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InvisibleSativus
Brosef Knecht
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2,486
Loc: PNW
Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: yellownotepad]
    #106145 - 08/08/08 10:12 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Do you have brain damage, or did you just not read anything Sirius and I said?


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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL
Rhodium|Wetdreams|Synthetikal
DMT Extraction Overview|Jungle Spice
I Discovered the Oakridge Strain

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Offlineyellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
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Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Sativus]
    #106146 - 08/08/08 10:15 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

i understand you don't support it, but i thing your logic is flawed.  i'm arguing your logic, not your personal beliefs (which i understand are not in favor of the items being discussed).

edit:  maybe it doesnt show in my posts.  i full well understand you dont support it.  i'm arguing your idea that it isnt our place to judge, or that it does happen and it seems to me that you're saying we have to accept that. 

Edited by yellownotepad (08/08/08 10:17 AM)

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InvisibleSativus
Brosef Knecht
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2,486
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: yellownotepad]
    #106149 - 08/08/08 10:27 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Unless they're voluntarily entering into our global community, then I don't see what right we have to put an end to their culture (or at least the aspects which we disapprove of).

The idea of basic human rights arose in Enlightenment-era Europe.  It forms the basis for evaluating what is and isn't acceptable in the global community, and appears to be your basis for judging as well.  The UN and Amnesty International both operate under the presumption of basic human rights.

But a culture which is not voluntarily engaged in our experiment in global community shouldn't be bound by our mutual agreements of what is/isn't acceptable.  That's called totalitarianism.

If we have the right to do that, why don't they have the right to attack us to put an end to our cult over overpopulation?

"Universal morality" is an oxymoron.  We can have a universally accepted morality within our community.  But to say that our agreement upon a standard of ethics gives us the right to attack an independent civilization that has a different set of morality, that just doesn't work for me.  The issue is more complicated than that.


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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL
Rhodium|Wetdreams|Synthetikal
DMT Extraction Overview|Jungle Spice
I Discovered the Oakridge Strain

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Offlineyellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
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Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Sativus]
    #106150 - 08/08/08 10:36 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

if you really wanna get that bare on it, thats you.  to me the idea that humans should treat other humans with respect and love it absolutely basic beyond any cultural idea or conditioned thing. 


but this thread is still about kidaihuan and his CP.  and regardless of where it may be ok, we are a drug forum and everyone here has summed the whole problem up pretty well.  his kind of illegal is not the kind of illegal that everyone else here is into, and the last thing we need is there being a connection between naked children and marijuana growers.

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Offlineyellownotepad
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: yellownotepad]
    #106151 - 08/08/08 10:38 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

and i don't mean we should try to enforce our morals on other cultures.  the proper thing to do is allow those who want to leave their own culture to do so, and at the very most, provide a route of escape for those who want to leave their own cultures and cannot.

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OfflineDoitagain
Smoothie therapist
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Sativus]
    #106177 - 08/08/08 12:48 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sativus said:
Unless they're voluntarily entering into our global community, then I don't see what right we have to put an end to their culture (or at least the aspects which we disapprove of).

The idea of basic human rights arose in Enlightenment-era Europe.  It forms the basis for evaluating what is and isn't acceptable in the global community, and appears to be your basis for judging as well.  The UN and Amnesty International both operate under the presumption of basic human rights.

But a culture which is not voluntarily engaged in our experiment in global community shouldn't be bound by our mutual agreements of what is/isn't acceptable.  That's called totalitarianism.

If we have the right to do that, why don't they have the right to attack us to put an end to our cult over overpopulation?

"Universal morality" is an oxymoron.  We can have a universally accepted morality within our community.  But to say that our agreement upon a standard of ethics gives us the right to attack an independent civilization that has a different set of morality, that just doesn't work for me.  The issue is more complicated than that.



who is saying anything about having a culture be bound by our mutual agreement.  I'm not saying that we should force our ideas on them, i'm just saying the practice of female circumcision is inherently unethical.

I am not saying morality is universal, but certain things are inherently immoral, while they may be accepted by a society the brutal practice of female circumcision is cruel, and though i don't believe we should force our belief system on them in anyway I don't think it should be "okay" because it's our culture.

Also the idea of individual rights didn't suddenly appear during the enlightenment.

I am in no way saying that we should attack another civilization simply because they have practices that are barbaric/immoral but just because it's part of their civilization doesn't mean it's good.  I think you agree with me on the point that it is a barbaric and cruel practice, and forcing a human being to submit to that process is cruel, so what exactly are we arguing about?


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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand

keep the shit

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OfflineDoitagain
Smoothie therapist
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Sativus]
    #106193 - 08/08/08 01:20 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sativus said:
Quote:

Doitagain said:
alright well basically a coerced procedure that takes away the pleasure of sex for a woman is committing a transgression against another human being.




And transgressions against other human beings are inherently wrong? 

I'd like to point again to our culturally-sanctioned raping and pillaging of the third world.  That's a serious transgression against millions of other human beings.  Looks pretty fucking fucked up to me.  But our cultural consensus encourages this activity as not only necessary, but as serving the ultimate force of good (the economy).

Think about killing, for another good example.  We generally consider the taking of other human life to be wrong (unless they happen to be brown and in an oil-rich country, but that's another issue; I'm talking about killing someone from your own civilization).  But then, on the other hand, you have traditions of ritual human sacrifice stretching far back in time.  If the killing of another member of your civilization is inherently wrong (as a transgression against another human being), how come so many cultures worked it into their religious practices?

I think I've expressed myself well enough to leave the topic alone now.  I'm just trying to point out that what's right and wrong, even on issues we see as fundamental human rights, is totally culturally subjective.  Within a community, we can make sure these things are clearly delineated; the Growery by consensus sees child porn as reprehensible, and flaming as a good amusing pasttime.  We're all on essentially the same page; that doesn't mean that any independently developing community needs to agree with us.



"And transgressions against other human beings are inherently wrong?  "

well yeah, kinda. maybe not in every single sense but as a general rule absolutely.  If i punch you in the face for no reason it's a little bit wrong.  I mean it's not terrible because i'm sure you know how to take a punch, but purposefully inflicting suffering on another human being is usually wrong.

" If the killing of another member of your civilization is inherently wrong (as a transgression against another human being), how come so many cultures worked it into their religious practices?"

just because it is religious practice doesn't mean it's not wrong.  Religion is just how primitive people explain the world around them in a sense.  Culture's that practice ritualistic sacrifice on an unwilling person.

also i don't encourage the culturally-sanctioned raping and pillaging of the third world.


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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand

keep the shit

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Offlinekidaihuan
Married to an Asian
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Posts: 1,733
Loc: Shanghai, China
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Doitagain]
    #108155 - 08/12/08 04:17 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I'm going to go right out there and say this.

Although I am for freedoms, I am not a pedophile.

I don't have time to go in depth right now and reply to the whole thread, but I'm just going to say thanks to those who sided with me - both those thinking that I was a pedo and those who knew otherwise.

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Invisiblewowitch420
whippits n ribs
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Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 5,982
Loc: 512 TX
Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: kidaihuan]
    #108254 - 08/12/08 12:07 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kidaihuan said:
I'm going to go right out there and say this.

Although I am for freedoms, I am not a pedophile.

I don't have time to go in depth right now and reply to the whole thread, but I'm just going to say thanks to those who sided with me - both those thinking that I was a pedo and those who knew otherwise.




you are such a faggot for trying to be so involved with these lame forums


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        heady nugz

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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: wowitch420]
    #108258 - 08/12/08 12:11 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

permad??!?


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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!

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InvisibleJollyGreenJRayV
Mister
Male
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 717
Loc: North America
Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: captain.koons]
    #108272 - 08/12/08 12:35 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

kidaihuan
Banned: 08/12/08 11:43 AM
Expires: 11/27/22 10:43 AM
Reason: Other (12 points)

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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: JollyGreenJRayV]
    #108276 - 08/12/08 01:00 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

yeah 14 years from now is basically perm.


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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!

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Invisibleandyistic
We got them veenoms!

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 10,990
Loc: On the Lot
Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: captain.koons]
    #108277 - 08/12/08 01:08 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

And when he comes back in 14 years, he's gonna post more CP.

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