tell me if im doing anything wrong..

peace
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #258248 - 07/31/09 07:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

looking real good. You should have some nice smoke in about a month.(drying&curing) Like how frosty they are. Thats what really gets me foaming at the mouth. Keep up the good work.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Integra21]
    #258945 - 08/02/09 08:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

so how close does it look to being done? By done i guess i mean 1/4 to 1/2 amber trichomes...and I am looking for an estimate...in weeks probly...

Just wondering...Also im looking for best smoke and maybe some novelty appearance, wondering what I should do to help the curing process along. I have currently flushed the soil once, and plan to do so again next week if its not ready to harvest. I have heard that trimming most of the big fan leaves off a few weeks before harvest will help force the plant to convert it's starch stores into sugars, and use up the sugars to survive. I am looking to get rid of as much starch and chlorophyll as i can to let the underlying colors and flavors shine through.

Any help would be awesome...Thanks in advance
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #259111 - 08/03/09 01:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ok now im definitely sold on buying one of these led lights


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: 114425]
    #259194 - 08/03/09 06:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Glad to help out...all of my grows from now on will be LED...I cant wait to compare the yields of my satori grow (starting in a couple of weeks) with a couple of other satori grows using HID's of similar equivalent wattage.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #259195 - 08/03/09 06:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:highfive: Sweet shit dude. Sweet shit indeed.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Triptonic]
    #259365 - 08/04/09 01:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

dont cut the fan leaves till your ready i tried it on my current grow, i cut the fans on one plant and that one plant is shooting out more banana pods than i know what to do with...one more question how tall is the plant... imo looks like you got a good 2 wks till finish from last pics


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: supersiege]
    #259424 - 08/04/09 10:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why does it matter how tall the plant is?


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Triptonic]
    #259652 - 08/04/09 06:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

not more than 2 feet tall...probly more like 18 inches. Thats with 5 weeks of Veg. The LED seems to keep the plants super compact


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Triptonic]
    #259669 - 08/04/09 07:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

triptonic said:
Why does it matter how tall the plant is?




i noticed growth goes basically to the bottom of the soil...from what ive been told by people who use led and the lighting distributers here is that  they dont span out very far and that they dont penetrate very well for larger plants... so by knowing height of plant i know how far down the light is reaching...i think that led could change the indoor grow scene once the price comes down enough to offset the increased number of them that you need, if that is the colas produced are comparable. Of course not having to exhaust heat makes designing a sealed co2 augmented room alot easier which could off set the buds being lighter


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: supersiege]
    #259670 - 08/04/09 07:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

O I C :borat:


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Triptonic]
    #259689 - 08/04/09 08:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Oh yea and i did trim up about half of the fan leaves before your comment supersiege, ooops :tongue:

I'll cross my fingers and hope like hell for no bananas! No biggie though...I'll just pinch as many as i can off and hope for the best :shrug:

Thanks for the advice and encouragement guys...I really like the LEDs for the power use and the heat generated...I have a SOG log that will be starting up in the next week or two...ill post the link on here when i get that one started...and keep you guys updated on how this one goes...

peace  :rastamon:
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #259751 - 08/04/09 10:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Very nice!  You have done a stellar job so far and I like your willingness to try out some new equipment even though it was costly and there have not been many confirmed highly successful grows using them.  Even though you used some supplemental lighting I believe you produced some very high quality large and dense colas.  Congratulations man those are only going to get stickier and larger in the next 1.5 - 2 weeks.  I anxiously await your results, as you can see I am about 3 weeks behind you in a very similar grow.  1 single bagseed lady, vegged for 4.5 weeks, indoor under 175 MH and the sun when possible. Check out my log you haven't said anything! :nono:


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #260036 - 08/05/09 01:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

should be fine if you didnt take em all, i have 4 ladies right now, one i took all the fans and it hermied the other i took about half and its doing fine and one i didnt touch....the one i didnt touch has the biggest buds now, fan leaves have always been contraversy with me and my friends some say the buds need the light some say leaves carry it to buds...after my little experiment i would definatly say never trim them, for about a wk now ive been pinching banana pods and ive seen one seed start to develop and the plant just keeps making more and more pods its a pain and i got about a week to go with that plant


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: supersiege]
    #261222 - 08/07/09 02:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Weekly update:



some of the leaves are started to yellow a little...


and i noticed what looks like a small splotchy leaf right at the growth tip...any ideas on what it might be?


Also...any ideas on whether its ready...or if not how much longer does it need to go?

Thanks,
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #261225 - 08/07/09 02:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

looks pretty close. Depends on what type of high you want. Go by the trichome color.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Ben18]
    #261240 - 08/07/09 02:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

just checked with my 100x cheapo magnifier...and all trichomes were milky, with about 5-10% amber...I will probly harvest late tonight about midway through the night cycle...If anyone thinks i should wait...speak now or its comin down tonight :crazy2:


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #261241 - 08/07/09 02:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Again its all up to you but I like a 50/50 mix....


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #261243 - 08/07/09 02:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

looking nice. Have you tried a popcorn nug to see if you like the high? If you do, you can't judge taste or smell, simply the high it gives you. That's always a good secondary decision maker, making sure you enjoy the high it gives you. Good job either way, and you'll be enjoying some good smoke sometime in the near future.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Integra21]
    #261461 - 08/08/09 01:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'd say give it a few more days... But like Trip said, it's all about the type of high you want... I personally smoke from morning to bed so I would harvest right now but if you like more of a body stone and tired type high then wait another week.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Inverted]
    #261462 - 08/08/09 01:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i like a heavy body high personally.  that bud looks dank as shit!  Nice work!


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #261552 - 08/08/09 04:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

lol body high FTW!


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Triptonic]
    #261565 - 08/08/09 09:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

haha well my personal preference is something you can smoke and then continue with what you are doing at a slowed pace...or an uplifting, cerebral high, so I harvested last night...freezing the trim now to make some nice bubble...I'll get some pics up here in the next few days...

peace,
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #261569 - 08/08/09 10:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Been lurking around watching this grow.



Sweet Grow, Can't wait to here about the buzz.



:peace:


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: KaptKid]
    #261570 - 08/08/09 10:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thanks man...
They are currently slow-drying in my tent with the lights off...temps around 70-75oF and 63% RH...how long should i do the initial dry...before i put them in jars for the cure?


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #261587 - 08/08/09 12:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

till they're dry. usually 1-2 weeks. If you bend a stem and it snaps, its dry, if it bends, its not.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #261652 - 08/08/09 02:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

agmotes165 said:
haha well my personal preference is something you can smoke and then continue with what you are doing at a slowed pace...or an uplifting, cerebral high, so I harvested last night...freezing the trim now to make some nice bubble...I'll get some pics up here in the next few days...

peace,
agmotes165




You won't regret that decision.  I know what you mean, you like to still be almost fully functional while you are stoned and that's exactly how I like to be, I save the couchlock for movie watching and before bed shenanigans.

Can't wait to see the outcome... Good work bro.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #261791 - 08/08/09 06:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm absolutely thrilled, lovin' to see how far this grow has come! :smile2:

When I first saw this thread, your plant looked like this...

           


Now after little more than a month and a half, you have harvested some beautiful buds! :ganja:

       

       


:sun: :sunny: :sun:  Congratulations!  :sun: :sunny: :sun:
                        :ganja:


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: geokills]
    #261792 - 08/08/09 07:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why do I see a CFL in there?


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Triptonic]
    #261801 - 08/08/09 07:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Probably because he's using CFL's along with his LED.  It seems that these early generation LED grow lights are too specific in the wavelengths of visible light produced.  The CFL's will provide a wider bandwidth of light to the plants, supplemented by the LED's high concentration in the red (~660nm) and blue (~460nm) wavelengths.

I am in fact having a custom 300w LED array featuring 5 different 1W LED's with 60 degree viewing angles built right now.  20% of the board will feature 4500K White LED's to fill out the spectrum alongside two shades of red, one blue and one violet.  I decided on this configuration after reading fairly extensively about LED's (spurred in large part by this very thread!), including some literature on photosynthesis and chlorophyll production in order to determine where the peak production occurs (with respect to light wavelength).

I'd like to know what specific LED agmotes used for his grow, as well as what type of CFL's (wattage/color temp).  Forgive me if this information was already presented!


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: geokills]
    #261802 - 08/08/09 07:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I thought it was just a straight LED grow.....


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Triptonic]
    #261862 - 08/08/09 09:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I remember him saying somewhere in the beginning that cfls were being used for supplemental lighting.


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Integra21]
    #261875 - 08/08/09 10:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I found out along the way that UVB was pretty much essential in THC production in the trichomes...which is why most HID lighting works well with MJ, since they give off decent amounts of UV light along with regular vegetative light. So while LED's are amazing for vegetative and flowering growth...they do seem to require some form of UV light source.

I have seen UV LED lights for sale on the internets, but UVB LEDs are pretty expensive. I used 2 60W nominal watt (300W equivalent) CFLs, 3900 lumens a piece, in the 2700K color temp not only for supplemental lumens, but also for a decent amount of UV light. I will be installing 1 40W UVB tanning bulb in each grow tent from now on to keep those trichomes working...and will post details in my satori grow log here in the next week or so.

The particular fixture used in this grow was a 90W Boxer Grow Light from growlLED (type that into google and click the first link) With the 7:1:1 ratio of red:blue:orange LED spectrums. I purchased a 120W model from the same company for my second grow tent.

anyway...time for pics of my trimmed harvest slow drying...


hope you guys like it...cant wait to try this out...
peace,
agmotes165


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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #261968 - 08/09/09 01:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Gimme your best estimate on your yield!  You know my plant is pretty similar in size, maybe a couple more main tops but I am pretty much basing my yield off of yours, since our plants look very much alike.

You haven't taken a tester nug yet? I just cut one the other day and it's close to being smoked, looks pretty chronic and it's one of the lower immature buds, nothing like the tops. :thumbup:


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LED's [Re: Data]
    #262110 - 08/09/09 01:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting that the Boxer GrowL LED you're using features orange lights.  From what I could gather, light in the green/yellow/light orange spectrum provides minimal benefit for greenhouse growery.  Chlorophyll a and b production occur primarily at 400 - 475 nm (violet + blue) as well as 640 - 675nm (deep orange - deep red).  I read that orange wavelengths reaching into the 620 - 640nm range could help phycocyanin production, but as phycocyanin is known best as the blue pigment found predominantly in blue-green algae (cyanobacteria), I'm not sure it is relevant to cannabis?

At any rate, that's why I'm including 20% 4500K White LED's on the array I'm getting later this month... because I'm sure those intermediary wavelengths help for various secondary processes that the plant must go through for efficient production.  As for the UV remark, I am also including 5% violet/deep blue LED in the 430nm wavelength.  Not quite UV, but getting close and good for supporting chlorophyll a and beta carotene action.

I wonder what the viewing (light dispersion) angle is on the LED's you're using?  I'm going to run with 60 degrees on this first prototype, in order to focus the light in a tight enough beam that it can carry some distance to penetrate into the canopy, but wide enough that the various wavelengths can cross paths (mix) before hitting the top of the plant when placed about 10" above the canopy.


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Re: LED's [Re: geokills]
    #262176 - 08/09/09 03:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

here's a few pics to help with the angle maybe...


the last one is for arrangement...

hope this helps...
agmotes165


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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #262248 - 08/09/09 05:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

what kind of temp was your room averaging? they say these led lights cut fown on temp with built in fans but id like to hear from someone whos used one not trying to sell one.


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Re: LED's [Re: 114425]
    #262257 - 08/09/09 05:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I was ventilating with a vortex VTX 400 through a can filter 9000...in a Homebox S, which is 31.5"x31.5"x63"...and i dont think I ever got above 85oF. And this is with the ambient air outside of the tent around 75-80o

I believe that LED are not very efficient light sources when talking about Lumens/watt. The 90W growlight that i use is rated at 4000 lumens.
The reason why they reduce heat output is because of their specific wavelengths, so that while my grow light produces 4000 lumens, almost all of that light is absorbed and used by the plant, as where it would take b/w 35000 and 40000 lumens of standard daylight to produce the equivalent amount of photo-active red/blue light. Therefore you can run lower lumens, and lower wattage. The only drawback I see about the LEDs is that they are missing the UV portion of the spectrum that seems to be essential for THC production in copious amounts. These essential wavelengths of light are produced in decent amounts by other HID light sources, but I believe that incorporating a small UVB light in ur grow room and running it 1-3 hours during the middle of the day cycle in the 12/12 lighting to see any stellar results.

We will see if the CFLs produced enough UV when this stuff finishes curing :grin:
agmotes165


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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #262903 - 08/10/09 08:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just started my new Satori growlog, feel free to check it out here


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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #266796 - 08/18/09 07:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

any pics of the finished buds?


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Re: LED's [Re: 114425]
    #266820 - 08/18/09 11:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

not yet sir...they are not done with the drying process....I hope to transfer them to the jars for curing in the next few days

peace
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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #266828 - 08/18/09 12:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

not know if you know the tricks, but if you bed the stem and it has a sharp crack and breaks, its dry. or if you checked wet weight before you hung, its dry when it looses approx. 3/4 of the original weight. Just wait till you smoke it after 3 weeks of jaring. at that point my Widow started tasting fantastic. Later Agmotes.


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Re: LED's [Re: Integra21]
    #266854 - 08/18/09 03:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yessir...some of the smaller twigs are beginning to crack when bent...the larger branches are taking a little longer to get there...I will probly start curing in the next 2-3 days.

I actually had the pleasure of doing a side-by-side comparison of cured vs. non-cured bud last night. I tried the cured then the un-cured, and the uncured tasted like straight ass and burned all the way down. The cured bud on the other hand gave me almost no trouble and actually had a pleasant taste to it. These buds were taken from the same plant, and one bud was cured, the other just had an extended drying...The difference was very noticable.

peace
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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #266860 - 08/18/09 03:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

not know if you know the tricks, but if you bed the stem and it has a sharp crack and breaks, its dry. or if you checked wet weight before you hung, its dry when it looses approx. 3/4 of the original weight. Just wait till you smoke it after 3 weeks of jaring. at that point my Widow started tasting fantastic. Later Agmotes.


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Re: LED's [Re: Integra21]
    #266861 - 08/18/09 03:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmm double post?


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Re: LED's [Re: Inverted]
    #266865 - 08/18/09 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I hope so...that would be some intense deja vu


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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #266878 - 08/18/09 04:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hahah so you haven't even tested any popcorn nugs or anything from your plant?  It looks delicious, I sure know I couldn't keep my scissors off her for that long!  Smoke a bowl of it and tell me how it is?  Or mail me some... lol jk


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Re: LED's [Re: Inverted]
    #266900 - 08/18/09 04:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

haha yea i need to try some...maybe when i put them into curing ill pop off one of the smaller nugs and try it.


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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #266907 - 08/18/09 05:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They don't need to be totally dry to smoke, I smoke em' fresh off the plant sometimes.  You must not be crunched for smoke money I'd assume.  You just buy weed and grow occasionally?  I try to only smoke what I grow...  Try that shit!  Neow!  :whip:


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Re: LED's [Re: Inverted]
    #266942 - 08/18/09 06:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I only smoke what i grow...but i dont smoke all the time...mostly weekends and vacations...sometimes when im stressed...but its mostly to see how good of a smoke I can grow/cure.


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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #266943 - 08/18/09 07:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Aww I see so that'll last you a good while then... See my single plant will probably last me for about 3-4 weeks, if that... its sad really, and I don't even smoke bowls.


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Re: LED's [Re: Inverted]
    #268106 - 08/20/09 09:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So I just moved all of the harvest to a jar for curing...it all fit in a single jar...I did save 2 small popcorn buds and I will probly be trying them out 2morrow night...so look for a preliminary smoke report in the next few days :grin::thumbup:

peace
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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #269844 - 08/24/09 05:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ok time for a smoke report of the un-cured bud.

The smoke was thick and deadly. I coughed really hard for a minute or two, it was definitely opaque in my new bong. Tasted like I was breathing cotton. I would assume this means that I really need to cure the hell out of it.

The high was intense. It was definitely a racy, cerebral high, at one point I felt like I was mildly tripping, and felt almost like a rotating crystalline being. After that I slept wonderfully with happy dreams all night long, and awoke refreshed. I did have a little bit of a sore throat, but I guess that comes with the territory. The bud now smells like lemon meringue pie, with a touch of pine.

I am attempting an experiment with water curing on a small bud, to see how that works on acrid tasting bud like this as compared to 30 days of jar-curing. I will keep you guys updated on the progress of that, but for now...enjoy some pictures :rastamon:





lemme know whatchoo think
peace
agmotes165


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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #269871 - 08/24/09 06:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

let me know how the water curing goes. I wanted to try but just couldnt bring myself to dunk my fresh cut buds.


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Re: LED's [Re: Integra21]
    #269947 - 08/24/09 09:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Looks dank as fooook man!  I don't think they made you cough because of being un-cured.  I think it's the "THC burn" as I call it.  When it's as crystally as that, when you exhale is when it tends to burn the worst.  I only get that type of cough with the dankest of dank buds.  I attribute it to the massive amount of crystals/trichomes.  Last year I didn't cure any of my 1/2 lb. and it didn't smoke much different than cured buds... Just didn't smell quite as dank.

Is that all of your harvest right there on that plate???


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Re: LED's [Re: Inverted]
    #270192 - 08/25/09 08:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yessir unfortunately that is it. I hope to get more off of this next grow...hopefully haha


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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #274404 - 09/02/09 05:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ok so my water-curing went well...

the one on the left was the bud i used for the water curing...the one on the right is one of the many buds that are air curing right now...

I will be testing this water cured bud tonight...so expect a smoke report in the near future...

peace,
agmotes165


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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #274979 - 09/03/09 09:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

so update on the smoke report:

It is a very energetic high, we had a new guy there and he kinda freaked out and went to bed...but felt fine in the morning. It a very jittery, creative high.

Taste is still undesirable, but much better than the non-cured version. I'm assuming that would be the "THC burn" as Inverted says. Anyway, I really enjoy the speed of the water cure...I think I am going to cure my entire harvest this way, with the minor change of letting it soak 9-10 days instead of 7 days.

This will probly be the last official update on this growlog. It's been tons of fun, feel free to join in on my next satori growlog. Thanks for the help everyone, You guys made the difference.

Peace :cool::thumbup::rastamon:
agmotes165


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Re: LED's [Re: Data]
    #274982 - 09/03/09 09:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You did great man!!  Thanks!


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Re: LED's [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #519244 - 01/26/11 02:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

great job on the grow, water curing is interesting method, did you find any more less concentration of the high compared too jar curing?


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Re: LED's [Re: Canaman]
    #519384 - 01/26/11 08:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not sure if it was the water curing or the bud or a combination of both but that stuff got me somewhere in low-earth orbit after one or two hits. The only problem with this method is that I believe i dried the bud too much afterward, and it tasted horrible. It got rid of the smell too, didn't smell like marijuana anymore, more like cured tea leaves (maybe this could be a good way to stealthify weed).

Peace,
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Re: Single Bagseed Indoor LED Gamble [Re: Data]
    #519920 - 01/27/11 09:12 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

very perdy


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