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 cyclonicthunder
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Registered: 10/30/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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 Why is this so hard? 
#722505 - 03/21/14 03:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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This must be the fifth time I've tried to start from seeds. Before I start, I must ask, are most plants supposed to be this finicky, or is it just hydroponics in general which is so? From the minimal amount of plants I've tried to grow in the past (lettuce, wild dagga, cat grass) they've all been a complete success, whereas this has been an expensive nightmare.
Anyways, the process this time went 1) put jiffy cube in water (tap water ph 7.0) til expands. 2) Put germinated seeds in hole, and cover over. 3) Put cubes a few inches under light (T5 flourescent) in bowl with perlite in bottom, with saran wrap covering bowl to raise humidity. 4) Once sprouted uncover saran, and direct a fan towards them. 5) Wait until soil is completely dry before watering again.
All was going according to plan until last night when I decided to increase the fans strength. When I did, the sprouts flapped in the wind (which I thought would strengthen them further). Satisfied I went to bed. When I woke up this morning 3/5 of the sproutlings which were healthy are now drooping over the sides of the cubes. The healthiest of the five sprouts now is drooping, and looks like it is thinning at the base of the stem.
So, two questions. Should I reinforce base with dirt, or tie them to toothpicks? Secondly, how would I water them? When they are completely dry and light brown, can I dunk the whole cube in water again, or put a few drops near the stem?
Regards.
 
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 P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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Quote:
4) Once sprouted uncover saran, and direct a fan towards them. 5) Wait until soil is completely dry before watering again.
I kept my seedlings moist till they were transplanted and bigger. (they are just babys). i doubt 3 day old seedlings need a fan too and to be so dry . I kept my seedlings in a humid/wet environment till they were ready to transplant.
Im kinda a newb grower too.... but this is what i did. and i had more success then you
Edited by P-O (03/21/14 05:58 PM)
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cyclonicthunder
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: P-O]
#722508 - 03/21/14 03:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So, dunk the jiffy cubes back in water, or use a spray bottle to moisten the sides and top?
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P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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just keep spraying em till they are wet (no need to submerge it) .... give those babys some much needed water...
then spray everything a few times and put on ur wrap layer
Edited by P-O (03/21/14 04:58 PM)
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cyclonicthunder
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: P-O]
#722511 - 03/21/14 03:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Will simply spraying the sides soak through the whole cube? (I picture it only wetting the outer layer)
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P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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put it on mist and spray the shit outta each of em (top too)... it will moisten up soon enough.
your babys are dying of thirst imo
Edited by P-O (03/21/14 04:56 PM)
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cyclonicthunder
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Roger. They are soaked now. Why do people say to wait until the soil is completely dry? (It seems like more of a balancing act to me)
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P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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i dont think that applies to couple day old seedling
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Mr. Wilson
purty-weiner-dog
Registered: 02/18/14
Posts: 206
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: P-O]
#722519 - 03/21/14 04:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah they do look a little dry
but umm id watch that humidity thing
damping off is a bitch
id mist em--keep fan and cover off
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 bit of last year's bounty
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cyclonicthunder
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Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
#722524 - 03/21/14 05:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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An update. After watering within 15 minutes, two started raising themselves up. The one with the thinner stem might not make it, though.
Should I be using calcium or magnesium in the water, or do the cubes contain enough? (Read that there should be enough in the tap water too).
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P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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i dont think u need any nutes yet. not for a few weeks.
but thats just what i was told, and what i did
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Farmer Joe
 
Registered: 09/03/09
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Loc: USA 
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
#722526 - 03/21/14 05:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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They do look thirsty. personally i would hand water over spraying them.
as wilson said...damping off is a bitch. It'd be best to leave them uncovered. They should still be able to handle a gentle breeze though.
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"Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal
Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.
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P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: Farmer Joe]
#722528 - 03/21/14 05:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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whats damping off?
(im still learning too)
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Farmer Joe
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Posts: 1,707
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: P-O]
#722532 - 03/21/14 06:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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excess moisture can cause fungus to form on the stem and it will begin to rot = damping off
I killed of a bunch of seedlings once when i used an un- vented humidity dome. Now i leave the seeds uncovered when i plant them.
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"Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal
Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.
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P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: Farmer Joe]
#722534 - 03/21/14 06:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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good to know 
thanks joe!
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Mr. Wilson
purty-weiner-dog
Registered: 02/18/14
Posts: 206
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: P-O]
#722537 - 03/21/14 06:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I personally don't do the jiffy 7's either
I do a custom mix in those six packs
and joe that sure is mighty fine pooch ya got there
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bit of last year's bounty
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phychotron
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
#722545 - 03/21/14 08:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've heard those jiffy cubes tend to suck the big one, but have never used them so I dunno for sure. I use a "seed starting mix" with 50% coco coir. the seed starting mix is terrible on its own, I would never use it because I poured water on the top of the pot and it stayed pooled up for a day, only to find right under the surface was bone dry out of the package. But they sell the stuff everywhere, it looks like coco coir and supplies some nutrients to the plant. If you want to go this route go with pre washed/treated coco as the bricks require more work. I've found this is the best way for me to feed my plants in early veg without trying to feed them coco nutrients right off the bat.
For a seedling there will be little to no moisture going through the plant, most of it from that cube is just natural air drying. You reach a point that the soil is so dry that the plant will no longer be able to recover, its called the Permanent Wilting Point (PWP). Thats the extreme dry, and the extreme wet is when you get damping off like it was mentioned. The stem just folds over at the base and its all soft and slimey looking where it meets the soil.
We all water by weight, tip/lift the pots when they are fully watered to get a feel of the max weight and when they are dry they are super light, know that feeling and you'll know when to water. Drench the soil so that there is some slight run off, unless you have a soil that is poor at draining then you'll want to ease up a little so its not fully super saturated and heavy.
Your right about balance, you don't need to let it get ALL the way dry, but you need to let it dry to the point that there is just enough water to keep it alive for another day or so.
Spring is here, get some tomato seeds and practice, hell you might even get some tomatoes out of it too!
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
 Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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Mr. Wilson
purty-weiner-dog
Registered: 02/18/14
Posts: 206
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: phychotron]
#722547 - 03/21/14 08:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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that's right big guy
spring is HERE
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bit of last year's bounty
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cyclonicthunder
Stranger
Registered: 10/30/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
#722559 - 03/21/14 10:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are some parts of the stem reddish purple in color because of underwatering?
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Mr. Wilson
purty-weiner-dog
Registered: 02/18/14
Posts: 206
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dunno about that one
its been said that purple stems/veins are a phosphorus deficiency but you aint there yet
just keep em moist till you get your first set of true leaves before you start in with the nutes
and don't fret about it so much just keep em moist for the next few days you'll be alright
btw did you buy those seeds or get em out of a sack
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bit of last year's bounty
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phychotron
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Registered: 02/17/11
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Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Nah they look like that at first, some more than others. It should green up on the upper part of the stems where the new growth comes in. That part of the stem turns woody/thick.
image search of "cannabis seedling" for some good examples.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: phychotron]
#722605 - 03/22/14 09:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have a question for you more experienced growers, hope the OP doesn't mind me posting it here, just dont want to start a new thread...
Is it ok to start your seedlings under 24 hour light? I dont like putting my seedlings under my MH so Ive been putting them under a CFL but I dont have an extra timer so I just leave it on all the time. Will this hinder their growth at all? Will any problems arise when I switch to my 18/6 MH?
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P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: bEelzeBosS]
#722641 - 03/22/14 11:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i think they will be fine bro. but maybe see what to boys say
I did 24/0 with my seedlings..... but im also vegging under 24/0 right now.
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Farmer Joe
Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 1,707
Loc: USA
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: P-O]
#722645 - 03/22/14 11:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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24 hrs of light is ok. I run my veg rooms 24/7. Switching to 18/6 won't hinder them either. If you keep the seedlings far enough away from your mh lamp you can put them under it now. (if you want to and have the space)
I germed my last batch of seeds under a 600w mh.
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"Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal
Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: Farmer Joe]
#722649 - 03/22/14 11:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks FJ. I dont really have room in my grow tent that contains the 400w MH for them, and everything in that tent is infested with fungus gnats anyway. So far Ive tried diatomaceous earth, SNS 209, and nematodes. Ive slowed them down a little but can't shake them and dont want to expose my seedlings to them. I didnt want to go this route but I guess my next step is AzaMax.
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Mr. Wilson
purty-weiner-dog
Registered: 02/18/14
Posts: 206
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: bEelzeBosS]
#722677 - 03/22/14 02:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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dammit man
hows about BT i ?? aka Skeeter Dunks
that would take care of the larvae then maybe some sticky traps if the flying bastards bother you
could just be talking out my ass tho??
but please don't start in with the heavy duty chemical shit
purty please
Edited by Mr. Wilson (03/22/14 02:50 PM)
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Hime
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
#722794 - 03/23/14 12:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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jup jup, those mosquito dunks worked for me, maybe a little over a quarter of a circle in a gallon of water and shaken n soaked for a few days. drench the soil and you can also crumble it up in a fine layer over the top of your soil. that and apple cider vinegar + some microbe rich bubbled run off, with a drop of dish soap to break water tension(in an open jar), really put a dent in this recent infestation i'm having.
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy 
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: Hime]
#722840 - 03/23/14 10:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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AzaMax is organic, many people swear by it and its sold by GH. Its just real expensive and from what Ive read can slow your growth down while you're using it.
I watered two of my bigger healthier plants with the weakest mixture on the chart last night to test it out, hopefully one dose will do the trick.
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phychotron
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Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
#722846 - 03/23/14 10:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You'll keep getting fungus gnats until you eliminate the source--usually they are in the bags of soil at the hydro store, always giving you a fungus gnat problem.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: phychotron]
#722847 - 03/23/14 10:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Anyway to treat the soil without killing all of the beneficial bacteria?
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phychotron
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Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: bEelzeBosS]
#722856 - 03/23/14 11:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I stopped using soil partly for that reason, bugs galore. I'm in coco coir now and its great. I cut the fungus gnats down with a layer of sand on top of the soil, ~3/4" layer prevents access to the soil. Maybe add diatomacous earth to the sand? DE straight on top forms a layer that the water can't penetrate that well, gotta mix it in with the soil on the top layer or it just cakes up like a clay.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
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Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: phychotron]
#722858 - 03/23/14 11:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mosquito dunks are a biological control, which is usually best. That was going to be my main method of attack but I switched to coco before I could try them, but I've heard they work well. The sand on top really did cut numbers pretty big though.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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cyclonicthunder
Stranger
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Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: phychotron]
#723174 - 03/25/14 06:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Two of my seedlings have broken through the bottom of the jiffy cube with roots, is it time to transfer to a 1 gallon of coco coir mixed with perlite, now?
Also, I have tried to test the water by weight, but even when they get wet, they are pretty similar to the dry weight, so it's hard to tell.
Last of all, the ends of the cotyledon are turning yellow, is this normal?
Thanks again.
 
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: phychotron]
#723212 - 03/25/14 03:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
I stopped using soil partly for that reason, bugs galore. I'm in coco coir now and its great.
I'm thinking about going that route soon. I have a shit load of coir bricks from my mushroom hobby, is there anything special I need to do with them before using them for MJ? These are what I have. I thought I read something a long time ago about having to treat or sterilize coir if its not purchased from a hydro shop?
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Quote:
cyclonicthunder said:
Two of my seedlings have broken through the bottom of the jiffy cube with roots, is it time to transfer to a 1 gallon of coco coir mixed with perlite, now?
Also, I have tried to test the water by weight, but even when they get wet, they are pretty similar to the dry weight, so it's hard to tell.
Last of all, the ends of the cotyledon are turning yellow, is this normal?
Thanks again.
Im still a noob but have successfully grown and harvested several plants the last few months and those seedlings look healthy as can be to me!
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P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: bEelzeBosS] 1
#723214 - 03/25/14 03:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think if the roots are stickin though its time to tranplant em to something bigger
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cyclonicthunder
Stranger
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Re: Why is this so hard? [Re: P-O]
#723227 - 03/25/14 05:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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@OnlinebEelzeBosS Excellent.
Now, I have a bunch of coco coir that has been sitting around for three months, which I used to start some basic seedlings in, but nothing that grew past a week. Can I use this still?
Edited by cyclonicthunder (03/25/14 06:05 PM)
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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I'd wait for someone more experienced to confirm but I don't see why not. I'd rinse it really well to remove any salt buildup first.
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