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 Hime
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Registered: 02/16/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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 Flower Stretch quest 
#698275 - 12/10/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey all, I've got 4 girl scout cookie clones all about the same size here. they are in a 2 x 2 ft area... I'm thinking it may be about time to flower them if they are going to widen much more during flower.
I have a 250w hps coming in so I can handle a little height to the plants now I think but still I'm thinking I may run out of space during flower, if I don't begin to flower soonish... what do you guys think?
 
thx for any input 
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy 
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 Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#698280 - 12/10/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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They will grow 2-3 time in height when flowering. Unless you train them a bunch more they shouldn't really get wider .
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Hime
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sexy, thanks buddy  you guys are awesome
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#699794 - 12/17/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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thinking it is time to flower after seeing this chart showing 16 inches being the furthest still effective range for a 250w. Thinking about tying them down the best I can now and then starting flower. Do you remove lowest concealed nodes before flower?
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mystkspiral
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#699797 - 12/17/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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thats what i shoudlve done, took a lot of advice from local growers to lollipop 2 weeks into flowering after initial stretch, so you can see what needs to be trimmed off easier.
but now i wish i trimmed the last week of veg, just so during flower my plants dont use energy in trying to recover from the lollipop.
i would say to trim now before flower, thats just my opinion, wish i did with my current grow... will for my next!
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#699799 - 12/17/13 08:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You better flower now, they'll stretch 2-3 times their current size man.
You could do it now, or later, or not at all.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Hime
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thanks for the replies guys... whew ya no kidding I pushed far in this little space.. flowering asap, tied, dark now, lights coming on in the morning. They have very little room to widen.
Its hard for me to remove the nodes or leaves... need to read more before I get into pruning much or noding. Gotta look that term up too "lollipopping"... your plants are looking gorgeous though  That was my thought on it too but I guess since I need to flower asap I will wait on it, maybe the lower nodes will help slow these beasts down.
just read a bit about pinching the stems during veg or up to the first four weeks of flowing. I guess the stems should make a pop sound if you've done it right? It's suppose to slow the stretch resulting in a lower plant in the long run.
Does anyone do this? Might give it a try
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
Edited by Hime (12/17/13 11:32 PM)
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#699889 - 12/18/13 12:19 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Lollipopping isn't a common term. He is just referring to trimming lower buds basically. Ignore it. Let the lower buds grow, all the larfy buds that don't get good light go great in hash bags or butter. Let them grow.
The stretching has nothing to do with them getting wider, they are going to get taller dude.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Hime
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ok cool I'll let them be this go around.
I thought I remembered my last couple grows gaining some width in the fan leaves but I could be mistaken about when vegging ended and flowering began.
I may have picked the perfect time to begin flowering then.. even if they gained a little fan leaf size I should still be good space wise.
This 250w HPS is definitely working well... beautiful red glow going on now
I inspected the 250w MH bulb after removing and on the center incased bulb there is a darkish/tanish stain covering half of it. I wonder if that's normal.. looks like some liquid or something squirted and then painted half the middle bulb. I'll put a pic up in a little bit.
thx again for everything
thinking about going ahead and pinching some of the more mature outer shoots hopefully allowing the middle shoots to catch up. Ever use this method? Is it overly stressful?
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
Edited by Hime (12/18/13 12:19 PM)
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#700880 - 12/20/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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having trouble finding distilled water anywhere around here... my ph meter says to dip it in distilled then suck it with a filter paper before and after using. I wonder if RO water would work the same?
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#700970 - 12/21/13 11:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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company responded, its ok to use
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#701075 - 12/21/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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thought I read somewhere on this site recently that PH up may kill microbes? Am I mistaken? not able to find it again
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#701514 - 12/22/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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over n out :p
thought about it a bit more... I guess getting over 11+ ph is coasting into bleach status, so adding ph up to a microbe rich solution might kill off some microbes as it dilutes into the bigger pool... I'm guessing once the ph begins to even out within the main mixture it wouldn't be as harmful?
made a batch of stronger then usual nutrient mix that phed at 4.8... decided to make a ph 11 water to dilute with. Guessing it would be less harmful then the straight ph up into the mixture.
added under half a gallon of ph 11 water to little over 1 1/2 gallon tub of 4.8 nutrient mix.. now up to 5.4 ph... tempted to water in as it is now so I don't kill any more of my herd... soil ph is 6.7, with a hefty amount of dolomite lime... probably will just bring it up to 6 instead.
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
Edited by Hime (12/22/13 04:58 PM)
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#701519 - 12/22/13 05:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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here's that stained bulb too, wasn't like that prior to plugging into the ballast
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#701541 - 12/22/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Discoloration is normal after it being fired up for the first time.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Hime
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sweet, thx brotha
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#702294 - 12/26/13 03:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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are these looking well fed? the flash makes them appear a bit lighter then the naked eye sees, the darker colored pics are more realistic
gave them a little bit more
my water ph is all over the place these last few days... thinking it must be due to the small amount of jobes 2-8 tomato and vegetable dry feed that I soaked in this batch of fertilizer.. it contains a ton of microbes but may be unstable. mixed up a batch ended up being 4.9 then added ph 11 water, went to 5.4, couple days after that 7.1... fed the 2 above plants with 7.1, a few more days pass, ph now 8.2... added two 1/4 tsp of ph down to 1 1/2 gallons of 8.2 water.. ph dropped to 7.5... shaking well in between each, added 2 more 1/4 tsp ph down... went to 7.1 shook up and waited. Added another 2 1/4 tsp of ph down, shook vigorously and waited. phed at 7.1 still, added another 1/4 tsp of ph down... shook and waited. Still 7.1... doesn't make much sense to me unless the jobes chunks were interacting with the mixture as I shook each time, releasing and possibly raising the ph. Went ahead and watered with 7.1... will see what happens
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
Edited by Hime (12/26/13 10:22 PM)
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#702483 - 12/27/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I believe something may have been wrongly phed or the 2-8 jobes fertilizer is causing a drift
after feeding I noticed they did become darker but still a light green color. I decided to water until I had some decent run off.. I watered with 6.0 ph, first quart of phed water comes out 7.8(thinking my soil must be around 8.2 then?), second quart 7.8, third 7.7-7.8. I do have a tablespoon of 2-8 jobes mixed in with each pot... maybe that's causing the ph to sit high... cant really say for sure.
Thinking of going full flush mode and running a gallon or two more of 6.0... I would go lower but im afraid of causing an abrupt change. Today I may see what four more quarts of 6.0 does to the run off. Then tomorrow maybe drop it down to 5.5 and add another gallon to see.
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
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phychotron
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#702706 - 12/27/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It sounds like your adding a lot of pH adjustment and other stuff so that its impossible to tell whats causing it. I couldn't even read all that stuff about what you did. Make a spread sheet that includes columns for the date and all the additives, ph up/down, gallons of water, ppm and pH (prior to watering) and pH of the runoff. And any other relevant data to keep track of.
Keep a column for comments, its the most important one or you'll forget everything. Your memory needs something to stick to, something as simple as 'moved the plants' can help out a lot.
Eventually you will collect enough data to make a chart and it will be easier to read, just by glancing at it you'll be able to establish trends. Google Drive offers a free spreadsheet program that you can use and share with people. Its not as functional as the computer version but gets the job done for the most part.
The spreadsheet I put together has all my nutrients listed on another sheet with cost, so as I log the nutrients that I mix up it also calculates the concentration and cost of everything, including % of costs for each product. I also added an electricity sheet and have it calculate how much electricity costs, just enter the date flower starts and stops. After harvest I just have to put in the total amount of bud, nutrients are down to $2.43 per ounce, total cost per ounce is $6.17. If I put in the weight for the individual plants and select a pot size it will tell me how many ounces per gallon of medium. This last grow ranged from 1-2.3, but an overall average of 1.4 oz/gal
This last harvest I added some efficiency calculations--grams per watt (light, actual power draw) and grams per kilowatt hour (total power consumption, including fans). The stuff is not fully harvested but Ive got it estimated it at .83 g/watt and .6g/kw-h. Basically there is a lot you can do with a spreadsheet and the numbers are all calculated on the spot so as soon as you enter the data you have the results instantly.
Generally I don't even use pH up, just add more water and dilute the nutrients (they usually lower pH) if its accidentally too low after adjusting it. If they need more nutrients I'll add some, but its usually not so much of a difference that its worth it.
Try mixing some of that jobes into water and see how the pH responds, up or down. You can do that with all your additives, but most things either drop pH or do nothing and few things raise it--Silica being one of them.
Look into cal/mg as a way to stabilize the pH. Also check out adding lime to your soil to help buffer the pH.
Your plants don't look bad. The faded green is probably from the pH being off.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
 Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: phychotron]
#702725 - 12/27/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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beautiful response man, Ty. Gonna have to check out that spreadsheet sounds awesome
I thought about trying that with the jobes, thank you for reminding me.
It could be something buffered in the kellogs too, ya hard to say with all the shit I did.. thinking my ph meter was wrong somewhere a long the line... but I hadn't been testing run off until now.
After a couple gallon of ph 6.0 water I brought the run off down to about 7.5... tomorrow I'm going to see what a gallon more of 5.5 water does.
 
they are gonna be pretty hungry by the time there is room in the soil for nute absorption.. I wonder if it would be wise to, after flushing the soil to 7, to try squeezing some in anyway.
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#702902 - 12/28/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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yep, tested the jobes in a glass of water and it does raise the ph... by quite a bit too. It takes a long time for it to dissolve also, soaking in a fertilizer mixture bubbling for a week and they are still pretty whole.... so shaking it breaks the slow release down and alkalizes my mix. Plus the tablespoon in each container slowly breaking down and raising ph. I think I may need to filter the chunks out of my fertilizer before testing ph and watering.
Been flushing with 3.6 water and the run off is still 7.3... its weird, my water tests 8.2 out of the tap... each 1/4 tsp of phosphoric acid is suppose to lower by .5... 5 tsps brings my tap water to 3.6, the first couple of 1/4 tsp's of ph down lowers about .5 and then from there it starts making huge jumps per 1/4 tsp.
one of my containers even showed a .1 higher after watering with 3.6ph water.
haven't done a full flush yet due to lack of dechloronated water.. it has slowly been lowering so I guess I will keep going with the same 3.6 ph water until I can get below 7... hopefully it doesn't surprise me with a large jump down.. seeming very unpredictable
 
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
Edited by Hime (12/28/13 04:28 PM)
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phychotron
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#702903 - 12/28/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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pH is a logarithmic scale, so for anyone to claim it will work straight up like that is full of shit.
It also has a lot to do with how much is in the water, cal/mg acts as a buffer and prevents the pH adjustment from working, it will seem like its stable for awhile, but if you keep adding pH adjust then BAM the buffer runs out and the pH is free to swing up or down like the buffer is not there.
get rid of that jobes crap and stop adjusting the water so low. Go down to maybe 5 and flush with more water rather than watering at a low pH.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: phychotron]
#702904 - 12/28/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Try letting the tap water sit for a day or two in an open container and see if the pH goes down by itself.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: phychotron]
#702915 - 12/28/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ty for the response.. so the cal mag in the water acts as a buffer, I wonder if at a certain amount of ph down it causes it to dissolve and then throws the ph way down like that? It's weird too because 5 quarter tsps brings me down to 3.6 but a 6th quarter tsp didn't bring it down past 3.6 at all.
I've got a good amount of dolomite lime in my soil.. not sure how long it will stay in with the flushing I've been doing. Wonder if I should top dress at some point... I've got 1 tbsp. per gallon currently, plus whatever is in Kelloggs patio plus.
roger that, I think i'll replace it with something ph balanced like Dr earth... im mainly using it because it has billions of microbes. I might try powderizing and just adding very small amounts to my mixture, that way it dissolves instantly and I can adjust without threat of it swinging.
I let my water sit but it still stays at 8-8.2.. when I first got my ph meter it tested 7.8, now up to 8.2. may be time to calibrate.
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
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phychotron
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#702921 - 12/28/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The pH adjustment will only get you so low then stop working. If it did keep going it would be able to create an acid so strong it would burn through flesh. The pH calibration powder doesn't need to be mixed with an exact amount of water because they give you enough to drop it down the the baseline and then a bit extra. I think its borax that they use to get 4.01.
Different brands of pH adjust act differently. Some like Advanced nutrients works by the drop (to the point it can be hard to get spot on) and others takes loads of the stuff, like Gen Hydro. Heres a small graph I made that kind of represents the difference. They either use a different chemical or a different concentration.
Get rid of that crap all together--Simplify. If you cut that you and feed with regularly adjusted pH and better nutrients you should be ok, but if you keep adding a bunch of crap your bound to run into problems. Are you letting the soil dry out or are you so concerned with pH that you keep watering? Feed normally and see if the problem corrects itself.
That lime is what is keeping your pH from going down, your fighting the buffer capacity of it. Eventually the buffer will run out and then the pH will be free to fluctuate rapidly again, you'll need to watch out for when that happens.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: phychotron]
#702933 - 12/28/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank ya again for a great reply
I've been flushing the last 2 days(not a full flush yet) since I noticed they weren't looking well... I added maybe less then a teaspoon to the water of that jobes.. odd that it is having such a huge effect... must be some strong buffer in there for tomatoes.. ya guess it would be best to cut it out.
So weird... my run off after watering with 3.6 water comes out 7.3-7.6, then I allowed that water to sit in a plastic tub for a few hours, came back and tested it and it has risen to 8.3
I guess I'll recalibrate tomorrow and put another quart in each of 5ph then see what the run off is
that makes sense, it could be that my ph meter is showing .4 higher then what is actual and the soil is now about where dolomite lime would keep it... not sure why the run off rose to 8.3 after sitting though.
do you know how long dolomite lime keep the soil buffered? should I expect it to run out before the end of the grow? I guess so since you said ill need to watch for it... maybe time to top sow a little then
thanks again for everything bery nice of ya
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
Edited by Hime (12/28/13 07:24 PM)
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phychotron
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#702937 - 12/28/13 08:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ive never used it so I cant say for sure, but if you keep running stuff through it it will happen sooner. Its usually good for a few months, but running pH 3.6 water can't be good for it. In theory when the buffer runs out the pH will be able to drop much lower much faster.
what kind of cheap ass meter are you running?
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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Hime
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: phychotron]
#703107 - 12/29/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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10 dollar one from ebay hehe
I'm pretty sure it must be off by .4 or .5 now... yea that wasn't a very good decision, flushing with 3.6 water... can tell the day after they look a little sour. Went ahead and flushed a bit more with 6.1 water to get that acid out.. it looked like it refreshed them a bit... time will tell.
Testing this jobes in another glass of water its showing that it is adjustable and seems stable, will need more time to see as it dissolves.
I think what happened was my last fertilizer mix phed wrong and then I ended up watering with 8.2 + food. Probably would have been fine after the first bit of flushing brought it down to 7.5 - 7.6... was probably on the money there.
I split 2 gallons of 3.6 with 4 plants(not again, referring to before).. waited much of the day ran 1 quart of 6.1 through last night because it was obvious that 3.6 wasn't sitting right(odd bending of the tips, slight purpling on some of the leaf stems, slightly lighter color) Then this morning I flushed 5 gallons between 4 plants... hopefully that was enough to neutralize. Thinking about putting another couple gallons between them just in case.
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
Edited by Hime (12/29/13 01:30 PM)
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phychotron
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: Hime]
#703192 - 12/29/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Give you roots some time to dry out. At least a few days
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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Hime
Stranger
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Re: Flower Stretch quest [Re: phychotron]
#703214 - 12/29/13 09:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Will do, big learning lesson here, thanks for everything man
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Livin, learnin, takin it easy
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