Home | Community | Message Board


Royal Queen Seeds Cannabis Seeds
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Growery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisibledrawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: GreenHorns]
    #657948 - 02/07/13 04:39 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

amazing


--------------------
King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: drawde]
    #657971 - 02/07/13 09:50 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

drawde said:
What really gets me here spencer is your attitude. This is a meta-analysis of 458 people studied in the 70s. Some glorious victory. :rolleyes:




You know drawde I could say the same about you. You're in here trying every single angle to diminish this thread and any hope of productive discussion. What's your beef jo?


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: TomCollins]
    #657972 - 02/07/13 09:58 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

drawde said:
What really gets me here spencer is your attitude. This is a meta-analysis of 458 people studied in the 70s. Some glorious victory. :rolleyes:




and another thing...
Data on 458 people in a heart study cohort that has been kept hidden for 30 years, by which definitively causing harm (this is really actually what the study proves,) is actually a huge fucking deal. I really feel like you can just read this in the study..?


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledrawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: TomCollins]
    #657974 - 02/07/13 10:20 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I'm sorry I have come across that way. I take this sort of approach to all scientific investigation. The truth matters more than anything here. Pick away at something enough and you will reveal either a rotten husk or a golden core, so to speak.


--------------------
King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: drawde]
    #657979 - 02/07/13 10:44 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Finally, to respond to:
Quote:

drawde said:
It doesn't prove anything about vegetarianism/veganism... its about specific types of oils, not sure how that could be any more clear. There are a substantial amount of other factors to take into consideration before drawing such a correlation, of which the study does not do.




It's a very common argument for proponents to cite and refer to USDA guidelines on saturated fat intake which also recommends replacing with the poly oils, as the health benefit of adopting a vegetarian diet. It's also very common for proponents to cite and refer to the China Study, which this data pretty much refutes actually.

So in this respect it is a victory. We can really say there is nothing healthy about avoiding animal products, and that saturated fat is among the healthiest fats to eat.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledrawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: TomCollins]
    #657980 - 02/07/13 11:08 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I have been around this discussion long enough to know that there are hundreds of investigations supporting both sides of the argument, and that to make broad conclusions based on one example is downright foolish. The jury is still out here. You're mixing up my questioning of the validity of this study with questioning the validity of your personal conclusions which are two entirely separate things.


--------------------
King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: drawde]
    #657987 - 02/08/13 02:46 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Both sides of what arguement? Whether fat and meat are good for you? I really don't know what evidence you're refering to.

Much of the literature on nutrition and chronic disease in the west over the last century is nonesense, because most of it is in the form of observational studies.  I'm sure you've heard of cases like Ancel Keys? 

The study is very valid because it's a longitudinal cohort. It is the ideal way to study the onset of disease and it's related exposures. It's sample is perfectly representative, statistically speaking. We should take the results of this study very seriously because of this.

There is an overwhelming amount of evidence showing that 1. Meat is healthy to eat compared to not eating it. 2. Saturated fat is also healthy to eat compared to Polyunsaturated substitutes. 3. Some types of saturated fat are very good for you, and can improve your cardiovascular health in a matter of weeks.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: TomCollins]
    #657990 - 02/08/13 04:43 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Look drawde, I think this is going slightly in the wrong direction.

The key point to remember is that it does not matter which argument has the most number of studies backing it.

What matters is the logical validity of the conclusions that are made in the study, which relates to how the study is modeled. It also matters whether the results could be explained by chance variation alone.

This particular set of data, from this particular study is very difficult to disprove because of the logical design of the experiment, and the statistical criteria that it meets.

What this study shows is that there is a logical relationship between two events, and that this relationship cannot be explained by chance alone.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedAshes

Registered: 07/04/11
Posts: 421
Last seen: 9 years, 25 days
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! *DELETED* [Re: TomCollins]
    #658063 - 02/08/13 04:12 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by RedAshes

Reason for deletion: delete


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: RedAshes]
    #658081 - 02/08/13 07:21 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Like I said before
Quote:

Here we go on this stupid argument again on which diet is the best I see it coming.




The subject is legit but once again it has turned into a argument. In fact now you're arguing about the proper way to argue about the subject.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHawksresurrection
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: Magash]
    #658084 - 02/08/13 07:24 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

:loldongs:


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: Magash]
    #658120 - 02/08/13 11:57 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Lol whut? Where?!


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDorian Gray
▐═██████═───

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 152
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: TomCollins]
    #658152 - 02/09/13 11:00 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I like tacos, okay?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGreenHorns
boulevardier
Male


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 1,195
Loc: funkytown Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: Dorian Gray]
    #658156 - 02/09/13 11:22 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I bet I can like tacos way better than you can.


--------------------
wiggy wham wham wazzle

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offline81renaissance
Coachella '13 KKOTY
Male


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,182
Loc: State of Mind Flag
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: GreenHorns]
    #658164 - 02/09/13 11:47 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Design Evaluation of recovered data from the Sydney Diet Heart Study, a single blinded, parallel group, randomized controlled trial conducted in 1966-73; and an updated meta-analysis including these previously missing data.




So this is an evaluation of a study that was conducted in 1966-1973.

Quote:

Interventions Replacement of dietary saturated fats (from animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings) with omega 6 linoleic acid (from safflower oil and safflower oil polyunsaturated margarine). Controls received no specific dietary instruction or study foods. All non-dietary aspects were designed to be equivalent in both groups.




That used hydrogenated oils in a study during a time when the detrimental effects of hydrogenated oils were not widely known.

Hydrogenated oils and/or omega-6 fatty acids are now known to cause vasoconstriction by way of inflammation of the blood vessels.  We also know that beginning in the middle of the 20th century, production of processed foods containing significant amounts of hydrogenated oils and consequently significant amounts of omega 6 fatty acids.  Now, omega-6 is an essential nutrient (one that the human body does not produce on its own), BUT like with anything in the body, when consumed in excess, it causes serious health problems.  The subjects then, were receiving excessive quantities of a substance we now know to have deleterious effects at those levels.

This study just reinforces old news: hydrogenated oils are bad news.  It does not reveal anything about a vegan diet.


--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut


BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHawksresurrection
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: 81renaissance]
    #658187 - 02/09/13 01:44 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

81renaissance said:
Quote:

Design Evaluation of recovered data from the Sydney Diet Heart Study, a single blinded, parallel group, randomized controlled trial conducted in 1966-73; and an updated meta-analysis including these previously missing data.




So this is an evaluation of a study that was conducted in 1966-1973.

Quote:

Interventions Replacement of dietary saturated fats (from animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings) with omega 6 linoleic acid (from safflower oil and safflower oil polyunsaturated margarine). Controls received no specific dietary instruction or study foods. All non-dietary aspects were designed to be equivalent in both groups.




That used hydrogenated oils in a study during a time when the detrimental effects of hydrogenated oils were not widely known.

Hydrogenated oils and/or omega-6 fatty acids are now known to cause vasoconstriction by way of inflammation of the blood vessels.  We also know that beginning in the middle of the 20th century, production of processed foods containing significant amounts of hydrogenated oils and consequently significant amounts of omega 6 fatty acids.  Now, omega-6 is an essential nutrient (one that the human body does not produce on its own), BUT like with anything in the body, when consumed in excess, it causes serious health problems.  The subjects then, were receiving excessive quantities of a substance we now know to have deleterious effects at those levels.

This study just reinforces old news: hydrogenated oils are bad news.  It does not reveal anything about a vegan diet.






I knew someone else would realize this eventually....


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBen18
Drunk Derelict
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 3,189
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #658201 - 02/09/13 02:16 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I like Olive Oils

:grin:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHawksresurrection
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: Ben18]
    #658210 - 02/09/13 02:54 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

But olive oil is not hydrogenated.  It's just pressed out manually from it.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: 81renaissance]
    #658220 - 02/09/13 03:33 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

81renaissance said:
Quote:

Design Evaluation of recovered data from the Sydney Diet Heart Study, a single blinded, parallel group, randomized controlled trial conducted in 1966-73; and an updated meta-analysis including these previously missing data.




So this is an evaluation of a study that was conducted in 1966-1973.

Quote:

Interventions Replacement of dietary saturated fats (from animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings) with omega 6 linoleic acid (from safflower oil and safflower oil polyunsaturated margarine). Controls received no specific dietary instruction or study foods. All non-dietary aspects were designed to be equivalent in both groups.




That used hydrogenated oils in a study during a time when the detrimental effects of hydrogenated oils were not widely known.

Hydrogenated oils and/or omega-6 fatty acids are now known to cause vasoconstriction by way of inflammation of the blood vessels.  We also know that beginning in the middle of the 20th century, production of processed foods containing significant amounts of hydrogenated oils and consequently significant amounts of omega 6 fatty acids.  Now, omega-6 is an essential nutrient (one that the human body does not produce on its own), BUT like with anything in the body, when consumed in excess, it causes serious health problems.  The subjects then, were receiving excessive quantities of a substance we now know to have deleterious effects at those levels.

This study just reinforces old news: hydrogenated oils are bad news.  It does not reveal anything about a vegan diet.




Let me be clear:

I mean perhaps I have wrongly construed what I believe about the vegan diet, but I don't think the contents of my posts have in any way indicated that I think there is something to be said about the vegan diet from these results - instead, my intention was to slay down the archaic dogma of the era in which the data is from, that still lingers - particularly in the repertoire of those who appose the consumption of animal products.

Now, onto the contents of your contribution:

This is a revealing of data that has been hidden for 30 years.

First off those are not hydrogenated oils. Omega-6 fatty acids are not hydrogenated oils. It's a type of processing of the oil that makes it become a trans fat, it can be a plant based or animal based oil.

You say this is old news? We all know this? Then wtf is this Detective?
Livestrong - Alkaline DietLive Strong - Healthy FatsHelp Guide - Healthy Fats

I guess some people didn't get the fucking message eh? :kingcrankey:


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
Re: Another glorious victory against vegans! [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #658222 - 02/09/13 03:41 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Going Partly Vegan NobodyImportant 1,816 8 09/17/11 08:46 AM
by CosmicFool
* Burger King's new vegan burger -- a testosterone killer
( 1 2 3 4 all )
XUL 7,551 75 12/31/19 10:42 AM
by poor boy
* Vegans demand In N Out sell 'meatless burger' Deadkndys420 981 4 09/21/16 01:58 PM
by 8787sunshine
* I going to celebrate the small victory in Washington state! 8787sunshine 851 8 04/09/14 02:57 AM
by Mr Magenta
* big supreme court victory for cannadians dmtcorey 1,089 4 02/27/16 02:32 PM
by KaptKid
* Vegetarians / Vegans
( 1 2 all )
beatyou 6,238 26 06/20/08 01:14 PM
by THEBats
* So unhealthy... Slave of Cthulhu 2,424 15 04/14/11 09:36 PM
by alienscience
* Smoking weed
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Steve Buscemi 18,618 88 07/08/10 11:35 PM
by Kilroy

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: FurrowedBrow, Harry_Ba11sach, Magash, Data, Stoneth, Dr. Siekadellyk
4,864 topic views. 3 members, 386 guests and 429 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Cannabis Seeds UK
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 15 queries.