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OfflineMaestro
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Registered: 05/03/12
Posts: 737
Loc: Kiev, Ukraine
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: upgrade [Re: phychotron]
    #631095 - 07/09/12 09:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The reflector is ALL the "extra cooling".
Where did ownership vs renting come in? I don't rent my hid ._.

bulbs (the good ones) have a year warranty. The ballasts have 5 year warranty. Reflector is forever.

No extra energy is being whasted...you got 100g off a 130watt fixture. This is more then possible with hid's.

So yeah, unless you can POINT OUT THE EXTRA COSTS, I really can't comprehend how youre saving money.


You get more grams per dollar with hid. Nuff said


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I am Thread Killer.

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InvisiblephychotronM
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
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Re: upgrade [Re: Maestro]
    #631104 - 07/09/12 10:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

the extra costs, how much do you spend on bulbs per year? You said two harvests and then you swap them. if their only good for 4-5 months before the quality degrades then that's going to cost a lot over time. Is the year warranty on the good one's cover their light output or just against their failure?

the example your referring to is with the cheaper fixture on my very first grow with poorly vegged plants (using those CFL's I was talking about--there's $80 worth of junk laying around), please get over that fixture and it's performance. quality fixtures are in the 65-75% the wattage range to compare to HID.

your renting the electricity you use, if you pay less in electricity as a result you are SAVING money. that money covers the added cost of the LED investment over a period of time--ownership. You get to own your higher quality fixture and continue to save/earn money once it's paid for itself. Your right, you own your HID and it's dependency on continued costs. You can convert from renting/spending a product to owning one.

and if you can stop running the air conditioner should you needed one with HID then your saving there as well.

Heat from HID is emitted via photons. you can cool the bulb but the light will continue to produce heat on every surface it touches. LED is gentler on the plant with far less IR. giving you the option to add or remove IR to speed/slow maturity rate. people seem to agree lower IR and slightly longer flower times produce higher quality buds. but the quality of light source is another discussion on it's own :wink:

you water less and use less nutrients.

there is no price on the fire hazard, until your one of the few whose house burns down. Sure, the news is over rated, but shit does happen and especially in my area there is a bunch of houses over 100 yrs old that's a huge added risk factor.  I would say anything built before the 70's is at a much greater risk, mainly because of it's got older style wiring.

HID presents more potential for needing electrical rewiring. again, no cost if you don't need it, but you will know more about what your wiring is capable AFTER you buy your HID.

Want to upgrade to 220? might need a new ballast; LED plugs right in.

Whats that? the power went off for a minute, but now you gotta wait for the light to cool down to turn it back on? I get those in this area, no problem though, the LED kicks right back on.

There are more things you get out of it rather than the bud, you get simplicity, less work, less hassle and a better :wink: light.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein

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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Posts: 13,464
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Re: upgrade [Re: phychotron]
    #631118 - 07/09/12 11:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well let's get this outta the way right now.  I in NO way change my bulbs every 2 grows.  It's been 2 years and I'm still pulling 2 pounds per light. 


As far as the wiring goes.  If you're too stupid to run new wiring for you're HID's in a hundred year old house, which is what I'm in, then you should be growing.


I still wanna see a grow log from ya and see if you are actually pulling the same weight I am in the same size of an area.


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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl

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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: upgrade [Re: phychotron]
    #631121 - 07/09/12 11:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Heat from HID is emitted via photons. you can cool the bulb but the light will continue to produce heat on every surface it touches. LED is gentler on the plant with far less IR. giving you the option to add or remove IR to speed/slow maturity rate. people seem to agree lower IR and slightly longer flower times produce higher quality buds. but the quality of light source is another discussion on it's own :wink:

you water less and use less nutrients.



OK, time to hit the brakes for a minute here.
I've tested a few 100 of these LED panels.
The best units have a good bit of penetration and product just about as much heat.  Resulting in keeping the light about 6 to 10 inches off the tops of the plants.  Bleaching was always a factor when running intense LEDs.  A few models yielded very well for me, I'll give them that, but most suck ass.

I've got a 120 watt LED that I can yield equal to my 400 watt grows, I'm talking 300+ grams.  But it sits in a box on a shelf while I run 600 wattx.

LEDs will be the future, but it's not the present.

On the nute comment,  My finding were like this, 400 watt HID ec 1.2 to 1.5.
To match yields with the 120 LED ec was 1.75 to 2.0.
Had to water both 3 times a day, and omce at night.
Both done in 4 square feet.
Same air exchange rate.
Same temps.

I think I've rambled enough now.:lol:


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:getstoned:

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InvisiblephychotronM
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
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Re: upgrade [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #631126 - 07/09/12 11:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Once I've got things situated I will get a grow log going. as of right now I'm living in the living room, growing in the bedroom, and vegging in the flower tent. I would love to get everything in order, but right now it's a big cluster fuck. My disability keeps me laid out most of the day, it's only because the last few days I've been feeling awake that I've been bothering you guys.

Assuming I want to grow the highest yielding strain, what if I want to go with a lower yielding plant with a preferential flavor or medicinal effect? I'm not a dealer so max yield less of a concern than quality. I want to try some of that thc free high cbd bud from Israel.

As for the wiring, you cant always rewire your apartment. Mine was built in the 60's and does have problems when using a lot of juice.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein

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OfflinePilze
Funky Monk


Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 770
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: upgrade [Re: phychotron]
    #631150 - 07/10/12 07:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
I want to try some of that thc free high cbd bud from Israel.





i'm guessing you're underage and know nothing about marijuana plants if you want to grow weed that wont get you high and has no medical use. imagine getting busted growing THC free weed and then going to prison for that. smart idea dude, smart idea...

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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: upgrade [Re: Pilze] * 1
    #631163 - 07/10/12 09:07 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well i have my medical card, I can have up to 24 oz on me, thc or not. There is great interest in CBD for it's potential medicinal effects. I don't smoke just to get high and I have to smoke so much that I rarely can get to the point of being stoned. It would be great to reserve that high feeling for the evening when I don't have to function as much. Might not be for me, but I wont know it till I've tried it.

There is nothing wrong with being curious about trying something new, otherwise discoveries would never be made.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein

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OfflineMaestro
Strange
Registered: 05/03/12
Posts: 737
Loc: Kiev, Ukraine
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: upgrade [Re: phychotron]
    #631169 - 07/10/12 09:37 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Dude...SO WHAT ARE THE EXTRA COSTS??
PLEASE just answer straight forward

You said:
Bulbs
Cooling
Electricity
New ballast when upgrading

But:
Good bulbs dont need replacement for years. Even my 15$ one is rated for 12 months, I said 2 harvests, cause I asked around about it and read that it looses power after 5-6 months.

You need 0 extra cooling (once again).

Electricity costs make me laugh when put next to l.e.d initial costs. Yeah ill get my money back in 10 years ._. Except that in 10 years I'd be loosing money by using a obsolete prototype.

You DO need a new ballast for more l.e.d.'s. The ballast is inside the fixture but that doesnt matter.


P.s. Idk much stoners who have a clean house...check out my grow for example >.<


And the whole IR thing...maaaan B to tha S. It maybe makes a tiny difference in large grows, but thats not what were talking about brahh!  Which is why I used the "small" 300$ fixture you had as an example.


--------------------
I am Thread Killer.

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OfflineLacombe Grown
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Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 203
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: upgrade [Re: Maestro]
    #631172 - 07/10/12 09:54 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

LeD's dont have the light intensity. HID (high intensity). no light penetration compared to a 1k. meaning u have to keep them super close and still get small and airy buds specially under canopy. if i were you id buy a 600 lumatek dialawat or 1k. and have the best of both worlds. 250,400,600,750 1k. dial it in! love mine.

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OfflineLacombe Grown
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Re: upgrade [Re: Lacombe Grown]
    #631173 - 07/10/12 09:55 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well let's get this outta the way right now.  I in NO way change my bulbs every 2 grows.  It's been 2 years and I'm still pulling 2 pounds per light. 


thanks hawk saved me a few bucks!

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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: upgrade [Re: Lacombe Grown]
    #631201 - 07/10/12 12:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lacombe Grown said:
Well let's get this outta the way right now.  I in NO way change my bulbs every 2 grows.  It's been 2 years and I'm still pulling 2 pounds per light. 


thanks hawk saved me a few bucks!



I highly recommend a lums/par meter to test your bulbs out put.
I've only seen one bulb on the market hold it's lums after 4 months.


--------------------
:getstoned:

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OfflineLacombe Grown
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Re: upgrade [Re: Stoneth]
    #631202 - 07/10/12 12:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

youch. what bulb is that? and how much do the meters run? thanks.

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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Posts: 13,464
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Re: upgrade [Re: Lacombe Grown]
    #631203 - 07/10/12 12:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes they will lose lumens.....but I have not noticed a marked decrease in productivity.  I'm replacing mine after this grow.  But that's 5-6 harvests per bulb.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl

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OfflineLacombe Grown
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Re: upgrade [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #631204 - 07/10/12 12:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

not enough loss in prouduction to buy a bulb each grow or 2 huh? damn things arent cheap.

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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: upgrade [Re: Lacombe Grown]
    #631205 - 07/10/12 12:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

And I buy the 90 dollar hortilux.....so I try and stretch the life of em a bit.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl

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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: upgrade [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #631208 - 07/10/12 12:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lacombe Grown said:
youch. what bulb is that? and how much do the meters run? thanks.



Ultra sun super HPS, I've seen these last over a year.
Meters run about 20 to 100 bucks on ebay and in most hydro shops.

A lost of lums is a lost of penetration.
A lost of PAR means there is less light for the plants to use.
Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
And I buy the 90 dollar hortilux.....so I try and stretch the life of em a bit.



Your a lucky man.
M last hortilux 600 was no stronger than a 400 after 6 months.


--------------------
:getstoned:

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OfflineLacombe Grown
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Re: upgrade [Re: Stoneth]
    #631227 - 07/10/12 02:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup: 60$ bulb great info stoneth:stoned:

Edited by Lacombe Grown (07/10/12 02:21 PM)

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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: upgrade [Re: Lacombe Grown]
    #631269 - 07/10/12 04:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Not all LED's are created Equal. Penetration is derived from a few variables in LED, such as diodes, beam angle, spectrum, secondary optics, spacing/density, etc. To say LED has no penetration is too broad of a statement. For LED you need to take a fixture by fixture account of it's penetration. Each fixture uses a combination of the above variables, which is what determines if the unit works or not. 

some fixtures are still using 120º beam angles, which give you a wider footprint with much less penetration and cheaper for the manufacturer. Some of the quality fixtures are realizing that we don't care about overall footprint, we also want penetration. A narrow beam angle or secondary optics on the led focus' the light straight down and gives you penetration--you just need to be aware of this before you buy. 60-90º is about right.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein

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Offlinepunkrocker292004
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Registered: 08/05/10
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Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: upgrade [Re: phychotron]
    #631285 - 07/10/12 06:40 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

wow you led people gotta stop pushin yer religion on us hid people cant we just agree to disagree its like biodiesel and gasoline :highfive::thaaannks:


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on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero-tyler durden

MHRB

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OfflineTank333
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Re: upgrade [Re: punkrocker292004]
    #631300 - 07/10/12 09:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

punkrocker292004 said:
wow you led people gotta stop pushin yer religion on us hid people cant we just agree to disagree its like biodiesel and gasoline :highfive::thaaannks:




--------------------
My best run so far

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