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Offlineerb
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: Sirius]
    #45742 - 06/01/08 08:09 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks!
To bad its cluttered with a bunch of crap.:2girls1cup:


Edited by erb (06/01/08 08:46 AM)


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: erb]
    #47797 - 06/01/08 01:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

did you really just bump this thread to say that?

I find it especially humorous as you're the one who was wrong.


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Offlineerb
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #47800 - 06/01/08 01:14 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Your dense..no i wasnt.



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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: erb]
    #47817 - 06/01/08 01:54 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'm dense? Everything said by Yrat was correct, and instead of posting supporting information you simply continued to repeat the same tired phrase, which wasn't even correct.

Until you actually say something with some substance (and cite your source) you're the one who looks the fool.


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OfflineMFDoom666
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #47845 - 06/01/08 03:06 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

yrat pwned.

:whoyougonnacall:


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FurrowedBrow said:

They should teach african engineering at the college level.  mcgyver 101

Harry_Ba11sach said:

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?


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Offlinem3kgt
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #48627 - 06/02/08 06:57 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:

Until you actually say something with some substance (and cite your source) you're the one who looks the fool.



The first post was partially pasted from some info thats been floating around other grow forums. rollitup and grasscity to be exact.

The second post about photosynthesis and dark periods is strait off http://www.thefreedictionary.com/photosynthesis

Not that its bad that you are passing on knowledge to other members but think twice to argue about a subject that someone has actually studied and is correcting you.


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Offlineerb
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: m3kgt]
    #48747 - 06/02/08 11:06 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i copied some of it from my others posts under the same screenname (erb) at rollitup as well as from other posts i have made on the subject.I did not plagiarize anyone.
some of the scientific info is not mine but gathered from other sources.
the second part on photosynthesis is of course not mine.

My point was, its really saying the same thing in two different ways, semantics.
I really wasnt trying to cause a big problem, just felt it was nitpicking.
peace


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OfflineWarpainted
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: erb]
    #123048 - 09/16/08 05:06 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not going to lie, I have no clue what the debate part of this thread was about.

So question: Does the plant use co2 during light, and oxygen during dark? 

If you are doing 18/6, would it be better to adjust ppm lower about .5 hour before the 6 hour dark period to allow more oxygen during dark periods?

Then raise it when the lights come back on?

Is there any benefit, other than keeping roots colder, to the dark periods?

Thanks


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OfflineYrat
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: Warpainted]
    #123075 - 09/16/08 07:52 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

the plants will always use oxygen, as oxygen is used to break down carbohydrates for energy, the same reason we need it.  the plant is constantly growing and needing energy in both the dark and the light, so oxygen is taken in constantly.  most CO2 is used mainly in the light, when there is photosynthetic energy to build carbohydrates from it (which will later be used as energy to grow).  this process requires that energy from the light to work.  As soon as it gets dark, the whole system really just shuts off after reserves of ATP and NADPH wind down.


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"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: Yrat]
    #123372 - 09/17/08 10:48 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Wanna know how to solve this problem? Two grow rooms the same strain in each. One under 24hrs one 18hrs.

Now myself I did this and like the reaction of 18/6. Then again this can also be strain related. There are strains like Mikado aka Sweet Pink Grapefruit that after a few months will start to flower even under the 18/6 but not under the 24hrs of light. This can be a real problem if you have a strain you don't wanna loose.

I love all the scientific talk and all but I'm a side by side and see for myself which works better kind of guy. Been doing it like that since 85 and it seems to be working.




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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


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OfflineYrat
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: Magash]
    #123411 - 09/17/08 11:30 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
I'm a side by side and see for myself which works better kind of guy.





me too, such experiments are the essence of the scientific method.  there is no way to know which conditions are better other than doing a side-by-side with an unknown and a control.



that bogglegum is amazing.  absolutely amazing.


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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OfflineRustyShaklford


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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: Sirius]
    #125088 - 09/23/08 07:06 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

The very first post in this thread was informative. .  . As a newb, however, everything else might as well be said in some foreign language. I can't even remember 99% of the words used to describe,,,, something, without scrolling back up.


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OfflineDungenessDank
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: RustyShaklford]
    #125113 - 09/23/08 09:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I tend to side with Yrat on this issue, seems like he knows what hes talking about.

Personally what do I think? I think 20/4 is as good as or better than 24/0. I think the 4 hours of darkness has to do it some good, even if just letting the equipment cool down.


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Offlineerb
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: RustyShaklford]
    #127355 - 10/01/08 09:27 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

RustyShaklford said:
The very first post in this thread was informative. .  . As a newb, however, everything else might as well be said in some foreign language. I can't even remember 99% of the words used to describe,,,, something, without scrolling back up.




thank you!


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Offlinet0ad
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: Sirius]
    #128088 - 10/02/08 05:50 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

i've read that the stomata's on the underside of the leaves will automatically close after 18 hours, photosynthesis requires a light & dark period naturally.  18/6 FTW...

24hr period is just wasting electricity imho...


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OfflineSirius
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: t0ad]
    #128120 - 10/02/08 08:50 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

t0ad said:
i've read that the stomata's on the underside of the leaves will automatically close after 18 hours, photosynthesis requires a light & dark period naturally.  18/6 FTW...




If you have any source on that, it would be greatly appreciated...


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Offlinet0ad
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: Sirius]
    #128130 - 10/02/08 09:16 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

it was a botany text-book, it wasn't specific to Marijuana; but I have a firm belief in that.  It's natural and it's science.  I've never seen this "C4" "C3" plant types before. :tongue2:

haven't seen any proof that 24/0 is any better; like several said before that it comes down to a controlled scientific experiment, using clones so that the exact same plant should grow as evenly, and closely as possible and the variable would be the lighting.


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<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/hypnotoad.gif" alt="" />


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Offlinet0ad
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: t0ad]
    #128134 - 10/02/08 09:29 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

this pic below may help others understand what the original post was talking about.  .  . but still a firm believer in plants need darkness.  The Stomata's are what actually absorb energy for the plant; Naturally they open upon light sensation from darkness, though the plant doesn't require a dark period, when the stomatas close this causes the plant to submerse itself into a "dark period" -  it causes itself to stop making energy and to use it.  It's not the energizer bunny that can keep going and going... At one point, the plant stops making energy and uses what has been stored and does not require an absolute "lack of light/darkness" to close it's stomatas.  They look like tiny mouths underneath the leaves. . . Which is why hacking off some of the bigger fan leaves to get more light to the lower end does not help the plant anymore than finding a way to redirect light which is less stressful on the plant.


Here's a C3 Plant cycle (was kidding about above reference)



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<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/hypnotoad.gif" alt="" />


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OfflineYrat
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: t0ad]
    #128254 - 10/03/08 08:58 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

t0ad said:
The Stomata's are what actually absorb energy for the plant




the stomata do not absorb energy.  chlorophyll allows plants to absorb energy from light.  chlorophyll is contained in the thylakoid membranes of chloroplasts, which are subcellular organelles, while stomata are multicellular structures.  they allow for gaseous exchange across the surface of the leaves.  CO2 goes in, and O2 goes out, along with water vapor, the final destination for water drawn up through the roots.  There are many reasons for the opening and closing of stomata, including lack of water, and it gets complicated when starting to examine C3 plants.




i like how your figure supports everything i have said earlier in this thread.


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OfflineSirius
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Re: 18 vs 24 Hours of Light in the Vegative Cycle [Re: t0ad]
    #128257 - 10/03/08 09:29 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

t0ad said:
Naturally they open upon light sensation from darkness, though the plant doesn't require a dark period, when the stomatas close this causes the plant to submerse itself into a "dark period" -  it causes itself to stop making energy and to use it.  It's not the energizer bunny that can keep going and going... At one point, the plant stops making energy and uses what has been stored and does not require an absolute "lack of light/darkness" to close it's stomatas.




The stomata also can open during when it is dark due to the fact that the guard cells have an internal clock that is used in the absence of light. However, I haven't seen anything that suggests the stomata actually close simply because they've had more than a certain amount of hours of light. I also haven't seen any evidence to suggest that plants aren't "energizer bunnies" that keep going, going, and going with the production of energy. As long as all the internal and external cues are in place, then it makes sense that they are going to remain open for transpiration and the absorption of CO2 to take place. I'm still looking for more information on this, but in the meantime, I'd love to be pointed in the direction of something that says otherwise.


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