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OfflineTheMycMan
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Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice?
    #832175 - 03/16/18 03:15 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Hello Growery! The Mycelium Man here.
I've been cultivating psilocybin mushrooms since last October and thanks in great part from the Shroomery Forums .
Many thanks to all of my colleagues and moderators who've all shown almost nothing but support! Special thanks to specifically Yesum who has shown the greatest amount of encouragement to conduct my experiments and enjoy the craft.

So this is my first post on here and I'd like to start on a high note and have a highly productive discussion on the subject matter.
I'm 23 and I've grown some plants in the past however this was outdoors in the fields behind a suburb and I had limited success. Well now I've come into possession of some loud seeds (seedy batch) and am planning on using some of my space in my closet ( after consolidating my mushroom setup a bit ).

As it stands I have most of the normal supplies one has to grow bulk Cubensis mushrooms (I've also been fruiting Tampanensis as well as producing sclerotia).

Specifically
-Coco Coir
-Worm Casings
-Perlite
-Vermiculite (grade A fine grain)
-Black Kow (not a 'shit' ton left)

-174 4oz wide mouthed Mason jars
-12 8oz wide mouthed Mason jars (only 6 to spare due to my truffle cultures)
-6 2qt tapered mouthed Mason jars (only 2 to spare due to my truffle cultures)
-1 SGFC (which I am no longer going to use because fruiting cakes is pointless)
-11 6qt shoe boxes (all in use)
-4 12qt shoe boxes (all in use)
-80 5oz plastic cups
-1 6500k Daylight bulb (being used)
-1 fine misting continuous spraying bottle

-Log Book
-Heavy duty aluminium foil
-Plastic wrap
-Duct tape (Black)
-Zip ties
-Baggies (Gallon and sandwich)
-HEPA grade face masks
-Sharpies
-Labels 1"x 3.5" and 3"x 4" (LOADS)
-Black Nitrile powder-less gloves

The Current Plan
I have a 58"x 21"x 33" (L x W x H) space at the bottom of my closet which I no longer need for my mushies. The upper levels of the closet are enough space for my shoe box grows fro here on out.
I will post pictures of the closet at some point to give a better representation of the space available for use to grow my plants.
If I take car board tri-folds from Walmart, Line them individually with duct tape and reflective tape on one side and plain duct tape on the other side (perhaps white tape on the duct tape only side and then black duct tape underneath the reflective tape.)

These card board panels can then be cut into shape and laid into place to surround the 40k cubic inch space. I'd then use more of the white duct tape to seal all the pieces in place.

Within the new grow box I am unsure how many plants I'll be able to fit however I will likely use plastic to line the floor. I would like to use primarily perlite and coco coir as a main substrate once transferred into the pots I wish to flower in (Probably simple black plastic pots).

Currently all of the seeds are soaking in a very clean jar of distilled water until their tap root appears. Once the tap root appears I will make 'home made' rooting cups if possible. Although I'm certain this may not even be necessary and i may just be able to use the same or similar substrate as the large pots through out the sapling stage.

I'll likely place 3 lamps mounted inside the boxed area. They wont likely be able to be directed strait down on the plants but I don't believe this should be a massive issue as I plan to stunt the height of the plants severely due to the limited space.

Once transferred to the final pots I'll place an inch or so layer of perlite at the bottom in order to allow proper drainage. The pots will be placed in trays to keep the amount of excess water leakage to a minimum. I'll use spring water only for this, spraying the undersides of the leaves daily through out the vegetative stage and water the substrate as needed and only when substrate is dry to touch roughly 1" below surface.

Once my saplings are in vegetative stage I'll aim to keep them from extending growth past the 32" mark in height. This will mean that I will want to focusing on creating a more robust, however short plant. Each sapling placed in vegetative state of course will be selected based on strength as a sapling. Then of course as they grow I will sex them and remove and male or hermaphroditic plants as is standard practice.

In order to provide a constant fresh air supply I'll be using 6 cheap PC fans. 3 of which will direct airflow in through the bottom and the other 3 will direct hot air out of the top of the box. Each fan will have small shaft with a space for a removable carbon foam filter pad. The shaft will be in place to prevent light contamination during night cycles and or an improper spectrum.

In each corner of the box I will place a small 6" fan blowing at a 45 degree angle towards the canopy of the plants to ensure constant air movement within the box.

Now here's where my main issues start to arise. I need to easily access the inside of the box on a regular basis of course and this will require a door and I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to prevent all light from penetrating its way through the opening. Suggestions for sealing all leaks?

What do you all think of my plan and how would you alter it?
What ratios should I use in my substrates?
Detail? Thoughts? Opinions? Advice? Anything?


Edited by TheMycMan (03/16/18 03:17 AM)


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OfflineSlackerer
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: TheMycMan] * 1
    #832177 - 03/16/18 10:01 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

I'm far from an expert but I came from the same world as you lol, The only problems I can forsee is the height of the grow area, though with training you should be able to make it work, and what wattage is your light? I've cultivated mushies with a CFL as low as 20 watts, but for this you'll need something a little more powerful. I'm currently running 2 veg rooms, one is 4x5x5 with a 400w MH and the other is 3x3x6 with a 600w LED


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OfflineRider420
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: TheMycMan]
    #832178 - 03/16/18 12:30 PM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

TheMycMan said:The Current Plan

Currently all of the seeds are soaking in a very clean jar of distilled water until their tap root appears. Once the tap root appears I will make 'home made' rooting cups if possible. Although I'm certain this may not even be necessary and i may just be able to use the same or similar substrate as the large pots through out the sapling stage.

Once my saplings are in vegetative stage I'll aim to keep them from extending growth past the 32" mark in height.

Now here's where my main issues start to arise. I need to easily access the inside of the box on a regular basis of course and this will require a door and I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to prevent all light from penetrating its way through the opening. Suggestions for sealing all leaks?

What do you all think of my plan and how would you alter it?
What ratios should I use in my substrates?
Detail? Thoughts? Opinions? Advice? Anything?




Seeds can drown if the tip opens while still floating in water. I don't seed soak at all anymore and get 9 out of 10 seeds to live, better off just using a moist paper towel.

Cannabis at least doubles and sometimes triples its height after flowering so if you want to keep your flowering plant below 33 inches then you need to flower at 12 inches as well as prune or bend the top shoots.

Perlite and coco fiber don't have any nutrients so you will have to add them to your water, when foliar feeding remember to use nutrients at half to one third strength.

For sealing the box and blocking out the light I find Velcro strips and plastic do a good job.

:goodluck:


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OfflineTheMycMan
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: Rider420]
    #832179 - 03/16/18 12:54 PM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Excellent, and good to know. I had them in a moist paper towel for 4 days with no results and i soaked them last night and now have several taproots. I shall remove them immediately however.

Yes I figured something around a foot would be the max height due to the pot also needing clearance.

Thought I might have to use Velcro as well but hate that sound it makes when separating. May still use it though.

Does wattage really matter if temperature and spectrum are in the right ranges? I mean a 6500k bulb like I'm using is a daylight bulb and the suns temp is roughly 5700k to 6100k.

As I understand it, saplings are very overly sensitive to nutrients so does that mean I could use plain perlite and coir for the saplings until they're ready to move to bigger pots?
When I acquire the foliar I will adjust my concentration to whatever doesn't burn the plant which ill test by using single leaves.

could i potentially use some portions of Black Kow or casings as an additive to enrich my 'soil' to be more bud friendly?

I've seen some posts about using 100% perlite as a substrate, not what i plan to do but, what do you think of this?

Furthermore, If my 6500k bulbs aren't enough for vegetative and flowering then is it enough for my seedlings in the mean time? What cycle should they be on until vegetative, 24 hours?

How much clearance will the canopy need between itself and the ceiling of the enclosure?


Edited by TheMycMan (03/16/18 02:51 PM)


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InvisibleKenInVic
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: TheMycMan] * 1
    #832181 - 03/16/18 05:49 PM (6 months, 2 days ago)

In the space you describe, I suspect you will only have room for two plants at most.  You will give up 10 to 12 inches of your initial height available to you right off the bat just from the final pot you will need them growing in.  You may be best suited to get your hands on some strain of auto-fem that grows short.  This would deal with space and guarantee you no males in the choir.  Something you don't want if you are limited in your number of plants.

You will also need to plan to deal with stink, humidity, stink, air exchange, and did I mention stink.  Herb is much harder to keep on the down-low than mush.


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OfflineTheMycMan
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: KenInVic]
    #832183 - 03/16/18 06:50 PM (6 months, 2 days ago)

Stink I can manage. I'm on the third floor and the second floor is my living room so I'm not worried about my neighbors or room mates.

Do you not think my PC fans and the desk fans in the enclosure would provide enough FAE?

I don't plan to purchase any seeds I'm using what I have out of the batch of bud I bought last. My dude missed a male on this harvest.

how much clearance does the canopy need from the ceiling?


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InvisibleKenInVic
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: TheMycMan] * 1
    #832195 - 03/17/18 06:27 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

There's a little more to growing good pot than clearing out the corner of a closet.  Lights are an issue.  CFLs work but are less than ideal.  That means you really need LEDs or HIDs of some sort (MH, HPS).  If you are going to use LEDs, you won't need as much clearance, but if you are using HID, you have to deal with heat and will never want the light closer than about 18" from the top of the canopy.  If you allow a pot height of 10", plant height of 3' to 4', light clearance of 1-1/2',  another 1/2' to 10" for the light fixture itself; this is roughly a room height of 6' to 7'.  I had one plant get away on me in my small tent and had to cut back a bunch of the tops because I couldn't get the lamp any further away and they were getting burnt.

You are going to need to move a lot of air.  I use a 4" 160 CFM fan in a 3 x 3 x 5.5 and it just moves enough air and keeps temps down (HID lighting).  You are also going to deal with a high level of humidity that you will need to tame some how, easily in the high 60 to low 70 percent range when things are really humming.

This is just the beginning.  It is a lot more hardware and hands-on intensive than mush.  May I suggest getting your hands on some of the better books available on growing this stuff so you don't waste your time or set yourself up for disappointment.  Try the library for this or download Amazon's Kindle app and pick them up cheap from their Kindle book store.

Note that growing pot has its expenses.  Finding some bag seed, and I've found lots, just means the work has started.  It will not be free by the time you're finished.  Given that, you also risk a total crap out.  I recently planted 4 regular seeds of a certain strain, only to have them all sex out male and no good to me.  It was really too bad I'd already wasted 6 weeks worth of labour, lights, nutrients, etc; basically good money I will never get back.  This is part of my rationale to trying an auto-fem.  You are guaranteed a female plant, they tend to be short so height isn't an issue, and they don't respond to playing tricks with lights so you don't have to mess with light schedules.  If the cost of a couple of seeds is a show stopper for you, you have more problems than just your restricted space.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: KenInVic] * 1
    #832196 - 03/17/18 08:39 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

Height requirements for lights at least a foot plus about a foot of space between the light and the top of the plant (LED, T5) at its tallest, 8-12" for a container. So about 2-3' for equipment. Your plants will triple in size once they start to flower. Flowering in small pots and vegging them for short periods of time will help this. SOG is probably the best option. Not every strain likes SOG style, so you'll want to hunt for something that will.

Coco and perlite are inert, and seedlings will not survive long without nutrients. I like to mix 50/50 coco/'seed starting mix' (ground peat/buffer) to let the roots feed off something organic at first before I start feeding with hydroponic nutrients. Otherwise its nearly full strength from early on.

Sizing your pots up through the right size helps speed growth. I use 1L 'airpots' and transfer them to the flowering pot. Excessive transplanting is a waste of time, but putting a seedling in a large pot slows it down and makes it hard to feed/water for best results.

Match pot size to watering requirements. With coco you want to water every 2-3 days with 10-25% runoff. Its not wasted, its flushing the coco constantly.

Use an enzyme product the whole time, to allow for proper nutrient uptake and washing waste away. It allows the water to soak into the coco instead of pooling up and running down the side, or only straight down too fast. 


Stuff like this will make good reflective walls. Its Mylar on bubble wrap. If you need to make a door or something you could back it with cardboard to stiffen it up.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reflectix-48-in-x-25-ft-Double-Reflective-Insulation-BP48025/100052556

For that small confined space HID is not going to be economical to run. You'll be able to run more watts of LED closer to the plants.

Those fans might be enough. you'll have to try and see how it works. Get a temperature and humidity gauge with high/low reading. Climate changes constantly throughout the year and when the plants get bigger. Its not just temperature but humidity you need to be concerned about. Check out 'vapor pressure deficit'

With auto-fem's your dependent on paying someone for seeds constantly. Regular autos are where its at, just pull the males early or let them seed for future generations.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineTheMycMan
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: phychotron]
    #832202 - 03/18/18 02:50 AM (6 months, 1 day ago)

all good info. Could I use the Black Kow or worm casings for anything?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: TheMycMan]
    #832204 - 03/18/18 08:27 AM (6 months, 1 day ago)

not sure what black kow is, worm casings can be used but coco is best plain. I'd mix it in for the seedlings to use a small amount of then switch to pure coco for the larger pot.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


Edited by phychotron (03/18/18 08:28 AM)


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OfflineTheMycMan
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: phychotron]
    #832216 - 03/18/18 11:08 PM (6 months, 15 hours ago)

Black Kow is precomposted cow manure.
so just coir and perlite after seedling plus nutrients?
what about vermiculite, any use for it?


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InvisibleKenInVic
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: TheMycMan] * 1
    #832218 - 03/18/18 11:39 PM (6 months, 15 hours ago)

You don't need to have verm or perlite in this hobby.  All I use is coir and a commercial three-part nutrient package, one for vegging, one for flowering and the last is mixed in with either of the others in different proportions depending on where your are in your feeding schedule.  To insure I am feeding my plants properly I have two metering pens, one for dissolved solids and one for pH.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: KenInVic]
    #832222 - 03/19/18 10:25 AM (6 months, 4 hours ago)

Canna recommends pure coco coir instead of adding perlite, as the coco has better nutrient retention/exchange properties. Their brand coir drains to the 'proper' air-water ratio because they blended the size of coir particles. Perlite just adds more air and reduces container size.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineTheMycMan
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: phychotron]
    #833296 - 06/02/18 10:30 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

How am I doing guys? Here are some pics.
What am I missing here? A particular nutrient? Are they stressed by something?
How often do you see a one off seed?
There are no male genitals anywhere on the plants and no sign of pollenization, but I one itty bitty underdeveloped green seed. It's not getting any bigger as far as I can tell.
Using 80% coir 20% perlite. I've been splitting the plant food as so, a quarter teaspoon to a half gallon split between all 5 plants (was 6 but sacrificed one for dissection.) Then I flush for several days as the same plant food caused nut burn while they were in veg at the dosage recommended on the box which was thrice that amount. I left a small amount of "enriched" perlite at the bottom of each cup before repotting each of them, knocked dirt off of most of the root structure and then placed it in with my mixture. (Enriched as in sprayed with plant food and left to dry) I'm using 3 3500k daylight bulbs, 1 black light (for at least some form of UV) and 1 6500k daylight bulb (which the plants seem to like the most as they're all pointing to it. )
I read on growweedeasy (I know I know not the best source ever) that light spectrum and brightness are really the most important part for photosynthesis. (This seems to be the case so far)
I also read there an article that stated that light leaks aren't that important as long as it's mostly dark in the grow space. The author stated this would be comparable to moon light. So I haven't actually sealed the space off but it's nearly pitch in their I'm the night cycle.
All of my buds look great and are super resigned up they've been on the 12/12 flowering cycle for about 4 to 5 weeks.
Also what's up with that random was algea growing in my runoff resivoirs? Is it a danger to anything?
Also clearly I defoliated a bit. Should I do more or less? I made sure that all of the buds themselves are exposed to the light. My big plant has so many buds on it. How common is it for flowers to literally form in every joint of the plant?



Edited by TheMycMan (06/02/18 12:03 PM)


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InvisibleKenInVic
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: TheMycMan] * 1
    #833300 - 06/02/18 05:40 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Those look suspiciously like they're in Styrofoam cups.  Whatever they are, they look way too small and you probably have some issues with being root bound.  I use individual 3 gallon pots, minimum, per plant for flowering plants.

Your lighting is out of whack, as you already seem to partially know.  You want 6500K for all your lights while you're vegging and should shift to 2700K when flowering.  CFLs are the best poor man's solutions to light problems.  In either case, they'll take all the light you can throw at them, more than you are already providing.

You growing mixture doesn't really need perlite.  I use straight coir and water/feed every two day days, with 10% run off or better.  I don't flush until I'm prepping for harvest.  This, BTW, is classified as 'hydroponic' growing so you need to follow the rules of thumb regarding your nutrients.  I would suggest a reasonably priced pair of PPM and pH meters to get your nutrient problems under control.  Use the search engine here and on Google to get more info on feeding regimens for the different phases.

Don't defoliate your plants, that is what absorbs light to do the work necessary for growth and resin production.

I'm out of things to tell you right now without this becoming tl:dr, if it's not already.

Remember, this is a weed.  Don't over think it.


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OfflineTheMycMan
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: KenInVic]
    #833301 - 06/02/18 09:28 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Great advice and I'll remember that for the future. They are Styrofoam cups. They are probably root bound you're right. I'll be transplanting them soon somehow no Wal-Mart, target or home depot/Lowes within 25 miles of me has normal plastic pots like wtf.
It is a weed but not like any other and actually requires more care than crab grass but I get what you're getting across here. I add more lights every chance I get but anything over these LED daylight bulbs is out of the budget and they have far higher lumens than any of the CFL options.
If the ppm measurement on the box caused nut burn then what do you suggest?
What about that one off seed?
This shit is so budget it's not even funny (lmao)
I'm aware that there are 3 spurts in the flowering stage. How long do each of then typically last? Or is that solely based on genetics?
These are bad batch bag street seeds, not something from a seed bank.
Lastly can anyone direct me to a "easy af" (in the words of Bodhisatta from shroomery) way to cross pollinate 2 female plants to produce femonized seeds of my own? Is it worth it to do so? I assume it's gonna ruin the buds on the plant, would it still function/will the buds still be worth smoking if I was to do this in the late stages of flowering?

Edit June 3rd 9am
I transferred the two larger plants into gallon jugs that I cut the top off of. Neither of them were root bound. I think the damage may be from heat due to the fact that some of the leaves have curled up.


Edited by TheMycMan (06/03/18 09:21 AM)


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InvisibleKenInVic
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: TheMycMan] * 1
    #833303 - 06/03/18 02:40 PM (3 months, 16 days ago)

I can't say what the requirements are for your nutrient regimen without seeing labels, unfortunately.  However, here is what I have going in terms of nutrient regimen.

I am using a two-part system with CaMg (Calcium/Magnesium) supplementation due to extremely soft water in our domestic system.  Feedings consist of CaMg, a growth fert and a common fert during vegging and switches to CaMg, flowering fert and common fert for flowering.  Because I am growing strictly in coir, I like my target pH to be in a 5.2 to 5.5 range at all times for best nutrient uptake by the plants.  As you are already aware, you start out with weak feedings and build up the strength as the plant needs it and is capable of using it.  This is where PPM becomes critical.  During seedling stage, I don't go over ~450ppm.  By the end of the plant's lifetime, I am up around ~1100 and then I go to flushing with tap water for the final stages.

If you're using nutrients designed for pot growing, they should have a time-line on the bottles or on their web site for how much to use and when.  If you are using ordinary nutrients, you may have to play around to get the PPM in the right range.  If you need to, mix some test batches of feed solution until you feel you have it right.  It's a lot less disheartening to throw out some feed than to have to pull up a plant that didn't make it.

Nutrition is as critical as light.  There's lots of good documentation just a Google's step away.  Note: in vegging they get slightly more nitrogen, in flowering, less nitrogen and more phosphorus.  That is why the feeding products you find for pot are all multi-part.

Flowering stage goes from when you trigger them (unless they're auto-flowering) and then runs somewhere between 7 and 10 weeks average, depending on strain.  If you're not using commercial seeds and know the expected time frame you will have to be diligent from about week 6 on in determining how ready your buds are.

Good idea to up-size the containers for those plants.  If you haven't already, make sure there are sufficient drain holes.  Also, you mentioned algae growing in the water in your drip trays under the plants.  No need to keep that, just dump it as soon as you plants have finished draining and give the trays a quick wipe to dry them.


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OfflineTheMycMan
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: KenInVic]
    #833304 - 06/03/18 03:34 PM (3 months, 16 days ago)

Man you are just full of awesome advice.
Any ideas on that one off seed I found or on cross pollinating females with females/producing my own femonized seeds?


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Offlineshroomerite
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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: TheMycMan]
    #833348 - 06/07/18 05:14 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

OP, I first want to applaud you on your ambition to grow your own dank and the research you are doing. Well done.

With that said and with the interest in truly helping you reach your goal....you are wasting your time trying to setup a hyrdo grow in a space that small. Yes, coco-coir is hydro.

If your purpose is to get some dank ganja to smoke for yourself then you must forget all those nutrient plans and additives. Dont even think about a proper breeding operation in that space. Yes you could produce seed but with that space i would concentrate on dank flower. one or the other.

Use a well balanced soil (plants that small will never use everything that is available in soil) and induce flowering at about 12" high or your gonna run out of space.

Good Luck and remeber...(kiss) keep it simple stupid. No offense.


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Re: Shroomer Now Grower Too. Advice? [Re: TheMycMan]
    #833349 - 06/07/18 05:16 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

TheMycMan said:
Man you are just full of awesome advice.
Any ideas on that one off seed I found or on cross pollinating females with females/producing my own femonized seeds?





females DONT produce pollen. this is NOT how feminized seeds are formed. :facepalm3:lol.


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