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InvisibleInverted
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #380737 - 03/09/10 02:16 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

You don't need to upgrade lighting yet man.

I would probably be able to veg 4 plants with the setup you have...

I used (2) 42 watters and (4) 30 watters to veg these 5 plants, but I started with about 10 and culled the males.



One more... I'm sure you've already seen them but it applies.



I mean I probably wouldn't have flowered all of those under the CFL, but I COULD have flowered 2-3 of them if I wanted/needed to.  I think you will only want to add a couple more during flowering, because I honestly don't think you need that much light for one plant just to veg it.

P.S.  The plants in that picture are about 8" tall and not even 30 days old...  I'll give you something to shoot for as a goal :super:


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OfflineTrueHerbCrystal
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: Inverted]
    #380748 - 03/09/10 03:09 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Wow, cool. Thanks Inverted!

That's amazing that you used only 204 watts to veg 10 plants (with 5 being male)...thats like 20 watts per plant. Damn! And you said you "culled the males"? Is that a fancy way of saying you "killed" them? Never heard that word before...culled. Interesting.

Man, your plants look amazing! And you say they are not even 30 days old and they are already 8" high?! I'm guessing its not the strain that doing all that super-fast growing...:wink:

I just measured mine, and its barely 3 1/2" tall and she's 34 days old....I guess I missed that goal by a long shot! Oh well, for my first grow, I'm just glad she isn't dead yet! I made that goal thus far....

As for flowering light, I will be changing over to about three-to-four 42 watt 3500K large CFL bulbs....I got a question. Would it be better to mix full-spectrum 5000K with redder-spectrum 3500K bulbs during flowering or just use straight reddish 3500K ones?

Because I remember you said outdoor budz are the best, so would having light more like the sun during flowering help it or would it just not flower in that upper light spectrum?

What to do, what to do...:strokebeard:
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~


Edited by TrueHerbCrystal (03/09/10 03:11 PM)


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #380757 - 03/09/10 04:14 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

For flowering, use more of the red spectrum because it is better for flowering growth, but I would still recommend putting some of the blue spectrum CFLs in there as well because they put off UVB.  UVB can help keep buds dense and keep internode distances shorter during the stretch.  2700K I think are better than the 3500K if you can get your hands on some, but throw a couple 6500K in there for UVB and your set.  For example, I use two 42W 6500K CFLs in addition to my 600W HPS.


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: dutc2006]
    #380760 - 03/09/10 04:36 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

actually, I did a ton of research on UVB bulbs when I was shopping for reptile lights and what I found is that most commercial CFL's produce almost no UVB at all, and in fact they specifically add a UVB inhibitor coating to the bulbs.

If you want UVB then you need to buy a bulb like this

http://www.petco.com/product/13365/Zoo-Med-ReptiSun-Desert-Compact-Fluorescent-UVB-Lamp.aspx


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #380839 - 03/09/10 07:54 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for that info, since you pointed it out I have been able to find evidence that supports that by googling it.  Well for what it is worth I have these 6500K CFLs in my flower closet.:shrug:

I always knew reptile lights were made for UVB, but read somewhere that 6500K CFLs put off a high amount of UVB.  I was duped.  I posted this same info in another thread I but retract that statement there as well.  Well, there may be other benefits of full spectrum lighting in flower.  I still think it may have a positive effect on limiting stretch...


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OfflineTrueHerbCrystal
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #382078 - 03/11/10 05:23 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

*** Young Plant: Getting Taller and Greener  ***

Today's Date: March 11, 2010 (Thursday)
Seed was planted on: Febuary 5
Day 36

^Getting so tall these days! (even thou its just inches at a time). I watered her last night because the soil was lookin' pretty dry, and she
was lookin' a little droopy (which is a sign of *over* watering, but I checked the soil, bone-dry). Everything is looking healthy, except
maybe those bottom leaves and the cotelydons, which look toasted. Small loss.

- Also, if you notice the 2nd-to-last photo, there is yellowing on the tips of the leaf. I wonder what that means....

I also noticed this when I checked the dry/wetness on the bottom of the pot....

^Rooting is done! Looks like I need to transplant to a bigger pot. This time, I'm going to use a square, plastic kind with lots of holes on the bottom. I'm just not sure on what size I should use....

What's the rule, 3 times the original pot size? I searched for it and found nothing, so I'm a little confused on the transplant pot size thing. I found Space Pilots "transplant" thread, but that transplant was going backwards! That was even more confusing....

And look at the difference it made watered it in just one day....here's Wednesday afternoon.

Date taken: March 10, 2010 (Wednesday)
Day 35

^See the drooping? One soak watering with my chem. nutrients seemed to cure that. At least that's what it looks like.

Well, it looks like another trip to the plant nursery to buy a larger square pot from those pretty girls who work there....it can't get any better than for me....

Still Growing Good!
:thumbup:
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~


Edited by TrueHerbCrystal (03/11/10 05:25 PM)


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InvisibleInverted
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #382089 - 03/11/10 06:03 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

You do not need to transplant simply because you see some root tips poking out the bottom.

If you were rooting clones in a small amount of medium and see root tips coming out then you know you are "rooted".

Usually you need 1 gallon of soil/medium for every foot of vertical growth, with a little bush to it.  My plants are scrogged, but if they were grown vertical they would probably be ~22" tall, and I have them in 2 gallons, and they are quite bushy, and I don't see any signs of root binding.

I think you can let her go at least another week before you even re-evaluate transplanting, because remember what I told you before?

You never want to have too much soil for a little plant, it will never be able to process the moisture of larger volumes in the proper time cycles.

For example, plants that are your height, probably only need a Solo Cup, however at 6" I move them up to 1 gallon/6" containers.  From the looks of it, you don't need to transplant until there is literally almost twice as much foliage as there is.  If you transplant now to a larger container, it will take too long to dry out in between each watering and the roots won't have to go searching for moisture and it won't promote nearly the growth of the roots as if you kept them dry like I do.  You also risk root rot and other growth stunting scenarios when you keep your soil too moist rather than too dry.  It's always easier to add water to your container than to wait for them to dry out. :wink:


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OfflineTrueHerbCrystal
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: Inverted]
    #382097 - 03/11/10 06:14 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Good point....so I'll wait on the transplant then.

I'm glad I waited for you, because I was just about to leave to buy the pot. But I didn't even know what size a pot to get, so I would have been lost anyway.

I'll have to remember that rule you said:  "Usually you need 1 gallon of soil/medium for every foot of vertical growth, with a little bush to it."

So, about 1 gallon of pot space (or 6" tall and wide pot) per 1 foot of vertical growth. Simply enough! And Noted! Thanks for the simplified rule Inverted....you never disappoint! :awesome::thumbup:

As for the roots on the bottom, what should I do with them? Let them keep growing outside the pot? What if I smash them when I place the pot on the floor? Would that be bad for my baby girl?

Totally right about the moisture control, forgot about the water control is important for the roots. And as I've seen and as you said, too dry soil is ALWAYS better than too wet soil. These ain't rice field plants after all! Staying in pot, it is!

Mentally-Noted!
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #383472 - 03/14/10 11:57 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

I have heard that when replanting plants, it is sometimes good do cut the roots at it sides, it makes the roots grow more violently.
Hows it going?


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: dstark]
    #383911 - 03/15/10 08:07 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

The only reason to disturb the roots at all during a transplant is if the plant is root bound. It can really help the roots break into the new soil to loosen up the clump in that case, note I said loosen not cut. Now I admit when I go to put my tomatoes in the ground I don't loosen, I stab the shit out of the root ball with my trowel and then shove it in the dirt up to its first node, but that's tomatoes not my beloved ganja.

THC: as for the little tips poking out don't worry about them at all. They will eventually dry out when the roots figure out there is no more dirt that way, it will just grow out more tips somewhere else. If you get to the point where you look in that hole and see a solid mass of roots then it is past time to transplant but one little tip is no problem.

I see Inverted was talking about lights I didn't read the original question but I will :thumbup: his post. Very small plants need very small lights. The biggest thing to pay attention to is the node spacing for this phase. You want it to grow but not stretch, too intense of a light or having them too close can be a bad thing. If the plant is growing healthily and not showing you it wants more light (by stretching) then you are fine and like Inverted said you can really do the more with less. Also I will note that I have my new mother and 2 bushes that will be next to flower under 8 23w blue CFL's and they are almost to bushy, like you literally can't see inside, it's all just a mass of leaves. It makes training them a challenge and if I had it my way they would be a little less bushy. So maybe I did myself a disservice by using so much light, BAH NEVAHHHH.

It is all about the experience in this hobby. I have found so many people here have wonderful information but the real fun is going to the garden and applying it in your own creative ways. You sir have done an excellent job at this and I have no doubt things are going to improve rapidly for you, I am definitely sending good vibes your way.

Now let me go take some pictures so you can all see what is up in potatoville.


--------------------
"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz

"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound


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OfflineTrueHerbCrystal
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #384684 - 03/16/10 03:06 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

*** Young Plant Status: Healthy and growing fast. ***

>>> Construction Addition: CO2 Supplementing by Chemical Reaction via drip system - Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) + Vinegar <<<

Date: March 15, 2010
Seed was planted on: Febuary 5
Day 41


^Well, I finally built my CO2 supplementing system, using my drip system that I used for the water. The glass jar in the foreground is filled with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and the vinegar is constantly dripped on it from the clear vinyl hose above the jar. What's cool about it is that I can see the smoke-like CO2 leave the jar during heavy soaking...Looks like some mad experiment....science rules! :nerd: Instructions on this constructions are listed below in "Procedure"...

- As for my plant, she looks kinda droopy in this photo likely cause I didn't water her in awhile. I checked the soil, and it was pretty dry, but not *completely* dry. Kinda felt like it just had atmospheric moisture and that's it. Not sure. Anyway, I soaked with my mixed Shultz(r) fertilizer water, and the next day, it really sprang up and was no longer droopy...

- And the reason why I put the CO2 supplementation system was because I will be flowering soon due to time-constraints (see below), and I wanted to encourage growth as much as possible.

***
Young Plant Status: Changed so much in one night. Still Healthy ***

Today's Date: March 16, 2010
Seed was planted on: Febuary 5
Day 42 :leaf:

^I've also noticed some interesting phenotype expressions in the different layers of the leaves. On the second photo, the top leaves have skinner, Sativa leaves...but on the bottom layer, they have broader, fatter, shorter leaves like Indica...Pretty weird. Is that normal for plants? To show different blendings of the species?

- I took a top photo from the light wagon, just because it looks cool. And its getting to big to take a photo of the whole thing in close-up.

>>> Construction Procedure: CO2 Supplementing by Chemical Reaction via drip system - Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) + Vinegar <<<

This is how I made the Drip system for this new CO2 supplementing set-up.

First, I bought these 3 parts from Homey D and assembled them using channel-lock wrenches and Telfon(r) sealant (pictured below).

^I actually had to use 2 different parts. The valve is a multi-turn gate valve, used as a plumbing part (or indoor water lines for a sink for instance) and the ends are barbed brass Pex(r) parts that are used for some other plumbing application (not sure, irrigation?). It was tricky finding the right sizes for the threads on the plumbing valve (since they are not meant to be attached to each other), but I finally figured it out. Total cost of these parts was about $10.

After that, I measured and cut some new vinyl tubing (1/2" ID for valve) and some small 1/4" ID for guiding the liquid to the destination.

Next, I completely drained my old water drip system I already build til it was dry.....

Then, I took off the ball valve from the in-place vinyl tubing and put on this new gate valve multi-turn, and tighten all the metal clamps to stop leaks.

^I also adding some string to the valve to take some of the weight load off the main connector at the soda water bottle plastic valve.

After that, I filled up the clear soda bottle with vinegar I bought weeks ago...


Next, I grabbed a clean pint glass jar I use for shroom growing, and filled it up with a box of silly-cheap ($0.50 a box) "Arm and Hammer" brand Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) in the glass jar.

I had a problem with keeping the tubing straight, so I used a 5 inch long piece of 3/8" diameter wooden dowels and 2 small metal clamps to make it rigid and stiff, so that it wouldn't flex around. It also helped with the weighing it down in the jar, which keeps it from flipping around.

Next, I tied some string to the clamp connectors and then to the "S" hooks on the closet railing to help angle the tubing into the jar. Now the tube faces down more than horizontal.

Finally, I placed the hose over the jar of baking soda, and turned on the multi-turn valve (slowly). It worked pretty good....

...But there was some issues...

Well, first, it still had the problem with the last valve, course valve adjustment. Its like there this small window between dripping and full-flow, and its not really better than the ball valve. Its *a little* more fine, but not by much. I did get it to a drip----drip----drip rate, which is what I wanted.

Secondly, its inconsistent. I came back to the valve, to check on the valve. The dripping stopped, completely. It was dripping at a good rate, then it just stops. Really weird. Its either a problem with the valve or something with the vinegar (never tested with water). Looks like I might need to switch back to the ball valve, because this is unacceptable. And after all that trouble finding parts....:nonono:

Well, at least it worked for awhile, but the fact is ball valves just have a better design, even if they don't make great drip controllers....If only plumbing companies made a multi-turn ball valve with internal gears connected to the handle. That would be the ultimate in precision and performance....but that doesn't exist sadly....:sad:
======================================================================================

-> And I've other semi-bad news...

Well, I was looking at my college calendar (I'm currently going to school), and the end of the year ends around June 10. And the thing is, I'm moving out of my current place by that time, most likely sooner, and my brother and my Dad are going to help me move. In other words, my plant has to be done and harvested by at the latest May 15. Considering my plants 7 week minimum flowering period, I have to start by March 20 (4 days from now).

So, March 20 I will begin flowering...I know, she's too small and I will likely get little harvested. But I'm on a different time schedule now: moving out. So, I really don't have a choice.
March 20 is going to have to be the date for the 12-on/12-off 2,700K light switch over. If only I planted my seed a month eariler....

Preparing for flowering....
with some Chemical Reactions.
:nerd:
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #384773 - 03/16/10 06:15 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Looking healthy man! :thumbup: so did you ever figure out the problem?


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OfflineTrueHerbCrystal
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: Triptonic]
    #384778 - 03/16/10 06:20 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Hey, you're finally back!

No, I never found out what happened. I still have some minor problems with the tips of all the leaves turning yellow and brown, and the lower leaves (the Indica-looking ones) drooping, but other than that, I'm guessing it was just not getting enough nutrients and when I gave her some (the Shultz liquid stuff), it took awhile to recover...just my guess, I really don't know.

Hopefully nothing like that happens again....

Only time will tell...but yeah, she's growing really fast everyday...I wish I could veg for like another month, but because I'm moving, I got to cut it short (hence the CO2 supplementing).

Should be big enough to grow some kind of budz right?

Only time will tell
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #384784 - 03/16/10 06:25 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah man you will get some bud off that, not saying it will be a lot. But you will defiantly get something. Looks like quite the turn around though man. You are defiantly doing something right now.


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: Triptonic]
    #384804 - 03/16/10 06:41 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Definitely. She's a lot happier now.

I just measured her: she's a even 5 inches tall! :eek: She's come a long way from that little seedling she used to be....

I also think it might be my watering method that helped. Before I would lightly spray the soil frequently, and get problems...

But now I water just every 2 days (or when the soil is completely dry out), and I soak it, to the point of water coming out the bottom. That technique that Inverted taught me really works great. :thumbup:

How about your plants Trip, how are they doing?

~ TrueHerbCrystal ~


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #384812 - 03/16/10 06:44 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

They have some yellowing on the bottom leaves, I think I starved them a little bit. But they are perking back up. I will update my log here in a second.


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #384825 - 03/16/10 06:47 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

THC- looking very good. I bet you could still pull a good 7-10 grams from that girlie with proper lighting and care.

I look forward to the next 2 months :grin:


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: Triptonic]
    #384836 - 03/16/10 06:51 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

I had some of that too. I had to cut off both sides of the leaves (I already cut them once for curling). I'll be switching over to FoxFarms(R) "Tigerbloom" pretty soon, maybe that will help...

So an update today huh? Can't wait to see it....I'll be watching  :eek:

"Engineering: report!"
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
    #385777 - 03/18/10 07:22 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Looks good!
I have read that adding CO2 in any way to grow inviorment does not help very much with weak lightning.


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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) [Re: dstark]
    #385936 - 03/18/10 03:42 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Is that so?

What's considered weak lighting? Where did you read this?

It also depends on the temperature: plants need higher temperatures to absorb the CO2 from the air, among other nutrients like water and N-P-K. Its been pretty cold lately, like 77F, I hope thats warm enough to benefit the plant. Might have to use a heater to heat the room maybe.

~ TrueHerbCrystal ~


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Avalon Magic Plants
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