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Offlinegodspeedyou
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The Counterproductivity of Bongs
    #222966 - 05/04/09 10:01 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The study results are obviously discomforting to waterpipe enthusiasts, many of whom prefer the cooler, milder smoke they produce, and have naturally assumed it is also more healthful. Unfortunately, however, the study indicates that waterpipes may actually be counterproductive in increasing consumption of carcinogenic tars.




Marijuana Water Pipe and Vaporizer Study

It may be counter-intuitive to many, but joints appear to give the best ratio of thc to tar. Or of course, you could just vape. :vaped:


--------------------
Try to realize it's all within yourself
No-one else can make you change


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InvisibleBen18
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Registered: 04/22/08
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: godspeedyou]
    #222968 - 05/04/09 10:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

love to smoke my roches out the bong :bonghit:


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OfflineAKSE


Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 287
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: Ben18]
    #222992 - 05/04/09 11:04 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I'de still pick a bubbler or bong over a pipe or joint any day though!:yesnod:  Way easier on your lungs, not as harsh.  I'de like to see a more recent study done.  In a different post of that article, it showed the "wateripes" they tested, which were actually for the most part a glass jar with a straw coming out for a mouthpiece, with a crappy metal bown on the other end.


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: AKSE]
    #223000 - 05/04/09 11:20 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I don't care.  Bongs ftw!


--------------------
kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: AKSE]
    #223001 - 05/04/09 11:23 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

it doesn't really matter what they used in the study, read up on the interactions between polar molecules and solvents and you'll see that even in theory bongs are worse on your lungs in terms of tar


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OfflineAKSE


Registered: 08/13/08
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #223008 - 05/05/09 12:03 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I know about solvents and polarity.  THC is minutely soluable in water. apparently the same is true for tar as well.  The reason I said they should use up to date waterpipes, is because I would think that the length/size of the waterpipe would be a variable in tar intake.:shrug:


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OfflineMistaUNGA
green crack GREEN CRACK!!
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: Ben18]
    #223025 - 05/05/09 03:08 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:volcano:

:happyweed:


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I'm an electric smoker :gc:

ExplosiveMango said:
If everyone could do mushroom, yes, it would be a wonderful world. This will never be, only some can do mushrooms. It is the responsibility of those of us who see the world most clearly to pass the clarity on to those who cannot bare to wear our lenses.

Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: godspeedyou]
    #223031 - 05/05/09 03:30 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
I don't care.  Bongs ftw!




seriously. those studies are fail. the theory is there but there are too many other factors.

most people report getting higher off a bong. i know i feel like that. i probably do get more tar in my lungs since i inhale more deeply and hold it longer.

but i guarantee i get more thc smoking out of my bong than i would a pipe or joint. i doubt filtering it through water will take out as much thc as the smoke that doesn't go into my lungs (aka the smoke coming off the lit end of the joint or smoke coming off a bowl).

and you never get scoobies :hi5:


the machines they use are fail as well. read up more on it. there's a lot of information about them.


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: godspeedyou]
    #223032 - 05/05/09 03:34 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

on another note, i read a study one time about how filtering marijuana smoke makes it more healthy in other ways.

it was about a chronic marijuana user, a lady, who smoked only marijuana her whole life. now she didn't get cancer, but she developed a hole in her lungs. the doctors said if she had filtered it through water, she would have never developed the hole in her lungs. i forget the medical term for it. i really wish i could find this study... if anyone has seen it let me know it was in shroomery news withing the past few years... LOL


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: usg543]
    #223033 - 05/05/09 03:40 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

check out this study: it's about tobacco but it does use water pipes. tells about the humidity effecting things. someone tell me what it means. i read it the other day but couldn't figure it out.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p267639834706345/

Quote:

Abstract
Objective  Although extensive work has been done on cigarette smoking and its effects on pulmonary function, there are limited number of studies on water-pipe smoking. The effects of water-pipe smoking on health are not widely investigated. The aim of this study was to determine the effects of water-pipe smoking on pulmonary permeability.
Methods  Technetium-99m DTPA inhalation scintigraphy was performed on 14 water-pipe smoker volunteers (all men, mean age 53.7 ± 9.8) and 11 passive smoker volunteers (1 woman, 10 men, mean age 43.8 ± 12). Clearance half-time (T 1/2) was calculated by placing a monoexponential fit on the time activity curves. Penetration index (PI) of the radioaerosol was also calculated.
Results  PI was 0.58 ±0.14 and 0.50 ± 0.12 for water-pipe smokers (WPS) and passive smokers (PS) respectively. T1/2 of peripheral lung was 57.3 ± 12.7 and 64.6 ± 13.2 min, central airways was 55.8 ± 23.5 and 80.1 ± 35.2 min for WPS and PS, respectively (p ≤ 0.05). FEV1/FVC% was 82.1 ± 8.5 (%) and 87.7 ± 6.5 (%) for WPS and PS, respectively (0.025 < p ≤ 0.05).
Conclusions  We suggest that water-pipe smoking effects pulmonary epithelial permeability more than passive smoking. Increased central mucociliary clearance in water-pipe smoking may be due to preserved humidity of the airway tracts.




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Invisibleusg543
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: usg543]
    #223034 - 05/05/09 03:45 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

usg543 said:
on another note, i read a study one time about how filtering marijuana smoke makes it more healthy in other ways.

it was about a chronic marijuana user, a lady, who smoked only marijuana her whole life. now she didn't get cancer, but she developed a hole in her lungs. the doctors said if she had filtered it through water, she would have never developed the hole in her lungs. i forget the medical term for it. i really wish i could find this study... if anyone has seen it let me know it was in shroomery news withing the past few years... LOL




this isn't it, but i found what the article was talking about:

Formula: 0


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: usg543]
    #223035 - 05/05/09 03:48 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

that study is part of a larger article: http://www.neurophys.wisc.edu/~cozzi/maps4-4-93.html

or http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v04n2/04204mwp.html

it basically says water pipes are healthier.


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: usg543]
    #223038 - 05/05/09 04:00 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Formula: 0


pulmonary epithelial permeability - still don't know what this means.



Formula: 1

Quote:

Mucociliary Clearance, also referred to as mucociliary apparatus or mucociliar clearance (MCC) , derived from mucus , cilia (cilia of the tracheal surface epithelium in the respiratory tract ) and clearance describes the self-clearing mechanism of the bronchi.

The main bronchi down to the alveoli are lined with a respiratory epithelium. On that cilium is existent, bearing hair-shaped structures on its surface (cilia). The cilia are surrounded by a thin fluid film of mucus. On top of that is a second viscous film of mucus, in which foreign particles and microorganisms get stuck. Within the thin fluid film of mucus the cilia act out movements coordinated in direction towards the Pharynx. Thereby the viscous film of mucus including its freight is transported off in direction towards the mouth, where it is either swallowed or coughed off.

Important for good mucociliary clearance are the number of cilia, their structure, activity, and coordinated movement. Optimum functionality of mucociliary clearance presuppose a temperature of 37 °C and an absolute humidity of 44 mg/dm³ corresponding to a relative humidity of 100 %. Under the condition of insufficient temperature and humidity, after a short time the ciliary cells suspend their transport function. Under such circumstances, bacterial germinal colonization is facilitated. Pulmonary infections and damaging of the pulmonic tissues may be the consequence.

High humidity enhances the functionality of the mucociliary clearance. Two methods of supporting mucociliary clearance are the active and the passive respiratory gas humidification, which in particular are applied in mechanical ventilation.




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OfflineBig Chief
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Registered: 03/02/09
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: Ben18]
    #223099 - 05/05/09 01:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ben18 said:
love to smoke my roches out the bong :bonghit:




Me too, I save all the roaches in a pill bottle and wait until I'm out of pot to smoke them. They are great for packing in a bong.

I guess that's a plus 1 for bongs and joints eh? haha


--------------------
Big Chief, Big Buds, Big Pipe.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: usg543]
    #223110 - 05/05/09 02:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

usg543 said:
Quote:

THEBats said:
I don't care.  Bongs ftw!




seriously. those studies are fail. the theory is there but there are too many other factors.

most people report getting higher off a bong. i know i feel like that. i probably do get more tar in my lungs since i inhale more deeply and hold it longer.

but i guarantee i get more thc smoking out of my bong than i would a pipe or joint. i doubt filtering it through water will take out as much thc as the smoke that doesn't go into my lungs (aka the smoke coming off the lit end of the joint or smoke coming off a bowl).




You're completely missing the point though. They're not talking about total THC consumption, they're talking about ratios. you get more THC in a bong rip because the quantity of air in your lungs is increased, and the cooler smoke means you can breathe deeper and hold it for longer, but in this study they're only comparing the ratio of THC to tar, which is completely irrelevant to how high you get, but completely relevant to lung health.


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #223134 - 05/05/09 03:48 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:facepalm: i know you're intelligent by some of your posts, but really?

HB, i get what the study says. it only is measuring THC and tar. you think these are the only two issues related to lung health? you're wrong.

please read all the posts in the thread before making such an ignorant comment.

and besides, based on that one post, if you feel you get higher through a bong you might actually smoke less than you would have if you smoked a joint. wow did you ever think of that??? the study can't measure that! that means you could get less tar in the long run by smoking less material even though the ratio is higher. make sense? and the problem with that study is it is just ONE study. that's why i provided other studies. i provided another study that says it's more harmful and another saying its less harmful.

here is the one that talks about water pipes being healthier:

Quote:

usg543 said:
Quote:

usg543 said:
on another note, i read a study one time about how filtering marijuana smoke makes it more healthy in other ways.

it was about a chronic marijuana user, a lady, who smoked only marijuana her whole life. now she didn't get cancer, but she developed a hole in her lungs. the doctors said if she had filtered it through water, she would have never developed the hole in her lungs. i forget the medical term for it. i really wish i could find this study... if anyone has seen it let me know it was in shroomery news withing the past few years... LOL




this isn't it, but i found what the article was talking about:

Formula: 0





so you get less tar, but you get more toxic substances that hurt your immune system (that could simply be removed by smoking it through water). how is that any healthier? then it just becomes an opinion issue. do you value your immune system more, and smoke out of a bong, or do you value having 'tar-less' lungs? personally i'd rather have a healthier immune system and be less susceptible to diseases, because the tar in my lungs isn't hurting anyone. also there is another study up there that says the humidity you get through smoking out of a bong aids mucociliary clearance.

still just a few studies is still inconclusive. this is an area that lacks scientific research, naturally with our laws.


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Offlinegodspeedyou
to the face
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Registered: 05/29/08
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: usg543]
    #223153 - 05/05/09 04:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

usg543 said:
Quote:

usg543 said:
on another note, i read a study one time about how filtering marijuana smoke makes it more healthy in other ways.

it was about a chronic marijuana user, a lady, who smoked only marijuana her whole life. now she didn't get cancer, but she developed a hole in her lungs. the doctors said if she had filtered it through water, she would have never developed the hole in her lungs. i forget the medical term for it. i really wish i could find this study... if anyone has seen it let me know it was in shroomery news withing the past few years... LOL




this isn't it, but i found what the article was talking about:

Formula: 0




This is fascinating. Great post.


--------------------
Try to realize it's all within yourself
No-one else can make you change


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: usg543]
    #223186 - 05/05/09 06:33 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Lol damn man, you gut butthurt real quick right there.

Those other studies you posted are indeed fascinating, (and I'll admit I didn't really give them much more than a glancing through until just now), but that's all kind of irrelevant to my point also. I totally agree that bongs are generally healthier. There are numerous studies (some of which you've just posted) that have suggested a marked advantage to waterpipe use, but I was merely commenting on the results of the first study.

It was pretty much this sentence in particular I was responding to,  but I'm not going to turn this into a heated debate, because to be honest I love pretty much every method of consumption.

Quote:

most people report getting higher off a bong. i know i feel like that. i probably do get more tar in my lungs since i inhale more deeply and hold it longer.





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OfflineAKSE


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Re: The Counterproductivity of Bongs [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #223265 - 05/05/09 09:45 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I totally agree with the fact that the water removes noxious gases, however just to be fair the Orginal Study did mention:

"The study does not rule out the possibility that waterpipes could have other benefits, such as filtering out gases, but it suggests that other methods, such as the use of high potency marijuana, vaporizers, or oral ingestion are needed to avoid harmful toxins in marijuana smoke."


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