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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/01/10
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critique my noobness *DELETED*
    #498766 - 11/17/10 03:06 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Pandor

Reason for deletion: plus plus to yo face


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InvisiblePandor

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Pandor]
    #498807 - 11/17/10 09:49 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I also need testing equipment for pH, PPM, EC, temperature, humidity, CO2, and light levels. How many different gadgets? Is there an all in one kit or gadget for this?

I know, I have soooooooo much to learn.

I'm spending a couple hours a day either here or reading the Cervantes book.

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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Pandor]
    #498808 - 11/17/10 10:03 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

A lot is gonna depend on how you want to grow. This is a SOG grow under 2-1000 watt lights each over a 4x4 space.



Or larger plants


--------------------
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:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

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Offlinejkell
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Pandor]
    #498809 - 11/17/10 10:06 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Ph tester, ph up/ph down, and a meter that read in parts per million for your nutrient solution o well and of course nutrients. Have you read alot about hempy grows? and if so read some more. Take a look at some other hempy grows on here too your bound to learn a few things. Those are all very important aspects to a successful grow as I came to learn out the hard way. A carbon filter isn't really necessary unless you plan on venting outside, or if anyone in your house would mind, but from the sounds of it they don't mind if your paying your piece of rent by growing.
As for the lights per room and how big and how many plants its really all up to you. How much do you want to spend on lights? How big of a yield do you want? How bill of an electric bill do you want? With many big lights comes heat, are you prepared to take care of that heat?

Stick around the growery and your bound to learn more than your brain can hold :thumbup:

o and impressive shroomies bro, but growing weed is much more fun IMO

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Offlinejkell
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: jkell]
    #498810 - 11/17/10 10:08 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Beat me to it magash, Listen to him pandor he has a wealth of knowledge

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InvisiblePandor

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #498811 - 11/17/10 10:27 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
A lot is gonna depend on how you want to grow. This is a SOG grow under 2-1000 watt lights each over a 4x4 space.



Or larger plants





I love your pictures.

I want to do big plants.

So is there any benefit to buying 2 1000 watt bulbs as opposed to one big light?

If I took the route of using 2 4x4 bulbs in 2 of the rooms, and then one light in the 3rd room for mothers and such, and the house is 1250 sq ft in a ghettoish neighborhood, will this cause too much heat, electricity use, smell? I don't care if the house reeks on the inside, just worried about smells from the outside.

Realistically, would 6 5 gallon hempy buckets fit under each light in the 2 main rooms? If yes, that's 12 plants per room. How much yield can I expect? (I know it varies on the strain, growing conditions, and my skill...just a general idea would help me. A gram per watt somewhat accurate?)

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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Pandor]
    #498839 - 11/17/10 01:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Have you done any research into what equipment you're going to buy?

1000w's are the highest watt bulb that is useful for indoor horticulture. The bigger ones burn far too hot. I feel like 1000watt bulbs are more appropriate for commercial ops or tall plants. You get 11% more light from 600w lights over 1000w lights and they also produce no where near as much heat.

Furthermore, there's no such thing as a 4x4' light. Some people use 400w's to cover a 4x4' space, some use 600w's to cover less than a 4x4' space or a 6x6' space, some people use 1000w's to cover a 8x4' space. It all depends on the shape of your reflector and how much light you want spread out over how many feet.

As for electricity, heat, and smell... Smell isn't related to your lights, if you have stinky strains you can stink up a house with a 10" plant in veg under CFLS or sitting in your window you should invest in odor control such as Ozone generator(s), carbon scrubber(s), gels/masks, etc. Heat will depend on your ventilation you should vent the volume of your room every minute or so, some people do it every 3 minutes for bigger rooms but I think ventilation is rather important and you should be venting close to once a minute. That is to say the full volume of the room should be replaced each minute with fresh air, the used air should be exhausted outside to reduce humidity, heat, and because it's depleted of the bulk of it's co2. For electricity use some people say 1kw per bedroom is safe usage of electricity I know people who throw up ~10kw ops in 1bedroom apartments run them for a year or two and then tear them down never losing sleep over their excessive energy bills. Energy companies aren't in the business of asking questions when electricity bills are too high, they also won't want to cooperate with police for the most part in raiding people. In BC they had some bi-law where you couldn't run more than 93 kilowatt hours a day without being a suspected grower or whatever it was, some people were busted like this and the energy companies fought for the rights of their customers and won, no longer needing to cooperate with police on such matters.

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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Pandor]
    #498843 - 11/17/10 01:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pandor said:
Quote:

Magash said:
A lot is gonna depend on how you want to grow. This is a SOG grow under 2-1000 watt lights each over a 4x4 space.



Or larger plants





I love your pictures.

I want to do big plants.

So is there any benefit to buying 2 1000 watt bulbs as opposed to one big light?

If I took the route of using 2 4x4 bulbs in 2 of the rooms, and then one light in the 3rd room for mothers and such, and the house is 1250 sq ft in a ghettoish neighborhood, will this cause too much heat, electricity use, smell? I don't care if the house reeks on the inside, just worried about smells from the outside.

Realistically, would 6 5 gallon hempy buckets fit under each light in the 2 main rooms? If yes, that's 12 plants per room. How much yield can I expect? (I know it varies on the strain, growing conditions, and my skill...just a general idea would help me. A gram per watt somewhat accurate?)




A gram per watt is very hopeful, and a very ambitious goal for a first time grower. I won't say good growers but efficient growers expect 2lbs per 1000w which is just under 1gpw, and maybe over a lb for 600w's. I see growers reach 1gpw far more often with 600w lights.

If you want to aim for the highest yields possible you should look into higher plant counts or training methods (SCROG, Topping, FIM, Supercropping, etc) There's a guide on here somewhere that is a overview of all these training techniques. I top/low stress train, and supercrop/bend as much as possible for larger plants. I think having plants that put on a lot of bud mass and fall over grown in a sea of green (high plant counts/meter squared) held up by a trellis is a common method of high yields.

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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #498846 - 11/17/10 01:56 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

maryanne3087 said:
Have you done any research into what equipment you're going to buy?

1000w's are the highest watt bulb that is useful for indoor horticulture. The bigger ones burn far too hot. I feel like 1000watt bulbs are more appropriate for commercial ops or tall plants. You get 11% more light from 600w lights over 1000w lights and they also produce no where near as much heat.

Furthermore, there's no such thing as a 4x4' light. Some people use 400w's to cover a 4x4' space, some use 600w's to cover less than a 4x4' space or a 6x6' space, some people use 1000w's to cover a 8x4' space. It all depends on the shape of your reflector and how much light you want spread out over how many feet.

As for electricity, heat, and smell... Smell isn't related to your lights, if you have stinky strains you can stink up a house with a 10" plant in veg under CFLS or sitting in your window you should invest in odor control such as Ozone generator(s), carbon scrubber(s), gels/masks, etc. Heat will depend on your ventilation you should vent the volume of your room every minute or so, some people do it every 3 minutes for bigger rooms but I think ventilation is rather important and you should be venting close to once a minute. That is to say the full volume of the room should be replaced each minute with fresh air, the used air should be exhausted outside to reduce humidity, heat, and because it's depleted of the bulk of it's co2. For electricity use some people say 1kw per bedroom is safe usage of electricity I know people who throw up ~10kw ops in 1bedroom apartments run them for a year or two and then tear them down never losing sleep over their excessive energy bills. Energy companies aren't in the business of asking questions when electricity bills are too high, they also won't want to cooperate with police for the most part in raiding people. In BC they had some bi-law where you couldn't run more than 93 kilowatt hours a day without being a suspected grower or whatever it was, some people were busted like this and the energy companies fought for the rights of their customers and won, no longer needing to cooperate with police on such matters.






Great info in this post.  I never worry about electricity costs.  As long as you pay your power bill you have nothing to worry about from that end.

Also it sounds as if you have a VERY long way to go before you start up in 3 bedrooms let alone 1.  I'm not saying it can't be done, but growing MJ is a lot more complicated than mushrooms.  A lot more can go wrong and you end up with very little yield.  You'd be better off starting with 1 room and growing from there.  3 will give you WAY too much to have to pay attention to for your first grow.


--------------------
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Offlinejkell
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #498847 - 11/17/10 02:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, agreed maryanne, Definetly look into some training methods.

And hawks great point, balancing ph and nutes right for a first grow is hard enough for me in a 4x4 grow area, couldn't imagine doing 3 rooms my first time around.

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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Pandor]
    #498859 - 11/17/10 02:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



This is my 1st SOG, two- 1000 watt lights.100 plants. Got 2 1/2 lb's.

I was happy with it.

Working on my next grow and a 2 x 2 flood and drain.

Its a labor of love.


--------------------
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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: jkell]
    #498879 - 11/17/10 03:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jkell said:
Yeah, agreed maryanne, Definetly look into some training methods.

And hawks great point, balancing ph and nutes right for a first grow is hard enough for me in a 4x4 grow area, couldn't imagine doing 3 rooms my first time around.




Hempy buckets are hand watered, so if your reservoir is stable, you just hand water and that's it. I know a lot of people who started growing and most of those who start off too big end up sizing down or they just lose their crop to some unforeseen bullshit. The guys who lose money growing are usually those who save up 15-20grand and start a huge op then don't see harvest. If this guy doesn't even know what wattage of lights exist let alone what he will use I don't see him starting up a 3 room, 6kw+ setup on his first attempt.

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OfflineGoombah
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #498921 - 11/17/10 06:42 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
You'd be better off starting with 1 room and growing from there.  3 will give you WAY too much to have to pay attention to for your first grow.




I agree, I learned much from growing two scraggly plants in a broom closet for a couple of months (like everything NOT to do - ha). I think we all get in a hurry when we decide to do a thing. I did a lot of research too and I still have tons of questions popping up along the way.

KaptKid, great picture by the way. 2 1/2Lbs? Woo-Hoo!

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Offlinejkell
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: KaptKid]
    #498926 - 11/17/10 06:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KaptKid said:


This is my 1st SOG, two- 1000 watt lights.100 plants. Got 2 1/2 lb's.

I was happy with it.

Working on my next grow and a 2 x 2 flood and drain.

Its a labor of love.




I creamed my pants when I read 2 1/2 pounds.

@Hawks Sorry man miscommunication, I meant just getting everything balanced in the rez hawks or was that just me the first time? :uhoh: but with practically all systems you get the rez right you're golden :thumbup:

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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/01/10
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: jkell]
    #498928 - 11/17/10 07:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

One think I am learning about right now and kinda stumped on is CO2 production. What will be the cheapest and noob friendly way to do this? Each method seems expensive and/or difficult. Is regulating CO2 levels as important as it seems? If so what do you recommend to a person trying to set up a 2 or 3 room grow house?

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Offlinejkell
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Pandor]
    #498933 - 11/17/10 07:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

If you have a consistent rate of air exchange between fresh Co2 laden air and the old used up air per a ventilation system, then it isn't super important, but the more Co2 you make available to those girls the better off they'll be. Co2 is extremly important in the photosynthesis process because the plant break the carbon off the Co2 and converts it to food, aka sugars and starches, and dispells the unwanted O2 which is wanted by US! I don't mind letting my plant grow in my room, it's a symbiotic relationship :grin:

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Offlinejkell
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: jkell]
    #498934 - 11/17/10 07:16 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

sorry, to answer your question more directly, Its more of a supplement and less of a neccessity

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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Pandor]
    #498936 - 11/17/10 07:21 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Constant fresh air is the way to go.  Make sure that your replacing the amount of total volume of air in the room at least once a minute.  Obviously using carbon sscrubbers. 

Most big growers are switching away from CO2, and just have the constant flow of fresh air.  This can achieve the same results. 




That being said. I use CO2.  Getting air into my grow space is a pain in the ass.  So I just supplement with co2 since I already had the equipment.  Now  If your going to go the CO2 route, you will need to do a little bit of homework on it.  you need to find out the size of the room you have, how many pounds of CO2 the CO2 producer you buy puts out per say 15min of burn time and start doing some math.  Or you could go the injection system route, no heat by-product from it which is fabulous. 

It really sounds like you need to start doing some more research to be able to pull something like this off.  i don't mean any offense by this.  But would rather see you succeed on a first small grow than fail on a 1st big grow.


--------------------
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-niteowl

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Offlinejkell
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #498938 - 11/17/10 07:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
But would rather see you succeed on a first small grow than fail on a 1st big grow.



QFT
This might be the best advice you get off this board.

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InvisiblePandor

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: jkell]
    #498945 - 11/17/10 07:41 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So what about just using one 4x4 light my first time around with the option to add/ turn on the other one when I work out the kinks with my first grow?

Quote:

jkell said:
Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
But would rather see you succeed on a first small grow than fail on a 1st big grow.



QFT
This might be the best advice you get off this board.




is this close enough to following that advice?

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Offlinejkell
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Pandor]
    #498949 - 11/17/10 07:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

no such thing as a 4x4 light bro. They're usually refered to by their wattage and type of lamp, aka 23w CFL (compact fluorescent light), 400w High pressure sodium light or Metal hallide (Each produce a different spectrum),LED (I don't really know much about LED but they are measured in watts then usually compared to an HPS or MH light output).

You gotta ask yourself how much money you are willing to flush down the toilet should you not get a hravest. If you are willing to part ways with 2 grand (maybe more for 3 rooms), then by all means don't let anyone on here stop you from growing to your hearts content. All we're trying to do is give you a practice run with as little risk possible and still plenty of reward (knowledge). In the end it really all comes down to you. Personally I would start off with 2 hempy buckets under a 400 or 600 watt MH/HPS with switchable Ballast (which means you can use both bulbs on the same ballast. Look this up if you don't understand the benefit of it.) some nice ventilation, and a nutrient line you can start to get comfortable with. Make a grow log and you probably won't be able to fail. And remember to just always keep researching too.

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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: jkell]
    #498983 - 11/17/10 11:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, there is no such thing as a 4x4 light but this crap about 600s being able to do 4x4 is just that crap. Your gonna get 3x3 of good growth then the outer plants are gonna be scraggly. A 400 watt over a 4x8 Yeah ok I'll believe that when I see it and I don't care if it's some martin super reflector being moved by a light rail.



You want a average of 2500 lumens (yeah yeah I know lumens don't measure spectrum and usable light but if you got the right bulb then you don't have to worry about that it's a fucking grow bulb) I've done a ton of work on this and I personally don't care what kind of crap is written in whatever book. I have tested this with so many strains it's not funny.


Now as Hawk said co2 is good but constant air exchange is better. Also like he said there is a reason everyone of the larger seed companies have switched to constant air flow rather then a sealed environment with co2.

So why are people calling 1000watters 4x4 bulbs
600s 3x3
400s 2.5x2.5
250s 2x2

because when you get further then that away from the bulb you get below the 2500 lumens per sq foot ratio. Don't take my word for it grab a light meter and check yourself. I've done it about 25000 times so I'm fairly confident in the results.

Find a strain and figure out how it likes to grow. Some strains are better in SOG grows.
I bred this strain myself for sog grow. I wanted a plant with low branching.



This is done by BOG. This strain is branchy and wouldn't do as well in a sog cause of all the overlapping growth. You'll get little buds in the lower growth and nobody wants to waste time growing stuff to make hash out of.



Yeah yeah yeah you can train it bend it yadda yadda to make it work in a sog but do you really wanna worry about how to train the plant while you're still learning the basics? I have my doubts that you do. Once you have your grow system down (nutrients, light placement, airflow, security)

There is a lot to look into. Take for instance 600 watt lights. I've heard for years how they are more efficient then 1000s (and they are supposedly 7 to 10% better but I have yet to see it make any kind of difference in yield what so ever) so I switched every one of my grows to 600 watters () and ended up hating them and  going back to 1000s. I have ever yet to see a experienced grower have a easier time getting a gram per watt in a 3x3 foot area then a experienced grower with a 1000 gets in a 4x4. Put it this way. Look at pics of all the growrooms that the breeders use (and there are plenty of pics of their rooms outthere) and tell me which bulb they are using.


--------------------
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:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #498989 - 11/18/10 01:53 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Breeders who grow larger plants would have reason to use 1000w bulbs as I explained earlier. 600w's are best for short plants. I've actually asked a couple of breeders why they don't use 600w's and they tell me that the 1000ws are easier to set up having to hang half as many reflectors, have half as many ballasts, run less ducting.

Heath Robinson on various forums is one person who I think of when thinking of very efficient grows using 600w bulbs and sometimes smaller bulbs. As far as documented grows and amazing results I don't think anyone online can touch Heath Robinson's yields. I'd frankly be shocked to find a grower who couldn't improve his yields by switching to 600w lights unless growing tall plants, or using a Colosseum or some sort of hydro system that distanced the plants too far from the bulb. All SoG growers I know that have tried both 600w and 1000w lights are happy/happier with the 600ws.

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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499176 - 11/18/10 03:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So your gonna say that a grower can yeild more from a space using a 600 over a 1000. That's a load of crap or somebody is making shit up.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499269 - 11/18/10 07:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Watt per watt I believe so not light per light.

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Offlinejkell
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499275 - 11/18/10 07:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So your saying that if you were to graph watt/electrical usage and grams produced per plant on a graph, equilibrium would be reached with a 600watt lamp and anything under isn't to full potential and anything over is wasted energy? Interesting. I'd like to see someone do an experiment on this. Seems like some important grower info

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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: jkell]
    #499293 - 11/18/10 08:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think there's a lot of things that factor into yield, I think even a side by side comparison of the two wouldn't be fair the 1000w's have more penetration power making them by far the better light for tall plants.


600w's are supposed to create 11% more lumens per watt over the 1000w's. More lumens per watt = more yield per watt. I haven't a meter to measure the output nor do I have a new 1000w lamp nor the desire to purchase one. Pico over at ICMAG has done testing with a light meter, identical reflectors, etc and has some reports of lumen per foot // total canopy level lumens produced. I'd like to see more information about specific brands of bulbs.

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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499334 - 11/19/10 01:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

They say this, they say that it's all second hand crap. I have a meter here and plenty of 600watt bulbs and plenty of 1000 watters and so on and the difference never adds up to the 11% they claim in fact it's closer to 7%. Now as far as what the bulb makers claim I have all that info right next to me and to be honest when you add up their own numbers it still doesn't come out to 11% or even 10%. The 10% they claim isn't enough to make any kind of noticeable difference on yield.

Now as far as them being better for small plants I have to argue on that one too. Not only does the 1000 have more penetrating power (which really doesn't come into play unless you want to count the plants on the edge of the garden and I do) but it also has a larger spread and since the 1000 is higher above the plants the hot spot in the middle of your grow area or directly under the light is way less pronounced.

Yes I do agree the 600s are more efficient but is the difference enough to make me jump on the bandwagon.....nope that train left the station years ago.

In other words just buy the bulb that fits your space. :rolleyes:

Last 600s are fairly popular in Holland and it has nothing to do with efficiency or ventilation it has to do with the fact that most houses in Holland have electrical systems that can't handle 1000watt bulbs and the loads they create.


It's elbongo time. :bonghit3:


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499336 - 11/19/10 02:50 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said: I have a meter here and plenty of 600watt bulbs and plenty of 1000 watters and so on and the difference never adds up to the 11% they claim in fact it's closer to 7%.




What distance do you take measurements at?

What size of a footprint are you taking your measurements from?

Quote:

Magash said:
They say this, they say that it's all second hand crap. I have a meter here and plenty of 600watt bulbs and plenty of 1000 watters and so on and the difference never adds up to the 11% they claim in fact it's closer to 7%. Now as far as what the bulb makers claim I have all that info right next to me and to be honest when you add up their own numbers it still doesn't come out to 11% or even 10%. The 10% they claim isn't enough to make any kind of noticeable difference on yield.

Admitting 600ws are more efficient than 1000ws by producing more lumens per watt without defending why 1000ws are apparently superior is a fairly weak argument for the 1000ws.


Now as far as them being better for small plants I have to argue on that one too. Not only does the 1000 have more penetrating power (which really doesn't come into play unless you want to count the plants on the edge of the garden and I do)

By penetrating power I am referring to the drop in lumens vs distance from bulb the 1000ws maintaining a better amount of lumens further from the bulb = better for taller plants or lower budsites.


but it also has a larger spread and since the 1000 is higher above the plants the hot spot in the middle of your grow area or directly under the light is way less pronounced.

I'm aware that the canopy size for a 1000w is larger (typically 4x4' or 16 sq ft) vs a 3x3' for a 600w this means little to someone running multiple lights and seeking the best efficiency.

Reflectors have far more to do with hot spots than the bulbs themselves or the distance from the canopy. Although I don't know what the lumen distribution across my canopy is the canopy temperature is consistent. Hot spots are more common with mirrored / polished finishes on reflectors vs a pebbled/dented reflector.





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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499337 - 11/19/10 02:58 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Here's an example of some data that can be used to illustrate the efficiency of bulbs and the advantages of a 600w vs 1000w or vice versa. Data taken from Jorge Cervantes' Marijuana Horticulture Grower's Bible from the charts in the lighting chapter.

1000w HPS

1ft = 140 000 lumens or 140lumens per watt
2 ft = 35 000 lumens or 35 lumens per watt
3ft = 15 555 lumens or 15.555 lumens per watt
4 ft = 9999 lumens or 9.999 lumens per watt


600w HPS

1ft = 90 000 lumens or 150 lumens per watt
2 ft = 22,500 lumens or 37.5 lumens per watt
3 ft = 9999 lumens or 16.665 lumens per watt
4 ft = 6428 lumens or 10.7133 lumens per watt

At 4ft the 600w is just barely more efficient but the 1000w is delivering the much needed lumens to the lower canopy to develop those budsites if there are any. This and simplicity are the only advantages I recognize for the 1000w over 600w.

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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499341 - 11/19/10 04:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

There ya go quoting shit again and it's getting kind of old. Has George done the tests , nope he's just quoting the numbers the light makers advertise with. Some people are happy not doing the work and quoting crap but all it takes is a light meter, a few bulbs and the truth comes out. He also says that HPS are better for vegging so I guess I should get rid of all the MH I use to veg with?

Those numbers are just fantastic if you grow all your plants directly under the bulb. Myself I haven't found a way to do that so I need a light that produces at the edges of the garden also. Everyone of his numbers are directly under the bulb. How do I know, cause that is where the light makers take the readings and he's quoting those numbers.

So the guy with the 600 can be happy with his pound of bud from his space. I'll use the 1000 in the same space and be happy with the extra pound I get over him. :wink:











and why are there no numbers on the 750s? They have been out for a few years

http://www.progressive-growth.com/proddetail.php?prod=750ge



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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499345 - 11/19/10 05:19 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

There ya go quoting shit again and it's getting kind of old.




I quoted a source that I had which is a lot more than mentioning you have bulbs, a light meter, and apparently know how to use it without any sort of data. I wouldn't be surprised if the measurements in Jorge's book were from the light makers for that particular chart. He did however construct a black room to test different wattage bulbs and various reflectors concluding similar results. Who knows though, maybe he didn't build a room he claimed he did?

I'd like more information on how you made your measurements it would be great to have some actual information contributed.

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499351 - 11/19/10 06:14 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You are getting some great advice here. I would only add this: you said you aren't worried about odor inside the house, only outside. I am from the better safe than sorry camp, so...
I heard on the news about a local bust where the cops had chased a suspect from another crime and lost him in the area. They were knocking on doors when they smelled a strong odor from one of the houses they stopped at. That gave them probable cause to come in and Blam! he's in jail for over 100 plants( prolly clones but they count as a plant)
Just saying.. ya can't be too careful. Especially since you live in a semi ghetto hood- anything can happen.. Sounds like you're spending a good bit to get started, why not cover ALL the bases..:shrug:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Hendershot]
    #499399 - 11/19/10 11:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Bulbs of varying wattage's were used from 250 to 1000. Bulbs were hung a certain distance from the floor and measurments taken directly under the bulbs and every 6 inches in each direction from the bulb. (and yes the bulbs are the same models just different wattages. Bulbs are from Hortilux, Ultra Sun, Sun Master and Solar Max. Bulbs used were new and done with the owner of Growers Choice in Modesto Calif. Originally done so he could have a chart posted up next to the bulbs he sells) The bulbs used were given away right here on this site for free. (Thanks to the whole 2 people that gave me a good trade rating for a free bulb ya bunch of buttheads :tongue::wink::crazymonkey:)

Light meter is a CHY 332


I know about his black room I have video footage of him making it.

In fact now that you got me thinking about those videos I'm gonna make torrents out of them and I'll have links to them up in the lounge if ya want them. I'll have em up by tomorrow night. :wink:




Oh yeah, there was 1 company and only 1 that had numbers higher then what they advertise. The company was Ultra Sun. The thing about these bulbs is they are half the price of the other brands. Here is the thing we found funny about it. In every case the ratings on the Hortilux and other brands is higher then the Ultra Suns but in every case the Ultra Suns beat them.


and now it's morning ElBongo time. :happyweed:


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InvisiblePandor

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499405 - 11/19/10 11:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

WoW

Thanks Magash and everyone.

I have so much more to learn. All of your input is helping me tremendously. Much appreciated.

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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499406 - 11/19/10 12:02 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
Bulbs of varying wattage's were used from 250 to 1000. Bulbs were hung a certain distance from the floor and measurments taken directly under the bulbs and every 6 inches in each direction from the bulb. (and yes the bulbs are the same models just different wattages. Bulbs are from Hortilux, Ultra Sun, Sun Master and Solar Max. Bulbs used were new and done with the owner of Growers Choice in Modesto Calif. Originally done so he could have a chart posted up next to the bulbs he sells) The bulbs used were given away right here on this site for free.

In fact now that you got me thinking about those videos I'm gonna make torrents out of them and I'll have links to them up in the lounge if ya want them. I'll have em up by tomorrow night. :wink:





Do you have the data you collected? What reflector was used?

I'm not even sure if the Ultra Sun bulbs are easy to find where I live. Here the SolarMax and Hortilux seem like the best available bulb.

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499462 - 11/19/10 03:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I'm trying to dig up that info now. I'm hoping it's not in my other computer that my daughter is always on at the other house. (She's a member here also goes by Mini-Maggie)

You know the ultra sun bulbs are pretty good I'm running them now and the plants seem to like em as much as the Hortilux bulbs (my personal favorite). I was gonna get some of their MH bulbs for my vegging plants but right now I'm using (he he he now this is gonna be funny) Hortilux 600watt MH bulbs for them and they seem happy so I don't want to change that till those bulbs run their course.


Oh yeah now that I think about it. You seem up on the products Maryanne3087 . You wouldn't happen to know why Advanced Nutrients stopped making VHO do ya and if there are any products out that do what it did?

:happyweed:


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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499482 - 11/19/10 07:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I use Barricade from Advanced Nutrients and that's it. I don't really know much about VHO Very High Output other than it was a foliage spray. Basically all the respectable hydroponic stores around here stopped carrying Advanced Nutrients, I can't think of a place in town that has the full line of AN. I did a quick google search and found a label for VHO saying it's derived from Ammonium Nitrate and Potassium Nitrate. Worm Casting tea has done wonders in my garden as a foliage spray worm castings if the worm castings used are fresh there is a lot of benefit from the bacteria/fungi, trace minerals, plant growth regulars (have read studies indicating that PGR's present in plants naturally remain in worm castings in significant quantity - not positive of this claim). I haven't sprayed my garden with anything but Neem for a while now. Things I would spray are worm castings, neem, calcium nitrate, CAL-MAG, kelp, humic acids.

After a quick search I'm already skeptical of VHO being a superior foliage spray as potassium nitrates point of deliquescence is 93% RH while calcium nitrate is 53% RH, the POD is the RH at which the nutrients are going to be most soluble to the leaf. I think POD is basically the RH where the nutrient is soluble/becomes liquid and can penetrate into the leaf best it's been explained to me better than I can explain it to you I'm no chemistry wizard.

I'd try spraying some kelp, humic, worm casting tea with calcium nitrate and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it out preformed VHO. If you're on ICMAG check out spurr or PODRACER's posts out, they are both gurus on foliage feeding.

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499566 - 11/20/10 12:16 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Myself I pretty much don't like much from advanced nutrients other then the vho. I've been using it for years and nothing works like it. Well for speeding up vegitative growth there are a few things but for making the plants grow new shoots and speed up branching (to the point that no topping or bending is needed. The plants will grow new shoots just as fast as a plant that has been topped.
I like the worm castings and all that (particularly fond of a sea weed product called Alg-A-Mic. The plants seem to really love the stuff and there is a noticeable difference in veg growth within days) but I haven't found anything in 30 years under the lights. (Fucking holy shit this actually is my 30Th year under the lights where has the time gone) that even comes close to doing what the vho does.
My problem is I'm down to my last few gallons of the stuff and they went and discontinued it cause they didn't have a large enough sales base. (Well that is what the guy told me on the phone today. Most likely bullshit. He also said they had a problem with people constantly using to much of it. Which believe me you don't want to do)


and last Nirvana finally returned my e-male on the AK-48 (after sending the question at least 5 times) and they are claiming what Ed (a person I know very very well and dislike very very much) did in the big book of buds that it's Jock Horror x Ice. Weather it's just AK-47 x Purple Skunk or Jock x Ice all I can say it that it's one hell of a fast growing plant.


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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499584 - 11/20/10 03:42 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

If it works that well, and works better than a concoction of nutrients with a more favorable POD it must have components other than the ammonium nitrate and potassium nitrate. Maybe it contains plant hormones/PGRS. What happens when you use too high of a PPM?

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499595 - 11/20/10 05:42 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You know it looks like when you over feed with regular nutrients. The leaves will curl up badly and very fast. You spray right before the lights go out and if you over did it you'll know by the time the lights turn back on. Now like I was saying the leaves will curl but they don't burn (as far as I know. I may not have gone high enough to burn them) After doing a little research I'm leaning toward some kind of cytokinin mix in the stuff. Auxins would cause to much stretching and it doesn't seem to do that at all.

Like I said I'm no fan of Advanced Nutrients but this one product I'll do commercials for.


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InvisiblePandor

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499678 - 11/20/10 02:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So far what I am thinking from what I've gotten from this actual discussion is as follows:

I should definitely start with just one room then keep adding more equipment/upgrading as I go.

I should probably buy one either 400 or 600 watt bulb and grow a few plants as a trial run. Is this better then buying one 1000 watt bulb? I was thinking I can just add another 400 or 600 watt bulb next to the first one and cover more surface area and grow more smaller plants as opposed to bigger plants.

Am I on the right track?

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Pandor]
    #499679 - 11/20/10 02:56 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah you seem to be on the right track but realize one thing. Once you get sucked in it never stops. There is always something coming to mind that you can do to improve the garden. :awedance:


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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499688 - 11/20/10 03:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

. I did a quick google search and found a label for VHO saying it's derived from Ammonium Nitrate and Potassium Nitrate




Looks like this is spot on according to the MSDS sheet on VHO. I have no idea why the stuff works so well.


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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499697 - 11/20/10 04:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe it doesn't work as well as you think it does and you just haven't used a foliage spray that works as well as it could. There's a hydroponics shop nearby my friend owns that has a stock of AN in the basement they don't sell maybe there's some VHO kicking around if there is I'd love to test it vs my own foliage sprays. I have like 50L of Barricade I bought for a steal.

It might sound like shit talking AN hating but the Ammonium Nitrate and Potassium Nitrate are NOT what is making this product work, whatever is in the product would work better if the nutrients had a lower POD. As this isn't your first rodeo and I can only assume this VHO stuff is actually good there must be PGRs/hormones in it.

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499724 - 11/20/10 06:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I'm thinking the same thing. When I questioned the guy at AN about it (I called their headquarters) he flipped out so I think there is some kind of hormone thing going on.


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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499752 - 11/20/10 07:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I haven't really cared to confront any nutrient companies about the products they sell which are either formulated by a child or obviously mislabeled.

I called GH before to ask about why they being such a massive and wealthy company don't spend the $30 000 or whatever it costs to get OMRI certified or any sort of organic certification and they told me it wasn't about the money but they just feel the certification doesn't make the nutrients any more valuable...

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Re: critique my noobness [Re: maryanne3087]
    #499762 - 11/20/10 07:56 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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Re: critique my noobness [Re: Magash]
    #499763 - 11/20/10 08:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:





Is Alg-A-Mic still produced by GH in the states? AFAIK, it's produced by Bio-Bizz and the companies are completely separate now.

I called GH about their General Organics line.

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