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 C-Rooster
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Registered: 01/15/12
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Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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 Help led or hid or both? 
#794162 - 09/22/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey! First of all thanks for having me i read a ton on here and several other sites but this is the site i chose to be a part of. Anyways lets get started. I have started a small grow bc of some health issues. I have a completely secluded giant room in my own basement that is vlimate controlled. I got some gorilla easy kush idk prolly 20" tall in some ffof in a smart pot. I got the go box nutes from general hydro i have been using in small doses about 1/4 to half strength now. I have a 2x4x4 tent a 4"exhaust fanand a small fan for air movement and help plant and a galaxyhydro 300w led on it. Everything seems to be going ok as far as veg. I have read alot that makes me worry about flowering. Any experienced galaxyhydro 300w led guys jump in. I do have a 1000w adjustable phantam 2 ballast and hortilux bulbs but i havent bought me a hood yet not real sure which one to get or if im even gonna need it. I have been looking at and thinking about the xml350. I have bought everything i need to do a sport cooler dwc project as well and i will eventually be getting a flower tent as well. But right now w 1 plant going i figured 1 tent would be fine. I figured id start my own thread so i could ask questions as needed.
First what do yall think on the lights? Do you think the galaxyhydro 300w led will flower the plant well? If not what hood should i get for my adjustable ballast? And what setting would i run in a tent that small? Right now my plant is very healthy and is smelling up the whole downstairs smells great. Thanks for help.
Edited by C-Rooster (09/24/15 01:55 PM)
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 AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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 Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#794429 - 09/24/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Try Truth Lightings line of LEDs. They are specifically designed for growing cannabis, the DC Hydro shop love them, it provides the proper spectrums to maximize photosynthesis' chlorophyll a, b & beta-carotene production. Also a 1000w hps bulb is burning 250°c. the M16 LED out performs a 1000w HPS, and burns –20°c to 60°c and is 675W. So keeping that room cooler will be easier. No HID can produce the spectrums LEDs are. My Opinion. the M16 supports a 5x5-6x6 just fine too.. Hope your decision goes all well for you.
Edited by AGrower (09/24/15 09:15 PM)
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resincoatedlungs
Brickweed Aficionado
Registered: 09/05/12
Posts: 501
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: AGrower]
#794436 - 09/24/15 05:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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People will argue about this topic forever but, IMO, HPS is still the most financially efficient choice for flowering, unless you've got 1-2.5K to drop on high end LEDs, then you're not all THAT worried about "financially efficient". 
Would definitely get a bigger tent as 2ftx4ft = 8 sq ft --> 50w/sq ft = 400w HID for max. efficiency in your tent per sq ft of space used.
So a tent with around ~20 sq ft is what you're looking for. (Something like 4ftx5ft )
Remember, negative space in the tent eqauls more money, wattage, risk, and time wasted for less bud and trim. Don't be afraid to fill EVERY last sq inch with bud. 
The grows in my sig were done with a 400w HPS so 1000w should have you sittin' pretty between each harvest.
Also, don't waste your nutrients in this early stage. FFOF consistently sustains healthy growth for the first ~30 days of vegetation without supplementing with anything.
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Man Eater 12
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C-Rooster
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Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Yeah im a noob so i just wanted to start small. I picked up a gorilla tent today 4x2x6'11 imma use as flower tent.
I know you are right about neg space but im just getting started and i wanna get it figured out before i screw up a bunch of plants and its just for me personally. Started a auto lemon and lemon seeds 2 days ago. Maybe ill try to do one of those in the sport cooler... but idk
The ballast i have is adjustable i can back it down to 450 i think ill havta dbl check.
What would be a good hood to match up with the ballast?
I started supercropping plant other day about a week after topping plant and i think i hurt my 2 main stalks. So im done with that til i get some grows under my belt.
Im in late 2nd month of veg so i been supplementing in small doses but i may chill on that too until plant starts showing needs. Any advise?
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AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#794466 - 09/24/15 09:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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take some snapshots, take clones of each. pre-sex clones. or are you using feminized seeds?
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C-Rooster
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: AGrower]
#794540 - 09/25/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah i got the stuff to do it. And im studying up on cloning and doing it right but i hate to start cutting my plant up. With my luck ill kill the dam thing... i tried taking some cuttings from the fruit trees in my yard. Fig, pear, and blueberry and all of those died. So until i get something going my way i hate to start chopping away at my plant. I will post some pix asap tho. I got a guy wanting to sell me his galaxy grow 400/600 hid setup for 250 which i think would be smaller and cooler than mine. I havent made a solid decision on which led i want to buy. I do alot of research before i drop 1000.00ish dollars on one.
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C-Rooster
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#794542 - 09/25/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes fem seeds
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AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#794655 - 09/26/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is your seedling now looking healthier than from about a month ago?
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AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#794656 - 09/26/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
C-Rooster said:
Yeah i got the stuff to do it. And im studying up on cloning and doing it right but i hate to start cutting my plant up. With my luck ill kill the dam thing... i tried taking some cuttings from the fruit trees in my yard. Fig, pear, and blueberry and all of those died. So until i get something going my way i hate to start chopping away at my plant. I will post some pix asap tho. I got a guy wanting to sell me his galaxy grow 400/600 hid setup for 250 which i think would be smaller and cooler than mine. I havent made a solid decision on which led i want to buy. I do alot of research before i drop 1000.00ish dollars on one.
if you have an LED already, and own a 1000w ballast and what not, I would not purchase anything from a friend. Your setup seems fine, if like you thought the ballast can be adjusted to be lower, since your room is not considered size for a 1000wHPS. But use it Veg with your LED and Flower with the HPS. Id get that set up right away. If your going to spend money, you might as well spend it on something you don't have that could upgrade your garden, such as meters, nutrients, hydroponic systems, a hydro-cloner like you need, you know
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AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#794657 - 09/26/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
C-Rooster said:
Yes fem seeds
You need clones before you flower, to veg them under your led so they are 45-70 days old before tossed under the 1000w
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C-Rooster
Stranger
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: AGrower]
#794714 - 09/26/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I got meters and nutrients and everything for a hydro grow but the air line. I need a clone setup. And my nutes are for soil so imma grab me some andvanced nutrients they may be expensive but i havent seen anyone have anything neg to say about them. My hos setup only goes down to 600w which is still alot for that tent size..
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C-Rooster
Stranger
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#794913 - 09/28/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So is my light (phantom 2 adjustable 1000w ballast down to 600w) gonna be way too big for my flower tent (2x4x6'11 gorilla)?
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AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#794929 - 09/28/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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HPS: 250w 2x2 : 400w 3x3 (*or smaller): 600w about 3.5x3.5 : 1000w about 4x4
If you're 2x4, you may as well say it its the same as a 3x3 just with 1sq/ft difference actually. 600 instead of 400. Can you control heat good enough, is leaving the closet open periodically an option, you say it's 6ft tall, there's some play there, consider ScrOG? In a 2x4 I owned, I personally would make 600w work... But I don't know if you should risk that, though a 2x4 w/ a 3.5x3.5, doesn't seem like much difference 4sq/ft difference. If you can control your environment well enough try it. remember the bulbs burning around 240C that's 464F. May have to edit the ventilation & circulation.
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C-Rooster
Stranger
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#795009 - 09/28/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not in closet in my huge downstairs room. I have a dehumidfier to help control rh%. The tent iss 4x2x6'11 w a 12" extention on top of that. Its a gorilla tent. My veg tent led 300w is running at 75 degrees and 50-55 rh. I should have snatched the 400/600 turbo ballast but didnt kicking myself. Whats a good air hood i could use to pull heat out? I have a 4in fan and can get another or a 6". Im trying to get setup to grow right. Im not young or at home or limited on what im allowed spend but im not super rich but i live in the country on the river w land. I just wanna do it right.
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AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#795055 - 09/28/15 09:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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its possible, so set it up brother. Veg w/ LED flower with HPS
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AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: AGrower]
#795056 - 09/28/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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try to set up led veg in 1 room, hps flower in another bigger room
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C-Rooster
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: AGrower]
#795100 - 09/29/15 05:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thats what im gonna do. Just worried about the heat. All i can do is try it out and see i guess.
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AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#795117 - 09/29/15 07:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Let us know
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phychotron
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Loc: Earth (mostly) 
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: AGrower] 1
#796869 - 10/14/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Check out the links in my signature if you want to see what ive been doing with LED's.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
 Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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SevenFingers
Yamabushi
Registered: 01/20/09
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Loc: Canada
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: C-Rooster]
#800510 - 12/05/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey everyone, been looking very seriously into the LEDs available on the market today.
I've gotten it down between two lights, so I am just going ahead with the purchase of both.
BlackStar Chrome 720 and Truth Lighting M-16
I'll let you know in the spring how they work out.
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Stay High, Stay Safe.
Edited by SevenFingers (12/05/15 04:10 PM)
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phychotron
Medicated
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Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: SevenFingers]
#800560 - 12/06/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I started with blackstar fixtures and not a very big fan of them. They have changed their design a bit to look more like the Growblu/Kind but I'm not going to risk my money on a brand I've already learned was cheap shit.
I had a growblu and got rid of it mostly from diode failure (14 of the 16 of the round pods had one or two diodes burn out) and to upgrade to Advanced LED's XML 650.
If its a growblu/kind clone you should do alright, but not the absolute best. If its anything like they used to make a few years ago then its crap.
2011: Paid #300 for a light, one year later it goes off warranty and half burned out--the store said "sounds like you got a good run out of it.. new light board is only $75..."
Basically they were trying to tell me it would cost me $75/year to keep it running after the $300 for the first year. Then when I went to get a couple of them for other lights they stopped selling them.
MY personally opinion is that they're a low end, entry level (aka they sell you crap cause you didn't want to invest)
HOLY SHIT! I just looked at the prices of those lights. FUCK both of those if your spending over $1000
I haven't heard much about truth but this fixture has a few clones out there. I see it as an up and coming generic.
Get an XML650 with a lifetime warranty if your spending that much. the xml350 is not as diode rich as the 650 and not as practical for the $.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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SevenFingers
Yamabushi
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Posts: 124
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: phychotron]
#800566 - 12/06/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
If its a growblu/kind clone you should do alright, but not the absolute best. If its anything like they used to make a few years ago then its crap.
HOLY SHIT! I just looked at the prices of those lights. FUCK both of those if your spending over $1000
Get an XML650 with a lifetime warranty if your spending that much.
I was looking at the Kind brand, in fact was my first choice as money is not too huge a factor. However, I sent the company some emails over a week ago and no response. So based on customer service I am reluctant to go with them.
It`s hard to sift through all the BS surrounding LED lighting.
Truth has a 6 year comprehensive warranty which covers the entire 50,000 hour lifespan of the diodes, compared to Advanced LED 3 year warranty, so that`s a huge selling factor for me.
Thanks for the feedback psychotron.
Seriously considering the XML650 now, despite the cost increase.
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Stay High, Stay Safe.
Edited by SevenFingers (12/06/15 04:15 PM)
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SevenFingers
Yamabushi
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Loc: Canada
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: SevenFingers]
#800567 - 12/06/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Stay High, Stay Safe.
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phychotron
Medicated
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: SevenFingers]
#800574 - 12/06/15 05:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The 50,000 hours of the diodes is like 23 years at 12/12. Advanced offers a lifetime warranty on the XML, they said for as long as they are in business they will send replacement parts.
Also, if you call or email them you'll get a much better deal. I paid $1435 for the 650 delivered.
Sucks to be in Canada. Try calling them and see whats up
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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SevenFingers
Yamabushi
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Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: phychotron]
#800575 - 12/06/15 05:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
The 50,000 hours of the diodes is like 23 years at 12/12. Advanced offers a lifetime warranty on the XML, they said for as long as they are in business they will send replacement parts.
Also, if you call or email them you'll get a much better deal. I paid $1435 for the 650 delivered.
Sucks to be in Canada. Try calling them and see whats up
Yeah I'll be following up tomorrow during business hours.
Also, Kind K5 XL750 is easily available at my local shop. Why should I choose XML 650 over K5 XL750?
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Stay High, Stay Safe.
Edited by SevenFingers (12/06/15 06:05 PM)
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phychotron
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: SevenFingers]
#800608 - 12/07/15 07:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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http://advancedledlights.com/xml-350-vs-kind-l600/
The spectrum is more matched to the PAR curve. Also if you notice the PAR readings are over 1000 under the light at 18 inches in the center four squares, whereas kind is 443-875. You want around 7-900 to flower cannabis well. I guess the solution is just to put the Kind closer to the plants to get them in the more intense light, but then your sacrificing area coverage because the plants need to be directly under it. This is more important when you run multiple fixtures and the light in between them overlaps.
I've never used a Kind LED, but I don't like that fixture because its not modular, and that's one expensive light to invest in. For not being modular your going to hate having to repair it should anything go wrong. Gotta send it back to them so their electrician can work on it, then ship it back to you. Hopefully its not inconvenient to not have your light for 1-3 weeks.
one guy just started a grow log at icmag this week with that light.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
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Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: phychotron]
#801555 - 12/16/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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drrr
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
Edited by phychotron (12/16/15 01:03 PM)
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ShroomingChaos
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: phychotron]
#801901 - 12/20/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Phychotron what would you say is the best starter LED? I want to run LED for my clones and possibly my veg room. I need to save on power. I have been looking heavily into the Induction Grow lights that HTG has though. I run anywhere from 2-3 cloning buckets with 8 plants per bucket and in my veg room I usually keep 16 in a 5x5 space under a 1k MH or HPS light currently.
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ashfiken
im home
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He pushes the advanced diamond series I believe, although you would have to specify "beginner" needs
Cheers
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Hmmm
I'm from shroomery
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phychotron
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A 5x5 is one of the hardest sized area to cover. I'm looking at the Advanced LED's veg lights, but they only have 200 (130w) and 300 (330w) models, covering 3x3 and 4x4 respectively (core coverage, if your serious about growth, which you should be if your spending that much. You'd want 4 of the 200's and it'd be more than enough for a 5x5, it cover for a 6x6 (36sq-ft) area. Best option probably for veg lights, but expensive at $469 each (4 for $1876). I'm not sure why the wattage of the 200 is 130 and 200 is 330,it might be a site error, but only 50% more lights and over two times the wattage increase.
The 300w covers an odd area, you'd want to get two, maybe three, but overall is not built for a square area. I emailed them awhile ago and asked them if they could build a square fixture, guess they haven't got around to it. Two might be fine, but I've never used their veg lights so its hard to say. $795 each (2 for $1590)
With that though, your limited to only vegging. I'd say you'd be able to get the best of LED's by getting a flower light, such as a few of the XTE series, or the XML650. XTE might not be the best way to fill a 5x5 either.
I just got an XML650 for $1435 delivered. The light is the best option for flowering and vegging. I'd say the four 200 veg lights might be a little better just to spread the light out more evenly, but the 650 is a powerful light and will veg no problem. The thing even has dimmers on both the colors and the white so you can adjust it or lower the wattage. That alone is pretty sweet. Instead of having to raise or lower the lights you could just crank down the knob. It also has a lifetime warranty. They told me in an email when I questioned them about it (@12/12 its 23+yrs if you go by the 50,000 hours on the diodes) that they would send me parts as to fix it for as long as they are in business.
I've tried other brands, Advanced LED actively works to develop their lights to grow plants with. They're not just randomly throwing in colored diodes and calling it good, or reselling some cheap chinese fixture, they test different diodes and spectrum combinations with a spectrometer and par meter to dial into the plants needs. I had a GrowBlu fixture that was good, I sold it after 90% of the modules had one or two diodes burn out within the first year. I fixed it with the new parts they sent me before I sold it six months ago, now their website is down, I suspect for good if the one guy who was "designing" the lights couldn't keep up with that much warranty cost... If EVERY light had an issue it'd probably put him out of business real quick.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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ShroomingChaos
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: ashfiken]
#801981 - 12/21/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ashfiken said:
He pushes the advanced diamond series I believe, although you would have to specify "beginner" needs
Cheers
I specified my "beginner" needs so maybe you should read my post before replying.
Thanks Phychotron for all of your advice. What about for cloning? Im not going to be able to afford that many LEDs to cover my 5x5 veg room. Its way out of my budget right now lol
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phychotron
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you mean a "waste my money" light? You can pick those cheap fixtures up anywhere...
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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GoonerHeClips
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: phychotron]
#802241 - 12/27/15 07:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
you mean a "waste my money" light? You can pick those cheap fixtures up anywhere...
How would you say LED lights compare to T5 lights for veg in terms of performance vs. price? Seems a huge jump in price but they last longer than T5 lights or grow plants that much better?
Or would you suggest someone continue with the T5 lights in veg and use LED lights in flowering? Is the improvement with heat and PAR or whatever along with longevity "worth it" to start buying LED lights for flower? This assumes one has some coin to spend on the lights as a long term investment.
Are LED light prices starting to drop? Will the folks who buy now be like the TV buyers who constantly regret the ever dropping prices for ever better products?
How much $$ would the LED lights for flower cost to replace an HPS 1000 watt ballast/light combination?
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ashfiken
im home
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: GoonerHeClips]
#802258 - 12/27/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Depends on brand/quality as far as replacing a 1000w, but I think the diamond series by advanced have something they offer as an equivalent and I believe it's 2000 and change. So quite pricey. But these are super nice LEDs. And from what I understand most people/LEDs use one light to both veg and flower, with a change in spectrum switch, so that is something to think about bc it's basically two lights in one. As far as the price line goes, I'd say you are accurate. The tech will get honed in prices will drop while leds take ova!!!!
Cheers
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Hmmm
I'm from shroomery
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phychotron
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Re: Help led or hid or both? [Re: ashfiken]
#802263 - 12/27/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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a 1000w replacement is not as straightforward with LED. The idea with LED is that you spread the lights out, so you don't just have a single point light source as with HPS.
T5 work amaazing in veg when you can get them really close to the plants. To get an LED specifically to veg is the last thing I did. I focused on flowering lights and eventually had enough to throw some of the flower lights into veg as they got replaced. LED work amazing in veg but its up to you if you want to spend the money to get off the dependence of having to replace the T5 bulbs.
When a cheap ass company says they have a 400w equivalent with 150w of LED they're referring to vegetative growth. But even then there is difference in area coverage, so that the 400 will cover a larger area, but not be as efficient. So it might take two of those 150w fixtures to spread the light evenly enough out to see the benefits of it.
The price of the high end TV's doesn't change, just the technology. In the LED market I doubt you'll see the aging technology drop in price, but rather just disappear altogether. Basically they'll just upgrade the lights with the newest chips and continue to charge a premium for it. The low end market will get better in that they will start using the quality diodes that the good manufactures are using now.
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Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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