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InvisibleDataM
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #850668 - 10/08/21 08:16 AM (7 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
When we are conceived, brought into existence, we replicate using the resources around us autonomously. Do viruses do the same?




No, and I am familiar with the high school biology definition of life. What I am trying to get across here is that in reality there is no scientific consensus on the definition of life, and therefore the ability to autonomously replicate is not necessarily a hard line between "life" and "not-life".

What about gametes? They are separate cells from the bulk organism, they carry genetic information, but it is not the original copy from the original organism, they cannot divide, they cannot autonomously replicate and lack the necessary genetics or organelles to ever autonomously replicate, they sometimes can't move, they have either a very limited or non-existent metabolism, and they require existing life in order to be produced. And yet, gametes like the human egg and sperm, which required to bring us into existence are considered living tissue, despite the specific limitation you just used to argue that viruses are not living.


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Data]
    #850675 - 10/08/21 08:36 AM (7 days, 22 hours ago)

....can they be both not living and THEN living? Like a new class of "life"? So like Quantum physics, the word life breaks down the further down you go :strokebeard:


Well that just sounds like we are in a simulation :ancientaliens:


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Edited by spirit_shadow (10/08/21 08:38 AM)


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #850685 - 10/08/21 11:19 AM (7 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
....can they be both not living and THEN living? Like a new class of "life"? So like Quantum physics, the word life breaks down the further down you go :strokebeard:


Well that just sounds like we are in a simulation :ancientaliens:




That's my whole point, the classification of viruses as living or not living is not so cut and dry.

It can't really be based on physical size or genetic makeup, because the Pandoravirus genus are 1000nm in diameter and contain 2.5 Million base pairs in their genetic code. By comparison, the bacterial species Mycoplasma genitalium is 200-300nm in diameter and has 580 thousand base pairs in their genetic code.

The biggest problem right now is that we have things in nature that we commonly understand to be alive, that mostly or completely overlap with viral descriptions. If we want to exclude viruses from life, then we have to exclude other things that come from living things. So then, sexual reproduction looks more like: A living cell generates several non-living packages of genetic information with no metabolism and no ability to replicate autonomously, and then that inert "rock with DNA" has to infect a host, merge, and insert its genetics into another host cell in order to start the replication process. Couple this with the fact that the living cell that generates these new non-living gametes no longer exists once the non-living gametes are produced...and you've got something that looks a lot like viral replication.

Additionally, what about artificial life? Not only have we created full functional synthetic genomes, and created bacteria that can successfully function and replicate autonomously. We have also created inorganic cellular structures that have metabolisms, can move around seeking higher quality chemical environments, and can even accumulate intracellular chemicals and divide into multiple copies of itself. We also routinely simulate biological processes, including metabolism and autonomous replication, with software-based genetics. Hell, we even have computer viruses these days that evolve and change as they replicate and spread

Anyway, the scientific community has essentially done what you suggested, because they can't figure out the binary answer for viruses. They normally just say "viruses have a lot of the properties of other living things, clearly distinguishing themselves from clearly non-living material, but also lack a few things that we consider necessary for life, so they are kinda living and kinda not." Others are attempting to put a name to this in the form of "non-cellular life", but then they haven't decided whether to adopt that term. So yea, like I said from the beginning, the living classification of viruses is a super murky topic. :shrug:

Fun fact: There are even more simple organic infectious agents called viroids, that only consist of a single circular strand of RNA, that primarily infect and cause disease in plants.
:themoreyouknow:


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Data]
    #850688 - 10/08/21 11:31 AM (7 days, 19 hours ago)

Fuck it, yeah let's exclude whatever we need to :wonka:


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #850691 - 10/08/21 11:39 AM (7 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
Fuck it, yeah let's exclude whatever we need to :wonka:



Hate to break it to ya spirit_shadow, but your jizz isn't alive :shrug: I'm sorry for your loss...


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Data]
    #850692 - 10/08/21 11:40 AM (7 days, 19 hours ago)

I said we can exclude whatever we need to :lol:


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #850694 - 10/08/21 11:44 AM (7 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
I said we can exclude whatever we need to :lol:



What you do in the bedroom is your own business, sir.


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #850697 - 10/08/21 01:02 PM (7 days, 18 hours ago)

Ok but what I do in the bedroom may very well be what is the deciding factor in whether a virus is alive or not :house:


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #850701 - 10/08/21 01:12 PM (7 days, 18 hours ago)

:awewtf:  :awwhellno:


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Data]
    #850703 - 10/08/21 02:19 PM (7 days, 16 hours ago)

Don't blame me, blame science :awehigh:


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #850704 - 10/08/21 02:28 PM (7 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
Don't blame me, blame science :awehigh:



:androidlol:


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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Data]
    #850723 - 10/08/21 07:03 PM (7 days, 12 hours ago)

my jizz is entirely viruses


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #850725 - 10/08/21 07:05 PM (7 days, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

Data said:
:awewtf:  :awwhellno:




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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #850731 - 10/08/21 07:31 PM (7 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Data said:
Quote:

Data said:
:awewtf:  :awwhellno:






:awewtf:  :awwhellno:


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Offlinekreg
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #850738 - 10/08/21 07:53 PM (7 days, 11 hours ago)



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InvisibleDataM
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: kreg]
    #850739 - 10/08/21 08:49 PM (7 days, 10 hours ago)

holy shit its split_by_nine!


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OfflineSameThing
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Data]
    #850762 - 10/08/21 09:45 PM (7 days, 9 hours ago)

I had split by nine on ignore bcos that avatar was too scary for me. I forgot about the hide avatar function.


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: SameThing]
    #850763 - 10/08/21 10:09 PM (7 days, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

SameThing said:
I had split by nine on ignore bcos that avatar was too scary for me. I forgot about the hide avatar function.



Too scary? :underage:


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OfflineSameThing
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #850768 - 10/09/21 07:02 AM (7 days, 15 minutes ago)

:yes:


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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: SameThing]
    #850769 - 10/09/21 07:09 AM (7 days, 8 minutes ago)

That's just a state of mind maaaan :chong:


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