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 GoonerHeClips
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 380
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Quote:
FirstGrow said:
my mix is "composted azolla/vermicompost/perlite" with the ratio of "2/1/1" (plus some dolomite lime.. pulverized eggshell actually..)
What kind of water are you using? tap? pH? TDS (total dissolved solids)?
Maybe you've overwatered? Too much calcium, not enough magnesium? Alkaline hard water?
What made you go with such a high amount of the composted azolla? Did you grind your own eggshell or buy it as a product?
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Quote:
FirstGrow said:
my mix is "composted azolla/vermicompost/perlite" with the ratio of "2/1/1" (plus some dolomite lime.. pulverized eggshell actually..)
Probably not over feeding then. I was reading through that guide I compiled, and it seems to have almost everything you'd need to know to solve a problem like the one you're having. BTW your problem isn't too bad. The top 3/4 of the plant look ok. They could be pointing upward more though.
Oh and I heard recently that when growing organic, you want to feed something like 2 weeks ahead of the time you're feeding for.
Edit add: using clean RO, filtered, or rain water is actually a lot more important than I used to think it was.
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FirstGrow
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 34
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
GoonerHeClips said:
Quote:
FirstGrow said:
my mix is "composted azolla/vermicompost/perlite" with the ratio of "2/1/1" (plus some dolomite lime.. pulverized eggshell actually..)
What kind of water are you using? tap? pH? TDS (total dissolved solids)?
Maybe you've overwatered? Too much calcium, not enough magnesium? Alkaline hard water?
What made you go with such a high amount of the composted azolla? Did you grind your own eggshell or buy it as a product?
Tap water, but only recently PH-adjusted. It was above 7.0 and I've watered them twice during last week with the same tap water though PH was adjusted to 6.5
TDS: 382.8 ppm
I had been over-watering them, I know. But I reconsidered the frequency like 10 days ago. So the burnt tips could actually be caused by that?
I used these specific composts, because they were the only types of potting soil I could get my hands on. I mixed it twice the amount of vermicompost, because I knew the latter was too rich in nitrogen.
Could be not enough Magnesium, but I've been waiting for the nutrients in soil to run out so I can give it water-soluble fert with all the nutes and trace minerals.
And I ground some eggshell for CaCo3.
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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I suck at identifying my own problems, and I think most problems are PH created intake issues, overwatering, or over feeding, but based on that guide I linked, I'd say it could also be potassium, calcium or iron, and any combination of the 3.
the problem with the tap water is the chlorine and who knows what else is in tap water. I've noticed my cold tap water has about 10 less ppm, than my hot. I guess because the hot water is stored in a hot water heater and accumulate chlorine from when it rains and they add more.
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FirstGrow
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 34
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Midgetpawn said:
Quote:
FirstGrow said:
my mix is "composted azolla/vermicompost/perlite" with the ratio of "2/1/1" (plus some dolomite lime.. pulverized eggshell actually..)
Probably not over feeding then. I was reading through that guide I compiled, and it seems to have almost everything you'd need to know to solve a problem like the one you're having. BTW your problem isn't too bad. The top 3/4 of the plant look ok. They could be pointing upward more though.
Oh and I heard recently that when growing organic, you want to feed something like 2 weeks ahead of the time you're feeding for.
Edit add: using clean RO, filtered, or rain water is actually a lot more important than I used to think it was.
Quote:
Midgetpawn said:
I suck at identifying my own problems, and I think most problems are PH created intake issues, overwatering, or over feeding, but based on that guide I linked, I'd say it could also be potassium, calcium or iron, and any combination of the 3.
the problem with the tap water is the chlorine and who knows what else is in tap water. I've noticed my cold tap water has about 10 less ppm, than my hot. I guess because the hot water is stored in a hot water heater and accumulate chlorine from when it rains and they add more.
Alright then. I will leave the water out in the open so the chlorine can be evaporated. And I'll continue watering them with PH-adjusted water and less often.
For the possible deficiencies, I have water-soluble fert which has N-P-K and other elements. but as I said, the soil was already nutrient-rich when I repotted and I'm afraid of giving them too much nitrogen. How long do you think I will need to wait for the compost to run out of nitrogen? It's been 3 weeks already.
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GoonerHeClips
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 380
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Quote:
FirstGrow said:
Quote:
GoonerHeClips said:
Quote:
FirstGrow said:
my mix is "composted azolla/vermicompost/perlite" with the ratio of "2/1/1" (plus some dolomite lime.. pulverized eggshell actually..)
What kind of water are you using? tap? pH? TDS (total dissolved solids)?
Maybe you've overwatered? Too much calcium, not enough magnesium? Alkaline hard water?
What made you go with such a high amount of the composted azolla? Did you grind your own eggshell or buy it as a product?
Tap water, but only recently PH-adjusted. It was above 7.0 and I've watered them twice during last week with the same tap water though PH was adjusted to 6.5
TDS: 382.8 ppm
I had been over-watering them, I know. But I reconsidered the frequency like 10 days ago. So the burnt tips could actually be caused by that?
I used these specific composts, because they were the only types of potting soil I could get my hands on. I mixed it twice the amount of vermicompost, because I knew the latter was too rich in nitrogen.
Could be not enough Magnesium, but I've been waiting for the nutrients in soil to run out so I can give it water-soluble fert with all the nutes and trace minerals.
And I ground some eggshell for CaCo3.
Dude, the last thing you need with that super hard alkaline water is more calcium. AND, you even added dolomite.
If you can possibly afford one, get an RO system, then add back. Otherwise buy some gallon containers of Crystal Geyser and don't add anything but pH down to 6.0 Almost 400 ppm really is hard, and alkaline water is a killer too. pH 6.5 isn't low enough, go 6.0.
Edited by GoonerHeClips (09/07/14 02:06 PM)
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FirstGrow
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 34
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Well, since I can't yet afford an RO system, I went on and bought some gallons of purified water. Hope it'll make a change. Leaf tips of my new growth are still yellowing/burning from the get go.
I'll update after a fortnight of applying the new precautions..
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GoonerHeClips
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 380
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Quote:
FirstGrow said:
Well, since I can't yet afford an RO system, I went on and bought some gallons of purified water. Hope it'll make a change. Leaf tips of my new growth are still yellowing/burning from the get go.
I'll update after a fortnight of applying the new precautions..
I think there are pitchers that take out most of the solids. You might want to check those out as an alternative to a full blown RO.
I'd try a tsp of epsom salts mixed in good with a gallon of water..
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lilmafia513
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 116
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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no problem man, thanks for checking it out.
The new growth looks a little yellow, but it may be good fresh growth, the new growth should be a light green color as it is younger material. If the yellowing keeps up, as long as you have been using plain water for a few, then start to SLOWLY add nutes to the water. Start at a 1/4 of directions on bottle.
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lilmafia513
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 116
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Quote:
FirstGrow said:
Quote:
Midgetpawn said:
Quote:
FirstGrow said:
my mix is "composted azolla/vermicompost/perlite" with the ratio of "2/1/1" (plus some dolomite lime.. pulverized eggshell actually..)
Probably not over feeding then. I was reading through that guide I compiled, and it seems to have almost everything you'd need to know to solve a problem like the one you're having. BTW your problem isn't too bad. The top 3/4 of the plant look ok. They could be pointing upward more though.
Oh and I heard recently that when growing organic, you want to feed something like 2 weeks ahead of the time you're feeding for.
Edit add: using clean RO, filtered, or rain water is actually a lot more important than I used to think it was.
Quote:
Midgetpawn said:
I suck at identifying my own problems, and I think most problems are PH created intake issues, overwatering, or over feeding, but based on that guide I linked, I'd say it could also be potassium, calcium or iron, and any combination of the 3.
the problem with the tap water is the chlorine and who knows what else is in tap water. I've noticed my cold tap water has about 10 less ppm, than my hot. I guess because the hot water is stored in a hot water heater and accumulate chlorine from when it rains and they add more.
Alright then. I will leave the water out in the open so the chlorine can be evaporated. And I'll continue watering them with PH-adjusted water and less often.
For the possible deficiencies, I have water-soluble fert which has N-P-K and other elements. but as I said, the soil was already nutrient-rich when I repotted and I'm afraid of giving them too much nitrogen. How long do you think I will need to wait for the compost to run out of nitrogen? It's been 3 weeks already.
If you use tap water, its really fine, dont listen to the critics that read somewhere tap water is poison....
I use ONLY TAP WATER, no buying water for high bills and paper trails...
Fill 2 gallon jugs with your tap water, use a air pump with 2 air stones on a splitter, and put an air stone in each jug. now, wait 24 hrs before adding anything to the jugs.
After 24 hrs take 1 jug, add nutes at introduction rates, and adjust PH accordingly. BAM, ready for watering.
You can also wait 24 hrs, add nutes, and wait another 12 hrs, and your PH should adjust by itself if your nutes do so. I used general hydro once and they claimed to have self adjusting PH...
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FirstGrow
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 34
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
lilmafia513 said:
Quote:
FirstGrow said:
Quote:
Midgetpawn said:
Quote:
FirstGrow said:
my mix is "composted azolla/vermicompost/perlite" with the ratio of "2/1/1" (plus some dolomite lime.. pulverized eggshell actually..)
Probably not over feeding then. I was reading through that guide I compiled, and it seems to have almost everything you'd need to know to solve a problem like the one you're having. BTW your problem isn't too bad. The top 3/4 of the plant look ok. They could be pointing upward more though.
Oh and I heard recently that when growing organic, you want to feed something like 2 weeks ahead of the time you're feeding for.
Edit add: using clean RO, filtered, or rain water is actually a lot more important than I used to think it was.
Quote:
Midgetpawn said:
I suck at identifying my own problems, and I think most problems are PH created intake issues, overwatering, or over feeding, but based on that guide I linked, I'd say it could also be potassium, calcium or iron, and any combination of the 3.
the problem with the tap water is the chlorine and who knows what else is in tap water. I've noticed my cold tap water has about 10 less ppm, than my hot. I guess because the hot water is stored in a hot water heater and accumulate chlorine from when it rains and they add more.
Alright then. I will leave the water out in the open so the chlorine can be evaporated. And I'll continue watering them with PH-adjusted water and less often.
For the possible deficiencies, I have water-soluble fert which has N-P-K and other elements. but as I said, the soil was already nutrient-rich when I repotted and I'm afraid of giving them too much nitrogen. How long do you think I will need to wait for the compost to run out of nitrogen? It's been 3 weeks already.
If you use tap water, its really fine, dont listen to the critics that read somewhere tap water is poison....
I use ONLY TAP WATER, no buying water for high bills and paper trails...
Fill 2 gallon jugs with your tap water, use a air pump with 2 air stones on a splitter, and put an air stone in each jug. now, wait 24 hrs before adding anything to the jugs.
After 24 hrs take 1 jug, add nutes at introduction rates, and adjust PH accordingly. BAM, ready for watering.
You can also wait 24 hrs, add nutes, and wait another 12 hrs, and your PH should adjust by itself if your nutes do so. I used general hydro once and they claimed to have self adjusting PH...
Thanks for the input, mate. I also thought that water TDS couldn't be a big problem. But since our tap water's hardness is 382.5, I've been having a hard time reducing the PH. It just bounces back. Today I finally bought some 5-gallon containers of purified water with TDS of 72, 2 dollars each.
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FirstGrow
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 34
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Ok. So I'll keep on giving them PH'd water with low TDS for the next few days to try and lower the PH of my mix.
These are some pics taken today. Can't wait to see some improvement..
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GoonerHeClips
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 380
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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I actually think they look a little better The leafs look less curled over than before and your plant looks happier. The necrosis on the lower leaves nowhere near as much. Try the epsom salts in low dosage, 1 tsp per gallon in your low solids water, mix well, pH, and give it to them. It will help you with your what I perceive is a calcium overdose. The calcium blocks the magnesium intake. The magnesium therefore in short supply. You still have a deficiency that may be it. Also sulfur from the sulfate. Give it a shot!
Also, suggest top off your pot with some Black Gold or equal soil, you have an inch and it's cheap.
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Oh shit wait. I take back what I said about over feeding. I mistook your soil mix for your food and I don't even know what you're feeding them. What are you feeding them? I've had similar problems from just over feeding and feeding less gave me great results. I actually think your plant looks ok for your first grow and you probably don't need to do much besides study for future feedings. It could be a lot worse for sure.
Don't worry too much about water besides avoiding straight tap water IMO. You should be fine letting the chlorine evaporate over a few days. You shouldn't need to buy an RO filter at least. Can always get brita type filter or use rain water.
btw I read some thorough study about eggshells vs hydrated lime, though you should always use dolomite lime since hydrated kills beneficial bacteria and fungi supposedly. anyway apparently eggshells will only work if you grind them to a fine powder and even if you get them ground as fine as possible it will take 1 week to a few months to buffer the PH. It works about 50% as well as hydrated lime according to that study.
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lilmafia513
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 116
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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why are people still telling him to add stuff to the water and ONLY use RO water????
Is anybody reading what i am typing???
Heres an idea....why dont we all tell him our ideas that we read somewhere and he can try 30 different things and give his plants everything that you use on yours, and see what happens....
Are we here to teach this person how to grow pot? Or here to argue whos idea is better?
Patience is key my friend....let the plant tell you what she needs...
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FirstGrow
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 34
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
GoonerHeClips said:
I actually think they look a little better The leafs look less curled over than before and your plant looks happier. The necrosis on the lower leaves nowhere near as much. Try the epsom salts in low dosage, 1 tsp per gallon in your low solids water, mix well, pH, and give it to them. It will help you with your what I perceive is a calcium overdose. The calcium blocks the magnesium intake. The magnesium therefore in short supply. You still have a deficiency that may be it. Also sulfur from the sulfate. Give it a shot!
Also, suggest top off your pot with some Black Gold or equal soil, you have an inch and it's cheap.
Firstly, It's much relief to know that they look better. Thanks.
I will definitely try the epsom salt as you said, for I've been reading more about deficiencies recently and one of my other plants has been showing more of the symptoms caused by MG def.
About Black Gold, unfortunately I don't have the luxury of being able to find whatever I need in town. People here are still farming traditionally and the 3 gardening stores here offer a very limited variety of stuff. It even took me a month to obtain a bottle of PH-down! lol
Anyway, thanks for the info on MG. :bb
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FirstGrow
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 34
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Midgetpawn said:
Oh shit wait. I take back what I said about over feeding. I mistook your soil mix for your food and I don't even know what you're feeding them. What are you feeding them? I've had similar problems from just over feeding and feeding less gave me great results. I actually think your plant looks ok for your first grow and you probably don't need to do much besides study for future feedings. It could be a lot worse for sure.
Don't worry too much about water besides avoiding straight tap water IMO. You should be fine letting the chlorine evaporate over a few days. You shouldn't need to buy an RO filter at least. Can always get brita type filter or use rain water.
btw I read some thorough study about eggshells vs hydrated lime, though you should always use dolomite lime since hydrated kills beneficial bacteria and fungi supposedly. anyway apparently eggshells will only work if you grind them to a fine powder and even if you get them ground as fine as possible it will take 1 week to a few months to buffer the PH. It works about 50% as well as hydrated lime according to that study.
I stopped feeding them a couple of days ago in fear of nitrogen burn (my compost was rich in N)! Before that I gave them a water-soluble fert with NPK of 11-7-9 with every other watering. I have in mind to resume fertilizing 2-3 days later. I'm going to flush them tomorrow with low TDS water to remove excessive calcium or such..
It's very reassuring to know that my plants are not doing too bad! 
Would that I could find dolomite lime.. It's nowhere to be found in my town. If it's so important, I'll have to order some from the capital then.
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FirstGrow
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 34
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
lilmafia513 said:
Patience is key my friend....let the plant tell you what she needs...
Great! Patience I'm good at! 
Will let them do so, mate... I appreciate your concern. 
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lilmafia513
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 116
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Quote:
FirstGrow said:
Quote:
lilmafia513 said:
Patience is key my friend....let the plant tell you what she needs...
Great! Patience I'm good at!
Will let them do so, mate... I appreciate your concern.
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FirstGrow
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/14
Posts: 34
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Ok. Thanks to you guys, I think my girls are looking a lot better. I kept on giving them 6.5 PH water and less often. I also gave them some epsom salt and the leaf-tips on my new growth are way better:
Only one thing; Is it normal to have pre-flowers like these during veg?
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