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InvisibleDataM
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General Science Thread
    #817989 - 08/10/16 07:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

For general science discussion, questions, or thoughts that you guys have but don't want to devote an entire thread to...just throw it in here and we can talk about it a little.

Please keep the dicussion polite, we can joke around without turning into a shit show.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #817994 - 08/10/16 10:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thoughts or his puppet got to ya huh....

Yeah he can do that. Spews a bunch of stuff but then won't back it up but he does liven it up for a bit till he gets butthurt and the insults start. :nono:

I got into it with him on UFO's. He said they have been here I said nope and it just flew from there. Was fun for a bit though.......:facepalm3:



:ufo::happyweed::ufo:


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Magash]
    #817999 - 08/10/16 11:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Haha he's a trip, that's for sure.

But it did get the brain juices flowing, and reminded me just how much I love science-related discussion. I'm fine with a little poking fun at each other, but I posted it in the smoke lounge in the hopes that we can get something going without worry about the feeble-minded insults that some threads quickly deteriorate into.

:pipesmoke:


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InvisibleChemical Addiction
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818005 - 08/10/16 11:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So people are saying that it's difficult or not cost effective to make ocean water drinkable, I was also told that reverse osmosis can remove everything thing from water including the minerals your body needs. What if you took everything out of sea water except the water and then dumped it into the ground to add the minerals you need and raise the water table?

I get random ass thoughts like this going through my head when i'm working but don't always remember them. If I do I will certainly bring them to this thread


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #818009 - 08/11/16 01:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

So people are saying that it's difficult or not cost effective to make ocean water drinkable,



Not sure of the cost effective part.
But simply distilling ocean water maakes it very drinkable.


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Stoneth]
    #818016 - 08/11/16 11:08 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yea, the main limiting factor to desalination is energy costs.

Chemical, they actually do use reverse osmosis (membrane desalination) in many new plants through out the world, as it s currently the most efficent desalination process.

A other succesfully implemented method is to vaporize the water under a vacuum, using rhe waste heat from a local power plant. While the efficiency of the distillation process is terrible, the fact that you are using waste heat from a power plant (that was going to be generat ed and wasted anyway) kinda makes up for it.

With membrane desalination (reverse osmosis), a membrane acts as a molecular filter, and dirty water is pumped across the membrane. This requires that some part of the "dirty water" be diverted away from the membrane, in order to keep the dirty side from acculumating too many salts (the higher the difference in salt concentration across the membrane, the harder it is to pump the dirty water across it). So any places where water is very scarce would have some difficulties sacrificing the water needed to keep the membranes clean.

Even the most efficient membrane designs bottom out at about 2kWh/m3 of water, with most operating plants in the 6 - 17 kWh/m3. This is, at best, 10 times the maximum energy requirements for freshwater capture, treatment, and pumping.

Additionally, any solid salts obtained from the process are water soluble, and placing them in the ground would result in poisoning of clean groundwater supplies. Although, the salts could possibly be uses for seasoning (sea salt), road salts, and certain uncommon metals such as manganese, magnesium, and uranium could be further refined from the waste minerals. There is definitely some potential for reclaiming billions of years of natural mining (erosion).

I've always thought that the extremely dry desert regions near certain coat lines of Africa and South America could be utilized for slow but steady solar distillation, as the lack of rain in the atacama desert would prevent too much spread of waste salts and there is little to no interupption in the supply of solar energy. But the cost of construction, and the potential piping system needed to pump the water inland would vastly outweigh the savings in energy costs. :shrug:

It's definitely an interesting topic, and one that's quickly becoming much more important now that water scarcity is becoming a bigger problem.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818018 - 08/11/16 12:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I know growing and some astronomy but cleaning water...........way over my head apparently. I do know if I don't use distilled water when making my spray to make feminized seeds it will hardly work.


:happyweed:


--------------------
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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Magash]
    #818019 - 08/11/16 12:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Is that colloidal silver in your sprays?


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818023 - 08/11/16 05:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Nah...When I make seeds I use STS or 1-Methylcyclopropene which are ethylene blockers as is colloidal silver there just better at it.


:happyweed:


--------------------
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InvisibleChemical Addiction
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818028 - 08/11/16 07:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I like your answers agmotes, you don't go out of your way to use big words, I generally understand what you're saying. But I wasn't talking about putting the salts and other minerals/metals back into the ground after the RO process, I meant dump the water into the ground so that it would pick up the minerals our bodies need. Would that have a negative effect on the ground water supply, plants or life in general?


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #818031 - 08/11/16 07:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Oh I gotcha, and yea that's a great way to constantly generate drinking water and store it for future use without risking significant losses from evaporation. :thumbup:

I can't see any problems with doing that besides the risk of accidental release of contaminates or microbes into a large aquifer...but then again that risk is already present when you start poking wells into an aquifer.

That would also work extremely well in high elevation, desert location for solar distillation. Once the seawater is pumped into surface ponds covered by a clear material (glass or plastic). The clear panes or sheets act to trap the water vapor that forms, and are tilted towards a collector system, such that water condensing on the inner surface drips down into the collection system. The collection system could act like a sewer, directing condensate (clean water) by gravity to a single well. This would allow the clean water to just feed the aquifer below via gravity, as it is created, and the depth of the well pipe would provide the pressure needed to drive fresh water into all of the aquifer volume.

Then, anyone living above the aquifer could just tap into it, rather than running crazy long piping systems from the desalination plant.

That's a pretty solid idea man! Sounds like a feasibility study might be the next step.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818032 - 08/11/16 07:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The way you describe the surface ponds and evaporation, reminds me of something I learned in school.

There is a shitload of prickly pear cactus where I live. They are mostly water but there is something in it that dehydrates you. So if you are lost in the desert and need water, you dig a hole, skin some of the cactus and put it in the hole, with something to catch the water in the middle. Then you put plastic over it and put a rock in the center. The water evaporates out of the cacti, hits the tarp/plastic and slides down where the rock is weighing it down to fill the cup.


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #818034 - 08/11/16 07:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

That's actually where I've seen it before too, a way to reclaim water from say a disgusting mud-puddle, cactus (or really any plant material), or even your own urine.


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Invisibledrawde
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818035 - 08/11/16 08:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

If the location is already desert sure


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #818036 - 08/11/16 08:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Oh yea, you definitely need to make sure that the land for the solar desalination plant would have to be a barren wasteland in order to justify the magnitude of that kind of construction project.

For any other ecosystem, you would have to try and optimize the maximum water production while minimizing impacts to local marine and terrestrial ecosystems (in which case, a combined power/distillation plant or membrane plant would be the best choice). We need water, but not to the point that we set the world any further off balance, it kinda defeats the point.


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Invisiblepoor boy
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818041 - 08/11/16 10:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Why do i get sleepy at night?


--------------------
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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #818043 - 08/11/16 10:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Adenosine and Melatonin


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Invisiblepoor boy
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818045 - 08/11/16 10:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I stopped taking mel. I dont like the dreams.


--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #818046 - 08/11/16 10:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

But really, adenosine builds up as a natural byproduct of brain activity, which binds to adenosing receptors, causing vasodilation (lower blood pressure), and fatigue. Caffeine blocks these receptors, and thus fights fatigue (and causes vasoconstriction).

As the light levels go down at night, melatonin is produced in the brain, which is part of the circadian rythym that sigals the onset of sleep.

Production of melatonin is halted in the presence of blue light, which is why it's a good idea to put away cell phones and tablets before bed. For those people that have trouble sleeping or are suffering from jet lag, melatonin supplements are available to help reset the circadian rythym and as a sleep aid.

As to why we require sleep, there are tons of theories, and to be honest there are probably a ton of different things going on during sleep.

For instance, it's thought that larger, more active brains (such as our own) use sleep as a time to increase brain permeability, such that waste products that build up during the day can be washed away more completely, in order to get the brain chemistry to a very reliable baseline prior to starting back up with heavy activity during waking periods. Another theory is that sleep allows the brain to process through the days experiences, categorize, and burn high-priority stuff into longterm memory. Maybe it's all of the above, combined with the fact that most animals are evolved to survive better when active either during the day or during the night, because it's very difficult to do both without becoming incredibly inefficent...so by crawling into a safe place and staying quiet and still for the part of the day when we are most likely to die helps to increase our chance of passing on our genetics, and thus sleep evolved as a natural advantage for most animals.

That's all I've got :shrug:


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #818048 - 08/11/16 10:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

poor boy said:
I stopped taking mel. I dont like the dreams.




Same here, shit gets crazy if I take it before bed.


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Invisiblepoor boy
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818050 - 08/11/16 11:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Hows about this one...

A mirror reflects all color and light, correct? Then why is the color of the mirror silver?

:mindblown:


--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better


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InvisibleChemical Addiction
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #818060 - 08/12/16 07:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Hey agmotes, what do you think it will take for us to reach other planets in the "goldilocks zone" and possibly find other life, or just to explore beyond our front door.

I believe it will take the death of this planet before we allocate the time/resources to figure out how traverse space. This idea first came to me when I saw a bumper sticker about strip mining. I thought "maybe strip mining can be a good thing" For the human race anyways not the millions of other lifeforms here.

We spend time/resources and brain power researching thimgs that don't really progress the race of man just distract them or makes them feel pretty. Once this planet is irredeemable we won't be studying new cosmetics, or how to use advertisement to sell product, we would focus on the survival of the species.


--------------------
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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy] * 1
    #818063 - 08/12/16 08:50 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

poor boy said:
Hows about this one...

A mirror reflects all color and light, correct? Then why is the color of the mirror silver?

:mindblown:




Silver isn't really a color, since you can't make it with any of the primary colors. Silver or "metallic" describes the way that the light is reflected.

Reflection happens when materials absorb incoming photons, and immediately re-emit photons back out into the surroundings. The structure and general optical properties of the material determine how this is done. For instance, in a material that is a certain color, only certain wavelengths are efficiently re-emitted, while the rest of the incoming photons are converted to heat in the material.

In silvery/metallic or white materials, almost all incoming photon energy is re-emitted. The difference between white and metallic is the depth of interaction.

Most uniformly white substances are partially transluscent, i.e. they allow light to penetrate many hundreds of atoms (or more) down below the surface. This allows the photons to be absorbed and re-emitted many different times on its way into and then back out of the material, much like a pinball bounding around a pinball machine. This ultimately randomizes the paths of the exiting photons, and causes a loss (or random dispersion) of any information that the photons were carrying when they first arrived. This results in a uniform white light, without an semblance of reflected images. Optical properties of certain materials (ie not maintaining the original velocity (direction) of the photon during absorption/emission) amd surface properties (very rough surfaces) will enhance this dispersion effect.

Metallic surfaces, on the other hand, only allow penetration into the first few atomic layers of the surface, greatly reducing the randomization of information in the photons. This results in a clear image of the source of the photons in the surface, which if given a color based purely on the wavelengths of light reflected, would classify as white...but because it doesn't look like what we all normally consider to be the color white, we call it silver or metallic. :bobmarley:

As a final note, mirrors dont reflect all light, just a large majority of visible light. This is why if you place two mirrors so that they are facing each other, the infinite series of images created seems to fade off into a green haze. The glass and metallic backing are absorbing a small portion of the photons each time they bounce off the mirror, and the glass absorbs less green light than other wavelengths, so the last few reflections are the last bit of green light that hasn't been absorbed yet.


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #818070 - 08/12/16 02:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chemical Addiction said:
Hey agmotes, what do you think it will take for us to reach other planets in the "goldilocks zone" and possibly find other life, or just to explore beyond our front door.

I believe it will take the death of this planet before we allocate the time/resources to figure out how traverse space. This idea first came to me when I saw a bumper sticker about strip mining. I thought "maybe strip mining can be a good thing" For the human race anyways not the millions of other lifeforms here.

We spend time/resources and brain power researching thimgs that don't really progress the race of man just distract them or makes them feel pretty. Once this planet is irredeemable we won't be studying new cosmetics, or how to use advertisement to sell product, we would focus on the survival of the species.



I hear ya, and you're right, it may take something crazy like a mass die-off of a significant portion of the world population, the discovery of life elsewhere (especially intelligent life), or a partial collapse of a major portion of the world biome in order to shake people's heads out of their asses.

We also have to remember that, with the exception of solar energy (which is still not a viable solution), we only have access to finite energy sources (fossil, nuclear, and geothermal being the larest and easiest to harness in large quantities. If we piddle around wasting the large energy stores, and run out of them prior to development of solid space travel technology, then we will be stuck wasting time trying to develop a technology that is power hungry, has unique chemical and physical requirements, all on the scraps that are left over after we use up all of the rare metals and semiconductors on entertainment purposes.

And that doesn't even take into account the increasing problem of space garbage building up in orbit. If a major collision were to take place in orbit, it could spawn a runaway series of collisions that spread into other orbits, and forms a shell of small, high speed debris that would make launches into space impossible for at least a few hundred years. This is called Kessler Syndrome, and the more garbage that we leave in orbit, the greater the chances are of this occuring, setting us back centuries or even imprisoning us on a dying planet.

As far as getting to an exoplanet in a nearby solar system, there are two options; multi-generational/longterm (stasis) space travel at subluminal (slower than light) speed, or superluminal  (faster than light) speed travel. Both are currently out of our reach. :shrug:

In my opinion, you have a much better chance of preserving humans, building robots that can raise humans once the ship arrives, or building a ship (or ships) that can house many generations of humans for centuries than we have of breaking the current laws of physics or producing exotic matter that would be required for superluminal travel.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818072 - 08/12/16 07:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

is most of the debri metal? maybe we could use magnets to pull the debri down at just the right angle so it burns up In the atmosphere. I saw that on an episode of eureka, what a great show. There is an EM barrier over the entire city and one of the scientist magnetized it not intending to pull metal out of orbit, then they had to figure out how to save everyone by burning up the space junk before it destroyed the west coast USA


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #818078 - 08/12/16 11:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yea we could do that for part of the debris, but a lot of it is diamagnetic material, meaning that it doesn't react strongly to magnetic fields. It would also be very tricky to control and coordinate orbital maneuvers between either extremely distant magnets, or magnets on board another object in orbit. Even the slightest force between two objects can throw both of the object's orbits off.

I think current protocol for aging satellites is to initiate a controlled re-entry so that the satellite burns up in the atmosphere rather than float out there in orbit, loses contact with the control team, drifts out of orbit, and crashes into something else. That being said, there are several large satellites that have broken in orbit and are now adrift, some weighing as much as 18,000 lbs (Envisat)...which could generate some serious debris if they were to impact something else in orbit. :awesurprise:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818085 - 08/13/16 09:55 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I like that lake that has a huge hole which all the water drains into, but the lake never dries up.


--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #818094 - 08/13/16 06:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:shrug:

I didn't know that such a thing existed.

Preeze, tell me more :pipesmoke:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818099 - 08/13/16 07:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)



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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #818373 - 08/21/16 07:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So I was thinking more about the space junk orbiting out planet, stuff in space is weightless right? Couldn't we send a drone and a large net up to the international space station, one of the Astronauts could use the drone to gather up the debris in the net and then send it flying into the sun (making sure it doesn't get close enough to venus/mercury to change the course it's on). I imagine a drone smaller than a person dragging a net/sack the size of a house. I realize this would take forever since the planet is huge.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #818389 - 08/21/16 02:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The guy flying the drone will have to be one hell of a badass cause some of that space junk travels at 17500 mph.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/news/orbital_debris.html


Plus it's gonna have to be a pretty killer drone.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Magash]
    #818393 - 08/21/16 05:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the link, they say the debris travel at up to 17.5k mph but does not give an average speed, I wonder how many are actually going that fast. I had no idea how fast they were moving, I thought they were just kind of floating in orbit slowly going around the planet as it spins. That make the problem much worse than I had envisioned it.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction] * 1
    #818401 - 08/21/16 07:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chemical Addiction said:
Thanks for the link, they say the debris travel at up to 17.5k mph but does not give an average speed, I wonder how many are actually going that fast. I had no idea how fast they were moving, I thought they were just kind of floating in orbit slowly going around the planet as it spins. That make the problem much worse than I had envisioned it.





Well you have to remember the international space station travels at 17,150 miles per hour (that's about 5 miles per second!) itself. So in some cases a net may work but in other cases when they are coming straight at ya it's their speed plus yours combined for 36650 mph.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+fast+is+the+iss+traveling&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


Remember the earth itself moves around the sun at 67000 mph and spins at 460 meters per second--or roughly 1,000 miles per hour.


https://www.google.com/search?q=how+fast+is+the+iss+traveling&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=how+fast+is+the+earth+moving+around+the+sun


The fastest thing man made is NASA'S Juno Mission spacecraft will slingshot around Earth towards Jupiter, accelerating to 25 miles per second along the way and becoming the fastest man-made object in history. A .50-caliber bullet travels at about half a mile a second, by contrast -- nowhere near the blistering speed of Juno


To nearest star to us is 4.24 light years away and the fastest thing we have would take 54000 years to get there.


http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-resources/far-closest-star/


The closest planet other then earth that has water on it and is assumed to be the nearest planet that can support life is Kepler-186f and it's 500 light years away. That is traveling at 186000 miles a second for 500 years.

https://www.google.com/search?q=closest+planet+that+can+support+life&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Magash]
    #818402 - 08/21/16 07:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Fucking interesting

Cheers


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #818404 - 08/21/16 09:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yea, anything in orbit around the earth is constantly being pulled toward the earth, and thus must be moving pretty fast in order to maintain orbit.

Even in geosynchronous orbit, where the satellite is floating stationary with respect to the earth's surface, it must be moving at roughly 6900 mph relative to the earth's center.

Most of the space junk is in low earth orbit (LEO), where the gravitational pull is strongest, and 17,000+ mph is a pretty standard velocity for anything in a mostly circular, stable LEO.

The best way to move stuff like that around is to slightly change its direction and use its momentum to carry it where you want it. This requires precise knowledge of its mass, mass distribution, materials, etc.

And despite the fact that these things are travelling incredibly fast in LEO, they still require crap loads of energy to push put beyond the earth's gravitational influence.

Space is a bitch :shrug:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818412 - 08/21/16 11:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

agmotes165 said:
Space is a bitch :shrug:



I knew one o my ex's left Texas.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818423 - 08/22/16 09:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

What if we put big-ass rare earth magnets up there to collect shit into large easier to manage masses?
I guess the distances between things are just far too great. Unless there were someway to oscillate said magnets across trajectories.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #818424 - 08/22/16 09:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It'd be nice to get that shit cleaned up one way or another


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #818425 - 08/22/16 09:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Some threads round these parts suck so hard they are pullin space debris as we speak.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #818433 - 08/22/16 10:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

drawde said:
What if we put big-ass rare earth magnets up there to collect shit into large easier to manage masses?
I guess the distances between things are just far too great. Unless there were someway to oscillate said magnets across trajectories.





Teach death row inmates to fly giant shuttles equipped with huge electromagnets. Once they have collected a few tons of garbage you hit the auto pilot down here from earth and the death row inmate along with the garbage fly into the sun.


Sorry man I been dabbing hard today


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Magash]
    #818445 - 08/23/16 04:11 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:ohyou:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818448 - 08/23/16 07:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

agmotes mentioned earlier that a lot of the debris isn't very magnetic, I asked if we could use magnets to pull the debris into the atmosphere at an angle that would burn it up before hitting the ground.
Quote:

agmotes165 said:
Yea we could do that for part of the debris, but a lot of it is diamagnetic material, meaning that it doesn't react strongly to magnetic fields. It would also be very tricky to control and coordinate orbital maneuvers between either extremely distant magnets, or magnets on board another object in orbit. Even the slightest force between two objects can throw both of the object's orbits off.

I think current protocol for aging satellites is to initiate a controlled re-entry so that the satellite burns up in the atmosphere rather than float out there in orbit, loses contact with the control team, drifts out of orbit, and crashes into something else. That being said, there are several large satellites that have broken in orbit and are now adrift, some weighing as much as 18,000 lbs (Envisat)...which could generate some serious debris if they were to impact something else in orbit. :awesurprise:




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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #818449 - 08/23/16 07:49 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

how often does this debris enter the atmosphere on its own? or does it stay in orbit? I was just wondering if some of the "shooting stars" people see aren't actually space junk burning up as it decends.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #818466 - 08/23/16 10:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

There are several ways an orbit can lose energy. The most significant mode is through air drag, as the atmosphere does extend over 1000 miles above the surface of the earth (although it gets crazy thin up here). We'll focus on air drag since all other loss modes are negligible compared to this one.

Air pressure varies in low earth orbit from 700 nanopascals at 160km to about 10 nanopascals at 2000km. Since air pressure with respect to altitude is generally a linear relationship above the mesopause, we can easily come up with a y=ax+b style equation for air pressure P(h) through low earth orbit. If we apply the ideal gas law and plug in our pressure function, then a function for air density as a function of height rho(h) can be derived.

P(h) = (-3.75 e-13)h + 7e-7

rho(h) = (-1.64 e-18)h + 3.06e-12

If we look at the definition of drag force:

Fd = (1/2)rho(u2)CdA

where:

rho = rho(h)
u = velocity (m/s)
Cd = Drag coefficient
A = projected area of object (m2)

and consider the example of a standard 1U frame cubesat with the following characteristics:

m = 1.33 kg
Cd = 0.925 (average from tables)
A = .1 m * .1135 m = .01135 m2

and place it at the initial height and velocity of:

uinitial = 17500 mph = 7823.2 m/s
hinitial = about 141,430 meters above earth

then our drag function becomes

Fd = 0.00525u2rho(h)

our acceleration (slowing down) due to drag becomes

a = Fd/m = 0.00395u2rho(h)

and our velocity equation with respect to time (t) becomes:

u(t) = uinitial - a*t = 7823.2 - a*t

Now, because this drag force is so small, and the drop in orbit will occur very slowly, it is safe to assume that the difference in centrifugal force (the imaginary force that flings the object up) and gravitational force (the force pulling the object down) are in balance. This will allow us to define the height above the ground as a function of velocity:

Fc = centrifugal force = (m2u2)/r
Fg = gravitational force = (Gm1m2)/r2

Where:

m1 = mass of earth (5.972 e 24 kg)
m2 = mass of object (1.33 kg)
G = Gravitational constant
r = distance from center of earth to center of object = 6.371 e 6 meters + h

At this point, we can plug these definitions into a rough iterative spreadsheet, just to get a rough estimate of orbital decay time (this would take differential equations to actually solve the true path of the object, but the excel sheet will give us a pretty accurate result in this case).

I stepped the iteration time by 100 seconds per iteration, and calculated out 58 days in orbit (not 58 days until impact, its just that my calculation took up 50,000+ rows, and I got tired of running the simulation)...and only got a 380 meter loss of height (about 0.27% of the orbit height). Since our starting height was technically re-entered from the get-go (87 miles above the surface), a decay rate of 22 feet per day will be the absolute maximum decay rate a standard object will see up there.

The farther up you go, the slower you will need to go to maintain orbit (remember, geosynchronous sats are only moving at about 6900 mph, through much less dense air, and have a lot farther to decay (22,240 miles instead of 87 miles). Since the drag force depends on the density of the air, and strongly depends on velocity of the object, any objects in this area would be orbiting for a lonnnng time.

We won't even get into orbits higher than that...or the satellites that sit stationary with respect to earth in Lagrangian points. :nyan:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #818468 - 08/23/16 10:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Damn you made a simulation just to answer the question? that's what I call a devotion to science/math.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #818474 - 08/24/16 05:05 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:shrug: I called it a simulation, but it's really just a big excel table lol.

And yea man, I love this stuff and love discussing it with other people. Ideas and questions are how people learn and grow, and maybe even come up wits "the solution" for a particular problem. For insrance, after our discussions, you might ponder and research and figure out the space debris solution, and that would be badass! :highfive:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #819578 - 09/24/16 01:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Anybody excited for the Europa announcement from NASA on Monday? It's not aliens, but I'm sure it'll be exciting nonetheless. :dancingshroom:


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Edited by Data (09/24/16 01:51 PM)


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #819590 - 09/24/16 11:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

i read that a few days ago and instantly thought about you, in a non gay way... i think... yeah, not gay.


--------------------
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I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #819596 - 09/25/16 10:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

:notsureif::ancientaliens:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #820310 - 10/17/16 05:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

So I've been thinking about the space junk some more and if we can't use magnets, or drones to collect the debris could we physically deflect it with some sort of giant ramp like structure with basic maneuvering (up,down,left,right)?

Try and send it down at the correct angle to burn up the junk, or send it up to the edge of the of the gravitational pull of the planet to slow it down without sending it into space or hitting a satellite. Or finding a way to time the collision of the debri with the "ramp" and angle it properly to shoot it at the sun?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #820314 - 10/17/16 06:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

:bobmarley:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #820317 - 10/17/16 08:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

:shrug: I figured if the deflector was moving the same way as the debris, just a little bit slower it could deflect the debris without being damaged


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #822526 - 01/09/17 08:36 PM (3 years, 18 days ago)

how to build your own tractor beam



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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #822534 - 01/10/17 07:13 AM (3 years, 18 days ago)

That was pretty neat, we studied standing waves on steel beams under cyclic motion in school. If you take a rope or a slinky, let it hang vertically, and shake the top back and forth, at particular shaking frequencies the rope/slinky will take on this shape.

This is called a vibrational mode, or a standing wave. In reality, the waves aren't stationary, but rather the initial wave travels down the rope/slinky, is reflected in a particular manner determined by the configuration of the end of the beam (as in, whether its attached to a stationary wall/floor, or free swinging, etc.), and overlays back over the original waves on its way back to you're hand. At certain frequencies (natural frequencies), this overlay ensures that certain points on the rope/slinky never move back and forth. The points that aren't moving are called nodes, and the points that have the maximum movement are called antinodes. There are (theoretically) an infinite number of vibrational modes, and each mode comes with an increasing number of nodes/antinodes, spaced closer together along the lenght of the rope/slinky.

When you set up a flat, horizontal steel beam in this manner (you have to mount it to a giant speaker core and use a much higher frequency than you're hand can achieve), then you can sprinkle a little salt or sand over the beam and the sand will line up across the beam at the nodes when one of the natural frequencies is dialed in.


In two dimensions (a horizontal flat plate either supported at the edges or in free space with the same speaker core for vibration input), the different vibrational modes (when sprinkled with sand to highlight the node lines) form interesting patterns. In the video below, the plate is supported in the center, which is also the point at which the vibrational input is transmitted into the plate (aka a Chladni plate).


In the case of the tractor beam, it gets a little complicated. The vibrating medium is the air, the source wave does not move in a straight line but rather radiates out from the speaker in a 3D ripple pattern (much like the 2D ripple pattern radiating out from the Chladni Plate), and the source wave shape doesn't necessarily reflect back over itself to create the 3D standing wave. This is why you have multiple source speakers, so that each source wave overlays over each other to create a 3D field of quasi nodes and antinodes. You can manipulate the relative timing of the source waves to change the spatial locations of the nodes, and thus a small object trapped in a 3D node can move with the node's changing location.


Notice that the objects tend to vibrate or spin while they are levitating, this is because the standing waves are actually constantly changing in the space around node, but the changes happen so fast that the object (which has a very small resistance to acceleration due to its mass) can't get up enough speed to escape the node before the pressure differences across the object flip in the opposite direction, thus keeping the object forever vibrating around the node point indefinitely. In one of the videos you posted, you'll notice that when he puts his hand above the dish to demonstrate how high the ball could levitate, the little ball falls out of the node. This is because by placing his hand into the acoustic field radiating out from the dish, he temporarily reflects some of the sound back down towards the dish, and changes the vibrational mode (I think that he actually destroyed the node field temporarily). :shrug:

Standing waves can also occur with light. In fact, a standing light wave along a single axis is the heart and soul of all lasers. The optical material and length of the "resonating chamber" must be tailored to the frequency of light that you are trying to produce in order to work correctly. Additionally, complex 2D and 3D electron vibrational modes can be set up on metallic cylinders with various insulator materials to act as bandpass filters for microwave radio transmissions (used heavily in microwave ovens, cell phones, radioastronomy, radar, and high-bandwidth line-of-sight communications relays).

Basically, standing waves in any media are cool as shit :thumbup:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #822535 - 01/10/17 07:35 AM (3 years, 18 days ago)

I wonder if something like that would ever replace conveyor belts, instead of a table with a moving belt, you have a stationary table that you can float stuff over, just give it a little push and it slides down to the end. kind of like air hockey but it never touches the table so there is no friction allowing you to move the object much faster so long as you have a way to slow it down.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #822536 - 01/10/17 07:42 AM (3 years, 18 days ago)

actually not a table a duct, so you could have the speakers on all sides and try to keep the object in the middle, the duct could even curve, maybe a new way of shipping.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #822537 - 01/10/17 09:26 AM (3 years, 18 days ago)

That's always possible, although larger objects would require crazy high amplitude sound waves, and really large nodes. For that application, a high temperature superconductor table surface, and a large magnet tray (to hold the object) would get the effect you are looking for, and the lack of high amplitude vibrations would be less destructive to the objects being moved.



Then again, strong magnetic fields can also mess with certain objects too. :shrug:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #822568 - 01/11/17 11:58 AM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Oh this is a thing.
Oh your name is data now.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #822569 - 01/11/17 12:52 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Ya bruh :androidlol:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #822975 - 01/25/17 04:42 AM (3 years, 3 days ago)

Do u believe a monkey/human hybrid is possible?

If so, how much time into the future is needed to create such a beast?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #822976 - 01/25/17 06:49 AM (3 years, 3 days ago)

they already tired making one in the past, now we have aids....


on a more serious note, why would we mix a human and monkey? as technology advances we don't need more muscles we need long skinny fingers for precise work, suck as building/repairing electronics.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #822977 - 01/25/17 07:28 AM (3 years, 3 days ago)

Why?

So we can maybe communicate with apes and just for the kicks and giggles of having an advanced human-ape living thang.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 1
    #822990 - 01/26/17 04:53 AM (3 years, 2 days ago)

If the 'monkey' is a chimpanzee, then I think you could technically cross them using protoplast fusion, but because the two species only share the same taxonomic family (as opposed to more closely related species sharing the same genus), it would take countless attempts to get a successful fusant that doesn't later shed excess chromosomes and could grow out properly.

And then ultimately, you come to the ethical crossroads of having to implant such a hybrid into either a chimp or human mother in order to allow full development. The ethics of the whole thing is really the only thing preventing such a hybrid at this point. :shrug:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction] * 1
    #822996 - 01/26/17 12:48 PM (3 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Chemical Addiction said:
they already tired making one in the past, now we have aids....









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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #823024 - 01/26/17 09:35 PM (3 years, 1 day ago)

so u think its actually possible depsite both species only sharing the same family?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #823026 - 01/26/17 11:00 PM (3 years, 1 day ago)



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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #823042 - 01/27/17 03:32 PM (3 years, 1 day ago)

Animal Hybrids occur, in nature it generally allows diversity to continue to exist.

A contemporary example of this occurring in nature right now is the increased polar bear genes seen within grizzly bears (something I heard about years ago, and generally just assume has continued to happen as polar bears search for territory to the south).


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 1
    #823216 - 01/29/17 09:55 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

TrueHerbCrystal said:
Do u believe a monkey/human hybrid is possible?

If so, how much time into the future is needed to create such a beast?




Ahhhh....I can just see it now. Poor boy headed to the zoo with a bottle of champagne and a box of chocolates......:heart:



:happyweed:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Magash]
    #823219 - 01/29/17 11:23 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

:lol:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Stoneth]
    #823226 - 01/29/17 08:25 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)



Contrary to the common belief it is possible to train nematodes such as C. elegans using standard animal training methods (positive reinforcement and negative punishment). The animals shown in this video have been trained to crawl into a smiley face.. (Hint: Heads of worms are brighter than their tails)


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Magash]
    #823233 - 01/30/17 03:52 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

:lol:

Dont forget to romance them with a bundle of fresh bananas :wink:

I got another question: CBD is found mostly in the Rutellis (spelling?) species. Any theories of why its in those species and not sativa or indica species?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 1
    #823234 - 01/30/17 04:59 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I believe I recently posted about root-based applications of hexanoic acid to cannabis. One of the linked articles in that post talks about the relative expression of CBD synthesis enzymes in hemp cultivars, and discussed a theory for why this is. I would imagine that the explanation for C. ruderalis would be the same, since hemp growers were not focused on secondary metabolites when breeding hemp cultivars.

I honestly can't remember why, and I have to get ready for work, but I'll try and get back to this sometime today.:pipesmoke:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #823237 - 01/30/17 10:03 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

awesome, thanks Data.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #823363 - 02/02/17 08:53 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

So, I've been looking over several studies, and there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on the functions of the various cannabinoids.

The primary functions of the major cannabinoids are mostly shared, both THC and CBD absorb large amounts of UV radiation, and there seems to be a positive correlation between mild UV exposure and an increase in THC production.

CBD and CBC are very closely related from a structural standpoint, to the point where some types of resin content tests may not be able to tell the difference. CBCa, CBDa, and THCa all participate in necrosis of cannabis tissue by breaking down the membrane potential in mitochondria. This, combined with the many cannabinoids' antibacterial and anti-fungal properties...and their careful storage in delicate "bombs" at and above the flower surface, all suggest that these cannabinoids may be involved in a first line pathogen defense, and a "cut your losses and retreat" function in damaged tissues. This would all help to concentrate resources to only healthy flower tissue during seed development. If this effect works on other plant tissue, it could be a way for a newly stretched plant to cut its way through competing vegetation in a crowded canopy, thus providing adequate light to generate the energy stores for the batch of seeds it is trying to develop.

And so, we are only left with the one real difference between the cannabinoids, and that is the relative psychoactivity on animals. Many animal species' nervous systems are affected by THC, mainly in a depression effect. This would deter certain herbivores (or really any organism with cannabinoids receptors) from damaging the tender flower tissue. This could explain why natural populations in more equatorial climates (more likely to be plagued by bugs and herbivores) would naturally express a more psychoactive cannabinoid cocktail. Ruderalis typically grows in cooler or more harsh climates, with less insect and herbivore predators to worry about, and thus would be mainly defending against UV and pathogenic threats, thus eliminating the need to expend energy producing THC.

It could also just be a product of pseudoselective breeding, where more psychoactive strains of cannabis are more likely to be protected/propagated by early humans. :shrug:

TLDR: We don't know, but there are some neat theories out there to consider based on what we do know.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #823374 - 02/03/17 01:48 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Can u explain colors of light? Like 5000K and 6500k?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 3
    #823376 - 02/03/17 07:08 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Color temperature refers to the averaged color of light (the particular proportions of various wavelengths) that would be emitted by what's called an "ideal black body" at that temperature.

An ideal black body is a hypothetical surface that has an emissivity of exactly 1. It is called a black body because at normal room temperatures it absorbs all visible light that falls on it, and looks like a black void. A true black body only exists in the event horizon of a black hole, but the closest we've come so far is a nanostructure coating called vantablack.


A true black body emits electromagnetic radiation in a very predictable way, based solely on temperature of the black body. The amount of total radiation given off is described by three Stefan-Boltzmann Law. The spectral density of each wavelength as a function of temperature is given by Planck's Law and approximated by Wein'so Displacement Law. The latter two describe the visible color of the light emitted by the black body at higher temperatures.

Anot easier example that nearly everyone can relate to is extremely hot steel that glows red at first, then yellow at higher temperatures, then white at still higher temperatures. This also causes the yellow light from a stand and candle or lighter flame (the soot particles forming in the flame radiate the heat at the flame temperature, giving it a yellow color).


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #823379 - 02/03/17 07:51 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

:incredible:

My god man, thats incredible! What a learning experience.

U really are Data! :holyfuckdude:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 3
    #823380 - 02/03/17 08:03 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

:androidlol:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #823383 - 02/03/17 11:01 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

This is a pretty cool thread idea im gonna follow it.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #823653 - 02/13/17 12:48 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I got one:

Why is refridgator air so dry?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 1
    #823708 - 02/14/17 04:44 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I think that's because the refrigeration cycle of a typical refrigerator/freezer is designed so that the evaporator coils (the cold part) gets down below freezing while it's running (usually below zero degrees Fahrenheit, because the freezer section is typically at or around zero).

This removes a lot of water vapor from the air, because as the air temperature drops, the maximum capacity for water vapor drops (the relative humidity, or the ratio of actual water content and maximum potential water content, goes up) until saturation (relative humidity is 100%) is reached at the coil surface. From here, any further drop in temperature requires that water be removed from the air, in order to keep the relative humidity at or below 100% (excess moisture condenses out of the air, freezing onto the coils as frost).

The superchilled air is then circulated through the freezer, where it begins to heat up due to incoming heat from the room surrounding the freezer. Because the air's water content was removed during cooling, and it's maximum capacity for water is rising again with the temperature, the relative humidity of the air begins to drop significantly. The air then circulates to the refrigerator section as needed to keep that section cool but above freezing, ensuring that the refrigerator air has even lower relative humidity than the freezer air.

The water that freezes onto the coils is melted occasionally through a defrost cycle, where the refrigerant cycle is briefly turned off, and a heating element turned on to quickly heat up the evaporator coils. The melted Frost drains into an external pan, under the fridge where it can slowly evaporate into the room.

This modern way of actively drying the air before it ever gets to the inner airspace is what keeps the freezer/fridge mostly frost free, as the extremely dry air can actually cause any frost in freezer/fridge to directly evaporate at freezing, a process called sublimation.

This same process of subcooling the air to remove water vapor is used by all AC units to properly cool hot air without driving the relative humidity of the cooled air to 100%.  If in certain applications, the heat removed from the air is added back to it after initial cooling and water removal (end result is same temperature air with less humidity), and you get a dehumidifier.

This area of study is known as psychrometrics, and has real application in perception of comfort or dessication of items in climate controlled spaces. It is a key design aspect of all refrigeration cycles and their applications.

Good question bruh!:highfive:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #823806 - 02/16/17 07:50 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Is anyone here good with python?
I'm sorely lacking someone I can just hit up with random questions.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #823811 - 02/16/17 08:21 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

hell yeah i am. more so with monty though...


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #823814 - 02/16/17 08:36 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not good with python, I know just enough to piss myself off trying to implement my ideas.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #823822 - 02/16/17 10:51 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I'm really amazed how much utility learning it has afforded and I'm just six weeks in.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #823831 - 02/17/17 07:04 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

quite intriguing science there Data. Refridgators always fasinated me in how they work.

i got another one: Its about sound.

Sound/music studios are lined with material that absorbs sound and insulates so sound doesnt escape or come inside the room. Does sound from speakers wear out this material over time? Or is the force from the speakers too low to do damage?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #823838 - 02/17/17 01:27 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

monty python... geeze...


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I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 1
    #823863 - 02/17/17 09:40 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Acoustic Foam is usually made of polyeurethane cells filled with some sort of gas. The structure allows for any force applied to the foam to be as evenly distributed throughout the bulk of the foam as possible. Because of this, and the fact that polyeurethane (and most polymers) can be custom formulated to have certain properties, the chemical makeup of acoustic foam polyeurethane is typically dialed in to be as "gooey" as possible, to provide an efficient means to convert macromotion (sound waves) to molecular motion (heat).

Because of this "gooey" property, and the ability of the foam to evenly distribute force throughout the bulk, it is highly resistant to stress fatigue, and thus will be slow to break down from high amplitude sound waves.

However, in order to behave in this manner, the chemical bonds holding the material together are extremely flexible, long, and weak (low bond energy). While most of the physical energy imparted on the material from sound does not impart enough energy to break or rearrange these bonds, the effects of spontaneous elastomer breakdown does give this polyeurethane material a shelf-life of about 7 years. While this shelf life is affected by the temperature of the foam (and thus slightly affected by the conversion of sound motion into heat), this has such a small effect on the material that it can be considered negligible (a large pipe organ puts out about 10W of sound power, which would be negligible when spread out over the 600 sq.ft. of a 10x10x10 foot room covered in foam).

So the answer is, the normal breakdown of the unstable elastomer material will be so much stronger of a contributor to the life of the acoustic foam than the contribution from the sound waves from a speaker system.

I had to dig for this answer, good question TrueHerbCrystal! :highfive: If I haven't explained this well enough, feel free to ask more specific questions about the parts that I may have missed.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824024 - 02/23/17 11:36 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Amazing! I definitely got thhe basics of how the polyuranthane works. Thanks man :thumbup: So there is a 7 year lifespan, very nice. :yesnod:

Got another one for ya: Current TV technology has "organic" properties, such as "OLED" or Organic Light Emitting Diode.

What makes it organic and why is it better than nonorganic LED?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #824054 - 02/23/17 09:35 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Organic generally, from a chemistry perspective, means carbon, carbon containing molecules, and the chemistry of those molecules.

I'm sure someone with training in materials sci may have a better idea about what an OLED is.

My understanding of LED's in general is pretty weak, but from what I understand about similar phenomena/components it may not be that hard to describe. I would propose what I believe it is, but I'd rather wait to see if Data comes in with a more complete answer/eventually have motivation to look it up.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint] * 1
    #824070 - 02/23/17 11:11 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Boondocks is exactly right. In the case of organic LEDs, the word "organic" simply means that the active emitting region is composed of carbon-based polymer semi-conductors, rather than inorganic silicon-based semiconductors.

OLEDs and LEDs basically work the same way. Two materials (one that is electron rich, and one that is generally missing some electrons) are placed next to each other. Because they are semi-conducting, extra electrons from the first material cannot freely flow to the 2nd material to fill the spaces where electrons should be (called holes for simplification of the model). When no current is applied to the materials, there is only a very thin "depletion layer" where the two materials meet, where electrons and holes can diffuse across the materials and cancel each other out.

The thing about the two materials is that the ground states of their respective electrons are different, meaning that the electron-rich first material contains electrons that have a higher potential energy than an electron that would occupy one of the holes in the electron-deficient second material. This difference in potential energy is known as the energy band gap. The band gap is usually given in electron-volts (eV).

When a current is applied across the junction, it can effectively be thought of as the power supply pumping more electrons into the electron-rich first material, and holes into the electron-deficient second material, until the voltage across the material junction exceeds a critical value necessary for the semi-conductors to allow current to flow through the junction. The higher energy electrons flow into the depletion layer and combine with the holes, thereby instantaneously dropping in potential energy. This results in a quanta of energy equal to the band gap energy being released from the electron-hole merger in the form of a photon, with a frequency equivalent to the energy of the photon (and thus the band gap), as defined by the Planck–Einstein relation:

E = h*f

Where:
 
  • E = energy of the photon (equal to the band gap energy in eV)
  • h = planck constant (6.582x10-16 eV*s)
  • f = frequency of the photon in Hz


Thus, by controlling the band gap between the two semiconductors through careful dopant concentration and selection, you can precisely dial in the energy (and thus the frequency and color) of all of the photons emitted from the junction when current is flowing. In conventional LEDs, these materials are made up of extremely pure silicon and inorganic (usually metallic) dopants. In OLEDs, the layers are made up of carbon-based (and thus organic) polymers and various dopants to achieve the desired band gap.

Because polymers are manufactured rather than refined, it is much easier to control the purity of the polymers. Additionally, because organic polymers typically have much lower bond energies, they are better able to absorb misalignment during crystal growth without forming large dislocation defects. This allows for large sheets of OLED base layers to be manufactured, doped in precise locations (to give red/green/blue emitting regions on the same sheet), and still be flexible enough to apply to a TFT power supply matrix...thus yielding a lightweight, potentially flexible, and extremely thin display in which every single pixel is actively emitting its own light, and does not need a back light (and thus can produce true black and extremely vivid contrast).

A standard LED display is typically a color LCD (liquid crystal display) with a standard LED array as a backlight. The LEDs cannot be economically utilized as an active display because their silicon-based semiconductors are more brittle, larger, and harder to produce and arrange en masse as a single solid display panel that is capable of 4K resolution and above.

The only disadvantages of OLEDs are the service life (which is much shorter than conventional LEDs due to the sensitivity of the organic polymers involved), and the fact that they are not as efficient as their inorganic counterparts (especially in blue, but blue has always been a problem child for LEDs in general).

Don't let the word "organic" fool you though, this technology still uses the same toxic dopants and awful supply chain practices as conventional LEDs, and the organic polymers are more than likely manufactured using petroleum as the starting component. :shrug:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #824071 - 02/23/17 11:35 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I had an interesting idea today at lunch. I'll have to run the math on it, but it may have potential for either a high-power radio amplifier, or a way to get some hyper-efficient solar energy:

The solar winds are a mixture of protons, electrons, alpha particles (helium nuclei), and trace amounts of heavier atomic nuclei, that streams from the sun with an average speed of about 450 miles per second.

Due to the spreading out of the particles as they move away from the suns surface, all of the solar winds that impacts the area of the Earth at the radius of the Earth's orbit comes from a small circular patch of the sun's surface that is about 58km across. The angle between one side of the earth and the opposite side, as seen from the sun, is roughly 2/1000ths of a degree.

If one could apply the small amount of electromagnetic field energy necessary to change the initial path of each electron and each proton coming from this small patch of sun, such that over their long transit from the sun to the Earth, they separate into two beams (on of protons, the other of electrons) that each arrived on opposite sides of the Earth, then one would have access to about 900 MW of electrical energy.

I'm betting that if I do the math, I'll be able to show that we currently have the ability to do this (well, minus the collecting grids, we would have to build those). I'm willing to bet that the electron/proton path corrections can be made with less can 100W of power applied at the suns surface, and that we can achieve that will less than 1MW of transmission power at the earth's surface (which we are perfectly capable of doing right now).

I'm also willing to bet that this technique could be refined to deliver much more than 900MW to the planet...a series of solar orbiters with highly eccentric orbits could provide the planet with a steady stream of electron/proton beams that could utilize much more initial area of the sun (and thus concentrate huge amounts of power for Earth's utilization.

Finally, I think this could be used as a way to take a small communication signal at Earth's surface, amplify it to several GWs worth of transmitting power, and then beam it out towards an intended target. This will take a little more work, but I think I can get electrons and protons to "bunch" together in response to a small changes in velocity due to a radio-frequency signal input. This may take a week or two to work out, but it could be the beginnings of true interstellar communication.

More to come on this.

TL:DR, I might be able to show that we can hijack the sun's solar winds as a way for us to harness a large amount of power for various uses. Its neat, but I still need to do the math.

:gethigh:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824094 - 02/24/17 07:09 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

i know stuff too. i just cant remember right now. stupid drugs...


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824154 - 02/26/17 01:03 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

What is the status of Fukushima? There seems to be a 'its not a big deal' narrative now.
I want to investigate myself but don't have much time at the moment, though it's been on my mind a lot.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #824161 - 02/26/17 08:45 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Literally takes 2 seconds to find out yourself lol.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: figgurate]
    #824166 - 02/26/17 10:43 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I'm looking for someone who is well researched into it who can impart their findings unto me.
I'm well aware search engines exist that lead you to articles...

I watched a few youtube videos on the subject today. One discovery channel video that was like 'everything is fine, nothing to see here', and another video of someone debunking a video claiming the event is apocalyptic.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #824167 - 02/27/17 04:11 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I try to stay out of current events as much as possible, because as you've pointed out there are "sources" that can claim to debunk other "sources" on just about everything.

Having said that, the story we get in the nuclear industry is that "we got lucky and it wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been, but we still need to upgrade all of our shit so it doesn't happen again, because we might not be lucky next time". I have not done extensive research on the matter with respect to trying to definitively verify or deny this stance, or its biases.

That being said, I will offer some tidbits to think about. In January, Scandinavian countries noted a spike in Iodine-131 (a short lived isotope with a half life of about 8 days I think). The source of the spike is expected to be a pharma accident, since nobody is owning up to it and there was no satellite information to indicate a Nuclear test in the far north.

When the chernobyl unit melted down, the cold war was very much in effect. Despite this, the entire world managed to figure it out when radiation air monitors and body radiation monitors started going apeshit at nearly all nuclear-related facilities all over the world. Even in a time of extreme paranoia and withholding of information, the world could figure out when a major radiological release had occurred.

This has not been the case with fukushima. We have had no spurious alarms in our radiation air monitors, even the ones outside in the open air surrounding the US nuclear facilities.

I've also done a calculation in the past, regarding the spread of the reported release of isotopes into the Pacific. I will try to see if I can find it, but I do remember the risks to the food supoly was minuscule. The vast majority of isotopes decay away very quickly, and most of the rest do not bioaccumulate,and thus are evenly spread out to the point of being nonexistent. What remains will tend to accumulate in bony tissue of apex predators, which are the parts of fish that we don't like to eat too much of, and the majority of which will end up as marine snow in the deep ocean before ending up on our plates.

The immediate safety of humans aside,this was a serious event, and while it does tend to get immensely overblown by the extremely nuclear-paranoid, the lessons learned cannot be ignored. In the US, major projects and emergency plans have been designed and put in place at all reactors, at the request of the NRC, as a direct result of Fukushima. With public opinion so low in the US for nuclear power, we are almost forced to grossly overreact to situations like this in order to satisfy the mostly uneducated, fear-driven responses of the general public. It hurts the budget, but I'm not really one to complain about more strict safety protocols at nuclear plants :shrug:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824169 - 02/27/17 08:25 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)



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Invisibledrawde
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: figgurate]
    #824171 - 02/27/17 09:31 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks D, makes me feel better people inside the industry view it that way.
This Iodine thing sounds interesting to look into and speculate about.

Quote:

figgurate said:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160630214454.htm

2 seconds.




Hey asshole, we are open to asking each other questions here and generating conversation. This is a slow moving board in case you haven't noticed.
About 50% of the traffic here could be googled but we elect to be social and have discourse, something you seem to need work on.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #824172 - 02/27/17 09:58 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Why you callin me an asshole? I helped you and answered your stupid question. You should be thanking me.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: figgurate]
    #824175 - 02/27/17 12:24 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

figgurate said:
Why you callin me an asshole?




Quote:

figgurate said:
Literally takes 2 seconds to find out yourself lol.



Quote:

figgurate said:
I helped you and answered your stupid question. You should be thanking me.




Quote:

Data said:
Please keep the dicussion polite




That's why...please feel free to start your own thread if you aren't satisfied with the level of vulgarity in this thread, otherwise keep it polite.

Thanks


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824176 - 02/27/17 12:44 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I absolutley agree, you should tell the guy calling people assholes to keep it polite though, not me.

Thanks!


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: figgurate] * 2
    #824185 - 02/27/17 06:50 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Science is serious business.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824202 - 02/28/17 01:06 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Data said:
Quote:

figgurate said:
Why you callin me an asshole?




Quote:

figgurate said:
Literally takes 2 seconds to find out yourself lol.



Quote:

figgurate said:
I helped you and answered your stupid question. You should be thanking me.




Quote:

Data said:
Please keep the dicussion polite




That's why...please feel free to start your own thread if you aren't satisfied with the level of vulgarity in this thread, otherwise keep it polite.

Thanks



QFT!


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Stoneth]
    #824215 - 02/28/17 12:52 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I still don't see how i'm such an asshole for telling someone it takes 2 seconds to find an answer. I even posted the answer. Where the fuck is my thank you??


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: figgurate]
    #824233 - 02/28/17 04:45 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I definitely think it would be beneficial if we designed reactors that used some of our excess nuclear waste.

I remember when we talked about nuclear power in my Environmental Chem course, when we talked about nuclear waste disposal, it came up that some countries use, the unstable isotopes we consider waste, for energy generation. (I think france?)


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint] * 1
    #824529 - 03/08/17 09:38 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

That's true, they're called breeder reactors, or fast neutron reactors.

US fission reactors work by splitting fissile atoms like U-235, which can either spontaneously decay and give off a neutron, or can be actively split by collision with a neutron, releasing multiple neutrons in the process. If the U-235 atoms are packed together close enough such that for each fission event, one of the released neutrons impacts another U-235 atom and causes that atom to split, then the process can go on until the levels of U-235 start to dwindle off. This is called a chain reaction. The neutron population (neutron flux) can be controlled by changing the content of non-fissile neutron absorbers (control rods and boron salts in the water surrounding the nuclear fuel), and thus the reaction rate can be dialed in as designed.

The problem with this setup, is that the reactor core and fuel is designed for thermal neutrons, rather than fast neutrons. The only difference being how fast or how much energy the neutrons have. Fast neutrons are initially released during fission, but are slowed down (moderated) by the water surrounding the fuel. In the process of slowing down, the neutrons give energy (heat) to the water, ultimately producing steam, to drive a turbine/generator to make electricity. The slower moving (thermal) neutrons are also much more effective at only initiating fission, rather than monkeying around with the structure of an atom that it comes into contact with. This whole process is relatively simple, and in the current supply chain environment (cheap uranium ores, and effective methods of enrichment) is the preferred method of producing energy in the US. Its very similar to the obsolete dead dinosaur that we refuse to wean off of, despite the opportunities to develop alternative energy and energy storage solutions. :doublefacepalm:

Anyway, a very small percentage of the fast neutrons leaving the fission site will impact an adjacent U-238 atom (US nuclear fuel is regulated to less and 5% fissile U-235) or some of the steel support structure. Fast neutrons have enough energy to change the isotope of the adjacent material, and over time, these increasingly unstable isotopes will decay into other elements that are also radioactive and potentially fissile. In the US, we consider that too difficult to control with our current plants, and public relations has all but killed the drive to build any new reactors...thus the new radioactive and fissile material is labelled nuclear waste, and put into special storage to waste energy for years to come.

Nevertheless, this generation of "waste" is exactly what fast neutron reactors take advantage of. They sacrifice more of the available neutron flux to convert non-fissile material into fissile material, at a rate that is faster than the burning of pre-existing fissile material. While this may just seem like they are just moving energy around, what this actually does is to reposition existing energy in the non-fissile material.

Consider it like this, U-238 is non-fissile, and thus cannot be used for energy production. However, U-238 atoms have a ton of pre-existing energy bound up in their nucleus that just can't be accessed currently, because the atom is simply too stable. By adding a few neutrons, and letting a high-neutron uranium isotope decay into a higher proton atom like plutonium, the overly stable atom becomes a much less stable atom that is ready to pop. The input of energy from the neutrons is vastly outweighed by the energy output of the resulting fission event, and the breeder reactor can still produce some usable electricity while it is running. :awecid:

I agree with boondocks on this one, we need to start re-developing breeder reactors in place of our old clunky thermal neutron reactors. It would provide a method for utilizing a good portion of radioactive waste for energy, and whats left over is just a fraction of what you started out with.  The problem at this point is the general public's opinion on nuclear in general. There is a lot of misinformation about nuclear floating around, and its difficult for people to wrap their brains around the scientific background needed to understand the actual risks vs. the perceived risks.

Sorry for the delay on the answer, been super busy lately :shrug:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824555 - 03/09/17 08:14 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I've been reading about redshift and trying to understand what causes the increase in wavelength.
Most sources just describe how the position causes the Doppler effect, but I want to know why it is that EMR can increase λ and necessarily decrease in energy moving through space and where the energy goes.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #824560 - 03/10/17 11:15 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

So, I'll try to explain the sources of redshift/blueshift in terms of how I understand it (simplified examples that make it easier to grasp, because my mind is small). When you get down to the quantum explanation, this may not be the complete story, because to be honest I don't understand the nature of subatomic particles completely. :shrug:

As you've stated, red shift can occur when the emitting source is moving away from the observer. The EMR waves can only propogate at the speed of light, and the emitting source is emitting waves at a fixed interval (the initial frequency), and so the waves peaks are spatially emitted further apart from each other, resulting in a longer wavelength (lower frequency) of the emitted EMR. Because they are spatially stretched out (the emitting source has moved further out from the observer at the end of the emission than it was when it began emitting), the observer will see a redshifted source of EMR whose duration is slightly longer than the duration of emission of the initial EMR as measured at the source. The total energy emitted is the same as the total energy observed, but its more spread out.

Same thing occurs with the redshift of light as it travels long distances across the universe. This redshift is the combined result of the redshift due to relative motion between the source and the observer, and the expansion of spacetime between the source and the observer. If one imagines the expansion of spacetime as the stretching of a rubber sheet, i.e. space is expanding in all locations at once, rather than from a particular source, then this means that an EMR wave will also spatially expand as it propagates through the vacuum of space. This will result in the stretching of the waveform, a lengthening of the wavelength, and a spreading out of the total energy of the wave, thus resulting in a wave that is "lower energy", but will strike the observer for a longer period of time. This is how the energy stays conserved, but has a "lower energy" wave. Blueshift works the same way, but just concentrates energy and shortens observed duration.

Now, if you want to, we can get into the relativity portion of this, where you have to take into account that light has to be travelling at the speed of light relative to any observer at all times, and thus time dilation plays the primary role in modifying the apparent waveform and duration. But I'll have to pull out some paper and draw some pictures, and it'll take me a hot minute to make sure I've got everything pinned down. :ancientaliens: I'll let you make the call on that bucket of worms.

So basically, redshift/blueshift is the process of diluting/concentrating EM wave energy across spacetime, and energy is conserved by increasing/decreasing the duration of the total emission (thus truly stretching/compressing the emission through all 4 dimensions of spacetime), respectively.

Feel free to ask questions about this, I'll try to explain it as best I can. Its definitely a confusing topic...I kept having to stop and re-read what I was typing to make sure it actually made sense  :awkwardconfusion:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824561 - 03/10/17 12:06 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

That makes perfect sense. Idk why physics can't get some people who can explain shit in a coherent manner.
I'd love to hear more about how relativity plays a role if you care to get into it. Up2u.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #824721 - 03/14/17 09:03 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I promise I'll get around to answering the last question...I just need to find a spare hour or so to write up the explanation. I'll definitely have some time on Friday if I can't get to it earlier :gethigh:


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Invisibledrawde
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824722 - 03/14/17 09:49 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

You have better shit to do my man. I'll just continue trying to decipher my cosmology book.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824758 - 03/15/17 11:49 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I got a question (for Data and not figgurate):

Why does metal glow red when its really hot?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 1
    #824762 - 03/15/17 01:04 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

So red, or any other color we see is a wavelength of electromagnetic radiation. All bodies (objects, matter) above absolute zero emit electromagnetic radiation at all wavelengths. The higher the temperature of the body the greater the intensity of the EM radiation at certain wavelengths (depends on the material). So when metal is so hot that it is glowing red, there is enough heat energy to emit a significant portion of EM radiation in the visible region of the EM spectrum, and most of it is the wavelengths that correspond to the color our eye/brain system recognizes as red.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde] * 1
    #824767 - 03/15/17 04:14 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Drawde hit the nail on the head.

This radiation can be described by Planck's Law, which is broken up into the more practical Stefan-Boltzmann Law (total energy emitted by an object based on its absolute temperature), and both the Rayleigh-Jeans Law and Wien Approximation (peak-intensity frequency of the EM spectra emitted by the object as a function of absolute temperature, for low and high requencies, respectively).

For trivia purposes, the temperature at which all object visibly glow due to this EM radiation is called the Draper Point, and is established at 977 degrees F :awecid:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #824768 - 03/15/17 04:48 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

On a related note, thin section petrographic microscopes are awesome and have some real light shenanigans going on. Are you familiar with them at all? If not I would be happy to explain some of the crazy things you do to identify what minerals you're looking at. If anyone is interested in hearing just speak up. Pics related.

I only really have used them in a mineralogy course though, so there could be some things I don't have any clue about what could be in a petrology course.







--------------------
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

I am tired of Earth
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Invisibledrawde
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #824776 - 03/15/17 07:01 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

:ohwow:

Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
If anyone is interested in hearing just speak up





Yes please!


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824800 - 03/16/17 01:15 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Amazing!

Thanks guys :popcorn:

Another light question: todays movies are digital. How are digital movies projected so bright onto the screen?

I know the old way was film with a huge HPS bulb behind it.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 1
    #824874 - 03/17/17 10:24 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

So I'm about to double-post, there is a whopper of a relativity post coming up.  :docbrown:

Most theatrical projectors use Digital Light Processing (DLP).

The heart of a DLP projector lies in its 1 or 3 (or more) Digital Micromirror Devices (DMDs) which are essentially semiconductor chips with large arrays of tiny (5 micrometers, or 0.0002 inches) mirrors mounted on a swivel, and individually controlled by incredibly fast-acting electrostatic actuators to toggle the path of an incoming light beam to either the screen (through a series of optics) and appear bright, or to a light absorber and heatsink (in order to not let the light onto the screen) and appear dark.

Each micromirror can function as a single pixel (or sometimes 2 pixels if the mirrors are designed to work fast in multiple directions), and by varying the amount of time that the mirror points toward the screen vs. away from the screen, can vary the apparent brighness of that pixel.

The color control comes from one of 2 schemes. The first involves the projector having 3 seperate DMDs, each controlling the pixel field for either reds, greens, or blues (the light color is provided by 3 seperate red, green, and blue light sources), and each of the 3 images formed is combined into the full color image through the optics of the projector. The second way to do this is by using a single extremely fast DMD, and using a single light source with a spinning color wheel between the light and the DMD, to quickly alternate between red, green, and blue source light while the DMD quickly switches through the respective red, green, and blue pixel fields. This switching occurs so fast on the projector screen that our eyes can't distinguish the individual color pixel fields...and so all three blur together to form a single full-color image.

This technology was used in big-screen TVs a while back, but has since been replaced as LCDs and OLEDs began to get cheaper to build on that scale. However, since it would still cost way to much to build an LCD or OLED display the size of a theater screen, and because DLPs provide a way to brightly project digital formats...they are still used in theaters today.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #824877 - 03/17/17 11:05 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Drawde, this is for you dawg :bobmarley:


So before we get started into any kind of time dilation discussion or relativity, I'm going to explain a little background on the subject that will make the explanation a little easier to understand. I realize that you may already know this stuff, so I'm going to label each topic or definition, and end the introduction section with a line of asterisks so that you can TL:DR the shit out of it if you so choose.

Vectors - Vectors are simply a mathematical way to describe something like a change in displacement, velocity (speed and direction), acceleration, jerk, jounce, etc. A vector can describe these characteristics in any number of dimensions, because its nothing more than a convenient way to describe something and do math with that something.
So for our discussion, we'll only need to know about 3-vectors and 4-vectors, with the number indicating the number of dimensions (or components) that make up the total vector. The 3-vector will make the most sense, as it describes properties of an object in terms of the 3-spatial dimensions (length, width, height...or x, y, and z).



In this picture, the 3-vector is named "a", and each component of the vector are labeled "ax", "ay", and "az", which you'll notice only describe the length, width, and height (respectively) of the vector as it projects out from the origin (or central corner) of the plot. In equation form, this vector can be written as:  a = ax + ay + az. Note that we just use this as a way to tell the reader how many dimensions the vector consists of, and what the individual values of the components of the vectors are. While it can be used for mathematical purposes, we won’t be doing anything with it. If you’d like a better explanation of this, please feel free to ask for a later post.

The reason we use these to describe physical qualities of an object is because in this configuration, the values of a, ax, ay, and az are all mathematically related, and one only needs to know basic trigonometry in order to calculate these values. For instance, if we know the general direction of the object (the ratios between ax, ay, and az), and we also know the actual value of ax, then we can compute the entirety of ax, ay, az, and a. In another example, if we know ax, ay, az (and thus a)...and any one of the x,y, or z components changes, but the length of a stays the same, then we can re-calculate what the new x and y components will have to be.

A 4-vector is no different, other than it has another component to it. When used in a real example, it describes characteristics of an object in the 3 spatial dimensions as well as through time, which is treated as the 4th dimension. This is impossible to draw, but can be represented by an extremely simplified drawing. We can take the 3 spatial dimensions and find the combined magnitude of them by using an extension of the Pythagorean theorem, or that for a right triangle seen below, C^2 = A^2 + B^2…which can be worked out to C = SQRT(A^2 + B^2)



Now, if we look back to the first figure, under the explanation of vectors, we can see that you can form right triangles that can be used to easily calculated the length of vector a from each of the components (see below).



Notice the first right triangle formed by ax, ay, and the purple hypotenuse (the longest side). The 2nd right triangle is formed by the purple hypotenuse of the first triangle, az, and vector a as the final hypotenuse. If we apply Pythagorean’s theorem to the first triangle we get

(Purple hyp)^2 = ax^2 + ay^2

And if we do the same thing for the 2nd triangle we get

A^2 = (purple hyp)^2 + az^2

And since the right side of the first equation can be substituted into the 2nd equation for (purple hyp)^2, we can finally get

A^2 = ax^2 + ay^2 + az^2
Or
A = SQRT ( ax^2 + ay^2 + az^2)

Using the last equation, we can calculate the total length of vector a from its individual components, which allows us to condense 3 dimensions into a single number, which will come in handy later.


Relative Velocity - Relative velocity is pretty simple, but requires an explanation of fact in order to appreciate the significance of its universal application.

Assuming that the universe, is filled with an apparently infinite (or boundless, as far as we can tell) expanse of nothing (vacuum), the 4 fundamental fields, and their perturbations (the wavy static in the fields that give rise to all of the matter and particles in the universe), and that all of these particles are all moving, it is plain to see that there is no eternally static reference point that we can use to determine an absolute velocity. Therefore, the only velocity information we can gain about an object must be a relative velocity, which is the velocity of an object relative to the observer. When determining the relative velocity of an object, we assume that the observer is not moving, even if they might be compared to another observer nearby. In reality, all observers may be moving relative to each other and everything else in the universe, but this gets hella confusing, so in order to simplify each observation, we assume that the observer is stationary, and determine the relative velocity of the observed object based on that assumption.

As an everyday example, we can think about ourselves driving on the freeway. If we are driving towards an overpass, we usually think of this situation in that we are the ones moving toward the overpass at the speed thats currently on the speedometer (lets just say 70mph in this example). In this case, we are actually describing the relative velocity of the car with respect to the overpass (and thus the surface of the earth, which the overpass is attached to, which we measure through the wheels). We could just as easily think of it as we are stationary, and the overpass is moving toward us at 70mph (and the earth's surface is moving under us at 70mph). If we consider another car that is passing us, and his speedometer measures 75mph relative to the earth and overpass, we could also consider ourselves stationary and his velocity as 5mph relative to us, or even as him being stationary and our velocity as -5mph relative to him. In fact, we are moving at 70mph relative to the earth's surface, which is moving at roughly 1000mph relative to the center of the planet, which is moving at about 70,000mph relative to the sun, which is moving at about 450,000mph relative to the center of the Milky Way galaxy, which is moving at about 250,000mph relative to our neighbor the Andromeda Galaxy...hence the need to set up a "stationary" reference point that makes sense when thinking about certain scenarios. This is why we use the term "relative velocity", and we'll get back to this concept later.


Frame of Reference - This is an extension from relative velocity. The frame of reference (aka the inertial reference frame) is just a fancy term that adequately describes the stationary observer we just talked about. Keep in mind that for the same example, the frame of reference can be changed multiple times, in order to look at the example from multiple viewpoints that are all relative to each other. You'll see this happen in the explanation quite a lot.


Relativity - Is just the general concept that all observations made of an object or event in our universe is relative to the observer (the frame of reference). This means that the same event or object may appear to occur slightly differently between two observers, which will ultimately mathematically and logically work out to being the same event. This is purely a consequence of the fixed speed limit of light, and the vast size of the universe, as the transmission of information (and thus perception of an event) is physically limited by the universal speed limit. It may not make sense now, but once the 4-vector is explained, it will start to make a lot more sense.

*************************************************************************

C, the universal speed limit – So the most important concept to get down when discussing the relativistic Doppler effect is that of time dilation, specifically time dilation that arises from the relative velocity between two objects. This is where the knowledge of vectors and trigonometry becomes handy.

So, the speed of light in a vacuum (usually denoted ‘c’), 3x10^8 meters per second is widely known as the universal speed limit, and we now know that all objects move through space-time at the speed of light.  While we usually think of this in terms of the 3 spatial dimensions, in reality this speed and its limit applies across the whole of space-time…meaning that the rate of passage of time is also tied to this speed and its limit.

Lets get into an example. Think of an object flying through empty space past us. We’ll use a 4-vector to describe its relative velocity to us, and we’ll call the vector A.

A = Ax + Ay + Az + At

Where Ax,y,z are the 3 spatial dimensions (what we normally think of as spatial velocity), and At is the velocity of the object through time (or how fast the object is traveling into the future).

Now, if we refer back to the method described in the introduction on how to condense the 3 spatial components into 1 single value (which we’ll call As for the speed of vector A), we can reduce the vector to the following:

A = As + At

Where:

As = SQRT (Ax + Ay+ Az)

So, now that we’ve simplified the 4-vector into something we can plot on a graph, we can get into the effect of time dilation.



The figure above shows us what we are now working with. We have calculated As, but we aren’t sure about At yet. So we need to know what the values are for both A and As in order to figure out what At is. Well, because the universal space-time speed limit is c, and all objects move through space-time at c, we now have a fixed value that we can plug into the final value of A:

A = SQRT (As^2 + At^2)

Becomes

C = SQRT (As^2 + At^2)

Or

C^2 = As^2 + At^2

And finally, by moving the As component to the same side as the C component:

At = SQRT (C^2 – As^2)

Now, as you can see, C is a fixed value, so At only varies as As varies, and you can also see that when As is small or zero, At is maximized towards the value of C. Also, as As gets large (approaches or equals C), At will get smaller and smaller, trending towards zero. What this ultimately means in the real world is that as relative speed through the 3 spatial dimensions increases, the relative passage of time of that object slows down. This effect is known as Time Dilation, and it’s important to remember that this effect is relative, as in its effect will depend on the frame of reference of the observer.

To explain, let’s go back to the example of the object flying past you in empty space. In this frame of reference, if you had a clock with you, and there was also a clock on the object flying past you…then you would see that the clock on the object would be moving slower than the clock you hold in your hand. If you rewind to the beginning of the example, but switch up the frame of reference so that you are riding on the object through space, and your original clock was left in your original frame of reference, then it would appear to you now that you are standing on a stationary object, and your original clock is flying past you in the opposite direction. Thus, your original clock would now be the one experiencing time dilation and would be running slower compared to the clock you are looking at on the object.


Light always moves at c, sorta – So now we have to discuss the rules of light, and their own relativity. The simple rule is that light (photons) travel at the speed of light C, relative to the frame of reference. What this means, is that from an observer’s frame of reference, all light coming/going to/from the observer are travelling at speed c.

As an example, consider 2 objects travelling away from each other with relative velocity ‘v’. If we are standing on object 1 (the current frame of reference), then to you, object 1 is stationary, and object 2 is moving away from you at velocity v. Let’s ignore time dilation for a minute, and focus purely on light. If we could see photons that are leaving us, and shine a laser towards object 2, then the photons leaving the laser would appear to us to leave object 1 at velocity c, and would travel towards object 2 at velocity (c – v), relative to object 2. However, if one were to rewind this example, and swap locations so that we are now standing on object 2, and left the laser beaming towards us from object 1, then it would appear to us that object 2 is stationary, and object 1 is moving away from us at velocity v, and the photons from the laser are arriving on object 2 at velocity c, but leaving object 1 at a velocity of (c + v), relative to object 1.


Now we put it all together – Now that we have the relative nature of light’s apparent relative velocity, and the relative nature of the passage of time as a relation of an objects relative velocity…we can put together an example of relativistic Doppler effect, or the redshift/blueshift phenomena.



Consider 2 objects in the following several cases, object 1 will be the emitter of light (designated by p for photon), and object 2 will be the receiver of light. This will remain constant throughout all cases. Also, one must assume that you can see photons in all cases, which doesn’t always happen in reality, because the only photons you see are the ones that hit your retina.


Case 1:
In this case, the frame of reference is from the surface of object 2, looking toward object 1. From our reference frame, object 1 is moving away from us with velocity v1. A beam of light leaves the surface of object 1. The initial frequency of the light at object 1 is 510 terahertz (THz), or 510 trillion waves of light generated per second, heading toward object 2 (yellow light, wavelength of about 588 nm).

So, from the reference point of object 2, the light waves must be travelling at c relative to object 2. We first see the time dilation effect on object 1 as a result of the relative velocity, so time appears to move more slowly on object 1, which reduces the frequency of the generated light (thus slightly redshifting the beam of light prior to it leaving the object to say something like 500 THz (which would require that the velocity be something on the order of 0.2c, or about 132 million mph).

But, at the same time, the waves of light also appear to the observer to be leaving object 1 with a velocity of c + v1, since that would be necessary in order for the waves to be arriving at the observer at velocity c. So, one wave has had a chance to travel 1.2 times the distance that it would normally travel at velocity c before another wave was emitted from the source, and so the wavelength increases by 1.2 times the already time-dilated wave leaving object 1. This further stretches the wavelength from 600nm @ 500 THz to 720nm, which works out to about 417 THz. Thus, the total redshift of the light coming from object 1 to the observer on object 2 is an increase in wavelength from 588nm (yellow light) to 720nm (deep red).


Case 2:
In this case, the frame of reference is still from the surface of object 2, looking toward object 1. The difference is that the velocity is reversed, and object 1 appears to be moving toward us at velocity v1, which we’ll keep at 0.2c just to see how it affects the relative blueshift.

So we get the same amount of time dilation on object 1, so our initial 510 THz (588nm) beam of light lengthens out to 500 THz (600nm). The difference now is that the apparent velocity of the beam of light from the surface of object one is c – v1 instead of c + v1. What this means is that each wave of light only travels 0.8 times the normal distance it would travel before another wave is emitted, effectively shortening the final wavelength to 0.8 times that of the already time-dilated beam. This results in a total change in wavelength from 588nm (yellow) to 480nm (light blue to teal).


Case 3 and 4:
It should now be apparent that if we reverse the frame of reference to object 1, and watch for the relative time dilation of object 2, and combine it with the apparent late and early arrival times for the light waves for the case of object 2 moving away and towards object 1, respectively….that the redshift/blueshift phenomena are in agreement between both the reference frame of the source and the reference frame of the receiver. However, to observers in either reference frame, the physics of their local area (their reference frame) never changes, but rather the far away objects in relative motion to the observer is the only thing changing or acting strange. It should also be noted that in the case of relativistic Doppler effects, the relativistic portion acts to both allow the normal Doppler Effect to happen while also maintaining the constant speed of light relative to the local reference frame. Additionally, relativistic time dilation acts to both accentuate the redshift of an observed object moving away from the observer, while conversely reducing the blueshift from an observed object moving towards the observer.

Thus, our funky journey through a small amount of relativity comes to a conclusion. Feel free to ask any questions you want…but I can’t necessarily guarantee that I will be able to answer them. :pipesmoke:


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Invisibledrawde
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #824949 - 03/21/17 07:26 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for putting this together, D.
I'm still trying to digest it all in my free time here and there, but I've read through and it all seems pretty straightforward.
:thumbup::thumbup:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #825177 - 03/31/17 04:32 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry it's taking me so long, life is crazy and I realized this requires some background info and I'm having difficulty figuing out what info to explain, and what can just be arm-waved.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #825179 - 03/31/17 04:59 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
Sorry it's taking me so long, life is crazy and I realized this requires some background info and I'm having difficulty figuing out what info to explain, and what can just be arm-waved.



Yea, explaining things in a conversation is way less difficult, you can just go off of the reactions of the audience as cues to explain background.

It's a good way to really polish your understanding of a topic you thought you knew completely...I always seem to anyway :shrug:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #825363 - 04/14/17 04:48 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-missions-provide-new-insights-into-ocean-worlds-in-our-solar-system

This is fascinating. Not only is there a shitload of liquid water, but there is ample hydrogen, which can be combined with CO2 to generate biological energy and methane. Both CO2 and Methane were also identified in the plumes, which doesn't definitely prove that life is currently active in these subsurface oceans, but...H2 + CO2 + Life = Methane...and we have proven that 3 of the 4 items in that equation are present in the subsurface oceans.

:ancientaliens:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #825387 - 04/17/17 12:16 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I have a computer question.

I remember back in the day, Pentium made a 3.4ghz CPU. And that was the max it could go (besides overclocking).

Nowaways its multiple cores with GHz under 3.4: Dual core, quad core, six core even.

My question is: Why is there a limit at 3.4ghz? And what does the "ghz" clock on the CPU actually mean?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 1
    #825391 - 04/17/17 09:19 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

3.4 GHz was not a real limit, but better solutions were developed.

At a CPUs heart, there are physical circuits (or circuit arrangements) printed for each basic Instruction that the processor is capable of performing. See page 5 of the link for an example of a processor instruction set.

You also have memory registers and other doodads, all built almost exclusively from small transistors arranged into logic circuits, which stores, transmits, and manipulates binary data in a predictable way.

In extremely high speed processing, data coming from multiple locations into a common instruction set must arrive at the same "time" (that is, both pieces of data must physically arrive before the next step can proceed). In order to ensure that this occurs, these logic circuits are built to only move forward to the next step in response to a processor-wide timing signal call the "clock". Think of the processor as a bunch of captured picts on a Viking ship, the instruction is "row", each pict's physical input is the data coming into the instruction, and the douche banging on the big drum to direct the rowing is the common clock. The GHz that you see on the processor is the clock frequency, which actually comes from a sub-GHz oscillator, and is multiplied up to its set GHz in the processor.

Now this is where it gets weird. At multiple GHz, electronics design starts to get extremely tricky. At low frequencies, we normally think of conductive surfaces as ideal conductors, instantaneously taking on the voltage or current applied to it. In fact, electrons flow like water, and conductors have a certain amount of "volume" or capacitance for electrons that varies with material and size of the conductor. There is also induction, which acts like the accumulator tank on a ground well, to store electrons for later when the voltage drops. These minute changes only become significant at extremely fast-changing voltages and currents.

Then there is a whole new set of problems that arises when the wavelength of the applied signal is shorter than the conductor carrying it, and the shape of the conductor can change the shape of the signal. This type of black magic makes ideal electrical circuits impossible, but on the bright side gives way to neat looking circuits, like this high frequency filter.


The circuits also tend to get extremely lossy, in that the signal attenuates much more quickly the higher the frequency gets. In order to try and drown out these effects, increased voltages were applied on the leads, which lead to increased chances of shorts and increased heat load.

So a new design path was pursued, to make current-clock or lower-clock speed processors smaller, fit more of them into a processor, and design a way for the processors to work in unison to process data in multiple parallel paths rather than one really fast path. This method has become more efficient (per operation performed), and just as cost effective as precious single-thread designs. So the limitations of high-frequency circuit design and the vast improvements of parallel processing ultimately led to the abandonment of that old pursuit of higher clock frequencies. :shrug:

Hope this helps :bobmarley:


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Invisibledrawde
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #825395 - 04/17/17 03:34 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Running on 12 threads over here :evil2:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #825397 - 04/17/17 04:01 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

That's a lot of porn, bruh :dumblol:


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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT


Edited by Data (04/17/17 04:02 PM)


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #825399 - 04/17/17 04:12 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

:ohyou:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #825540 - 04/21/17 11:54 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I hope I'm not the only one here who's going to a March for Science tomorrow...


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #825541 - 04/22/17 01:27 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

March for Science?

What is dat?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 1
    #825542 - 04/22/17 08:12 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

It's a global protest that aims to express the scientific and public community's frustration of the current administration's denial or unwarranted skepticism towards certain critical topics, the obvious lack of logic and basic knowledge necessary to make such a call, and the various proposed and implemented actions toward the scientific community. Specifically the gagging and proposed defunding of the EPA and other federal regulatory agencies and proposed abolishment of the deapartment of education.

Beyond that, it is a general support march for science and logic. The sad reality is that science has become entangled in partisan politics, and it shouldn't be. Science is science, it should not be used for a particular agenda, but it's findings should support the development of solutions, rather than being dismissed as some "liberal conspiracy". Science has given us so much, and can continue to bring us much more in the future, that should be a statement that can achieve bipartisan support.

I'll be marching here in NC :highfive: and I heard that Bill Nye will be showing up at the one in DC.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #825557 - 04/22/17 09:53 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Thats awesome. Im in Oregon thou :sad:

I got a science question: Why are some people allergic to peanuts?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #825559 - 04/22/17 10:52 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Data said:
It's a global protest that aims to express the scientific and public community's frustration of the current administration's denial or unwarranted skepticism towards certain critical topics, the obvious lack of logic and basic knowledge necessary to make such a call, and the various proposed and implemented actions toward the scientific community. Specifically the gagging and proposed defunding of the EPA and other federal regulatory agencies and proposed abolishment of the deapartment of education.

Beyond that, it is a general support march for science and logic. The sad reality is that science has become entangled in partisan politics, and it shouldn't be. Science is science, it should not be used for a particular agenda, but it's findings should support the development of solutions, rather than being dismissed as some "liberal conspiracy". Science has given us so much, and can continue to bring us much more in the future, that should be a statement that can achieve bipartisan support.

I'll be marching here in NC :highfive: and I heard that Bill Nye will be showing up at the one in DC.




I feel unwanted already...

:unwanted:


--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
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I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
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Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #826990 - 07/03/17 07:40 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Data said:

...
And that doesn't even take into account the increasing problem of space garbage building up in orbit. If a major collision were to take place in orbit, it could spawn a runaway series of collisions that spread into other orbits, and forms a shell of small, high speed debris that would make launches into space impossible for at least a few hundred years. This is called Kessler Syndrome, and the more garbage that we leave in orbit, the greater the chances are of this occuring, setting us back centuries or even imprisoning us on a dying planet...





Hey data did you catch this article, I saw it when I was banned and then forgot about it. So apparently drawde and i's idea to use a drone wasn't too far off. Apparently they have already used this gecko tech to create climbing gear for certain surfaces! that would be pretty fucking cool to try, feel like spider man.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #827077 - 07/06/17 03:04 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

That is super interesting. I found a video of this stuff in action.



Its amazing how well it works, and how easily it releases. You are correct, something that can catch moving objects and hang on to them without requiring a ton of "squeezing" would be ideal for catching the fragile and relatively low density objects floating around in orbit.

I love learning about new tech, thanks for sharing! :thumbup:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #827310 - 07/13/17 03:45 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

That's awesome, and no more space food, just sling a load of burritos into orbit and you're winning.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Macky] * 1
    #827455 - 07/18/17 11:47 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Just posting a neat RadioLab show on the CRISPR system.

The CRISPR family of gene-editing systems is quickly becoming the go-to system for highly specific and reliable gene edits. As such, this program is a great way to learn the basics of the CRISPR system, in order to better understand the capabilities of CRISPR, the potential benefits as well as the potential ethical questions that will inevitably come up.

Plus this radio show is just interesting, and you can listen to it while working on something else, if you are the kind of user (like me) who has a hard time watching a 50+ minute long video.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #827807 - 08/07/17 08:10 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)



Interesting map of average wind speeds at 80m above ground.

I've driven from Ft. Collins into southeastern Wyoming, and it was hell trying to keep my tiny car on the road once I started driving west out of Cheyenne.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #827865 - 08/13/17 07:45 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Someone posted this link in the EG and I thought I would share incase one of you had not heard of it and was interested. www.sci-hub.io  unlocks research papers you would normally have to pay for or be attending a university. Also the research papers that are pdf can be downloaded.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Chemical Addiction] * 1
    #828087 - 08/22/17 10:18 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

So...anyone get to see the total eclipse?

I spent the weekend in SC and skipped classes for it. It was totally worth it, that shit was cray.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #828088 - 08/22/17 10:46 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Rainstorm hit right after it started.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint] * 2
    #828089 - 08/22/17 11:29 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Nope, too far north and cloud cover.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde] * 1
    #828091 - 08/23/17 08:09 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

It was trippy. As I was looking into the sun with my welding glasses I saw a flash followed by a brief look into what appeared to be the future.

I saw a kid from the North crying. He was crying in his room. He was grasping 40.00. Thing is, it was vanished as quick as it appeared. Peering into the future is a trip.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy] * 1
    #828094 - 08/23/17 08:57 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

You obviously forgot to put the welding glass in the helmet...that vision was what the mind made up after you burned the last bit of retinal tissue...


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy] * 1
    #828100 - 08/23/17 01:43 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

:lolsy:

See how worried I am?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde] * 1
    #828107 - 08/23/17 09:33 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

:prettyflyforawhiteguy:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy] * 1
    #828109 - 08/23/17 10:27 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)



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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #828111 - 08/23/17 11:25 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy] * 1
    #828152 - 08/27/17 02:21 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Niel degrade Tyson is the onlay reputable scientist just so u guys no


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: volcomstoner] * 1
    #828161 - 08/27/17 10:08 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

And a great detective!


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: volcomstoner] * 1
    #828479 - 09/12/17 09:08 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-017-0224-z

Pretty neat article on the 'missing link' between stellar black holes and supermassive black holes.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829053 - 10/17/17 06:44 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #829063 - 10/18/17 11:57 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Anything above sea level would parish?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #829071 - 10/18/17 02:41 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

You need to stfu sometimes. Seriously dood


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: King Koopa]
    #829078 - 10/18/17 05:05 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Don't encourage him


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #829086 - 10/18/17 07:17 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:


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Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy] * 1
    #829102 - 10/19/17 03:01 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

It's interesting to see a trend like that. Honestly, I would love to see further research continue the trend, as that means that our reckless abuse of fossil fuels might not wreck the planet as badly as previously thought.

Having said that, a quick search yields several recent studies (2016) and publications that continue to claim large values for global temperature change beyond the next century. I am not claiming that these data points are any more relevant or accurate, merely that they exist but do not appear in the plot.

Climate science is another area of science that is (for the most part) misunderstood and misused on a regular basis. Climate science is just like any other science,the models and predictions are formulated based on the data available at the time, and are subject to change when new data arrives. Too many people claim that the predictions of climate science are fact, when they are not, they are guesses.

However, the best guess of a community of people who wrap their entire lives around the study of the topic they are guessing on, are the people who should be looked to for humanity's best guess on the topic. Note, that doesn't mean that their word should be taken as fact, but rather as the best guess we have...that distinction makes a huge difference when determining what actions should be taken based on that guess.

Additionally, climate science is in this weird place relative to society, similar to racial issues. In order to acknowledge that an aggressive global effort needs to be taken, one must also accept that everything that their life is built on was a giant mistake. That is difficult for a society to swallow. It makes it even harder to act when the effects of the mistake may not show up in one's lifetime. Thus, issues like this are almost impossible to look at from a purely logical standpoint from both sides of the table. One side takes the illogical fear bias and claims that radical action should be taken at all costs, because what if the other side is wrong...while the other side takes the dismissive bias and claims that we will completely fuck up the economy and our way of living for something we don't not 100% know is going to happen, and if it does it won't happen in our lifetime. Then there are other people standing in the corner who are somewhere in the middle, but do not want to fight with the warring factions at the table.

Such a sticky situation. We could avoid it all by dumping money into development of space infrastructure, and get off planet....not that I'm exposing my biases or anything :bobmarley:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829103 - 10/19/17 03:49 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Similar opinion from this guy.
Some of those article suggest interesting things that don't make sense based on what I know about climate forcing, but they are published papers so they can't be as straight-up wrong as my preconception tell me.

Changes in the greenhouse effect is, actually, lower down on my list of things that I am concerned about with increased CO2 emissions, but for some of my fears a melting of the north pole ice cap is required.

Ocean acidification is real and must occur if atmospheric CO2 levels rise, but I can't say for certain that the ocean doesn't have some method to sequestor all that carbonic acid. Especially since increased concentrations of carbonic acid/carbonate/bicorbonate (which would all occur from large increases in CO2 in the atmosphere) *edit* ANY increase in CO2 in the atmosphere, from a technical perspective*  tend to have both positive and negative effects on ocean life (depending on what species/ecosystems you're focusing on). If the north poles ice cap melted ocean stratification would be a bitch to deal with.

I'm sure we can survive, but both of these things would really dick the biosphere real good.



I feel like my 3 courses on climate aren't really sufficient for me to act like I have the answers, but it has shown me that saying "it's complicated" is an understatement considering the interaction of feedback mechanisms for climate forcing, both positive and negative.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #829131 - 10/21/17 02:35 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Oceans acidify warm or rise kill coral a carbon sink then release more and can sequester as much co2. Trippy eh;) negative feedback loop

Concerning is not just when greenland melts or aa melts but simply warming of the ocean causes enough expantion to fuck shit up.

We are coming into 100 cicle that has been happening for thousands of years. Last was dirty thirties approx 100 years ago.  And will notice.most weather records are from around then.

1400s were approx as hot as far as we can tell as it is now..

Soo what does it all mean. We dont know what may influence warming and if we will oush it further then it should go. No one can know but polution sucks eitger way. And warning either way so need to figure out how to deal with the coast and ocean rise and make sure people can accept that without having to accept global warmibg is anthropogenic. Or manmade. Thats most inportant. Not say oil is bad as people will just shut down if u say tgat. Plus we all live in large homes drive and eat fruit where gortex. so cant say oil is bad


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Theman]
    #829132 - 10/21/17 06:41 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

To be fair, I have a tiny house and have never driven a car, outside of learning how to drive, 28 year old.

But am still just as guilty really, but I definitely don't drive.

I'm not too concerned here in Kansas. I may move west to get out of tornado alley.

Milankovitch cycles should be pushing us cooler soon. Lot's of people think it should have already started cooling earlier this decade due to these orbital factors. I've never looked into how those paleoclimate folks figured that stuff out... we can just check out current orbital parameters with a fairly low amount of work... right? I suppose the issue with that would be the lag between the forcing from changes in solar energy and the climate response.

If anyone is interested/bored. Look into climate oscillations. The El nino/nina one is well known, but there are quite a few that are pretty interesting to pay attention to.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #829134 - 10/21/17 11:00 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

No. I tried contributing and everyone laughed at me.

:unwanted:


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I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #829136 - 10/21/17 11:24 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't laugh.

But then again, I can't laugh. I am an android...

:androidlol:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Theman]
    #829137 - 10/21/17 11:45 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Theman said:
Not say oil is bad as people will just shut down if u say tgat. Plus we all live in large homes drive and eat fruit where gortex. so cant say oil is bad




That's like telling a smoker with lung cancer that he can't tell other people not to smoke, or advocate legislation against the promotion of smoking to media consumed primarily by children.

People who shut down for the apparent hypocrisy are just ignoring their own bias and justifying their response with something that just isn't there.

The use of fossil fuels or products derived from the use of fossil fuels is a necessity to not starve to death in modern society. The whole point of spreading the word about the need to decouple from fossil fuels is because it takes a unified effort in order to do so. A few people can't just stop using fossil fuels and then convince everyone else to join them out in the woods...thats ridiculous. We have to all advocate the decoupling from fossil fuels, in order to drive a development of alternative technologies. We have to help those technologies get off the ground, get the infrastructure in place, incentivise the switch...or just let the world flop around in complete panic when we run out of fossil fuels in the noy so distant future, and eventually get to the same place We'll end up anyway...but probably end up with a lot more acute suffering along the way.

I would imagine that being solely dependant on a fuel for our very way of life will make us very desperate people, willing to do anything to get it when it starts becoming scarce. The probability of war between countries will more than likely rise as we approach that point of running out. Having a replacement on hand will alleviate those tensions somewhat...and would allow us to maintain something similar to our current way of life. All of that technology requires time to develop, and energy...energy that we won't have available if we wait too long.

:2cents:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829187 - 10/23/17 11:16 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Tgat smoking analogy doesnt really mean anything. 100% dif.

But being a hypocrite makes ome sound uneducated or ignorant millenial complain and expect others to fix and make  o change themselves.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Theman]
    #829190 - 10/24/17 07:55 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps you would care to explain why my analogy is 100% different. I see an interpretation of hypocracy when the situation and intent is wholly ignored. Thus, the analogy is relevant.

I am saying that less introspective people may see that message as hypocratic, because they are looking for any pseudo-logical reason to ignore said message. Trying to reduce your carbon footprint as much as possible and still keep up is enough to start a call to legislators to work on a solution for the necessary, baseline carbon footprint necessary to survive in society.

It's everyone's problem, stating that while trying to change your small part of it is not hypocrisy in my book.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829246 - 10/26/17 06:09 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

4-dimensional black hole could have spawned the universe.

Time to switch topics...everyone smoke up and think about this one for a minute...


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #829523 - 11/10/17 01:47 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(16)31385-X

Haven't had a chance to fully read through this, but it looks like they've resolved how different cannabinoids interact with the CB1 receptor in different ways, resulting in different effects.

I'll read it when the semester breaks in December, for now I'll post it here.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #829544 - 11/12/17 09:09 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

This and different sex positions.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #829592 - 11/15/17 02:54 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Climatology sucks balls


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #829594 - 11/15/17 03:40 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

?


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data] * 1
    #829595 - 11/15/17 04:56 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Just spent like 50 hours writing one little 6 page term paper on paleoclimatic proxies. Fuck that shit, never again.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #829628 - 11/16/17 02:24 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Yea research projects and papers take up way too much time and effort.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829629 - 11/16/17 02:28 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

What are you going to school for? That paper sounds hella interesting.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829637 - 11/16/17 07:53 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Finishing up my Bsc. I'll send it you if you like. Would be interesting to have your opinion.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829638 - 11/16/17 08:50 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Data said:
Yea research projects and papers take up way too much time and effort.




Any other topic I'd have a comparable paper done in half the time or less


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde] * 1
    #829640 - 11/16/17 09:05 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

drawde said:
Finishing up my Bsc. I'll send it you if you like. Would be interesting to have your opinion.




Yeah man. For sure.


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Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #829651 - 11/16/17 09:46 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

drawde said:
Just spent like 50 hours writing one little 6 page term paper on paleoclimatic proxies. Fuck that shit, never again.



So, do you mind me ask you what isotope ratios and types of specimens used were?

I wrote a dozen or so pages as a review about the messinian salinity crisis, km thick gypsum beds man. So T H I C C

It's amazing how many other chemistry bros don't even know stable isotopes exist, and that their existence has a much larger impact on the "atomic mass" we use to convert between mass and moles. I assume its because radiometric dating, and atomic chemistry focuses much more on the more unstable isotopes.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #829652 - 11/16/17 10:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

It was all very brief but I discussed tree-rings, Sr/Ca in corals, and pollen.

Yeah even I knew about everything you mention there long before doing this climate course, and I never even got through first year chemistry.
I notice similar things with people who actually do chemistry, and end up having to explain concepts.
The lack of knowledge 'educated' people exhibit routinely floors me.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #829653 - 11/16/17 10:05 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

drawde said:
Finishing up my Bsc. I'll send it you if you like. Would be interesting to have your opinion.




I'd actually love to give it a read :highfive:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829680 - 11/17/17 09:45 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Data said:
I didn't laugh.

But then again, I can't laugh. I am an android...

:androidlol:





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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde]
    #829682 - 11/18/17 05:07 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

drawde said:
It was all very brief but I discussed tree-rings, Sr/Ca in corals, and pollen.





Nice, amazon tree rings? Once I learned about Rayleigh distillation, and how it can influences with isotope ratios in tree rings as you move in land, my mind was melted as I realized all the tools we obviously have to understand how the climate has changed over time.

Don't mention tree rings around night owl though, I specifically remember being told that statistically significant data with n=1000's wasn't "science." I was so triggered.


--------------------
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #829683 - 11/18/17 07:39 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Did you know that a trees age can be calculated by it's rings?

:mindblown:

Whose the smart guy now? It's like... It's like... The guy who created shroomery and growery... no, wait. Bad example. :facepalm:


--------------------
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Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #829686 - 11/18/17 12:15 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

poor boy said:
Did you know that a trees age can be calculated by it's rings?

:mindblown:

Whose the smart guy now? It's like... It's like... The guy who created shroomery and growery... no, wait. Bad example. :facepalm:




Until proven otherwise, I tend to think everyone is smart.

Thanks for the assist on that fam.

Did you know it;s rings are made due to periods of high and low growth rates?


--------------------
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

I am tired of Earth
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint] * 1
    #829690 - 11/18/17 02:46 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
Nice, amazon tree rings?




Pines in the Alps


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: drawde] * 1
    #829788 - 11/22/17 02:29 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

First interstellar asteroid discovered.

I know this is a little late, but now they've actually got a little data on this thing.

Because of its extra-solar origin, it's orbit is hyperbolic (it's speed is beyond the escape velocity of the solar system). It is currently leaving the solar system at more than twice the speed of Voyager 1.

I'm super disappointed that they didn't get a chance to directly image it during closest approach to earth.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829872 - 11/23/17 08:59 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Erf is flat. We live in a dome. There's water above us. The sun and moon are in our dome and are closer then we think. We can't leave.


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #829900 - 11/25/17 08:38 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Hey, "data". I know you were looking forward to the homemade manned rocket launch today, but california just couldn't resist being california and told him he did not have the ok. Do not worry though, my son. He found some private property out on route 66 and is going to push to launch this tues.

:prettyflyforawhiteguy:

I think the gov is scared that this guy is going to prove once and for all that the erf is flat.

20.00 says rocket boy dies from "natural causes" before tues.

House fire
Burglury
Mass shooting
Food poisoning

The gov needs to relax though. Not sure why their trippin. It's not like this launch will be successful.


--------------------
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I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #829902 - 11/25/17 11:32 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I honestly had no idea that someone was attempting this. I don't see how launching himself 1800 ft up is going to prove anything though...since regular helium balloons can rise higher than that, elementary school kids have sent cameras up higher than 1800 ft. :shrug:

Besides, we all know that tha erf is 1,000,000 percent flat...its obvious dat shit a firmnamnmrmnment muhfukka


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829904 - 11/25/17 12:16 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

How do flat earthers explain the movement of shadows over time/with variable latitude?

Should i start finding locations to make measurements from so I have primary information?


--------------------
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #829905 - 11/25/17 12:25 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Data said:
I honestly had no idea that someone was attempting this. I don't see how launching himself 1800 ft up is going to prove anything though...since regular helium balloons can rise higher than that, elementary school kids have sent cameras up higher than 1800 ft. :shrug:

Besides, we all know that tha erf is 1,000,000 percent flat...its obvious dat shit a firmnamnmrmnment muhfukka




This is not what this launch is about. We all know the earth is round and this guy is an idiot.

People did not donate money because they believe him. It's actually the opposite. People donated money so we can all watch a retard shoot himself up and explode.

It's like watching those beheading videos. You know it's going to be fucked up. You know how it's going to end... doesn't mean you're not going to watch it...

Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
How do flat earthers explain the movement of shadows over time/with variable latitude?

Should i start finding locations to make measurements from so I have primary information?




Do it


--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #829912 - 11/25/17 02:32 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Should be spectacular.

Did I also hear that he's running for Governor of California?

Flat earther's make me giggle, they don't realize that it's actually much harder to adequately explain all observable phenomena using a flat earth model than with a spheroid earth model. Also none of them seem to understand how photography works, or that gasses and liquids do similar things to light, or the difference between velocity and acceleration...or anything in general except determined ignorance. :shrug:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829913 - 11/25/17 03:10 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

All of them are dumb ass shit and shouldn't be taken seriously. Like you said earlier, this is elementary education


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829914 - 11/25/17 03:30 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

That erf guy is a complete troll. Its great. A troll with a following.


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Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #829916 - 11/25/17 04:36 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I kinda thought he was, I thought I caught him crackin up at one point during the video...but you can never be sure with flat-earthers, he may have just been smiling about his next poopsnack...you know...cuz he cray


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829917 - 11/25/17 04:42 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah. You might be right, but what if... what if the earth is flat and the "science" you were taught in school was fake?


--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #829918 - 11/25/17 06:18 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

That's a good skeptical attitude, and I completely support that attitude towards a public education system, which is susceptible to turning into a brainwashing system for corrupt governments.

However, just like the erf guy says, there are many ways to go out and test the simple physical principles behind the scientific consensus on a spheroid earth model. Remember that people figured this problem out 400+ years ago, using fairly simple yet extremely clever experiments that can easily be reproduced by amateur skeptics.

I do not advocate blind faith in the sciences, but I also do not advocate blind faith in one's own ability to reason out astrophysics in a data vacuum. :pipesmoke:


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: Data]
    #829919 - 11/25/17 07:02 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

You always gotta go and suck the fun out of everything. You're like the gym coach that was forced into teaching 2nd period math.

Boo, data. Boo on you.


--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better


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Re: General Science Thread [Re: poor boy]
    #829933 - 11/26/17 11:37 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)