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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries
    #590875 - 10/06/11 06:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/06/ap/business/main20116878.shtml

Quote:

Feds target Calif. pot dispensaries for closure

(AP)  SAN FRANCISCO — Federal prosecutors have launched a crackdown on pot dispensaries in California, warning the stores that they must shut down in 45 days or face criminal charges and confiscation of their property even if they are operating legally under the state's 15-year-old medical marijuana law.

In an escalation of the ongoing conflict between the U.S. government and the nation's burgeoning medical marijuana industry, at least 16 pot shops or their landlords received letters this week stating they are violating federal drug laws, even though medical marijuana is legal in California. The state's four U.S. attorneys were scheduled Friday to announce a broader coordinated crackdown.

Their offices refused Thursday to confirm the closure orders. The Associated Press obtained copies of the letters that a prosecutor sent to at least 12 San Diego dispensaries. They state that federal law "takes precedence over state law and applies regardless of the particular uses for which a dispensary is selling and distributing marijuana."

"Under United States law, a dispensary's operations involving sales and distribution of marijuana are illegal and subject to criminal prosecution and civil enforcement actions," according to the letters signed by U.S. Attorney Laura Duffy in San Diego. "Real and personal property involved in such operations are subject to seizure by and forfeiture to the United States ... regardless of the purported purpose of the dispensary."

The move comes a little more than two months after the Obama administration toughened its stand on medical marijuana. For two years before that, federal officials had indicated they would not move aggressively against dispensaries in compliance with laws in the 16 states where pot is legal for people with doctors' recommendations.

The Department of Justice issued a policy memo to federal prosecutors in late June stating that marijuana dispensaries and licensed growers in states with medical marijuana laws could face prosecution for violating federal drug and money-laundering laws. The effort to shutter California dispensaries appeared to be the most far-reaching effort so far to put that guidance into action.

"This really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The administration is simply making good on multiple threats issued since President Obama took office," said Kevin Sabet, a former adviser to the president's drug czar and a fellow at the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Substance Abuse Solutions. "The challenge is to balance the scarcity of law enforcement resources and the sanctity of this country's medication approval process. It seems like the administration is simply making good on multiple statements made previously to appropriately strike that balance."

Greg Anton, a lawyer who represents dispensary Marin Alliance for Medical Marijuana, said its landlord received an "extremely threatening" letter Wednesday invoking a federal law that imposes additional penalties for selling drugs within 1,000 feet of schools, parks and playgrounds.

The landlord was ordered to evict the 14-year-old pot club or risk imprisonment, plus forfeiture of the property and all the rent he has collected while the dispensary has been in business, Anton said.

Marin Alliance's founder "has been paying state and federal taxes for 14 years, and they have cashed all the checks," he said. "All I hear from Obama is whining about his budget, but he has money to do this which will actually reduce revenues."

Kris Hermes, a spokesman for the medical marijuana advocacy group Americans for Safe Access, said the warnings are part of what appears to be an attempt by the Obama administration to curb medical marijuana on multiple fronts and through multiple agencies. A series of dispensary raids in Montana, for example, involved agents from not only the FBI and U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, but the Internal Revenue Service and Environmental Protection Agency.

Going after property owners is not a new tactic though, Hermes said. Five years ago, the Department of Justice under President George W. Bush made similar threats to about 300 Los Angeles-area landlords who were renting space to medical marijuana outlets, some of whom were eventually evicted or closed their doors voluntarily, he said.

"It did have an impact. However, the federal government never acted on its threats, never prosecuted anybody, never even went to court to begin prosecutions," Hermes said. "By and large, they were empty threats, but they relied on them and the cost of postage to shut down as many facilities as they could without having to engage in criminal enforcement activity."

Besides the dozen dispensaries in San Diego and the one in Marin County, at least three shops in San Francisco already have received closure notices, said Dale Gieringer, director of the California chapter of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws.

The San Diego medical marijuana outlets put on notice were the same 12 that city officials sued last month for operating illegally, after activists there threatened to force an election on a zoning plan adopted to regulate the city's fast-growing medical marijuana industry, City Attorney Jan Goldsmith said. A judge on Wednesday ordered nine of the targeted shops to close, while the other three shut down voluntarily, Goldsmith said.

Duffy, the U.S. attorney for far Southern California, planned to issue warning letters to property owners and all of the 180 or so dispensaries that have proliferated in San Diego in the absence of compromise regulations, according to Goldsmith.

"The real power is with the federal government," he said. "They have the asset forfeiture, and that means either the federal government will own a lot of property or these landlords will evict a lot of dispensaries."





It's being talked about every where else I turn.  I might as well bring it up here for discussion.  Or just to make anyone else aware of this.  I was at a hydro store today and learned that the dispensaries up here are really preparing for this.  This press conference tomorrow should be interesting and deplorable. 


--------------------





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OfflineRasJeph
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #590880 - 10/06/11 06:39 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
Of course it's happening inside your head.
Why should that mean it isn't real?

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Invisiblestill beLIEve
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: RasJeph]
    #590881 - 10/06/11 06:43 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i read the first half then got bored and skimmed

shit makes me sick. don't sit right with me at all.


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niteowl said:
See, that term pedo gets thrown around a lot.
Is a 16 year old guy having sex w/a 16 year old girl a pedophile?
If not, then how is a 30 year old considered a pedophile for doing the same thing?
I think y'all need to look up the definition for pedophile.

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InvisibleiwasaClown
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: RasJeph]
    #590883 - 10/06/11 06:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RasJeph said:




Seriously.
What a disappointment.:frown:


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"...And this I believe: that the free, exploring mind of the individual human is the most valuable thing in the world. And this I would fight for: the freedom of the mind to take any direction it wishes, undirected. And this I must fight against: any idea, religion, or government which limits or destroys the individual."

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Offlineiam23
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: iwasaClown]
    #590888 - 10/06/11 07:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The same thing happened here, there is no doubt it will go nationwide.Oh well, not a great loss, IMO most were way over priced any way. Wondering what will happen in Colorado, from what Ive seen on the news the state invested quite a bit of manpower to inspect grows and dispensaries, if they close them down,some state employees jobs will be lost.

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OfflineSteve Buscemi

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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: iam23]
    #590893 - 10/06/11 08:58 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Election season.

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Offlineiam23
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: Steve Buscemi]
    #590921 - 10/06/11 11:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Marijuana has always been a political issue. Theres 90,000 MM cardholders in my state. At over 100 dollars per registration, it keeps some state workers employed. Wondering if it might be a break-even kinda thing, wherein the state doesnt profit that much.

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Invisiblem00nshine
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #590923 - 10/06/11 11:27 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It's a shame how federal law can override a local, state law.

This is fucked; the people want medical marijuana. :rabble:

This kind of shit makes me think that the government is seriously profiting from
MJ being illegal... but, how? Through arrests? Through dirty business with cartels?
Reptilians? :ancientaliens:?

We live in fucking bizzaro world!


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Offlineiam23
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: m00nshine]
    #590965 - 10/07/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Actually, , its the other way around, it was voted in. The consensus is that they want people to closet their use. Its probably a fair trade, considering the benefits of legal use. Its just my opinion, no need to flame. MM is here to stay, until complete legalization, that is.

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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: RasJeph]
    #590969 - 10/07/11 09:44 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RasJeph said:





Well, what's obama going to say about it I wonder?

I'm preparing to rage pretty hardcore and getting me some protest thangs.


--------------------
"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #590971 - 10/07/11 09:47 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

From FSR's "fuck the MPAA" I say. "Back the fuck off or you're fuckin dead, yellin 1337 on a motherfuckin fed "... "fuck what you heard, it's all a scam, if they at your door burn em in a van."


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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

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Offlineiam23
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #590977 - 10/07/11 10:07 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Personally, I would rather closet my use and remain legal. Closing dispensaries doesnt affect card holders that much where I am. They didnt start popping up until a couple years after the law was passed and werent open very long. Most people grow their own or have a caregiver. The only people it affected were the owners of the dispensaries, at least here, anyway.

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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: iam23]
    #591058 - 10/07/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~

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OfflineDungenessDank
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #591088 - 10/07/11 07:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Ron Paul 2012 end Federal prohibition. Abolish the DEA.

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OfflineRasJeph
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: DungenessDank]
    #591089 - 10/07/11 07:56 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Hes starting to look better and better by the day to be honest.

I still dislike his pro-life stance, but if I have to sacrifice one belief to support many others I guess thats how its gotta be.


--------------------
Of course it's happening inside your head.
Why should that mean it isn't real?

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OfflineDungenessDank
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: RasJeph]
    #591090 - 10/07/11 08:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Some bitch once said "Ron Paul supporters are white males who care more about their right to smoke pot than a woman's right to her own body", which was a huge fucking fallacy. I don't know if anyone wants to be bored by the libertarian stance on abortion, but essentially there is none. It is an individual choice.

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Invisiblenannybooboo
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #591354 - 10/09/11 07:53 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

nnnnooooooooooooooooo...

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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: DungenessDank]
    #591448 - 10/10/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DungenessDank said:
Some bitch once said "Ron Paul supporters are white males who care more about their right to smoke pot than a woman's right to her own body", which was a huge fucking fallacy. I don't know if anyone wants to be bored by the libertarian stance on abortion, but essentially there is none. It is an individual choice.




See, even I (who dislikes his pro-life stance) will understand that's a bullshit statement. If Ron Paul ever actually passed a Pro-life bill he's get bitch slapped by all his supporters, unless he included a state an opt-out ability. I mainly just dislike that he IS pro-life among other things. :shrug: But you already know I like him in congress, so I don't need to talk more.

I doubt he win's the nomination. I'll consider him if he makes it though, but until then I'm sticking with "anyone that's not republican." :lol:


--------------------
"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

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OfflineDungenessDank
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #591449 - 10/10/11 01:51 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:cheers:

I'm confident he is going all the way, otherwise I'd have no reason to care about presidential politics. I vote for the guy who wants to kill the least amount of innocent people.

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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: DungenessDank]
    #591451 - 10/10/11 02:07 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What we need are more clandestine operations, snatchin' up peeps we don't like dawg. (As terrifying as it sounds, even to me, it's much MUCH better than a war). Whether you agree things like 9/11 were faked or not it's not hard to see that extended wars turn the people that disagree with them into doom-sayers who will believe anything that supports there cause. (Read: Youtube conspiracy theorists recording random things and ranting about how it's the NWO doing shit).

Not to bash conspiracy theorists, just when I see a video recording what is a completely typical con-trail trying to tell me it must be dangerous I have an urge to go drop kick small children. And people that think HAARP is out to control the weather, but this second one I get pissed much less about than the con-trail's must all be chem-trails videos.





BUT BACK ON TOPIC! :lol:

I am still confident that something will happen, but I think protesting is really going to be the best way to make sure our voices are heard about this. I borderline like that candidate that bashed the DEA/DA for these actions, it's like today's politicians can't google search/read the erowid article over marijuana. When they tell me WHY it's ok for it to be banned, and for alcohol and tobacco to be allowed to be recreational drugs I'll be able to tell them why they are stupid. :shrug:


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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

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OfflineDungenessDank
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #591454 - 10/10/11 02:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Meh, it's not even part of the discourse anymore. 99% of politicians deal in numbers, not in theory.

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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: DungenessDank]
    #591457 - 10/10/11 02:21 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

THEN WHY DON'T THEY SEE THE NUMBERS FROM TAXES!

Like, maybe it's just from be being such an analytical person. But to me the numbers say "why the fuck is it illegal."


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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

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OfflineInfowars.com
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #591835 - 10/12/11 06:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/06/ap/business/main20116878.shtml

Quote:

Feds target Calif. pot dispensaries for closure

(AP)  SAN FRANCISCO — Federal prosecutors have launched a crackdown on pot dispensaries in California, warning the stores that they must shut down in 45 days or face criminal charges and confiscation of their property even if they are operating legally under the state's 15-year-old medical marijuana law.

In an escalation of the ongoing conflict between the U.S. government and the nation's burgeoning medical marijuana industry, at least 16 pot shops or their landlords received letters this week stating they are violating federal drug laws, even though medical marijuana is legal in California. The state's four U.S. attorneys were scheduled Friday to announce a broader coordinated crackdown.

Their offices refused Thursday to confirm the closure orders. The Associated Press obtained copies of the letters that a prosecutor sent to at least 12 San Diego dispensaries. They state that federal law "takes precedence over state law and applies regardless of the particular uses for which a dispensary is selling and distributing marijuana."

"Under United States law, a dispensary's operations involving sales and distribution of marijuana are illegal and subject to criminal prosecution and civil enforcement actions," according to the letters signed by U.S. Attorney Laura Duffy in San Diego. "Real and personal property involved in such operations are subject to seizure by and forfeiture to the United States ... regardless of the purported purpose of the dispensary."

The move comes a little more than two months after the Obama administration toughened its stand on medical marijuana. For two years before that, federal officials had indicated they would not move aggressively against dispensaries in compliance with laws in the 16 states where pot is legal for people with doctors' recommendations.

The Department of Justice issued a policy memo to federal prosecutors in late June stating that marijuana dispensaries and licensed growers in states with medical marijuana laws could face prosecution for violating federal drug and money-laundering laws. The effort to shutter California dispensaries appeared to be the most far-reaching effort so far to put that guidance into action.

"This really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The administration is simply making good on multiple threats issued since President Obama took office," said Kevin Sabet, a former adviser to the president's drug czar and a fellow at the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Substance Abuse Solutions. "The challenge is to balance the scarcity of law enforcement resources and the sanctity of this country's medication approval process. It seems like the administration is simply making good on multiple statements made previously to appropriately strike that balance."

Greg Anton, a lawyer who represents dispensary Marin Alliance for Medical Marijuana, said its landlord received an "extremely threatening" letter Wednesday invoking a federal law that imposes additional penalties for selling drugs within 1,000 feet of schools, parks and playgrounds.

The landlord was ordered to evict the 14-year-old pot club or risk imprisonment, plus forfeiture of the property and all the rent he has collected while the dispensary has been in business, Anton said.

Marin Alliance's founder "has been paying state and federal taxes for 14 years, and they have cashed all the checks," he said. "All I hear from Obama is whining about his budget, but he has money to do this which will actually reduce revenues."

Kris Hermes, a spokesman for the medical marijuana advocacy group Americans for Safe Access, said the warnings are part of what appears to be an attempt by the Obama administration to curb medical marijuana on multiple fronts and through multiple agencies. A series of dispensary raids in Montana, for example, involved agents from not only the FBI and U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, but the Internal Revenue Service and Environmental Protection Agency.

Going after property owners is not a new tactic though, Hermes said. Five years ago, the Department of Justice under President George W. Bush made similar threats to about 300 Los Angeles-area landlords who were renting space to medical marijuana outlets, some of whom were eventually evicted or closed their doors voluntarily, he said.

"It did have an impact. However, the federal government never acted on its threats, never prosecuted anybody, never even went to court to begin prosecutions," Hermes said. "By and large, they were empty threats, but they relied on them and the cost of postage to shut down as many facilities as they could without having to engage in criminal enforcement activity."

Besides the dozen dispensaries in San Diego and the one in Marin County, at least three shops in San Francisco already have received closure notices, said Dale Gieringer, director of the California chapter of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws.

The San Diego medical marijuana outlets put on notice were the same 12 that city officials sued last month for operating illegally, after activists there threatened to force an election on a zoning plan adopted to regulate the city's fast-growing medical marijuana industry, City Attorney Jan Goldsmith said. A judge on Wednesday ordered nine of the targeted shops to close, while the other three shut down voluntarily, Goldsmith said.

Duffy, the U.S. attorney for far Southern California, planned to issue warning letters to property owners and all of the 180 or so dispensaries that have proliferated in San Diego in the absence of compromise regulations, according to Goldsmith.

"The real power is with the federal government," he said. "They have the asset forfeiture, and that means either the federal government will own a lot of property or these landlords will evict a lot of dispensaries."





It's being talked about every where else I turn.  I might as well bring it up here for discussion.  Or just to make anyone else aware of this.  I was at a hydro store today and learned that the dispensaries up here are really preparing for this.  This press conference tomorrow should be interesting and deplorable. 





brag more about your facism

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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: Infowars.com]
    #591887 - 10/12/11 08:02 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:lolwut:  :confused:


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
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~ Thomas Jefferson ~

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OfflineNobodyImportant
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #591937 - 10/13/11 01:09 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
:lolwut:  :confused:




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:bonghit:
Glass By: US Tubes, ZOB, Roor.de, Sheldon Black, Jerome Baker, Medicali, Kennaroo, Sand, Alex K, Local and Unknown Artists

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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: NobodyImportant]
    #591976 - 10/13/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

NobodyImportant said:
Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
:lolwut:  :confused:







That didn't even make sense. How does talking about an attorney prosecuting weed mean someone is fascist.

Man that guy just went full retard.



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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #591980 - 10/13/11 10:30 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

idk, he was banned for 100 days from another thread though.  He asked for it.  :shrug:


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~

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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #591981 - 10/13/11 10:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i went into a dispensary last week after those letters were sent out and the dispensary didn't have their Open sign turned on.  So I told the guy at the desk about it and his response was, "Fuck the feds!".  My buddy and me use weedmaps a lot to see whats on the menus of our favorite places.  Bud comes and goes in most places here.  It's difficult to get a steady supply of the same stuff month after month.  Anyway, we noticed that like half of the dispensaries around here have taken themselves off of weedmaps.  These dispensary owners are paranoid, for good reason.  it's fucking sad.


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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #591984 - 10/13/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I fucking agree, that one guy said most people want to just grow their own shit; but it isn't like they can't ALREADY DO THAT. All dispensaries are for is people that don't want to/want more than just their own crop (or people that sell to them). Personally I'm more anxious for it to go straight out legal, but that's a while off (which is a fucking shame as well).

It's an example of a vocal minority abusing a silent majority.


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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

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OfflineDungenessDank
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #591985 - 10/13/11 10:41 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

That is democracy in action my friend.

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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #591987 - 10/13/11 10:43 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
I fucking agree, that one guy said most people want to just grow their own shit; but it isn't like they can't ALREADY DO THAT. All dispensaries are for is people that don't want to/want more than just their own crop (or people that sell to them). Personally I'm more anxious for it to go straight out legal, but that's a while off (which is a fucking shame as well).

It's an example of a vocal minority abusing a silent majority.




actually, i just ran across this article on the shroomery.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2011/10/12/California-Could-Opt-Out-Controlled-Substances-Act-Ballot-Initiative


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OfflineDungenessDank
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #591989 - 10/13/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nullify and secede!

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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: DungenessDank]
    #591990 - 10/13/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I know. :sad:

Although part of it is from stoners individually not exactly giving a good case against it. I know way to many "Fuck da pooooooooolice" stoners, and by that i mean they don't give a fuck about politics at all. And still expect shit to get better (or are convinced there's going to be a revolution (literally, like civil war style) against the feds).

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
I fucking agree, that one guy said most people want to just grow their own shit; but it isn't like they can't ALREADY DO THAT. All dispensaries are for is people that don't want to/want more than just their own crop (or people that sell to them). Personally I'm more anxious for it to go straight out legal, but that's a while off (which is a fucking shame as well).

It's an example of a vocal minority abusing a silent majority.




actually, i just ran across this article on the shroomery.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2011/10/12/California-Could-Opt-Out-Controlled-Substances-Act-Ballot-Initiative




Thank you for the link, reading it now.

Quote:

DungenessDank said:
Nullify and secede!



You know, sometimes I just feel that the US is to big for a successful Federal Government. I'd hate to think of it honestly, but I've thought of it quiet a few times.


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OfflineDungenessDank
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #592137 - 10/14/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

330 Million people is much too big for an effective democracy.

Not that this is perfect, just from some guy on the web, but I just read it and thought it was worth sharing.

Quote:

I will submit to you that their ignorance is a rational ignorance (not reasonable, rational). Why should you educate yourself on these issues? What does that do for you? Again, you cast a tiebreaking ballot in a system that does not produce ties. To educate yourself on the issues in order to influence state politics would be irrational the same way an 80-year-old man hitting the gym because he wants to play in the NFL is irrational. Both have side-benefits, sure. You grow yourself as an individual. But democracy as a system depends on this irrationality in order to function properly.


This can perhaps work for a time, when the state is small and political platforms are correspondingly small, but the more diverse the state's powers/responsibilities and the longer the political platforms become, the more difficult it is for the citizenry to stay informed. Hence, there is a sort of irony here when we sit around criticizing others for their ignorance: how many people do you know who can even name all the departments of the federal government, let alone tell you the ins and outs of them?


Worse yet, the longer the political platforms become, the less able anyone is to vote for someone with whom they share significant commonality. When you buy food at the grocery store, you can pick the brand of burger you like, the brand of cheese, the brand of bun, and all your favorite condiments. If you don't like pickles, you don't have to buy them. You make all your food purchases a la carte. However, when you vote for a politician, you have to buy his entire political platform (and hope he even tries to deliver) whether you like it all or not. Hence, a problem of accountability that has nothing to do with ignorance. Everybody who doesn't like pickles can get burned, but they'll still have to vote for hamburgers again, because who likes hot dogs? So the politicians keep piling on more and more toppings, because that's what wins votes (or even saying one thing to the anti-picklers and another to the pro-ketchupers). Now we have a meal nobody wants to eat and a people who don't remember how to cook for themselves.



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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: DungenessDank]
    #592155 - 10/14/11 11:37 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Worse yet, the longer the political platforms become, the less able anyone is to vote for someone with whom they share significant commonality. When you buy food at the grocery store, you can pick the brand of burger you like, the brand of cheese, the brand of bun, and all your favorite condiments. If you don't like pickles, you don't have to buy them. You make all your food purchases a la carte. However, when you vote for a politician, you have to buy his entire political platform (and hope he even tries to deliver) whether you like it all or not. Hence, a problem of accountability that has nothing to do with ignorance. Everybody who doesn't like pickles can get burned, but they'll still have to vote for hamburgers again, because who likes hot dogs? So the politicians keep piling on more and more toppings, because that's what wins votes (or even saying one thing to the anti-picklers and another to the pro-ketchupers). Now we have a meal nobody wants to eat and a people who don't remember how to cook for themselves.





interesting analogy.


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Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
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Offlineiam23
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Re: US Attorney's go after CA Dispensaries [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #592388 - 10/16/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Its a catch 22. The states stand to create jobs and make a chunk of change, free-up, the drug courts, leo manpower, yet they want to appease the red-neck voters that drink like fishes and drive drunk. While at the same time making sure that people dont profit from growing. People have been closet smokers/growers for decades. Theres over 90,000 cardholders in my state, its doubtful the law will be repealed, and the cops are seemingly respectful concerning the rights of quiet card holders. People that are "out" about their use, protest and make a fuss about this or that are the ones that get picked on. Personally, I like the fact that as long as Im resposible with my use, I can procure it, possess it, and ingest it. At this point, Im making no complaints, sure it does cost a few bucks to see a Doctor, and pay for the card, but its always available, and its legal. That kind of Peace and liberty is priceless.

Edited by iam23 (10/16/11 11:21 AM)

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