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InvisibleInverted
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CHECK THIS OUT!
    #54596 - 06/10/08 03:05 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Hey take a look at this guy, all 20 of these are the same strain (stretched a lot I know) but this one for some reason has mutated into a triplet!  We had a week of straight storms and cloudy weather, Im strongly hoping for sun! :smile:

What is the meaning of this and will it continue throughout the life of the plant? If so i believe I might have a bushy beauty on my hands and a good luck charm


WTF????



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OfflineTheMantis
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Inverted]
    #54610 - 06/10/08 04:02 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Make that one your mom! And give a clone to each of your friends. :scottish:


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OfflineSirius
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Inverted]
    #54653 - 06/10/08 09:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inverted said:
What is the meaning of this and will it continue throughout the life of the plant?




The little baby mutant should keep producing three leaves per stem, and it should also start producing three branches per node. You should have better yields with it. :wink:


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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Sirius]
    #54713 - 06/10/08 12:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Once its begins to flower the triplet feature will go away, your yield will not likely be any greater.


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OfflineSirius
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: erb]
    #54857 - 06/10/08 06:05 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

erb said:
Once its begins to flower the triplet feature will go away, your yield will not likely be any greater.





Actually if he gets three branches per node instead of two (which might happen), he'll subsequently have more bud-sites, thus, potentially grater yield. Also, the statement "once it begins to flower it will go away" isn't really true. Sometimes this will stop after the third or fourth node, or when it starts reaching maturity and starts alternate nodes it will disappear. In fact, I've seen someone with a mutant like this have it three weeks into flower, 12/12 lighting of course, and it took forever to begin flowering and was still producing three leaves per node.

From what I've read, the idea is that these plants usually are male, but not always, so hopefully we'll get lucky here. They might grow slower too, but I'd personally keep them going to see what happens.

Also, the name for this is whorled phyllotaxy. :grin:


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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Sirius]
    #54886 - 06/10/08 07:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

More bud sites won't always mean greater yield if the roots system isnt also larger to support it.
Once your nodes start alternating it will go away.
It's generally associated with sativa strains, that could explain your friends problems with trying to get it to flower.
But you never know, each plant is a unique individual, only by growing it out will you start to understand it.


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OfflineSirius
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: erb]
    #55304 - 06/11/08 06:13 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

erb said:
More bud sites won't always mean greater yield if the roots system isnt also larger to support it.




Well, I did say potentially greater yields, but I don't see what the size of the root system has to do with it. People who have grown the whorled plants have stated that it requires more water and nutrients. Really, the root size is regardless as long as they are being fed and watered more to compensate for the fact that they have more plant/buds to support.

Quote:


Once your nodes start alternating it will go away.




Or not, it could go away before the nodes start alternating or after that or not at all. I don't believe there's a set manner in which this mutation manifests.

Quote:


It's generally associated with sativa strains, that could explain your friends problems with trying to get it to flower.




Could be, it was bagseed (wasn't a friend), but it doesn't fit in with your statement regarding it disappearing after alternate nodes sets in. The plant had been in flowering for weeks and had, of course, developed pistils and everything, so it was way beyond that point in time and still producing sets of three...


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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: erb]
    #55359 - 06/11/08 09:06 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

erb said:
You never know, each plant is a unique individual, only by growing it out will you start to understand it.





If and when it alternates, it has to go away..its one or the other.





Edited by erb (06/11/08 09:12 AM)


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OfflineSirius
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: erb]
    #55429 - 06/11/08 11:55 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I haven't found any information that says it will necessarily go away if alternate nodes begin, but I have seen three times now where alternate nodes just didn't happen. Like you've said, what actually happens for the only plant will only be known when it grows out, but there is definitely no rule that states it will go away when it enters flowering or that alternate nodes will occur. It could stop after the cotyledons, after the first leaves, after the third/fourth node, when it converts to alternate nodes, never.... It may or may not yield better, and will probably be a male.


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OfflineHanky
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Sirius]
    #55432 - 06/11/08 12:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sirius said:


but I don't see what the size of the root system has to do with it. People who have grown the whorled plants have stated that it requires more water and nutrients. Really, the root size is regardless as long as they are being fed and watered more to compensate for the fact that they have more plant/buds to support.






Root mass is directly proportionate to yield, the larger the root mass the larger the yield.


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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Sirius]
    #55433 - 06/11/08 12:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Ive had this happen with widows before, and they did turn out to be males.:thumbup:


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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Hanky]
    #55447 - 06/11/08 12:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hanky said:
Quote:

Sirius said:


but I don't see what the size of the root system has to do with it. People who have grown the whorled plants have stated that it requires more water and nutrients. Really, the root size is regardless as long as they are being fed and watered more to compensate for the fact that they have more plant/buds to support.






Root mass is directly proportionate to yield, the larger the root mass the larger the yield.  This applies to soil, hydro, aero, agro or any other kind of ponics.




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OfflineSirius
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Hanky]
    #55586 - 06/11/08 03:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hanky said:
Root mass is directly proportionate to yield, the larger the root mass the larger the yield.  This applies to soil, hydro, aero, agro or any other kind of ponics.




Yes, this may be, but within the context of what I was saying, you will theoretically get a better yield from the mutant plant compared to a similar but regular plant in the same size pot because the mutant will simply use more nutrients and water in the same amount of time, since its producing extra buds (as we're assuming it has more branches than the other). It'd, again theoretically, use the same amount of water and nutrients to produce the same amount of buds as the other, plus more water/nutrients for the extra. Clearly if the other normal plant had a lot more space for roots, it'd be capable of producing more than it would otherwise, but we're talking a comparison here. :wink:


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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Sirius]
    #55608 - 06/11/08 03:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Although you may have more bud sites, there will only be a certain amount of light to divide between them, indoors.
Also there will be more shading from the bud sites. resulting in other areas of the plant not getting the full amount of light.
weak light penetration means weaker buds.

this is why i do not top my plants, and keep them very small.


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OfflineSirius
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: erb]
    #55611 - 06/11/08 03:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

erb said:
Although you may have more bud sites, there will only be a certain amount of light to divide between them, indoors.
Also there will be more shading from the bud sites. resulting in other areas of the plant not getting the full amount of light.
weak light penetration means weaker buds.




This is all true, which is why I was speaking theoretically, referring only to the roots factor at the time. :wink: It would all just depend on the specifics of one's setup. There can still be plenty of light and if shading really was a problem, training could be employed to maximize yield as well.

All in all, we're talking about a mutant that could have slower growth and development entirely for its own reasons, even if it was a female. Ultimately, its just a freak that could perform slightly better or worse. :lol:


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OfflineHanky
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Sirius]
    #55625 - 06/11/08 04:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sirius said:
Quote:

Hanky said:
Root mass is directly proportionate to yield, the larger the root mass the larger the yield.  This applies to soil, hydro, aero, agro or any other kind of ponics.




Yes, this may be, but within the context of what I was saying, you will theoretically get a better yield from the mutant plant compared to a similar but regular plant in the same size pot because the mutant will simply use more nutrients and water in the same amount of time, since its producing extra buds (as we're assuming it has more branches than the other). It'd, again theoretically, use the same amount of water and nutrients to produce the same amount of buds as the other, plus more water/nutrients for the extra. Clearly if the other normal plant had a lot more space for roots, it'd be capable of producing more than it would otherwise, but we're talking a comparison here. :wink:





Given the same amount of root space the mutant will only produce the same as a normal plant.  The roots sytems being of similar size due to space restraints can only take up so much water/nutes.  The mutant  won't have mutant super roots capable of more water/nute uptake than a regular plant.


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OfflineSirius
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Hanky]
    #56129 - 06/12/08 01:01 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You're right. :thumbup: Did some reading on this beyond the uninformed opinions I've seen around other forums and realized that the plant does not actively take water through the roots, but rather that it occurs like a wick, due to suction and mostly decided by the rate at which water perspires from the leaves into the air. I had originally thought it would have been determined by the biological processes of the plant and their subsequent need. Sweet, thanks! :headbang:


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InvisibleInverted
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Sirius]
    #56176 - 06/12/08 05:53 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for the reading guys! Heh well compared to the rest of the bunch it is slightly behind but there are normal seedlings at the same stage so I cant say the mutation is the cause it just peeked its head above the soil a little later.  It seems to be developing just fine.  I have a feeling that the mutation will continue through alternating nodes. Last time I had a plant look similar to this at this point, It ended up topping itself in a way, from the ground to an inch high it was a single stem, then split into 3 main stems from there. was a beauty! it would have yielded more but ended up being a big bushy MALE!!! So I'll keep you posted and keep taking pics to show you the progress of this little fellow as well as the rest of my green army


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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Inverted]
    #56177 - 06/12/08 05:57 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I actually believe based on my common sense that since it started out with 50% more leaves/surface area, that technically it will be able to get a head start on the other seedlings since it will be able to soak up more light than the others it will develop the next set(s) of leaves quicker and it exponentially grows more and more...  Correct me if I'm wrong?!


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OfflineSirius
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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Inverted]
    #56185 - 06/12/08 07:43 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inverted said:
I actually believe based on my common sense that since it started out with 50% more leaves/surface area, that technically it will be able to get a head start on the other seedlings since it will be able to soak up more light than the others it will develop the next set(s) of leaves quicker and it exponentially grows more and more...  Correct me if I'm wrong?!




I'm not really certain on any of this, although I'm taking more time now to read up on the biological processes involved, but I would think that the water/nutrients would still be a limiting factor, even if the plant were capable of performing a greater degree of photosynthesis since it can absorb more light. Maybe the mutant would grow roots quicker as a result of that, but if not given more space, it would still reach that limiting factor, even if it grew faster initially...

:shrug: But this has certainly been a fun discussion. :lol:


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Re: CHECK THIS OUT! [Re: Sirius]
    #56226 - 06/12/08 11:34 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

the plant does not actively take water through the roots, but rather that it occurs like a wick, due to suction




Which is why it's essential to produce nice, thick, main stalks.  The thicker your main stem is the more water/nutrients it can uptake and distribute.  This leads to bigger and more potent buds.


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InvisibleInverted
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Update [Re: coda]
    #59768 - 06/18/08 02:52 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Just an update for you guys on my mutant baby!  It has continued on its tri-way growth and has 3 single lamina, and the next set coming out is tri-3 lamina leafs so I believe this pattern may continue as with a normal cannabis plant but in a triangle formation instead of the standard bi-angle. Not to suprising to me though, it has actually been growing slightly faster then the other seedlings of the same birth date. something inside tells me that this may abruptly stop when alternating nodes begin but another side says it may just begin a very random pattern when it reaches that point in it's maturity and become more bushy than normal without topping. but guess what guys when she gets a little bigger I am going to top her.

FYI I actually had another seedling show this same attribute a couple days ago so this strain must be prone to this mutation...?


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Edited by Inverted (06/18/08 02:55 AM)


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Re: Update [Re: Inverted]
    #59883 - 06/18/08 11:14 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

how do you know its a her?


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Re: Update [Re: erb]
    #59980 - 06/18/08 02:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

shhhhh all seedlings are female until they tell you other wise :wink: :laugh:

Quote:

Not to suprising to me though, it has actually been growing slightly faster then the other seedlings of the same birth date. something inside tells me that this may abruptly stop




I'd snip a clone if i were you at some point before flowering.  Fast growth is a pretty desirable trait.  Sounds like things are going well though, get some pics up if you can!


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Re: Update [Re: coda]
    #60725 - 06/19/08 02:47 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:
shhhhh all seedlings are female until they tell you other wise :wink: :laugh:

Quote:

Not to suprising to me though, it has actually been growing slightly faster then the other seedlings of the same birth date. something inside tells me that this may abruptly stop




I'd snip a clone if i were you at some point before flowering.  Fast growth is a pretty desirable trait.  Sounds like things are going well though, get some pics up if you can!



Hehe exactly...And i've have very good luck with fem's in the past so im thinking the glass is half full.  Well i got a couple pics, I actually lightly burned my seedlings I accidentally put too much root stimulator in my nute mix and burned them which kinda slowed down the growth for a couple days but looks like it is startin to develop once again which makes me happy, heres a pic!













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