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Its been a while, but I finally have a place and the time to start up a new room. The previous owner of my house finished a portion of the attic space as a storage closet (insulation, an outlet, drywall). Here is the general layout.
The isometric drawing is looking up from below the floor, towards the back wall. This viewpoint shows the rather wonky ceiling arrangement.
Anyway, given the dimensions available, and my want for options (one strong sativa for daytime activities and weekends, and a strong indica to help relax and sleep after a long day), I was thinking of setting up 2 small grow areas along the back wall, 3.5 ft x 3.5 ft each. The area on the left will be for shorter indicas and the area on the right will be for taller sativas.
The ceilings and external walls of the combined grow areas will be covered in mylar film, with no wall between them. I plan on using 1 light above each grow area (2 total lights). Any suggestions on the wattage for each light?
There will be two intake vents installed, one opening into a closet (65-75 degree F air), and a damper-controlled one opening into the attic space (for colder air during late flowering, to try and induce any color potential, I'm only planning on growing during cold weather and exhausting into the house, so the heat helps to reduce my heating costs during the winter). Two fans will pull room air from the ceiling via 2 activated carbon can filters, through the light fixtures, to the fans, and then exhaust through a muffler into the adjacent bedroom (an HVAC return in the bedroom will then circulate the hot air into the rest of the house).
I would like to be able to use a hydroponic system, as I already have an RO filter system for my aquarium, and enjoy the ability to precisely dial in nutrient exposure. Unfortunately, my ceiling height is limited for most of the grow area, and so trays/tables will cut into my allowable plant height. I have decided to go without light reflectors so that I can run my cooltubes up as close to the ceiling as I can, but I am looking for some suggestions on which hydroponic/aeroponic system to use. I currently have a full time job and a pretty busy life, so ease of use and as forgivable a system as possible is a primary concern. I also have that extra space in the front left corner of the room where I can place my reservoir, fans, and controls. Suggestions on both system and room configuration are welcome.
I could use some serious help with strain selection. I was thinking Euphoria for my sativa, but I've also always wanted to grow Super Lemon Haze (not sure if I have the headspace for it though, feel free to weigh in on this, or suggest a strain with similar characteristics to either Euphoria or Super Lemon Haze. Yield is not too important for my sativa, but obviously the more the better
As for my indica strain, I'm looking for higher yields, short/compact growth for the limited headspace, extremely relaxing and sleep-inducing, and maybe more of a fruity flavor (the flavor is not too important, more of a preference).
So there you have it. I'm currently looking for any suggestions given my current situation...but the main questions I have are for:
-Wattage of each light (they both will be digital and MHS/HPS switchable). -Type of hydroponics system, and best layout of the system for my room. -Strain selection for both my sativa and indica grow areas. I will be growing from seed for a bit, until I can get a cloner and veg room set up in my garage or other attic space. I figured I would just buy 10 seeds of each strain, sprout 2-4 seeds per grow area, and after 1 or two grow cycles, sprout the remainder and devote the entire growth cycle to production of feminized seeds.
Thanks in advance guys and gals, I've been out of the game for a while, and could use all the help you all are willing to offer. &
-------------------- “The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
If your worried about height on those wonky ceiling you could consider autoflowers until you find a good short strain.
Super Lemon Haze is a good one, a fine strain I wanted to grow again. Its on my list to keep an eye out for. It was in my first garden along with Jack Herer. I'd also recommend that as well. Some of the dankest weed smell I've ever encountered was around the Jack Herer plant while it was still in veg. It was phenomenal. Also on the list of strains to look out for.
SLH from my firs garden
Kushes are a nice addition to any selection. Wide variety and just gotta find that one you like.
Not sure if you need 10 of each seed, clones are easy to take. You can literally just stick it in soil with no additives and have a fair chance of getting it to root. You can keep them small and under a very small light to prevent much growth. Then when your ready to keep it you can transplant it and get it up to mother-plant size. you can fit 18 square pots in a tray 1x2'
If you can afford 10 each do it, but you'd probably be better off with a larger variety but only a couple each. Feminized seeds only take 1 to sample a strain. Its good in the beginning to get an idea of what your after.
Plus you probably wont need to order more seeds once you've got plants going, so get a good variety when you do. Keep a small clone of each plant that you put in flower so you can save it if needed. Wait until the bud has been cured before deciding to get rid of it. Some bud won't taste good until its cured. Bubblegum for example didn't impress me one bit until I lost/found the jar after a few months. Amazing strain when done right.
I like growing in coco, check the links in the signature to see what I've been up to.
The problem with exhausting into your house is the added humidity. It will feel like a sauna and toilet will sweat like crazy.
Grand Daddy Purple comes to mind for fruity. I grew Grapegod for a long time. It had a floral/fruity flavor to it. Somewhat reminiscent of Nag Champa incense sometimes, but also rose like at times.
-------------------- Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED “Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
Thanks psychotron! it looks like the SLH doesn't get too tall for my sativa area, at least with a little topping and LST I also like the idea of only getting a few seeds of a large variety, maybe i could set up my garden so that the tallest sativas are on the right, shortest autos or LST'd indicas on the left, and arrange the other varieties in between in order of short to tall, left to right.
After visiting my local hydro shop, I am considering two 315W ceramic metal halide lights, one for each side. This consideration is based not only on reduced power consumption and heat generation, but also on the quality of the light spectrum (psychotron, this goes back to another thread on UVB and other bands that more closely mimic equatorial sunlight. I have read that 315W CMH can yield about as much in a 3.5x3.5 foot area as up to 600W HPS equivalent, but even if it doesn't live up to that potential on my first grow, I can always add some LEDs to beef up the effective lux. If I were to compare the cost to a couple of 600W digital/switchable MH/HPS ballasts (I'm not going to buy cheap ballasts as the threat of RF emissions is too high, and not going to buy cheap bulbs because I'm a firm believer of getting a good quality spectrum), then 2x $150-170 ballasts + 2x both $40-50 MH and HPS bulbs works out to comparable or more expensive than 2x CMH ballasts and 2 4200K CMH bulbs. Does anybody have an experience with CMH?
As for the hydro system, I'm still torn. The drip system is what I've used in the past (hydroton as the media), but because of the gravity-fed return system, there is at least 2-3 combined feet of reservior/tray/container height, which on the left side really leaves little room for my plants and lights. I'm thinking about doing a bucket-based ebb and flow system like the picture below. The reservior and control bucket (the 5 gallon bucket) allow for the growth media and its container (the smaller buckets with a mesh top) to sit directly on the floor. This will give me a good 2-2.5 feet of plant space on the left side (depending on light placement), and tons of room on the right side of the room (7+ feet).
Also, I'm trying to decide on a nutrient line. I would like to keep my conscience in check, so if there are any product lines that procure/produce their nutrients in a more sustainable/environmentally-friendly way, then I'd love to know about it. I plan on following up this post with some online research on that very topic. Besides that, I'm looking for a nutrient line that either you guys have had good experience with, something that isn't too terrible difficult to mix up or keep ph balanced. I've got a chemistry background, so I'm not too worried about the theory or practice of mixing nutes, more just the time investment per week.
TLDR:
-Thanks to psychotron for actually answering, there seems to be a lot less people around here to help a guy out lately, and you're awesome for being there and not just lurking -2x 315W CMH or 2x 600W MH/HPS...which do you prefer and why? -Hydro system, thinking about something similar to the pick above, got any suggestions as far as pros/cons, things to look out for, etc? Know of anything that might work better in my situation? (See 3rd paragraph for details) -What nutrient lineup uses sustainable methods to procure/produce their products, which ones are easiest to use, which ones perform the best for you, etc? -Any suggestions on additives that boost harvest weight, trichome concentration, etc. I seem to remember Gravity or Snow Storm from way back, as an example.
Thanks guys and gals, &
-------------------- “The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
For nutes I would recommend the pure blend pro series. You can also add a sweetener to bulk up the buds and get more weight. I used botanicare sweet raw with good results.
Plant height can be a total bitch to manage. If you have flood trays on the ground you'll have to figure out a way to drain them and when you lift the tray up for plumbing you loose valuable head space for the plants. Plan to flush the plants before they're huge. I used to move my plants to the bathroom to flush them because it was too hard to pass that much water through the root zone when the plant was in the garden. When they're small its not too tough but can present a major challenge when they get larger and weighed down.
I've never worked with MH per se but an HID in a small room will add a substantial amount of radiant heat that might be difficult to manage. Ventilation is the hardest part mostly because your source and output areas are constantly changing with the seasons. What works in the winter might not be very good in the summer time. You might need to reconfigure and reroute ventilation until you find a manageable solution. You basically just have to set something up and dial it in as needed. Every garden is different. Ventilation is key to a successful garden.
For nutrients I went with Canna for simplicity and reliability. It holds up really well in the nutrient tank, better than most for longevity. Then I hacked the formula a bit to reduce costs. Its all in my signature if you want the details of what I recommend. Canna has a Keep It Simple attitude and doesn't try and sell you a bunch of different bottles to satisfy your urge to fertilize. They basically re-invented growing with coco and is the reason why everyone uses it indoors today. It was their research and development that pushed the medium to be as popular as it is. Prior to that coco was used as a soil amendment but not treated well enough to use as a primary medium. They do things a very specific way based on actual research, not traditional knowledge of what's 'good' for the plant. Like they don't like perlite because the way the roots and nutrients interact with the medium is not as efficient as coco. All in the name of 'drainage' which is determined by the aggregate composition of the coir--the reason I like their coco is that they claim to blend the coir/chip/pith to get the perfect air-moisture content when drained naturally.
Do not buy ANYTHING the hydro store recommends before you do some research on the product and see if its right for you. They get paid to sell you useless shit all day and will try and get you a bottle or two of extra shit per visit. It turns out the staff knows mostly NOTHING about a product and will recommend it based on arbitrary reasons, always with the claim that other people love it. If you keep talking to them a lot of time you'll get "I've never actually used it, but I've heard.. " or sometimes they save that information until you confront them on its effectiveness.
They really enjoy selling you stuff that just doesn't quite work but does a decent job nonetheless. Then say things like "oh whats that, lights not strong enough, maybe you need to add this too!" as they nickle and dime you. Some places are knowledgeable and honest but a lot are lucrative business with poorly trained staff. Its your responsibility to know if they're full of shit or not. Just because the sales person acts confident doesn't mean they're backing it up with valid research.
The main problem with hydro store recommendations is that they're piecing together products from different lines and neglect any larger system the manufacture might be going for. They don't know Canna does things very specifically for a reason and are willing to sell you something outside of that system. For example they might recommend amending their coco with perlite neglecting the fact that Canna is completely against perlite. They either don't know or don't care; just trying to make a sale. Canna also doesn't sell a beneficial bacterial product or recommend using one (as the coco is pre treated with tricoderma) but they will try and sell you one all the time.
Its your responsibility to build your garden system, not the guy at the store. Cause he'll keep spending your money.
If you do get an LED avoid the hydro store models, the economics of getting the fixtures to the market make them somewhat inferior for the most part. They'll claim they're just as good but hydro stores never seem to carry the best LED's.
Good luck on everything.
-------------------- Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED “Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
Forgot to mention that Auto's want 18 hours of light, not 12. So if you have them in your flower room you'll be shorted. Its good for a starter crop so that they're flowering when your vegging your next plants.
If you want to keep your plants short you just have to put them into flower earlier so that when they stretch you don't have a monster on your hands.. They get bigger than you think. Here's Grapegod
Day 3:
Day 13:growing fast
Day 23: final height
Day 51: early harvest
-------------------- Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED “Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
Quote: phychotron said: Forgot to mention that Auto's want 18 hours of light, not 12. So if you have them in your flower room you'll be shorted. Its good for a starter crop so that they're flowering when your vegging your next plants.
If you want to keep your plants short you just have to put them into flower earlier so that when they stretch you don't have a monster on your hands.. They get bigger than you think. Here's Grapegod
Day 3:
Day 13:growing fast
Day 23: final height
Day 51: early harvest
I would do 24/0 with autos. Just seems more beneficial.
The one I posted isn't an auto. I just put it there to show how much larger a plant can get. That's nothing compared to how big and stretched out something like Chemdawg will get. Sometimes there's nothing you can do to stop it.
Auto's don't usually get very big but have been getting larger overall as more people are developing them. I've heard of auto's that are suppose to get about as big as the last plant I posted. I've only grown short ones, ~18" tall.
-------------------- Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED “Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
Yea I've done some autos before, they turned out nice but I'm ready to attempt some SCROG to get my yields up.
BTW as an update, I determined that I didn't have the cash for a full hydro system, so for the time being I'm going to to 4x 10 gallon soil bags in a 4x4x6.5 tent, using a single 600W digital switchable MH/HPS light. I'll be using FF ocean forest for the base soil, dressing with worm castings when I switch to flowering and again halfway through flowring, and watering with diluted seaweed extract with Ph adjusted to 6.8 or so.
Are there any simple suggestions on feeding, or will this mixture be good enough to get through a 4-5 week veg time and an 8-10 week flooring period?
-------------------- “The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
So as an update, I've got my seeds (Medibud Feminized for now, but I also got some free AK-47 and Super Sour Berry Feminized for later).
I'm still waiting for my ballast to come in (I think it may have dissapeared into the USPS black hole). So thats really all thats holding me up right now.
I figured I would go ahead and pop some seeds this weekend and get them set up under some T5 fluorescents, and I have a decent LED light that can manage for the first few weeks of vegetative growth. If my ballast doesn't show up soon I may just order another...and just have two whenever the first one arrives (I plan on doubling my grow space at some time in the future anyway).
In the interim, I'm building a sound-reducing enclosure for my inline fan, and may look into building some sort of duct muffler to tie into the exhaust duct leaving my grow room. I've seen a few designs out there, so it shouldn't be too difficult to set up.
Hopefully in the next few weeks I'll be able to start a grow journal. I'll link it once everything gets going.
&
-------------------- “The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
Everyone loves a good fan silencer. They're hard to build. I was just setting mine up the other day and had to find some stuff to reduce vibration.
I've found that a large fan on low is much better than a small fan on high.
-------------------- Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED “Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
Definitely, large fans on low speed decrease the local turbulence inside the fan, and larger ducts reduce flow velocity (and turbulence, and thus noise) without sacrificing flow rate. In fact, larger duct reduces resistance to flow, and is less likely to transfer heat on its way out of your room.
For right now, I have to stick to a little 4" fan, as it was all I could afford. I'll eventually upgrade to something nicer when I can save up some $$$
-------------------- “The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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Bamboo Bongs I make
I also like the idea of only getting a few seeds of a large variety, maybe i could set up my garden so that the tallest sativas are on the right, shortest autos or LST'd indicas on the left, and arrange the other varieties in between in order of short to tall, left to right.
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HOW I GROW MY SHROOMS
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