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Offlinejkell
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Whats your opinion?
    #525621 - 02/10/11 04:55 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

On court cases that involve murder, where the defense enters a plea of insanity?

I don't have a complex understanding of the human mind but I know some.

I feel kinda torn on the issue but if I needed to decide I'd probably go with the murder charge and prison time, than the insanity ward. Of course there are individual factors in each case that make or break it, like premeditation, relation to victim, etc.

How do you guys feel about the issue?

I ask because I just saw a tv show about a court case were a daughter kills her mother, and then planned to kill her father once he got home from church, then drive to school the next day and kill her ex-boyfriend.


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InvisibleFarBeyondDriven
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: jkell]
    #525622 - 02/10/11 04:59 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Tough one.

I think if she's of sound enough mind to do all that.  Plan to kill mom, plan to kill dad, then drive to school, she knew what she was doing.  And if they are that insane, then they need to go away anyway. :shrug:

Either way, put them away or fry them I say.


--------------------



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Offlinejkell
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: FarBeyondDriven]
    #525623 - 02/10/11 05:07 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Shit I didn't even notice my 420th post :feelsbadman:

But yeah thats what the jury though too after one mistrial. She got 34 years in a Florida prison. And I feel like thats what I woulda went with. It makes you wonder though because 2 months after her sentencing she addressed friends and family in the courtroom and either put on a really good act or was truly sorry. Idk makes my brain wanna explode. Haven't had jury duty yet but once I do I hope it's not a case like this...hopefully its a marijuana "Manufacturing" charge :awehigh:


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OfflineSir Smokes A-Lot
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: jkell]
    #525624 - 02/10/11 05:19 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

jkell said:
I ask because I just saw a tv show about a court case were a daughter kills her mother, and then planned to kill her father once he got home from church, then drive to school the next day and kill her ex-boyfriend.



Wow :lol:

My opinion on "insanity" is this:

As Terence McKenna says in his Schizophrenic or Shamanic Youtube vid, people who are "insane" or "schizophrenic" actually have a shamanic gift.

Our dumb-as culture just labels those people "insane" so they can be locked away so the status quo can be maintained.

Everyone's different. And "insane" people are just more different. They can be very insightful in certain areas. An extreme example is savants.

We can all learn from each other so it's important "insane" people are not treated differently.

As for pleading "insanity" in a murder trial, sure, why not. Those people should get treatment not go to jail though. Jail may make them much worse


--------------------
"Everybody seems to think I'm lazy
I don't mind, I think they're crazy
Running everywhere at such a speed
Till they find, there's no need"
Beatles song


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Offlinejkell
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Sir Smokes A-Lot]
    #525629 - 02/10/11 07:03 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sir Smokes A-Lot said:
Quote:

jkell said:
I ask because I just saw a tv show about a court case were a daughter kills her mother, and then planned to kill her father once he got home from church, then drive to school the next day and kill her ex-boyfriend.



Wow :lol:

My opinion on "insanity" is this:

As Terence McKenna says in his Schizophrenic or Shamanic Youtube vid, people who are "insane" or "schizophrenic" actually have a shamanic gift.

Our dumb-as culture just labels those people "insane" so they can be locked away so the status quo can be maintained.

Everyone's different. And "insane" people are just more different. They can be very insightful in certain areas. An extreme example is savants.

We can all learn from each other so it's important "insane" people are not treated differently.

As for pleading "insanity" in a murder trial, sure, why not. Those people should get treatment not go to jail though. Jail may make them much worse




hmm not sure I agree with your definition of insanity in this case. Yes insanity is a derangement of the mind, but to plead insanity in a trial many different criterion must be met, most of which are hard to achieve. Genius seems like it fits your definition a bit better. And yes savants are very interesting but I wouldn't call them insane. Genius, yes. insane, no.

And are you saying that the girl that murdered her mother and planned on killing two more people has some sort of shamanic gift that us mere mortals can't understand? In that case is everyone that enters an insanity plea basically saying "A higher power told me to do it for reasons unknown to anyone on this earth" because all insane people have tapped into a special gift?


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: jkell]
    #525666 - 02/10/11 09:14 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Shamanic gift or not I am for capital punishment as long as it is clear that the person committed murder or some sort of torturous act against another.  I believe in cleaning up the gene pool and lessening the tax burden.


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Sir Smokes A-Lot]
    #525674 - 02/10/11 09:48 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sir Smokes A-Lot said:
Quote:

jkell said:
I ask because I just saw a tv show about a court case were a daughter kills her mother, and then planned to kill her father once he got home from church, then drive to school the next day and kill her ex-boyfriend.



Wow :lol:

My opinion on "insanity" is this:

As Terence McKenna says in his Schizophrenic or Shamanic Youtube vid, people who are "insane" or "schizophrenic" actually have a shamanic gift.

Our dumb-as culture just labels those people "insane" so they can be locked away so the status quo can be maintained.

Everyone's different. And "insane" people are just more different. They can be very insightful in certain areas. An extreme example is savants.

We can all learn from each other so it's important "insane" people are not treated differently.

As for pleading "insanity" in a murder trial, sure, why not. Those people should get treatment not go to jail though. Jail may make them much worse




If you knew the slightest about schizophrenia you would know it's no gift for the people who suffer from it.  Having dozens of different voices, all telling you you're worthless, you should kill yourself, loud enough to create a deafening roar, loud enough where you can't hear yourself think. This is a great example where open mindedness should take the form of doubt in such a pseudo-scientific theory. Really I don't even think it deserves that label.

Savants often have great gifts in some areas but would in most cases score very-low iq scores,  the autistic savants if you will.  Very few function normally otherwise.

Insanity is a valid plea.  Mental health is no different than any other heath problem.  Should we just start killing terminal cancer patients as they're diagnosed?  Their odds are likely to die, we're only wasting money to push back the death date.  If it can be proven that the person either didn't understand what they were doing or the consequences then insanity can be a valid plea in some cases.  Premeditation, cleaning up evidence are usually ways to dismiss insanity pleas but every case is different.


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


Edited by THEBats (02/10/11 10:03 AM)


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Offlinejkell
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: THEBats]
    #525678 - 02/10/11 10:13 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
Should we just start killing terminal cancer patients as they're diagnosed?  Their odds are likely to die, we're only wasting money to push back the death date.


 

Yeah but the cancer patients haven't killed someone.

But yes otherwise I agree there are times when an insanity plea is the right option.


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: jkell]
    #525681 - 02/10/11 10:25 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

While that's true, an eye for an eye only works if the person had eyes to begin with.

"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind."  Gandhi

Or something like that.  Not that I don't agree with the death penalty.  Idk I think in someways life imprisonment is a worse sentence.  Also in some cases executing the death penalty is actually quite expensive, more so than housing the inmate, as you can use the inmate for work detail ect.


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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OfflineDRAGON
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: jkell]
    #525684 - 02/10/11 10:27 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Hmmmm I remember reading somewhere it's almost impossible to get away with the insanity plea cause of some case back in the early 80's. Don't know if this is true or not though.

Anyways I've always though of that plea as the same theme in comic book mythos. For example when a super villain (a genius that has a twisted perspective of some sort) does horrendous acts on society but just gets sent to a psychward or prison. If this happened every time to anyone that was deemed with the excuse that they're victims of their minds. Then I honestly believe at least by now. That they're would be lot more monsters in our society creating as much chaos as possible. Why don't guys like the Joker exist? And if they do what's stopping them? Or maybe they do and our governments are just so darn good at their job. They prevent such monsters from truly ever causing irreputable damage to society as a whole. Who the hell knows

However I also believe though that it's a valid plea. Like THEBats said "Savants often have great gifts in some areas but would in most cases score very-low iq scores,  the autistic savants if you will.  Very few function normally otherwise."

It's all specific to the individual and case at hand. It's not feasible to have a general rule for this subject. Any case that has to do with mental health should be taken with highest precaution and a true open mind.

It's a plea that needs to undoubtedly be proven true. Or else you're just letting everyone and anyone get away with what they want.


--------------------
"I know that I know nothing"


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Offlinekyuzo
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: CrayolaHalls]
    #525687 - 02/10/11 10:32 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CrayolaHalls said:
Shamanic gift or not I am for capital punishment as long as it is clear that the person committed murder or some sort of torturous act against another.  I believe in cleaning up the gene pool and lessening the tax burden.




I think the state makes too many mistakes to adequately make such a decision.  And it actually costs more to execute someone, than it does to just lock them up for life.


Edited by kyuzo (02/10/11 10:33 AM)


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Offlinejkell
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: THEBats]
    #525690 - 02/10/11 10:47 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
While that's true, an eye for an eye only works if the person had eyes to begin with.





Yes but whether that person has eyes to begin with is in the eye's of the beholder. :rofl:


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Offlinekyuzo
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: THEBats]
    #525691 - 02/10/11 10:49 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:If you knew the slightest about schizophrenia you would know it's no gift for the people who suffer from it.  Having dozens of different voices, all telling you you're worthless, you should kill yourself, loud enough to create a deafening roar, loud enough where you can't hear yourself think.




  Maybe it was "growing up in new Guinea", but in one of her books Margaret Mead talks about how maladaptive traits are mostly defined by cultural values, than actual objective criteria.  So while it's true that in both cases one wouldn't consider schizophrenia a gift, in one instance the schizophrenic would be seen as fulfilling some fundamental function within the society.

Though this function seems to be solely a product of ignorance


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: kyuzo]
    #525692 - 02/10/11 10:52 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Schizophrenia also isn't one disorder though, but a group of schizophrenia's.  A paranoid schizophrenic may be able to communicate just fine, not experience the word salad, but they think they own a space ship, or gas is being pumped through their vents. 


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


Edited by THEBats (02/10/11 10:54 AM)


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OfflineShaggy420
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: THEBats]
    #525749 - 02/10/11 03:16 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

if you dribble, eat your own shit and make whale noises then you should plea for insanity.:thumbup:

but people shouldnt be granted insanity just because they're a little bit mental, a killer is a killer:shrug:


--------------------

:Awemush::happyweed::fasted::happyweed::Awemush:


http://www.clear-uk.org/


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: kyuzo]
    #525771 - 02/10/11 04:14 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kyuzo said:
Quote:

CrayolaHalls said:
Shamanic gift or not I am for capital punishment as long as it is clear that the person committed murder or some sort of torturous act against another.  I believe in cleaning up the gene pool and lessening the tax burden.





I think the state makes too many mistakes to adequately make such a decision.  And it actually costs more to execute someone, than it does to just lock them up for life.




The effort needs to be streamlined then to make it cheaper.  I am not looking at this as an "eye for an eye" kind of thing.  I am saying that if someone fucks up that bad then they need to be euthanized so society can move on to more important things.  I really don't care if the guilty party suffers or if they would prefer death penalty, I just want to get them out of the way.


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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