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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 12,550
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co2 production and venting
    #315712 - 11/15/09 01:06 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

What's every ones opinion on the necessity of venting out air in your grow room, right before your producer cycles back on.

I know that the oxygen in your room is too low the propane isn't going to burn efficiently, and besides not getting the most out of your propane in terms of co2, you will also get higher amounts of byproducts that aren't so great. 


I was thinking though, that once you reach your optimal PPM of co2 in a room.  Your producer shuts off and the plants then use up the co2 and replace it with oxygen.  So then once it's time to get your co2 back up you should be back at appropriate levels as far as ratios of o2 to co2.  Then in theory you really shouldn't need to vent your room as long as your humidity and temp are in control. 


Any thoughts on this??


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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Registered: 04/20/08
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Re: co2 production and venting [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #315721 - 11/15/09 02:28 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

first of all, normal atmospheric levels of CO2 are completely sufficient for plant growth. They've been evolving to grow in these conditions for tens of thousands of years and function at near maximum growth rates in standard atmosphere. Additionally, our atmosphere in the last 50 years has basically become CO2 enriched by about 100ppm anyway, so it's pointless to invest all that money into CO2 producing equipment.

Secondly, in standard high oxygen environments propane burns very very cleanly to form only CO2 and water, but even in our standard ~20% O2 air the byproducts of incomplete combustion (save for the ethanethiol or thiophene added as odorants) aren't necessarily that bad.

and for your third question, Technically yes, if you can properly regulate your temperature, humidity and CO2 you shouldn't really need to bring in fresh air or vent old air. sealed systems are neat, but you certainly won't save any money this way


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: co2 production and venting [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #315749 - 11/15/09 03:30 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I am going to have to disagree with you.  It has been shown that increasing co2 concentration to 1000 to 1500PPM dramatically increases the speed at which cannabis develops.

"Adding more co2 to grow room air stimulates growth.  Indoor cannabis cultivation is similar to conditions in a greenhouse, and indoor growers apply the same principles that greenhouse growers use.  Cannabis can use more co2 that the 300-400 that naturally occurs in the air.  By increasing the amount of co2 to 1200-1500ppm- the optimum amount widely agreed upon by professional growers-plants can grow up to 30 percent faster, providing that light, water, and nutrients are not limiting."

Jorge Cervantes
Marijuana Horticulture-The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Growers Bible
Pg. 337


Other publications like the Cannabis Grow Bible back this up as well.


As far as no by products from burning propane, i agree that as long as you have the appropriate amount of o2 in the room your going to be fine.  But if your burning propane in a room with a low concentration of o2 and a high concentration of co2, then your propane and burn inefficiently, and produce toxic by-products. 


"If fuel does not burn completely or cleanly, co2 generators can release toxic gases- including carbon monoxide-into the grow room.  Nitrous oxide, also a byproduct of burning propane can grow to toxic levels too."

Jorge Cervantes
Marijuana Horticulture-The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Growers Bible
Pg. 342


I'm not worried about money, more just curious if I can just get away with not venting in fresh air. 

Have you worked with co2??


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: co2 production and venting [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #315847 - 11/15/09 12:01 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

you need to stop quoting Jorge Cervantes at me. I've shown numerous times that he's an inbred jizz-wad who knows absolutely nothing about horticulture, and his opinion is useless.
He thinks that Bacteria and Fungus are the same thing. Can you seriously trust a man who says that?

Obviously increasing the CO2 will increase growth rates, an introductory level horticulture class will tell you that. My argument is that the growth rate increase you gain from upping CO2 levels won't be enough to offset your initial investment. Additionally, increased CO2 rates will ONLY increase growth potential if you provide a corresponding increase in light and nutrient levels. photosynthesis is far more than just a one part equation, you can't just increase one portion and expect the result to be dramatically different.

As for the CO, N2O, NO and NO2 that will possibly be released from incomplete combustion, those are toxic to humans, but not to plants. I assume if you have a sealed grow room you're also going to have automated watering, and won't be spending much time in there. in that case, it's pretty much a non-issue.

and yes, I have worked with CO2. not just tinkering around in my grow room, but in University funded professional greenhouse experiments using controls plots vs numerous alternate variables to influence growth rates. CO2 enrichment was just the start, and I've participated in peer reviewed, published journal studies regarding indoor horticulture.
This isn't just a hobby for me, it's my job.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: co2 production and venting [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #315853 - 11/15/09 12:16 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Well yeah every grow book on earth spouts that crap but it has been proven by growers time and time again that having a good airflow is just as good. That is the main reason every seed breeder in Holland stopped using it and went to airflow.

Now that I see your trying to keep from venting ok. How big is the room, why the burner? How do you plan to cool the lights and room? I recommend water cooling on the lights. No venting and it's pretty much silent.

Gonna need to dehumidify the room also. Sealed rooms are cool but costly as hell but since money isn't a object get that stuff and go digital on the ballasts. You'll have a fully sealed room and totally silent.


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: co2 production and venting [Re: Magash]
    #315880 - 11/15/09 01:24 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

The room is pretty damn big, about 1900 cubic feet.  In a basement, it stays very cool naturally.  Lights are cooled with air, running from outside, through the lights and back out.  Completely contained. 

The burner is what i decided to go with years ago, so I still have it.


I have always had great results using co2, i like it.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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