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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: Data]
    #823983 - 02/22/17 12:28 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Depends on how big they are, If it were me I wouldn't at just three weeks from germination. Let em grow a bit.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #823988 - 02/22/17 02:39 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I like to do it so that the lowest branches are as low to the ground as possible. Basically there is no need to fight gravity and you can have 'large plants' that are relatively short.

They end up being around a 5-12" tall when I top them. Seedlings are a little harder to top at first than clones, which tend to branch out from wherever the lowest node you left was.

From clones. Branching out as low as possible.


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: phychotron]
    #823989 - 02/22/17 02:40 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Actually if you look at that photo in the center there's a ruler, seems to indicate I had them topped at around 3". Not advised with a seedling.


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: phychotron]
    #823990 - 02/22/17 02:51 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Now that I'm thinking about it, here's my general guideline for topping seedlings. Look down on the plant and you'll notice the branches go in different directions. Some plants like to form +'s in the way they branch out, basically 4 main branches before they start stacking above each other on the main stalk. Other plants have more branches that come out at different angles, so as to have 8 branches before coming out in the same spot above another branch, i.e forming +'s and X's when looking straight down.  Basically just look at the plant and determine if they are starting to overlap and top the one's that are. Keep the lowest 4 or 8 branches depending on which you have.

On the other hand some plants will not do anything with side branches when you top them. I just topped one that left all the side branches small and focused on the two top most branches. I just topped a bunch so I'll get some photos tomorrow or something.


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: phychotron]
    #823991 - 02/22/17 03:11 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

day 12 of veg of a clone, already topped, not sure when.


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: phychotron]
    #824134 - 02/25/17 09:51 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Week 2 update in OP. :highfive:


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: Data]
    #824139 - 02/26/17 05:34 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

You should post the update as a new post. Its easier to get updates, but also when you edit the post and something goes wrong on the boards you will loose your entire original post. Trust me, it sucks to loose an entire grow log.  Once you get the new content secure on the forums you can go and edit the OP to include all the current info. Just copy the bbcode before you hit post and you can quickly paste it to the OP.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
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“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: phychotron]
    #824140 - 02/26/17 05:35 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

and looking good btw.


--------------------
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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: phychotron]
    #824141 - 02/26/17 07:29 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Will do mang, thanks for the tip :cool::thumbup:


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: Data]
    #824526 - 03/08/17 08:58 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Week 3/4 Update (late)
Sorry for the delay, its been a busy few weeks. I ran into some trouble with my plants...

They were doing great until last thursday or so. Then they started drooping, and the lowest set of leaves began to turn yellow. It looks like a Nitrogen deficiency, but I was told by several sources that the Fox Farm Ocean Soil mix that I'm using is hot, and doesn't need nutes for about 8 weeks. I decided that it might be a sensitive strain (as hawks already pointed out) and was responding to being slightly rootbound. So I re-potted them into their final 10 gallon fabric pots. As you can see, the roots were through the soil, but not what I would consider root-bound.


The below photo was taken during the normal Friday Week 3 update. The leaves had perked up.


I figured they would need a couple of days to show signs of recovery. Unfortunately, as of today (middle of Week 4), the yellowing continues up from the bottom.


Now, I can't offer much detail to really pin down the problem right now. I plan on getting a soil testing kit tomorrow to see what the soil pH, and NPK ratios are. Other than that, I can tell you that I've been watering with a dilute kelp extract (using RO water) to encourage root development and reduce stress. I also know that my humidity in the tent runs way low (25-35% at all times, temperatures range from 70-80ish degrees F).

If anyone has any ideas, feel free to throw them out there. I've got some FF nutes on hot standby if need be, but I don't want to get too hasty before I know whats going on in the soil.

Updates to follow at Week 4 update :pipesmoke:


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: Data]
    #824538 - 03/09/17 07:30 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Over or under watering? I uses FFOF and can get some pretty big plants in 1 gallon pots without problems or nutes. My soil ph is 7. I water with ph 7 tap water.Using RO water alot of people seem to have the PH drop in FFOF. So definitely check that.


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: Legalize]
    #824540 - 03/09/17 08:45 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Looks Like N def. to me? You might have got a weak batch of FF ? I would make a light feed for one plant and see what happens! :shrug:


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
    #824543 - 03/09/17 10:20 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Everyone raves about FFOF but I hear a lot of issues from their stuff. Then I see these small plants with deficiencies from the go and I'm reminded why I don't use soil. If your not mixing it up yourself you have no idea how consistent the bag is from month to month.

Here's how FFOF typically goes down:

"heard it was great"
"heard it was hot"
"heard I don't need any nutrients till the end"
"heard I just needed some epsom salt"
"why are my plants dying after I watered them with epsom salt?"

Looks like a nitrogen deficiency. First I'd feed it some humic acid to try and boost the nutrient uptake, then maybe I'd foliar spray lightly with something like Humboldt Nutrients's Verde. It also has some Mg, iron, zinc and humic acid to help reduce common deficiencies.

Foliar sprays are great because your not cluttering up your root zone with stuff, and they require far less nutrients when absorbing them through the leaves.

I think the plant is growing faster than the soil can provide certain nutrients. Beneficial bacteria might help your situation.


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: phychotron]
    #824547 - 03/09/17 10:51 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Guys dont clutter ur root zone with stuff like nutrients. Lol 
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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: Theman]
    #824551 - 03/09/17 07:12 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

When you have soil and you don't know the nutrient content and you add more your risking burning your plants, locking out nutrients or both. I prefer the KISS method, keeping the feed simple to prevent unneeded flushes that take more nutrients away and start you at another arbitrary point. Overfeeding then flushing is not the same as normal feeding without flushing.

Foliar sprays don't effect the root zone chemistry :wink:


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: phychotron]
    #824564 - 03/10/17 02:39 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Week 4:
Thanks for the responses, guys. I think there were several different causes for the drooping and yellowing. The small cups of soil that I had them in initially were drying out very very quickly prior to transplanting...so there may have been some under-watering issues arising. Additionally, after testing the soil, the pH is ok at about 6.5-7.0, but the NPK is way off. Soluble N was nearly undetectable, Soluble P was medium-low, and Soluble K was medium.

I'm assuming that there might be some organic sources of the nutrients that aren't currently water soluble, and with proper symbionts may eventually be released for plant use. However, I need the nutrients now. So I took pyschotron's advice and foliar fed this morning (right before the lights came on) with a very dilute solution of FF GrowBig (6-4-4). And plan on watering with Growbig every other watering for a while along with my rooting inoculant to see how the plants react, and will foliar feed every few days, with at least one rinse spray a week to wash off excess salt buildup. They seem to have gotten through the worst of it, and appear to be responding positively to the nutrients.

They have several nodes now, and were starting to put out bottom branches, so I went ahead and topped them prior to taking photos. I also lowered the light a couple of inches, because the internode length seemed to be increasing since I had to raise the light to account for the larger pots. I probably set the light too high again. :dumblol:

Anyway, here's some pics. Until next week :pipesmoke:


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: phychotron]
    #824568 - 03/10/17 04:12 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
When you have soil and you don't know the nutrient content and you add more your risking burning your plants, locking out nutrients or both. I prefer the KISS method, keeping the feed simple to prevent unneeded flushes that take more nutrients away and start you at another arbitrary point. Overfeeding then flushing is not the same as normal feeding without flushing.

Foliar sprays don't effect the root zone chemistry :wink:




Lol ur making a case not to use soil now?? Dont ammend ur soil guys.haha 
For newbs maybe but when u know plants u def want ro add things as needed to ur soil or xhange ur mix etc.  Anyway, trust3d newb :wink:


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: Theman]
    #824573 - 03/10/17 05:18 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I mean, this is my first grow in 6 years or so, and my first soil grow in 8+ years....so yea I'll take some newb advice, I'm definitely out of the swing of things :shrug:


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: Theman]
    #824581 - 03/10/17 08:43 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Theman said:

Lol ur making a case not to use soil now?? Dont ammend ur soil guys.haha 
For newbs maybe but when u know plants u def want ro add things as needed to ur soil or xhange ur mix etc.  Anyway, trust3d newb :wink:





Most people who just buy a bag of "hot" soil don't know what to do with it other than stick a plant in it. At this point the OP can't amend the soil because there is a plant in there. He can only feed it. If he feeds said "hot" soil too early he's going to mess with the nutrients in the root zone that are readily available.

I never said you shouldn't feed your plants or not to use soil, just that foliar sprays are good for when you are uncertain of the nutrient content of your soil and you don't want to feed.

Stick around the forums for awhile and you'll see that the bulk majority of soil growers just expected to buy a bag of soil and call it good, maybe feeding at the end like they had heard. 

I stick with my original assessment. Humic acid and microbes to boost nutrient availability.


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“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Re: Indoor 600W HID Soil Medibud From Seed - Winter/Spring 2017 [Re: phychotron]
    #824878 - 03/17/17 11:19 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Week 5:

Well, the advice worked out really nicely. The combination of bigger pots, a foliar spray with a little nitrogen, and a healthy root feeding at their last watering has really perked them up!



The are also recovering well from their topping last week. You can really see the side branches starting to develop. They are definitely ready for another watering, and I'm planning on doing another foliar spray tomorrow morning.

I'll probably start spreading out those branches next week, I only want another few inches of height before I start spreading them out into a screen.

:pipesmoke:


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