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 I_AM_SWIM
Someone Who Isn't McKenna
Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1,337
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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 Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN   4
#588079 - 09/22/11 07:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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(Reuters) - An international team of scientists has recorded neutrino particles travelling
faster than the speed of light, a spokesman for the researchers said on Thursday -- in what
could be a challenge to one of the fundamental rules of physics.
Antonio Ereditato, who works at the CERN particle physics centre on the Franco-Swiss border,
told Reuters that measurements over three years showed the neutrinos moving 60 nanoseconds
quicker than light over a distance of 730 km between Geneva and Gran Sasso, Italy.
"We have high confidence in our results. But we need other colleagues to do their tests and
confirm them," he said.
If confirmed, the discovery would overturn a key part of Albert Einstein's 1905 theory of
special relativity, which says that nothing in the universe can travel faster than light.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/22/science-light-idUSL5E7KM3UU20110922
Take that, Einstein!
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 drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: I_AM_SWIM]
#588097 - 09/22/11 08:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would be curious to know:
1) How exactly you measure something traveling faster than the speed of light
2) How the recorded difference in speed is considered significant in relation to possible sources of error. Although I am not aware of the precision of their instruments, that still seems like an awfully small difference in time over such a great distance.
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King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends
Edited by drawde (09/22/11 09:02 PM)
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CosmicFool
Psychoholic
Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1,634
Loc: 203 
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: drawde]
#588099 - 09/22/11 09:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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As far as I can tell,
you probably don't measure the particle itself but instead its "sonic boom" or shock wave of Cherenkov radiation
also I believe Einstein's theory stats that particles with mass cannot be accelerated past the speed of light
Tachyons have long been theorized to exist
and the universe also travels faster then light
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: drawde]
#588115 - 09/22/11 11:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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drawde said:
over such a great distance.
You should realize that at light speed 730km is absolutely tiny. I bet the entire trip only took about 100 nanoseconds. That would be like saying there was a 3 second difference in you and I walking across a room. 3 seconds isn't much, but when the whole trip is only 10 seconds long it's a significant variation.
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NobodyImportant
Science Is Subculture
Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 4,981
Loc: Jawjuh.
Last seen: 13 years, 28 days
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: drawde]
#588117 - 09/22/11 11:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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drawde said:
I would be curious to know:
1) How exactly you measure something traveling faster than the speed of light
2) How the recorded difference in speed is considered significant in relation to possible sources of error. Although I am not aware of the precision of their instruments, that still seems like an awfully small difference in time over such a great distance.
1. the time it leaves a point to the time it reaches a point
2. their margin of error was 10 ns, particle arrived 60 or something ns before light would have
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Glass By: US Tubes, ZOB, Roor.de, Sheldon Black, Jerome Baker, Medicali, Kennaroo, Sand, Alex K, Local and Unknown Artists
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RasJeph
Psycho Pete
Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 11,657
Loc: Bumfuckt Egypt
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: I_AM_SWIM]
#588146 - 09/23/11 06:01 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I love when stuff happens that challenges old theories. Neat!
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Of course it's happening inside your head.
Why should that mean it isn't real?
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,758
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 3 days, 13 hours
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: RasJeph]
#588157 - 09/23/11 07:46 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was told about this yesterday, I was sad when I didn't get to post it. 
And yea, when I heard my mom was like "OMG SOMETHING MOVES FASTER THEN LIGHT!" "...Oh? Tachyons?"
Then she tried to say neutrinos and couldn't say it (not that i blame her since she has trouble with a lot of words since she was in a coma a few years back) but i was thoroughly annoyed i didn't know what I was hearing.
I assumed she meant neutrons or something, but i see i was wrong (I was curious about how the largest part of an atom moved that fast anyways, but with me having yet to take a physics class ever I didn't even pretend to know anything other than what I learned in Chem II).
Pretty cool though.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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Dr. Siekadellyk
Question Everything!
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 9,368
Loc: Ketamine
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
#588159 - 09/23/11 07:58 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Interesting, I'd like to hear moar about this.
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The Kratom Report...
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,758
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 3 days, 13 hours
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: Dr. Siekadellyk]
#588161 - 09/23/11 08:02 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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The real question is do these faster than light particles also black Dr. Manhattans foresight or can on tachyons do that?
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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DungenessDank
Lord of the Flies
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 9,372
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 13 years, 7 hours
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
#588171 - 09/23/11 08:54 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Confirmation by frustration. There is a 99% chance someone will find a problem in their work, and they know it, they just can't figure it out.
If by a crazy chance it can be confirmed, HUZZAH SCIENCE!
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,758
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 3 days, 13 hours
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: DungenessDank]
#588172 - 09/23/11 08:59 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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DungenessDank said:
Confirmation by frustration. There is a 99% chance someone will find a problem in their work, and they know it, they just can't figure it out.
If by a crazy chance it can be confirmed, HUZZAH SCIENCE!
You mean the problem they have been trying to explain for 3 years and have yet to find? 
I understand it's possible it will be proven wrong. I only wanted to reiterate that this wasn't a test or two they ran that showed this, it was the result of 3 years of testing (which i presume is only a hand full of tests).
I'm not really trying to be argumentative, it's just the way this post is sounding in my head so i feel i would mention that.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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DungenessDank
Lord of the Flies
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 9,372
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 13 years, 7 hours
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
#588174 - 09/23/11 09:37 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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3 years is nothing in the realm of science, what would you do? Spend the rest of your days at CERN working to disprove something you think has to be invalid, or work 3 years, and give the work to the rest of the world to disprove?
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,758
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 3 days, 13 hours
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: DungenessDank]
#588179 - 09/23/11 09:43 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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DungenessDank said:
3 years is nothing in the realm of science, what would you do? Spend the rest of your days at CERN working to disprove something you think has to be invalid, or work 3 years, and give the work to the rest of the world to disprove?
As per the scientific method it's kind of normal required to make sure other people can replicate your results if you want them to be thought of as a fact (or is the word I'm thinking of theory?).
I know i have google and all but i don't have much time left on the computer and I'm busy working on my DnD character.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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DungenessDank
Lord of the Flies
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 9,372
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 13 years, 7 hours
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
#588182 - 09/23/11 09:50 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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That is the point I'm trying to make, but you seem to be missing. If it can't be confirmed by anyone else, than no particles have been yet to be found that travel faster than the speed of light.
I remember a few months ago someone claimed they had detected the Higgs-Boson, and the media blew it out of proportion before it was ever confirmed, which it never was.
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: DungenessDank]
#588192 - 09/23/11 10:03 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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However inconclusive this article is, it is interesting nonetheless. 
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drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#588224 - 09/23/11 12:51 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Harry_Ba11sach said:
drawde said:
over such a great distance.
You should realize that at light speed 730km is absolutely tiny. I bet the entire trip only took about 100 nanoseconds. That would be like saying there was a 3 second difference in you and I walking across a room. 3 seconds isn't much, but when the whole trip is only 10 seconds long it's a significant variation.
Thanks for the clarification.
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King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends
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CosmicFool
Psychoholic
Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1,634
Loc: 203
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
#588269 - 09/23/11 05:26 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thebooedocksaint said:
The real question is do these faster than light particles also black Dr. Manhattans foresight or can on tachyons do that?
I'm not familiar with Dr. Manhattan..
Tachyons are only hypothetical particles so they've never been confirmed
but they do fit into some areas of science which means there are already people working on the issues these types of particles will cause for the rest of the scientific community
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,758
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 3 days, 13 hours
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: CosmicFool]
#588420 - 09/24/11 12:31 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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CosmicFool said:
Thebooedocksaint said:
The real question is do these faster than light particles also black Dr. Manhattans foresight or can on tachyons do that?
I'm not familiar with Dr. Manhattan..
Tachyons are only hypothetical particles so they've never been confirmed
but they do fit into some areas of science which means there are already people working on the issues these types of particles will cause for the rest of the scientific community
You're acting like I don't know tachyons are hypothetical?
Also you need to go read/watch the watchmen RIGHT NOW.
Then you will understand who Dr. Manhattan is and how he helped us win the Vietnam war.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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Krackatus
Vapehead
Registered: 06/29/10
Posts: 177
Loc: UK 
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
#588456 - 09/24/11 02:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm very skeptical, but if this is true/possible then it only shows how limited our knowledge of the universe is.
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"Cannabis is not a health problem. The problem is that it promotes social values and attitudes which are unwelcome in capitalist market based society. It's just that simple." - Terence McKenna
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I_AM_SWIM
Someone Who Isn't McKenna
Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1,337
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Particles recorded moving faster than light - CERN [Re: Krackatus]
#588523 - 09/24/11 09:17 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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