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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,037
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Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society
    #13515 - 04/26/08 02:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What would be the ideal way to handle drugs in a free industrial society?  I have my own opinions on this and I bet that if you're reading this here you have thought about it too.  Please share your thoughts and opinions with the rest of us. 

:burnone:

I didn't want this to get buried in the The Lounge and I would like a serious discussion about this topic so keep the off topic banter to a min.  thx.  :laugh:


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The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #13534 - 04/26/08 02:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Mandatory injections from day 1.


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #39217 - 05/25/08 05:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I must say that i am disappointed in the lack of response to this topic. Frankly, it's something that doesn't get much mention at all. We talk a lot about what the drug war has cost us thus far and we know we need change. More and more drugs are being developed. They must be controlled somehow. I don't have a lot of time right now so when i come back i will just throw out some ideas for you all to pick at. In the mean time if anyone wants to discuss feel free. Progress the discussion please.


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Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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InvisibleToiletduk
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #57633 - 06/15/08 01:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Legalise them all, but make it similar to alcohol and regulate, tax, and age-restrict them. Thems my thoughts, anyway. :tongue:


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: Toiletduk]
    #83308 - 07/14/08 10:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I agree with that TD.  I spent the last few hours reading about pot on the net and watching different youtube videos from pres candidates regarding their opinions on the use of medical marijuana.  They all seem to cite the FDA and AMA as saying that these organizations don't support it and that there are other medications and treatment options that are "better."  In one of the video's i saw Mr. McCain stated that he would "never" support medical marijuana.  In another one he cites that he, nor anyone that he knows, has ever heard of a DEA agent arresting a dying patient for cannabis use (w/ respect to the fed raids in CA; http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy_main/2007/oct/05/mccain_and_giuliani_say_terrible). ; This shit just infuriates me to no end.  I realize that posting this here isn't necessarily progressing the cause but it helps me to vent and to actually write down some of my thoughts about the subject. 

What is the most effective way to go to get our cause heard?  Should we simply be speaking out about our civil liberties and how they are being violated by the current drug laws?  The fairly small annual gatherings that we have aren't doing enough.  There seem to be way too many drug reformation organizations that appear to be working separately all with separate agendas that might overlap in some respects, but fail to work in tandum to accomplish an instrumental goal in the course of human civilization.  I don't think it's any coincidence that LSD was discovered within months of the advent of the atomic bomb.  Personally, I see these drugs (psychedelics specifically) as fundamental to the society we live in today.  I just wish their importance wasn't so god damn transparent.  Francis Crick comes to mind, so does Steve Jobs and Dr Kary Mullis.  These people have used LSD, psilocybin and other psychedelics to cause societal change far beyond measure.  We can't even begin to measure the impact that LSD has had on all of our lives, whether we know it or not.  Imagine if all the people that used psychedelics stepped out from the shadows and proclaimed, "I discovered and developed ________ derived from an inspiration gained from an ineffable LSD experience."  But I digress.  I'm sure this is nothing new for you people here reading this, though.  Back to the topic of drugs in a free society.  A clean needle exchange program initiated by the government would be a start.  The drugs aren't going away, and neither is our human nature to experiment with our own consciousness.  So, i guess the question is really, what responsibility falls on the governments shoulders.  IMO the governments only roll should be to regulate the development of drugs in order to protect American's from harmful chemicals.  The controlled substances act is a joke.  It's really irony, since the act only forces the production of those chemicals to the underground, making the production uncontrolled.  However, they do a good job at controlling the American's that use the drugs.  The arguement has been made numerous times that the drug war only hurts American's and this is certainly how i see it - but i am not blinded by money or bureaucracy.  I feel that if anyone want's to have an LSD experience they should be able to inquire about the substance with their doctor - or get a referral to a doc that has a specialty in mind altering substances (or other drug specialists) and maybe take a test to see if you might be a candidate for experimentation.  Obviously, all people are not cut out for psychedelic use (see Huxley's work) and therefore maybe they shouldn't be allowed to use the substances.  However, that would just force them to go underground.  But the issue is research and production.  Even if that person that was turned down for psychedelic use is forced underground they could still get a pure supply of LSD - as its production would be controlled by the FDA.  Back to research.  Where's it all at?  What happened to it?  I'm sure most of you reading all this have probably read Rick Strausman's book and can recall the maze of red tape he had to negotiate through just to get approval and samples of pure DMT.  Why suppress the research?  Perhaps because they know that the results would uproot their current beliefs?  Maybe the media would get ahold of the published reports that LSD can cause profound spiritual experiences that actually help people overcome serious disorders such as PTSD or even addiction to alcohol.  *gasps* oh no!  We can't have that!  How can we make a difference? 

The further in time we go; the more difficult it is to create a change; and the more costly it becomes in time, money, and resources.  I guess this can fall back to all those organizations out there (some of which are extremely powerful) to band together to make a difference.  Why the fuck do we have so many of them in the first place.  Norml, MPP, DPA, and a whole slew of others exist for a primary purpose - maybe they are working together and i just am ignorant about it.  Please educate me.  Sorry for the long rant but my blood got boiling today and I felt like releasing some of my thoughts on some people that just might read em.  So what do you have to say?


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Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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OfflineaDoS
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Registered: 05/04/08
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: Toiletduk]
    #102221 - 08/04/08 08:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well, I don't think they should all be legalized. I think a few should be legal in the same manner of alcohol. And the rest should be decriminalized. Users should not be in prison. Someone should not be a felon for being caught with 10 dollars worth of heroin.


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"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH


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OfflineBlargIAmDead


Registered: 06/01/08
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: aDoS]
    #108294 - 08/12/08 03:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I say leave people alone. If someone wants to mainline bleach I say go ahead and let them. You may call this an ignorant and uneducated opinion because "some people out there need help". Well I say fuck em. If they're hell bent on a destructive path and they refuse help that exists then fuck em.

The problem we run into is there are not programs to help them. Even when there are programs most times they go unused. Suicide hotlines is a good one. I mean we have a telephone number to call for gods sake if you're thinking suicidal thoughts. Not even go in and talk to a professional. Call a number from your home and talk to some guy. And we still have suicides.

I'm gonna go ahead and lay down my opinion as being Social Darwinism. If people kill themselves and they're not hurting anyone else I say let them kill themselves. But the first time that heroin fiend takes so much as lunch money from a kid, you curb stomp the bastard. I have huge respect for people who want to alter their brain to see things in twisted and possibly beautiful ways. I have zero respect for thieves, thugs, vandals, etc.


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InvisibleAgent00
Kickin it for Christ


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 923
Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: BlargIAmDead]
    #118857 - 09/05/08 07:16 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BlargIAmDead said:
I say leave people alone. If someone wants to mainline bleach I say go ahead and let them.



My thoughts exactly people think far too highly of themselves.  You really have to be an arrogant person to say someone "needs help", fuck people who think like that what makes there way of life so special and "right".

It reminds me of that women who's son died in Iraq and she parades around and protests the war holding pictures of her dead son, saying the war in Iraq is an atrocity.  By doing this she dishonors her son. Her son chose to join the military and fight for the US it was his decision not bush's.  What a disrespectful and selfish bitch.

I dont care what they do I will continue to do drugs and tell people who tell me that I need help or that I should do otherwise to fuck themselves regardless of status as I have been doing until now they have no right.  If I want to shoot heroin I will if I want to drop acid I will and if I want to kill myself I will.  People need to get off of there high horses and mind there own fuckin business.


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Invisiblewowitch420
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Registered: 04/22/08
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: Agent00]
    #118864 - 09/05/08 07:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

be careful with heroin


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        heady nugz


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OfflineCannabliss

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 56
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: wowitch420]
    #120794 - 09/11/08 06:47 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Drugs should be legal period. I do agree with the age limit though. People with addictions should always be able to seek help and be treated like people and not animals, also psychedelic research should be funded and explored as well as the use of herion to treat pain in extream cases, I mean there drugs for crying out loud! 
All substances should be kept cheap and affordable, to the point where a blue collar worker could keep a substantial heroin habbit under control without turning to theft to support his habbit.
The only problem i really see is businessmen turning to meth, that could get ugly.


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Invisiblewowitch420
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: Cannabliss]
    #120861 - 09/11/08 09:16 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


All substances should be kept cheap and affordable, to the point where a blue collar worker could keep a substantial heroin habbit under control without turning to theft to support his habbit.




lol


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        heady nugz


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Offlinet0ad
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Registered: 09/28/08
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: wowitch420]
    #128628 - 10/04/08 08:51 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Marijuana will only see its day if it becomes legalized for responsible adult use, of the H.R.#5843- Cocaine, Heroin, Methamphetamine, are all drugs that cause severe addition, both physically & mentally.  Those should be banned, imo.  Should we send repeated offenders to jail?  No.

I would rather have something like InSite that Canada has, where we can progress these individuals off of they're addictions.  If "Alcoholism" is a disease, why isn't being addicted to crack cocaine, or heroin?  Medically, and logically, it does not make sense. 

Crime is committed by addicts or pushers addicted to money.  Yes, money itself is an addiction.  Most individuals who ARE arrested for drug crimes is simply for possession.  On a "group" I'm the moderator of on a septate webspace, (cough) my research has found that in 2005 on average of minimum convictions in my state (which my state has the harshest drug law pertaining to 1st time offenders for marijuana) costs the  taxpayers $477m a year in my state alone.


Here is the excerpt,

"Taking the average $62.05 a day, for 365 days gives us a total of $22,648.25 per year, per person. Lets take the average of 21,062 inmates a year [based on 2005 averages per county, added then averaged again] on possession charges times the average cost per inmate annually, leaves us with a bill of ..

$477,017,441.5 [$447m] yearly to ourselves as tax-payers with the check to sign."

////////////////     

This is based solely on if the maximum for a 1st offender, which is a year in jail, is given.  Its usually a few days in jail w/ a full-fledged promise to show up in court & probation for a year; but that still entails the need to have a paycheck for Probation Officers & court hearings.  That figure was not figured in due to lack of materials needed to compile.

But you get kinda the point, right?  I don't feel I should have to pay for johnny jackass in jail, but I still do.  Especially don't feel I need to pay for him to live in jail for being arrested for an oz. of missy jane, you know?  Or a medical patient in CA should have to go to jail.  Things like this need to end.


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<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/hypnotoad.gif" alt="" />


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OfflineHumility
Registered: 11/13/08
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: t0ad]
    #144553 - 11/13/08 11:53 PM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Alcoholism is not a disease.  Disease has nothing to do with electing to put substances into your body.

All drugs should be legalized.  It is education, not prohibition that will result in lowered numbers of abusive users of "hard drugs".  People should not and indeed cannot be "protected" from decisions that they choose to make regarding their own bodies and lives.  The notion is ridiculous.

Age restrictions on merchant sales make plenty of sense as you're limiting the ability of the merchant to prey on "susceptible" groups; that said I'd completely disagree with legislating against possession, consumption or cultivation for any people, including minors as the base idea is once again that someone needs to be "protected" by the government from themselves.  It is the responsibility of parents and communities to influence the actions of the next generation by influencing thought, not legislating and seeking to abuse the monopoly of legitimate force that the government by definition possesses.


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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: Humility]
    #145125 - 11/15/08 04:37 PM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Addicts should definitely be able to get their poison by prescription. Takes the money out of hands of criminals and makes everyone happy. I doubt their is going to be much demand for people to just pick up the habit cause of availability. Doctors prescription, different concept.


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Invisiblewowitch420
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: Kaptain]
    #145305 - 11/16/08 12:14 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

hard drugs of any kind should not be legal. at least not now. herb is a plant mon


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        heady nugz


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: wowitch420]
    #149651 - 11/23/08 11:05 AM (8 years, 12 days ago)

all drugs should be legal.  Only then can we cut funding to terrorist organizations and other criminal activities. 

Perhaps drugs should have a licensing system so all may have a basic knowledge of the drugs dangers and effects.  A drug license could also track more effectively drug usage trends. 

Some drugs I think should also be limited in the quantity you can purchase.  Sale to minors will resort in a revocation of ones license or worse depending on the age difference between the minor and the legal age limit.

"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."

Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President.


Also I would like to add this on; the problem with decriminalization is that it still funds crime.  Which is the real problem with drug use isn't it?  You're not worried about the common user you are worried about the criminal gangs behind them who use drug profits to fund terror.  Only complete legalization will eliminate this element.  I don't know of any other resource that contains within it the profit margins of illegal drugs. 


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


Edited by THEBats (11/23/08 11:13 AM)


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InvisibleStonethM
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Registered: 10/06/08
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: wowitch420]
    #149663 - 11/23/08 11:54 AM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

wowitch420 said:
hard drugs of any kind should not be legal. at least not now. herb is a plant mon


 


For once we kinda agree.

I would like to see all nonmetial or pysitical depend drugs legal and controled by age and tax. Truthfully it would be and econ. bost for us all.


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:getstoned:


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OfflineLSDcoatedD0me


Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 234
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: THEBats]
    #169885 - 12/25/08 11:08 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:


"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."

Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. 




thats an awesome quote man thanks for posting :thumbup:


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Invisibleltd
 User Gallery Arcade Champion: Curveball

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 6,042
Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: LSDcoatedD0me]
    #171190 - 12/27/08 11:26 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

indeed


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OfflineezKiel
All About the Haze
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Re: Open Discussion: Drugs in a Free Society [Re: ltd]
    #171486 - 12/28/08 04:26 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

all drug us should be legal to use... but have the possibility of mandatory rehab.


hard drugs should be illegal to distribute (hairon, meth, n shit)


psychedelics should b legal everywhere and used in resarch


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