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 Ero42oH2o
master of the bush
Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 450
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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 CFL's 
#280585 - 09/15/09 10:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Anybody grow with cfl's only. I'm thinking about trading in the h.i.d for a cfl, or high power led system and some change/addition for flowering. I imagine gram per watt will be much easier to hit but it still seems like a big commitment.
I've tried cool white 26watt cfls for vegging and had no problems other than the lack of any heat..leaving more work to pour of excess water rather than it evaporating before i got to it.
Then i'de throw em under the 400 and let em grow out for a week on vegg, then give em the 12's and watch em bud..!!!!BUT this is still very noticable on my electricity bill.
So...My question is more...any body flower under anything but a HID?
With fair results?
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All of the statements and posts I make or have made are fake. I just found all the pictures and copied and pasted them here. I am in no way associated with any of the materials discussed here. I'm just bored, and lame.
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 Dr. Penguin
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 1,036
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CFL's power to lumen ratio is far less than that of a HID. It will be much harder to achieve higher grams/watt, not easier. LED's will one day be the light of choice due to its incredible efficiency but for most people, that time just hasn't come yet.
If you like being a pioneer, (and have money to burn), try the LED's and let us know how they work out. I know we have at least one awesome LED grow log kicking around. But I would steer well clear of moving back down to CFL's.
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Zippy
Needlepoint
Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 750
Loc: Santa Cruz
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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I'm doing an experiment right now flowering under two 32 watt t8 tube fluorescents. I'll let you know how that turns out.
General consensus though is that the HID is worth the output. I also have plants (from the same seeds as my floro grow) flowering under a 1000w hps, and they're doing MUCH better. I'm even considering just dropping the experiment and moving all my plants to the HPS, just because of the noticeable difference in size/density/etc.
To answer your question, you CAN veg and flower under cfl's without problem and get fair results (I'm watching it happen now... and I've heard it work for others). Just don't expect what you would expect under that 400w 
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Even a fish could stay out of trouble if he learned to keep his mouth shut.
Indoor Floro Troublemaker/ Troublemaker x WW grow
Indoor 1000w HPS Soil Grow- *updated*
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal 
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 Re: CFL's [Re: Zippy]
#280595 - 09/15/09 11:20 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think my grow came out pretty fucking nice considering I was using CFL's. I wouldn't knock them at all, I got an ounce and 3/4 out of just one plant only 18" tall
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Dr. Siekadellyk
Question Everything!
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 9,365
Loc: Ketamine
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Quote:
To answer your question, you CAN veg and flower under cfl's without problem and get fair results. Just don't expect what you would expect under that 400w
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The Kratom Report...
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Zippy
Needlepoint
Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 750
Loc: Santa Cruz
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Mmmm budddzzzz 
That's 250w of CFL though, which (even though its CFL) is still fairly powerful.
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Even a fish could stay out of trouble if he learned to keep his mouth shut.
Indoor Floro Troublemaker/ Troublemaker x WW grow
Indoor 1000w HPS Soil Grow- *updated*
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Quote:
Dr. Siekadellyk said:
Quote:
To answer your question, you CAN veg and flower under cfl's without problem and get fair results. Just don't expect what you would expect under that 400w
lol, so you're calling those results, "fair"?
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Zippy
Needlepoint
Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 750
Loc: Santa Cruz
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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My results with 64w of cfl are fair.
YOUR results with 250w are GODLY 
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Even a fish could stay out of trouble if he learned to keep his mouth shut.
Indoor Floro Troublemaker/ Troublemaker x WW grow
Indoor 1000w HPS Soil Grow- *updated*
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Ero42oH2o
master of the bush
Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 450
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Nice job Harry. About the LED's My buddy builds panels with i think 15watt l.e.d's. And selects the colors to stay in the optimum wavelength/color of light output with out going over. But i think he uses a different panel for flowering with a few additional specialty lights. Including psoriasis/vertiligo medical for a few hrs a day toward the end. But POINT BEING he said he can hardly even tell a difference on his E bill if he has them on or off.
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All of the statements and posts I make or have made are fake. I just found all the pictures and copied and pasted them here. I am in no way associated with any of the materials discussed here. I'm just bored, and lame.
Edited by Ero42oH2o (09/15/09 12:09 PM)
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: CFL's [Re: Zippy]
#280616 - 09/15/09 12:03 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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lol thanks, I'm just messing around anyway
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Dr. Siekadellyk
Question Everything!
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 9,365
Loc: Ketamine
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eh. ...you got nice results!, but you also used 250W which is still a nice output of lumens regardless of using cfls.........Ive also gotten pretty good results using cfls, nothing like my 1000W HPS does, but still good........ ive also seen pretty skimpy buds using cfls......it depends on how much wattage you use.....they do give nice trichome production, but nothing extremely fat and dense....
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The Kratom Report...
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Ero42oH2o
master of the bush
Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 450
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Lighting beliefs..what you think?
STOP IT WITH THOSE FLICKERING, COAL BURNING BULBS! LEDs are THE state of the art lighting. These lamps use surface mount LEDs which provide the highest efficiency. The light is emitted directly from the surface. Light often passes through plastic or glass which reduces the effectiveness of lesser LEDs. Every lamp except LEDs puts out light as an indirect result of an initial process. For example, fluorescent bulbs, touted as being energy saving and green start out by producing UVC (almost as high frequency as X rays). The phosphors painted on the inside of the bulb, including mercury, reduce the energy of the UVC down to visible energy spikes. This makes the bulbs considerably less efficient than LEDs at producing visible light. They also give you a very unbalanced spectrum. The energy spikes, whose sum only gives the illusion of white, makes for a very irritating and depressing environment. Full spectrum LEDs give you an appealing balance of all the frequencies in the visible spectrum without creating any UV and without containing Mercury. Even the longest running metal halide will only give you 12,000 hours with significant reduction in spectrum from the moment it's fired up.
If you want light bulbs that will never fail, give you 100% healthy light for study or work, and save you as much money on your electric bills as possible GO LED TODAY! These bulbs I have been tested and are completely reliable. Although they are rated at 100,000 hours, they are designed to last FOREVER!!!!
The actinic plus is effective combined with the red LED to stimulate an even amount of growth in chlorophyll-a, chlorophyll-b and carotenoids. This arrangement is recommended for plants that require high levels of carotenoids.
The Pure Actinic, combined with the red LED makes for a perfect lighting arrangement when coloration is of high importance. The violet light produced by the actinic helps colorize plants genetically predisposed to purple coloration.
---HIGH FREQUENCY SPECIALTY BULBS---
This lamp puts out a high ratio UVB in an energy spike at 311 nanometers. This lamp is best used within the last week of flowering while flushing in a sugar solution. A noticable increase in trichomes and active chemicals will occur.
Fluorescents are great for higher frequencies like UVB since the phosphors don't have to reduce the energy level very much. LEDs that put out UVB are very expensive and low output in comparison. This is why I choose Fluorescent for this task.
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All of the statements and posts I make or have made are fake. I just found all the pictures and copied and pasted them here. I am in no way associated with any of the materials discussed here. I'm just bored, and lame.
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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nice cut and paste skills
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Ero42oH2o
master of the bush
Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 450
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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ha its from a friends public myspace site. He wont mind. :-)
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All of the statements and posts I make or have made are fake. I just found all the pictures and copied and pasted them here. I am in no way associated with any of the materials discussed here. I'm just bored, and lame.
Edited by Ero42oH2o (09/15/09 12:28 PM)
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Ojom
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 333
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Quote:
Harry_Ba11sach said:
I think my grow came out pretty fucking nice considering I was using CFL's. I wouldn't knock them at all, I got an ounce and 3/4 out of just one plant only 18" tall
I am really impressed with your results using CFLs. Could you share with us some more details on your lighting setup? I understand you had about 250 real watts of CFLs and that 6 or 7 of those were 26 watts. I'm assuming that means you had 2 42 watt bulbs as well. How do you think those two wattages compare to each other in regards to light output, heat output, how close to the leaves they can be kept, and the size of the bulbs themselves? The 26 watt bulbs are cheaper, walmart has 6 packs for $13-20, while the 42 watt bulbs are about $17 for two. I don't want to invest too much into the CFL setup as there are plans for a 250 watt HPS in the future, but whether that happens or not remains to be seen, so the CFL setup may need to be sufficient enough to provide a few harvests.
Anyone with mounting or configuration tips for CFLs please chime in.
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Re: CFL's [Re: Ojom]
#281003 - 09/16/09 12:34 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here's what I have going right now.
I have a 400 watt HPS that I'm going to add once I start to flower.
This is 276 watt, 19200 lumen setup built for about 40 bucks.
I could have used the bigger bulbs, but like you said they are quite a bit more expensive.
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Ojom
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 333
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Those are interesting fixtures. How much mobility do they provide you with? Do they swivel at the base or just at the one obvious point? Do you have a separate power cord for each one?
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Re: CFL's [Re: Ojom]
#281048 - 09/16/09 01:26 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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They swivel 360 degrees if I want. They are just threaded into a 2x4.
I spliced them all together in a series so 1 plug powers them all.
I also added an end so I have 3 extra outlets if I need them.
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Ojom
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 333
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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That setup seems ingenious. Looks like it could allow for a number of different light angles / configurations.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: CFL's [Re: Ojom]
#281067 - 09/16/09 02:19 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Jeeze this is starting to become a joke. Never in my life have I seen a cfl grow that wouldn't have been over 75% better if the person used the same wattage of HID light. Compare a 250watt cfl and a 250watt HID. You could have used a 175watt Hid and still had almost double the light of the 250watt cfl and ran it for less money.
LED light. Yeah I do think this is the wave of the future but it's just a small ripple on the water right now, Put it this way, if this is gonna take over HID's why hasn't one of the major companies expressed a interest in them.
This is with 2000watts of HID light  I wanna see 2000watts of cfl's do that.
CFL's are for cuttings and seedlings. (To be honest I don't even suggest them for seedlings)
I see beautiful buds grown under cfl's and every time I think "he could have had 4oz for every one he grew for the same growing expense." I'm not even gonna get into the light penetration issues with the cfl lights.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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ASEgrower
Stranger
Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 36
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281193 - 09/16/09 09:57 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
Jeeze this is starting to become a joke. Never in my life have I seen a cfl grow that wouldn't have been over 75% better if the person used the same wattage of HID light. Compare a 250watt cfl and a 250watt HID. You could have used a 175watt Hid and still had almost double the light of the 250watt cfl and ran it for less money.
LED light. Yeah I do think this is the wave of the future but it's just a small ripple on the water right now, Put it this way, if this is gonna take over HID's why hasn't one of the major companies expressed a interest in them.
This is with 2000watts of HID light I wanna see 2000watts of cfl's do that.
CFL's are for cuttings and seedlings. (To be honest I don't even suggest them for seedlings)
I see beautiful buds grown under cfl's and every time I think "he could have had 4oz for every one he grew for the same growing expense." I'm not even gonna get into the light penetration issues with the cfl lights.
OK, I have a 2x2 growspace in a closet. Ventilation is extremely limited, heat will be a problem. Thats why people use CFLs. Would I like to use 2KW of HPS? Yeah, but its not possible right now, nor affordable.
You dont have to shit on peoples day, sometimes you cant always do the optimum thing.
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Ero42oH2o
master of the bush
Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 450
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281197 - 09/16/09 10:17 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks magash, you just owned that question.
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All of the statements and posts I make or have made are fake. I just found all the pictures and copied and pasted them here. I am in no way associated with any of the materials discussed here. I'm just bored, and lame.
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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yes he did, because every person in the world can afford to use 2000W of HPS for their grow. 
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Dr. Siekadellyk
Question Everything!
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 9,365
Loc: Ketamine
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Quote:
OK, I have a 2x2 growspace in a closet. Ventilation is extremely limited, heat will be a problem. Thats why people use CFLs. Would I like to use 2KW of HPS? Yeah, but its not possible right now, nor affordable.
I agree
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The Kratom Report...
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Quote:
OK, I have a 2x2 growspace in a closet. Ventilation is extremely limited, heat will be a problem. Thats why people use CFLs. Would I like to use 2KW of HPS? Yeah, but its not possible right now, nor affordable.
Well duh, What you do is get the right Wattage light for the space. You can't be so stupid to think I meant a 1000 in a small space. For any space there is a HID that can fit it and do the job way better. I'm sorry you cfl guys get so butthurt but do a little research. 250watts of cfl light is hotter then 250 of HID cause less of the energy is being made into light, What that means is a 150watt HID would have done the job better then the 250watt cfl.
You have to stop locking in on the wattages. 200watts of cfl may work for a space but when thinking of HIDs you have to erase that 200wattage thing. A 100watt or acutally less then that will put out more light then the cfl and have batter penitration to the bottoms of the plants.
You can buy a complete 150watt HID system for 80 bucks. The 200watt cfl bulb alone is more then 60 bucks.
Now I'm not trying to rain on anybodys parade but arn't I suppose to point out better ways of doing things I kind of thought that is why we are here. Want to pay more for lesser results be my guests. To somebody just starting, crack open a book and look up the different bulbs or go to the hydro store and they will (or should) be more then happy to fire up some lights for ya and you can see for yourself before making the decision.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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Dr. Siekadellyk
Question Everything!
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 9,365
Loc: Ketamine
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281259 - 09/16/09 12:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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yeah, I could see if your really tight on cash using a couple cfls to get the job done but if your using or planning on using a few hundred watts in cfls then just go with a low wattage HID instead.....
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The Kratom Report...
Edited by Dr. Siekadellyk (09/16/09 12:34 PM)
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Man I hope I'm not coming off harsh here. Now if the space is so small or you are so hard up for cash (yes people I do realize this happens) you can only get those small cfls at the store then ya do it. When ya get the cash then up grade.
Now say a HID system did cost double the cfl system but you had the cash to buy one of them, wouldn't 3 times the bud kind of make up for that in the end.
Now to the guy who PMed me the writing on the box that says that 43 watts of that cfl is equal to 100watts of regular light they are comparing to incandescent bulbs. 
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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Ero42oH2o
master of the bush
Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 450
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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yea this is like free oaksterdam....no room for frownie faces
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All of the statements and posts I make or have made are fake. I just found all the pictures and copied and pasted them here. I am in no way associated with any of the materials discussed here. I'm just bored, and lame.
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ASEgrower
Stranger
Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 36
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281268 - 09/16/09 01:19 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
Quote:
OK, I have a 2x2 growspace in a closet. Ventilation is extremely limited, heat will be a problem. Thats why people use CFLs. Would I like to use 2KW of HPS? Yeah, but its not possible right now, nor affordable.
Well duh, What you do is get the right Wattage light for the space. You can't be so stupid to think I meant a 1000 in a small space. For any space there is a HID that can fit it and do the job way better. I'm sorry you cfl guys get so butthurt but do a little research. 250watts of cfl light is hotter then 250 of HID cause less of the energy is being made into light, What that means is a 150watt HID would have done the job better then the 250watt cfl.
You have to stop locking in on the wattages. 200watts of cfl may work for a space but when thinking of HIDs you have to erase that 200wattage thing. A 100watt or acutally less then that will put out more light then the cfl and have batter penitration to the bottoms of the plants.
You can buy a complete 150watt HID system for 80 bucks. The 200watt cfl bulb alone is more then 60 bucks.
Now I'm not trying to rain on anybodys parade but arn't I suppose to point out better ways of doing things I kind of thought that is why we are here. Want to pay more for lesser results be my guests. To somebody just starting, crack open a book and look up the different bulbs or go to the hydro store and they will (or should) be more then happy to fire up some lights for ya and you can see for yourself before making the decision.
First off, I dont think calling people stupid is really required to answer a question, you will just derail the thread worse than it already is. I didnt say that you implied to use a 1000w light in a 2x2, please show me where I said that, I will apologize immediately.
To further this, put your money where you mouth is. Post a link to a complete 150W HID for 80 bucks. If you can that would be great, cause i would buy it in a heartbeat. I havent found one for that price.
Pointing out there are better ways is fine, but dont recommend a corvette to someone who is in the market for a chevette.
ETA: the cheapest I can find a 150w HPS is 100 bucks shipped to my door. And that still doesnt include the extra money I will have to spend on a better cooling system for the light, as it is intended for a smaller space.
Edited by ASEgrower (09/16/09 01:23 PM)
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281294 - 09/16/09 02:16 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I believe I did get a little carried away with my system. Plus, I got caught up in the CFL hype.
In the past I've just used a few 40 watt fluorescent tubes in the el cheapo shop light fixtures.
Just recently Menards had a sale of CFL along with a mail in rebate. I got each 23 watt bulb for 75 cents.
In reality the setup I'm using is better than the one I would have been. I really didn't plan on putting that many lights together. It just kind of happened.
My biggest concern was heat generated. In all actuality CFL produce alot more heat than the old shop fixtures. I was disappointed when I realized that. It's not much of a difference but CFL's do run hotter.
I figured I would just use them for veg and as supplement lighting while in flower.
I've never used HID but I think they probably produce alot more heat than CFL's but I'm not sure.
Right now I have to keep my central air at 70F and my fan on full to keep the plants at 76-80F.
Those fixtures I used where 1.50 each.
All in all the cost was very small but that's because of the deal I got on the light.
I really just got caught up in the hype like I said earlier.
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281302 - 09/16/09 02:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
Man I hope I'm not coming off harsh here. Now if the space is so small or you are so hard up for cash (yes people I do realize this happens) you can only get those small cfls at the store then ya do it. When ya get the cash then up grade.
Now say a HID system did cost double the cfl system but you had the cash to buy one of them, wouldn't 3 times the bud kind of make up for that in the end.
Now to the guy who PMed me the writing on the box that says that 43 watts of that cfl is equal to 100watts of regular light they are comparing to incandescent bulbs.
see that's just what it came down to for me. I was unemployed and broke so I decided to grow myself some weed so I wouldn't be spending money buying it. out of that came my CFL situation, which cost me only $50 to setup (already had the grow tent).
Now that I have a job and I can use the tent with CFL's as a mothering area you will find many threads in this forum about me planning on purchasing at least 1000W in the next couple weeks 
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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The very first place I went to. Off by 10 bucks. [url=http://nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/lighting.aspx?request=HORT_SS150&title=Complete Systems&type=product]150[/url] You didn't even look.
Now it's your turn to show me that cfl grow system for less.
Quote:
Pointing out there are better ways is fine, but dont recommend a corvette to someone who is in the market for a chevette.
I've already shown that a cfl grow light costs more. If you wanna grow with hardware store bulbs fine but your not looking for a chevette as you would say but more of a skateboard or bicycle.
A 150 wouldn't need anymore of a cooling system then the cfl system would.
and last at even a 100 dollar price you still get the system for less the a equal cfl system.
Here ya go [url=http://nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/lighting.aspx?request=SUN-SYSTEM-8&title=Fluorescent Lighting&type=product]cfl[/url] Half the light for more money. Right up your alley.
Examples from the Sunlight Supply 09 Catalog.
150watt cfl 7600 lumens $59.95
150watt HID 16500 lumens $23.95
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281531 - 09/16/09 08:55 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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those links didn't work.
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ASEgrower
Stranger
Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 36
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281718 - 09/17/09 08:21 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
The very first place I went to. Off by 10 bucks. [url=http://nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/lighting.aspx?request=HORT_SS150&title=Complete Systems&type=product]150[/url] You didn't even look.
Now it's your turn to show me that cfl grow system for less.
Quote:
Pointing out there are better ways is fine, but dont recommend a corvette to someone who is in the market for a chevette.
I've already shown that a cfl grow light costs more. If you wanna grow with hardware store bulbs fine but your not looking for a chevette as you would say but more of a skateboard or bicycle.
A 150 wouldn't need anymore of a cooling system then the cfl system would.
and last at even a 100 dollar price you still get the system for less the a equal cfl system.
Here ya go [url=http://nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/lighting.aspx?request=SUN-SYSTEM-8&title=Fluorescent Lighting&type=product]cfl[/url] Half the light for more money. Right up your alley.
Examples from the Sunlight Supply 09 Catalog.
150watt cfl 7600 lumens $59.95
150watt HID 16500 lumens $23.95
I guess you didnt bother to read my post at all, huh?
Good deal, price the bulbs, not a complete setup. The ballast, the whole nine yards, why didnt you do that?
That said, you still havent addressed the point. No one is saying that it will be an equal amount of light. What is being said is that it can be done cheaper, with less heat, in a small closet with CFL.
I also notice that you didnt include the higher cost involved with cooling the light, etc. Why not?
So, please post the complete ballast, bulb, reflector, and all, and the equipment to cool the light for 80 bucks please, so that I can order one.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Here ya go cut and paste http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/customkititems.asp?kc=HLCSHPS015IV&eq= Anybody can go to any site that sells both a complete cfl set up and a equal HID one can see the Is not just a little cheaper but way cheaper. Now it's your turn. Find me a complete cfl system that has as many lumens for less.
Quote:
That said, you still havent addressed the point. No one is saying that it will be an equal amount of light. What is being said is that it can be done cheaper, with less heat, in a small closet with CFL.
I already fully addressed this point. HID's are cheaper and as I showed earlier they run hotter then HIDs to get the same amount of light,
Even you can see that 1000 lumen's of light from a cfl light is gonna run way way way hotter then 1000 lumen's from a HID cause it takes way less power to get to the same amount of light. They cost less, are way more efficient, and cooler.
If you don't need to cool 200 watts of cfl you don't need to cool 100watts of HID so it takes no more to cool the HID as the cfl in this case.
I'll say it in a way even you can understand. If a 200watt HID puts out more light then 200watts of cfl why is that? Because the cfl turns more of the power it uses into heat then light. Do we kind of get it now?
Do you do any research before you spout your crap?
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ASEgrower
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281739 - 09/17/09 09:34 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
Here ya go cut and paste http://nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/lighting.aspx?request=HORT_SS150&title=Complete]http://nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/lighting.aspx?request=HORT_SS150&title=Complete Systems&type=product]150 even you can handle it. Anybody can go to any site that sells both a complete cfl set up and a equal HID one can see the Is not just a little cheaper but way cheaper.
Quote:
That said, you still havent addressed the point. No one is saying that it will be an equal amount of light. What is being said is that it can be done cheaper, with less heat, in a small closet with CFL.
I already fully addressed this point. HID's are cheaper and as I showed earlier they run hotter then HIDs to get the same amount of light,
Even you can see that 1000 lumen's of light from a cfl light is gonna run way way way hotter then 1000 lumen's from a HID cause it takes way less power to get to the same amount of light. They cost less, are way more efficient, and cooler.
If you don't need to cool 200 watts of cfl you don't need to cool 100watts of HID so it takes no more to cool the HID as the cfl in this case.
I'll say it in a way even you can understand. If a 200watt HID puts out more light then 200watts of cfl why is that? Because the cfl turns more of the power it uses into heat then light. Do we kind of get it now?
Do you do any research before you spout your crap?
I really dont think that this needs to be a personal argument. Lets keep it above the boards, this is a friendly place and it should stay that way.
That being said, as I originally said, and will say again, I can do a cfl grow in my closet for less than 50 bucks in a small space that prohibits me from using any other light source. You dont have to spend 60 bucks on a 100w of CFL. Combining smaller bulbs can usually be done much cheaper.
Not every grow is perfect, not every grower can do the optimum thing at all times. Blindly saying, CFLs are garbage and you need <insert item here> everytime someone asks isnt right. How many times have you grown with CFLs? Maybe your posts would be better if you related those experiences to compare with others, instead of pontificating about the usefulness of CFLs?
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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I'm willing to bet I've grown with cfls more times then anybody in this post. Yes you can combine bulbs but you will have the wrong spectrum and hardly any of the light is usable by the plants so when I say they are garbage it isn't blindly saying so. I've been under the lights since 1985 and I take the time to do things right.
You can get HID lights all the way down to 75watts so combining bulbs isn't cheaper either.
Use cfl's anythinbg that grows buds is useful but there is no case where they are cooler, cheaper, or better in anyway then HID lights. People that use them thinking they are cheaper are robbing themselfs in the long run also. Costs more then double to run the lights then hid's to get the same amount of light. Floro light isn't gonna penitrate the plant layer like a HID no matter how powerful it is. So over a longer period of time you pay double to get (and this isn't a joke or being hyped up) over 75% less bud.
Every part of the plants growth is better also. The plants can use more of the food fed to them both better and faster with the light from HIDs.
Sorry I tend to get a little to into the growing thing and when I see somebody trying to go backwards I gotta say something but I can do it better.
But anyway here is another example. I feed my plants to the limit as I have posted before. Now if I were to go to even a equal amount of cfl light my plants would fry cause the light they have isn't efficent enough for them to use all the food I currently feed them. 
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Magash
The Feminizer
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281744 - 09/17/09 09:56 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I gotta do this. Anybody I offended or called stupid or a tard sorry. I tend to get a little to into this growing thing and like I said when I see people going backward I get frustrated and bang my head against the keyboard and tend to get a little to into growing at times.
But just so you know I have done the cfl thing, the grow tube thing and so on. Hell you guys should have seen the first reflectors for grow lights when they came out. Over 5 feet across. 
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Ben18
Drunk Derelict
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281923 - 09/17/09 03:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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God you are such a badass.
This thread is pure win, finally finished my debating on cfl's vs. hid
ASEgrower, why don't you just save up an extra $20-40 bucks wait a few more weeks to start you're grow and you wouldn't have that problem at all.
 &
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ASEgrower
Stranger
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#281930 - 09/17/09 03:38 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
I gotta do this. Anybody I offended or called stupid or a tard sorry. I tend to get a little to into this growing thing and like I said when I see people going backward I get frustrated and bang my head against the keyboard and tend to get a little to into growing at times.
But just so you know I have done the cfl thing, the grow tube thing and so on. Hell you guys should have seen the first reflectors for grow lights when they came out. Over 5 feet across.
I appreciate your posting, and respect your experience. A lot of life is experience, and it seems like you have it (really, 1985? Wow, you make me feel young, and I am not). Do you really think that a 150wHPS can be used without any more cooling than CFLs? A friend went with a 250 one time and was doing it in a space about 4x2. He had heat issues constantly. He couldnt get the light within probably 3 ft of the plants and I think that he suffered greatly from it in quality. He also did not directly cool the light. He had ventilation, and a fan, but it wasnt cooling the lamp per se. How close can one get a 150w, without directly cooling the light, to the plant material?
Ben18, I agree, and think that I will. I will start vegging under the CFL now though, and save for the other.
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Ben18
Drunk Derelict
Registered: 04/22/08
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Quote:
ASEgrower said:
I will start vegging under the CFL now though, and save for the other.
 Right On!
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Well you can get the 150watt pretty close to the plants as long as you have a good cooling set up for the space being grown in. Which your gonna need anyway so that the plants get the air exchange they need anyway.
Old, well put it this way when I was in school the killerest green you can find (and it was killer) was $25.00 a 1/8th and we would moan and bitch how much it costs and how we would never pay more then 25. Then came the 30 dollar prices, then 40, then up to $65 for a while then it went back down to 35 to 45 a 1/8th where it has pretty much stuck at.
Quote:
Ben18, I agree, and think that I will. I will start vegging under the CFL now though, and save for the other.
Just so you know it never stops. You get the new light and get the killer results. Then it's what if I increase the airflow. You make the changes and yield goes up a little more. Then it's what if I go hydro, and you do and get a better yeild. Then it's What if I increase the light and you get a little more and it just keeps going.
What I'm saying be careful. Once bitten by the growing bug it don't wanna let go. 
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#282057 - 09/17/09 07:44 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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speaking of which, magash would you mind dropping a line over here? http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/281948
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 24,985
Loc: No where ville, USA 
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Quote:
ASEgrower said:
Quote:
Magash said:
Quote:
OK, I have a 2x2 growspace in a closet. Ventilation is extremely limited, heat will be a problem. Thats why people use CFLs. Would I like to use 2KW of HPS? Yeah, but its not possible right now, nor affordable.
Well duh, What you do is get the right Wattage light for the space. You can't be so stupid to think I meant a 1000 in a small space. For any space there is a HID that can fit it and do the job way better. I'm sorry you cfl guys get so butthurt but do a little research. 250watts of cfl light is hotter then 250 of HID cause less of the energy is being made into light, What that means is a 150watt HID would have done the job better then the 250watt cfl.
You have to stop locking in on the wattages. 200watts of cfl may work for a space but when thinking of HIDs you have to erase that 200wattage thing. A 100watt or acutally less then that will put out more light then the cfl and have batter penitration to the bottoms of the plants.
You can buy a complete 150watt HID system for 80 bucks. The 200watt cfl bulb alone is more then 60 bucks.
Now I'm not trying to rain on anybodys parade but arn't I suppose to point out better ways of doing things I kind of thought that is why we are here. Want to pay more for lesser results be my guests. To somebody just starting, crack open a book and look up the different bulbs or go to the hydro store and they will (or should) be more then happy to fire up some lights for ya and you can see for yourself before making the decision.
First off, I dont think calling people stupid is really required to answer a question, you will just derail the thread worse than it already is. I didnt say that you implied to use a 1000w light in a 2x2, please show me where I said that, I will apologize immediately.
To further this, put your money where you mouth is. Post a link to a complete 150W HID for 80 bucks. If you can that would be great, cause i would buy it in a heartbeat. I havent found one for that price.
Pointing out there are better ways is fine, but dont recommend a corvette to someone who is in the market for a chevette.
ETA: the cheapest I can find a 150w HPS is 100 bucks shipped to my door. And that still doesnt include the extra money I will have to spend on a better cooling system for the light, as it is intended for a smaller space.
http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/sun-system-light-kits-c-25_107.html
On that page is a 77 dollar 150watt light.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: CFL's [Re: Stoneth]
#282090 - 09/17/09 08:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good find stoney that place has some good prices on their light kits. Man if a 250watt cfl bulb alone goes for 99.95 it has to be over 110 at most other sites.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
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Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#282095 - 09/17/09 09:07 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I do a lot of business with these guys too.
Orders usually arrive a day early.
Hell last year I brought my 400 watt digital from them with shipping under 200 bucks.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: CFL's [Re: Stoneth]
#282099 - 09/17/09 09:10 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I may use them myself. I'm in the market for 8 1000watt digital ballasts. I'm gonna call em and see if they have prices on bulk buys. (Although 8 really isn't a bulk buy)
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#282105 - 09/17/09 09:16 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Damn it man, sounds like buld to me, but then again I'm a poor fuck.
Well time to plant 10 babies, so y'all have a good evening.
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Ojom
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 333
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: CFL's [Re: Stoneth]
#282167 - 09/17/09 11:41 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oops, cancel that, was looking at the wrong thing on hidhut's page.
Edited by Ojom (09/17/09 11:47 PM)
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Lucid
Monster Plant Creator
Registered: 07/18/08
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Loc: Canada-ish.
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Re: CFL's [Re: Ojom]
#282334 - 09/18/09 06:42 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I ran a CFL grow back when I was just starting to grow, it definitly got the job done, but as people have said you wont get the same results as you would with higher watt systems.
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ASEgrower
Stranger
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Re: CFL's [Re: Lucid]
#282372 - 09/18/09 10:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Lets vary this slightly. I called around looking for a 150w HPS. One of the places was trying to talk me into a t5 fluoro setup. its a 4 bulb 4ft setup. What are the thoughts on a setup like this. This was recommended over a 150w HPS.
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Dr. Siekadellyk
Question Everything!
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 9,365
Loc: Ketamine
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ive heard good things about T5 flouros but ive never used it myself.....
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
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Quote:
ASEgrower said:
Lets vary this slightly. I called around looking for a 150w HPS. One of the places was trying to talk me into a t5 fluoro setup. its a 4 bulb 4ft setup. What are the thoughts on a setup like this. This was recommended over a 150w HPS.
I have used them.
Don't recommend them tho.
Yields were way smaller them days you get what I'm saying here.
CFL's do a better job honestly over tubes.
But I use MH/HPS when I grow.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: CFL's [Re: Stoneth]
#282506 - 09/18/09 02:42 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well ya got me on that one. I've done the cfl grow thing and we all know what I think of them but I had heard good things on the T5s though. I've never used them or even seen those fired up so I'm glad I saw Stoney.69s post on em esp if he has used em before.
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Stoneth
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#282509 - 09/18/09 02:50 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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The plants tend to get long and thin really.
The last time I used them I had three finished at about two foot tall, got like 20 grams a plant.
I'm watching these LED's tho, they look real good right now except the price.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
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Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: CFL's [Re: Stoneth]
#282575 - 09/18/09 05:46 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
stoney.69 said:
The plants tend to get long and thin really.
The last time I used them I had three finished at about two foot tall, got like 20 grams a plant.
I'm watching these LED's tho, they look real good right now except the price.
yuck! Yeah, i wouldn't mind trying LED's either. I want to see more from them though. The led growlogs around here are great for that. ASE, when the salesman recommended t5's over the hid did he mention the price? Was it any cheaper? I've never used them so I would refer you to stoneys opinion. long thin plants don't sound too appealing to me. You know that wont happen with the good ol' HID system. You can grow a small forest with the HIDs. 
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
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Posts: 5,615
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Re: CFL's [Re: Stoneth]
#282661 - 09/18/09 08:54 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
stoney.69 said:
The plants tend to get long and thin really.
The last time I used them I had three finished at about two foot tall, got like 20 grams a plant.
I'm watching these LED's tho, they look real good right now except the price.
These(AK47 x Diesel auto flower ) are 27 days old and 7 inches tall. My 1st grow under T5's. I don't like the heat but light does penetrate better.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: CFL's [Re: KaptKid]
#282687 - 09/18/09 10:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Kapt I don't know if you have access to clones but if you do ditch the auto flower strains. Get some cuttings and flower them a few days after bringing them home. They should be around 6 inches tall or so. Flower them right away and wala 
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Dr. Siekadellyk
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Loc: Ketamine
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#282698 - 09/18/09 10:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
Kapt I don't know if you have access to clones but if you do ditch the auto flower strains. Get some cuttings and flower them a few days after bringing them home. They should be around 6 inches tall or so. Flower them right away and wala
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ASEgrower
Stranger
Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 36
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Quote:
FurrowedBrow said:
Quote:
stoney.69 said:
The plants tend to get long and thin really.
The last time I used them I had three finished at about two foot tall, got like 20 grams a plant.
I'm watching these LED's tho, they look real good right now except the price.
yuck! Yeah, i wouldn't mind trying LED's either. I want to see more from them though. The led growlogs around here are great for that. ASE, when the salesman recommended t5's over the hid did he mention the price? Was it any cheaper? I've never used them so I would refer you to stoneys opinion. long thin plants don't sound too appealing to me. You know that wont happen with the good ol' HID system. You can grow a small forest with the HIDs.
Well thats the thing, it didnt seem like a great deal to me. He said that he had a 150W HPS Sun systems setup with the hood ballast bulb and all for like 90 and some change. Then he tried to sell me on the T5s. He was very upfront about what was being grown and said that the t5s would give a higher yield. For a 4 bulb 4 ft (4x4) he wanted 139, thats with the bulbs. Here is the link to his website:
http://www.ugrowindoors.com/
I ended up talking to another place in my part of the country, lets say within driving distance and they have the same 150w hps sun systems light for 87 dollars. I think that i am going to pick one of those up. My plan originally was to go with a scrog. I still think for my limited garden space its the best bet.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/239247/an/1/fpart/1
check that link for scrog info. you won't be disappointed with the hid. good luck!
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: CFL's [Re: Magash]
#283039 - 09/19/09 08:38 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
Kapt I don't know if you have access to clones but if you do ditch the auto flower strains. Get some cuttings and flower them a few days after bringing them home. They should be around 6 inches tall or so. Flower them right away and wala
Is that your Sweet 16?
Clones are not an opition for me.
The auto flower has been the best high I have grown, even with ph problems.
Will try an outdoor grow later. I like how they only get 2 foot tall.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: CFL's [Re: KaptKid]
#283042 - 09/19/09 08:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nah, it wasn't Sweet 16. Would have been more cola looking with the Sweet 16. That was Mikado.
Quote:
Clones are not an opition for me.
Got ya.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
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