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InvisibleMagashM
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: SpaceMonkey]
    #285879 - 09/24/09 07:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

They say one of the main reasons that using a bong is worse is that the amount if filters doesn't make up for the much longer time you can hold in the hit from a bong which is also larger then hits you can take other ways.


I don't know if many know this but since ya mention medical cannabis just so people know if ya get caught with bubble hash your cool. ISO hash is not covered under prop 215 and isn't covered under medical guidelines cause of the butane use to make it. Many clubs don't know this and stock it.


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OfflineSpaceMonkey
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #285882 - 09/24/09 07:40 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

LOL, The debate was kinda interesting watching them argue the point. I am pretty sure the debate was cleared up long ago in one of the cannabis magazines. I was more wanting to debate whether or not you get higher from the water bong or from a smaller pipe:lol:

At any rate, Here is a study done by a reputable source http://www.maps.org/mmj/vaporizer.html


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:guns: Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness :guns:

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OfflineSpaceMonkey
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: SpaceMonkey]
    #285884 - 09/24/09 07:46 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

And here is another study on effects of water filtration on marijuana.....  http://www.ukcia.org/research/EffectsOfWaterFiltrationOnMarijuanaSmoke.html


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:guns: Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness :guns:

Edited by SpaceMonkey (09/24/09 07:47 PM)

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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
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Registered: 04/20/08
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: SpaceMonkey]
    #285885 - 09/24/09 07:56 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Care to summarize the conclusions?


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OfflineSpaceMonkey
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #285888 - 09/24/09 08:01 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The rationale behind the use of a bong is the claim that the cooling effect of the water helps to reduce the chance of burning the mouth, airways, and lungs, thus many claim that using a bong to smoke is safer. The water can trap some heavier particles and water-soluble molecules, preventing them from entering the smoker's airways.[6] Thus the mechanics of a bong function similarly to those of a laboratory gas washing bottle. This "filtration" can lead to the belief that bongs are less damaging than other smoking methods.

However, a 2000 NORML-MAPS study found that "water pipes filter out more psychoactive THC than they do other tars, thereby requiring users to smoke more to reach their desired effect".[7] In the study, smoke from cannabis supplied by the NIDA was drawn through a number of smoking devices and analyzed. An inhalation machine, adjusted to mimic the puff length of cannabis smokers, drew smoke through a standard bong, a small portable bong with a folding stem, a bong with a motorized paddle that thoroughly mixes the smoke with the water, and two different types of vaporizers. Comparisons to traditional non-filtered smoking methods were not included in these experiments.

MAPS[8] also reviewed a study that examined the effects and composition of water-filtered and non-filtered cannabis and tobacco smoke. It found that when alveolar macrophages were exposed to unfiltered smoke, their ability to fight bacteria was reduced, unlike exposure to water-filtered smoke. It also found substantial epidemiological evidence of a lower incidence of carcinoma among tobacco smokers who used water-pipes, as opposed to cigarettes, cigars, and regular pipes. "It appears that water filtration can be effective in removing components from cannabis smoke that are known toxicants... The effectiveness of toxicant removal is related to the smoke's water contact area.

Specially designed water pipes, incorporating particulate filters and gas-dispersion frits, would likely be most effective in this regard; the gas-dispersion frit serves to break up the smoke into very fine bubbles, thereby increasing its water-contact area."[8] This study suggests that a bong's smoke is less harmful than unfiltered smoke.




This was an exert taken from wikipedia which was the summery for the 2 links i posted to the study sites and a few others i did not post.


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:guns: Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness :guns:

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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: SpaceMonkey]
    #285894 - 09/24/09 08:10 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Ha!  I'm not surprised.  Thanks for your work on that!


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Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~

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OfflineSpaceMonkey
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #285900 - 09/24/09 08:32 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

There is alot of good information on the first link MAPS.  http://www.maps.org/mmj/vaporizer.html Several study reports on the subject with references to other studies.

I am pretty sure HT had a write up on this subject back in the 80's that that said pretty much the same thing other then they believed THC would not be collected in the water because of the water solubility issue.

And your welcome for the research! What are mods for? :shrug:

:lol:


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:guns: Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness :guns:

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OfflineNobodyImportant
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: SpaceMonkey]
    #285965 - 09/24/09 10:38 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

but THC isnt at all water soluble, its an oil isnt it ?


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OfflineSpaceMonkey
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: NobodyImportant]
    #285974 - 09/24/09 10:46 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Well, i am not sure, but i assume even at that, the bubbling and water contact could still pull some of the oils. It or they may not dissolve in the water but still be slightly extracted from friction of the water and the THC molecule? :shrug:


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:guns: Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness :guns:

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OfflinePetergriffin467
Registered: 06/17/08
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: NobodyImportant]
    #286188 - 09/25/09 01:26 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

NobodyImportant said:
and im not trying to say that the study is complete BS, I just believe they got too shitty of weed, used weird pipes, and that when studying an illegal drug is difficult to do in todays society

In particular the water pipes they used would have been the equivalent of me putting a bic pen in the side of a 2 liter coke bottle, no proper diffusion technology

a good bong can probably filter the water 10x better than a single downstem bubbling straight up

See this pic, each of those downstems filters the smoke differently and each produces a different hit





Why the fuck do all these over priced bongs have a joint angled to the point where you can't see the weed in the slider?  I fucking hate that, it ends up making you use your lighter way more because you can't see it getting lit  as opposed to being able to look down at the weed and light it while holding the lighter above the it.  Cool bong but that joint angle would be a deal breaker for me.

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OfflineSmOakland
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: Petergriffin467]
    #286264 - 09/25/09 03:18 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

P-griff- if that is a big deal you could buy a slider that is angled.  Can't find a good pic but something like this http://img232.imageshack.us/i/dscf2919mv0.jpg/#q=bong%20slide%20bent

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OfflineNobodyImportant
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: SmOakland]
    #286274 - 09/25/09 03:41 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I mean that specific one pictured has a clear slide so you can see the herb anyway


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Invisibleusg543
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: NobodyImportant]
    #286719 - 09/26/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

this thread is full of misinformation. first you guys are making too many assumptions. i don't feel like arguing though so i'll tell my personal view.

anyways, in my personal experience, i love bongs. quick, easy, and i personally get the highest. i also have read filtering smoke through water removes a damaging part of the smoke (the wiki quote above explains it a little). so what if it filters out a little THC? totally worth it to me. i usually do snappers so i don't lose any smoke to the outside air, it all goes in the tube and into my lungs. this means i get more out of my weed i think because i'm not scared of getting scoobies, or ash in my mouth. my lungs definitely feel healthier if i smoke out of a water piece. maybe it's in my head but it works for me.

anyways, bongs are my favorite, but i also enjoy the many other methods of smoking. blunts are probably my 2nd favorite. i'm not gonna rule one out because of some dumbass study. there's a time and place for everything. and i love bongloads.  :bongload:

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Invisibleusg543
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: Magash]
    #286725 - 09/26/09 01:19 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
ISO hash is not covered under prop 215 and isn't covered under medical guidelines cause of the butane use to make it. Many clubs don't know this and stock it.




ISO hash is made with ISOpropyl alcohol not butane, hence the name ISO hash.

most people refer to the "hash" or "oil" made with butane as BHO or butane honey oil (some call it butane hash oil).

there are different names and slang but ISO is definitely not made with butane.

just a small correction. love your grows by the way.


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Offlinestoner420
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Registered: 09/25/09
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #286736 - 09/26/09 01:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

i like bongs because yes it gets you more stoned and i like smoking bowls because i feel its the healthier way of smoking

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OfflinePetergriffin467
Registered: 06/17/08
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #286887 - 09/26/09 05:07 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I want this bong

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InvisibleTriptonic
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Registered: 06/13/08
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: Petergriffin467]
    #286890 - 09/26/09 05:13 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

To the OP I would say that bongs do filter something. Could be THC could be something different. All I know is that smoking out of a pipe seems less healthy. You have to smoke way more to get the same effect with a pipe. I could take one bong hit and get the same effect as multiple bowls. I know what you are talking about with the yellow shit too. I dont know what the hell that is. But I'm going to go do some researching myself now.

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OfflineNobodyImportant
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: Triptonic]
    #286895 - 09/26/09 05:22 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I just found this posted by usg in a thread linked at the bottom of this page

very interesting :whoo:

Now I just have to find a source



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InvisibleTriptonic
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: NobodyImportant]
    #286897 - 09/26/09 05:27 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Here is where he got it.

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OfflineNobodyImportant
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Re: Bongs ? Your Opinions. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #286898 - 09/26/09 05:28 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Water Filtration on Marijuana Smoke

Quote:

In summary, it appears that water filtration can be effective in removing components from marijuana smoke that are known toxicants, while allowing the THC to pass through relatively intact. The effectiveness of toxicant removal is related to the smoke's water contact area. Specially designed water pipes, incorporating particulate filters and gas dispersion frits would likely be most effective in this regard; the gas dispersion frit serves to break up the smoke into very fine bubbles, thereby increasing its water contact area. While individuals vary greatly in their smoking technique, state of health, dosing regimen, and so on, it seems that many patients could benefit from the use of water pipes to deliver THC. This would allow patients to titrate their dose easily while reducing the health hazard associated with smoke.




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