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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440007 - 06/30/10 05:57 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Silica is immobile so it parks it's sharp ass somewhere in your plant without ripping it to shreds and doesn't move until your plant has died and decomposed. Silica therefore has to be supplied to your plant continuously for your plant to further benefit. Eventually you get your harder stems because of the silica making your stems more rigid because it's found throughout your plant tissue. Not because it's caused massive scarring which inadvertently would cause rot/infection if that was the case.


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Offlinethe man

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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: maryanne3087]
    #440010 - 06/30/10 06:03 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Silicon (Si) is the second most abundant element in the earth’s crust and is also abundant in most soils (Marschner, 1995; Epstein, 1994; Datnoff et al., 1997).  It is readily taken up by plants and is often present in relatively high concentrations in plant tissues (Epstein, 1994).  Silicon concentrations in plant tissues sometimes even exceed the concentrations of Nitrogen and Potassium (Epstein, 1994).  Therefore, Si is often a major constituent of plant tissue, although it is not considered to be an essential nutrient for terrestrial plants in general (Epstein, 1994).  No other presumably non-essential element is present in such consistently high amounts in terrestrial plants (Epstein, 199


tadaaaa!!!!

im edumacated yo!! Maybe in the future we will see Si based life!


Edited by the man (06/30/10 06:03 PM)


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Offlinethe man

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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440013 - 06/30/10 06:06 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

also harry! in teh studies they are talking ionic silica so just dissolved silica which in small amount comes from quartz or glass or whatever you want to call it. Si dioxide is silica. so dont give me all this bs of elemental stuff and unsuable Si. silica blast is glass period.




Edited by the man (06/30/10 06:16 PM)


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440019 - 06/30/10 06:19 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

the man said:
Silicon (Si) is the second most abundant element in the earth’s crust and is also abundant in most soils (Marschner, 1995; Epstein, 1994; Datnoff et al., 1997).  It is readily taken up by plants and is often present in relatively high concentrations in plant tissues (Epstein, 1994).  Silicon concentrations in plant tissues sometimes even exceed the concentrations of Nitrogen and Potassium (Epstein, 1994).  Therefore, Si is often a major constituent of plant tissue, although it is not considered to be an essential nutrient for terrestrial plants in general (Epstein, 1994).  No other presumably non-essential element is present in such consistently high amounts in terrestrial plants (Epstein, 199


tadaaaa!!!!

im edumacated yo!! Maybe in the future we will see Si based life!





Umm yes, that sentence exactly illustrated what I was saying.


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Offlinethe man

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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #440053 - 06/30/10 07:26 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

interesting but it doesnt mean anything. basically no one knows any reason for it in most plants. but as heavy metals and pestacides can bio accumulate so does Si. should read the next sentence. rice and horse tail use it...

anyway, you can pay for it all you want. i dont know who told you the BS about needed for cell wall hydrophobic shit.

There may however be something else in silica blast thats not silica!! or some unnatural compound that does do something which is possible.

i love learning and i have tried to prove myself wrong as well. I have not read any evidence that is convincing.

Cheers man you know i got your back on climate shit!! hzaha

peace


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Offlinethe man

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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440084 - 06/30/10 08:25 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

after reading what is in silica blast. it is not silica, but other silicates. from their description it sounds like they think the plants get the refractory properties of the compounds!

also says    hahaha
Also contains non-plant food ingredients:
2% Silicon (Si)


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440085 - 06/30/10 08:28 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Silica is the dioxide form of Silicon.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440097 - 06/30/10 08:36 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

the man said:
i dont know who told you the BS about needed for cell wall hydrophobic shit.





I don't know where you got the BS about hydrophobic because I sure never s


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Offlinethe man

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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #440102 - 06/30/10 08:43 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

you said it was in the phospholipid biayer which its not and its also hydrophobic and hydrophilic. sorry, was just in my brain what it does.

can you agree now its not 100% used by plants like you said. come on admit you were wwrong. haha :wink:


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440124 - 06/30/10 09:10 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I have caught onto your strategy for debate. You google a bunch of stuff read bogus articles and webpages. Make nonfactual statements and question a bunch of stuff until someone doesn't provide you with a answer to your satisfaction.

I'd still like you to comment on your theory of silica (yes the dioxide form of silicon) ripped through plant tissues causing scar tissue thus making the stems stronger.


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440155 - 06/30/10 10:36 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

You wanted a sufficient explanation for other claims of Silica effecting plants?

For drought/heat resistance the silicon/silica deposits in the cell walls of the xylem vessels strengthening them/making them more rigid this makes them not compress when there's lack of water/high heat from excessive transpiration.

For insect resistance, the epidermis gets hardened from Silica/Silicon and makes the epidermal level harder to penetrate.


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OfflineDieselB
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: maryanne3087]
    #440176 - 06/30/10 11:16 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

maryanne3087 said:
I have caught onto your strategy for debate. You google a bunch of stuff read bogus articles and webpages. Make nonfactual statements...





Yeah, thats the debate strategy for most people on the internet..

:catfrog: Kitty-Frog means I win. :electrickoolaid:


--------------------
If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie. :shrug:


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Offlinethe man

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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: maryanne3087]
    #440192 - 06/30/10 11:56 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

maryanne3087 said:

I'd still like you to comment on your theory of silica (yes the dioxide form of silicon) ripped through plant tissues causing scar tissue thus making the stems stronger.




that was just a theory how it could make stems and stuff stiffer. dude i study plants and geology so i do know a thing or 2 about what goes on.

also maryjane you have no idea what your talkng about what silica does and have no substantiation. at least harry tried to give articles, but those are for special case plants.

one reason i know about silica in plants is because of its use as a proxy for climate. i have researched it extensively but there is alot of problems with using "opal" as it tends to exchange O with environment. so anyone who does isotope work with silaceous diatoms and stuff be very wary of them or what they say!! so please please dont say anything if you really have no idea. im not a dick really but i just hate misinfo.

this reminds me of how companies put "no sugar added" ingredients: sugar cane juice. well fuck me running 70% of sugar comes from cane sugar. very misleading, people train for years to do it....



Edited by the man (07/01/10 12:03 AM)


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440198 - 07/01/10 12:04 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

You study what about plants?

Obviously if you had studied plants you would know a thing or two about Silica?

If you studied Geology I'd assume you would know that soil and the earth's crust don't necessarily mean the same thing. You would probably also realize there's structural and chemical differences between Perlite and Silica. Unless of course you did your studying in India or Africa.

From your earlier post it seemed you were not aware of the difference in Silica and Silicon and Perlite you simply said they're all glass (Si).

Btw, I'm quoting you from the time I posted.
Quote:


that was just a theory how it could make stems and stuff stiffer. dude i study plants and geology so i do know a thing or 2 about what goes on.




Edited by maryanne3087 (07/01/10 12:05 AM)


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Offlinethe man

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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440200 - 07/01/10 12:06 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

ok for all you guys i have an experiment for you to do at home.

take a plant such as a tomato. place in HF acid or other, centerfuge, then collect all your Silica. seriously you guys!!! minds!!!


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Offlinethe man

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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440203 - 07/01/10 12:15 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

k maryjane last comment to you. yes they are all glass there is many dif glasses and is a blanket term, elemental Si is not glass!! look up what perlite is made of  probably 60% plus of silica, thats why you dont breath it in cause it can fuck with yoru lungs.  if soil has ANY sand or perlite in it it has alot of silica period dont be dumb. I can imagine many soils with no silica as it can be blown in washed down from rivers ect or from glaciers.

ok so last time, just really stop

and the product uses silicates that are nutritive and not silica. chemistry is tuff but very useful. even says teh silica in it is no used!!! so argument is done i win on some facts but i should have read about the specific product and not assume it was just silica!! my bad on that but no one argued that :smile: hehe

what i study specifically right now abotu plants is how they facilitate teh precipitation of calcium carbonate or marl. then use stable isotopes to find water temp from 1000s o years ago.


Edited by the man (07/01/10 12:19 AM)


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440208 - 07/01/10 12:23 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

the man said:
also maryjane you have no idea what your talkng about what silica does and have no substantiation. at least harry tried to give articles, but those are for special case plants.




You think only specialized(or special case) plants benefit from silica placement in their xylem and epidermal cell walls?


Let's see what google finds.

1. Silica can exceed many macronutrients in the plants final dry weight with concentrations of as much as 10%
2. Plants deprived of silica are often weaker and have growth abnormalities.
3. Only nutrient not detrimental when collected in excess.
4.Alleviates biotic and a-biotic stress.

Also mentions cell wall accumulation and forms of silica found in soil which are accessible by plants..

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/mcm247v1

Another source mentions Diatoms (algae) synthsizing their cellwalls from silicic acid. Actually this wiki page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_wall

This journal mentions strengthening root cellwalls with silica deposition. http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/44/7/743


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440210 - 07/01/10 12:28 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

the man said:
k maryjane last comment to you. yes they are all glass there is many dif glasses and is a blanket term, elemental Si is not glass!! look up what perlite is made of  probably 60% plus of silica, thats why you dont breath it in cause it can fuck with yoru lungs.  if soil has ANY sand or perlite in it it has alot of silica period dont be dumb. I can imagine many soils with no silica as it can be blown in washed down from rivers ect or from glaciers.

There's a difference from perlite and plant accessible silica.


ok so last time, just really stop

and the product uses silicates that are nutritive and not silica. chemistry is tuff but very useful. even says teh silica in it is no used!!! so argument is done i win on some facts but i should have read about the specific product and not assume it was just silica!! my bad on that but no one argued that :smile: hehe

The product said non plant nutrient, as silica is immobile and sent to around the plant to strengthen cellwalls of the epidermis (root, leaf, stem) and xylem, and etc it is not directly used by the metabolism as it just accumalates and provides rigidity it is not a plant nutrient.


what i study specifically right now abotu plants is how they facilitate teh precipitation of calcium carbonate or marl. then use stable isotopes to find water temp from 1000s o years ago.




weak.


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Offlinethe man

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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: maryanne3087]
    #440214 - 07/01/10 12:33 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

ya i talked about diatoms just like your cell wall in wiki does sooo??? whats it say about "normal" actual plant cells oh nothing about silica really??  did you read the article did you understand what it says?? did i say there are special cases of plants using it such as the case in Sorghum bicolor!! good efforts!  k no more baiting me haha :smile:

harry sorry for derailing thread!!! your grows kick butt, i watch them religiously and have respect. truly truly


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: Harry's 2010 Grow Log, 1200W, Flo, Sweet Tooth, Maneater and Snowcap (moved) [Re: the man]
    #440215 - 07/01/10 12:39 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

There's plenty about ALL plants accumulating huge amounts of Silica (10% dry weight), specifying that they benefit from rigidity and that Silica doesn't become toxic when collected in excess. Rigidity is the culprit of the drought/heat tolerance as the xylem vessels don't suffer from excess transpiration.

You're a goon. The wiki page is simply a reference to cellwalls being greatly and in some cases entirely composed of silica. Ie. Diatom skeletons/casings.


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